Hexagram 62 Unchanging

[Liselle]

My past experience with medical services involving my wife's health care was less than confidence building.

Yes, I know you've said you've had some bad experiences.

Prior to this, I'd discussed with friends and neighbors the severity of bark scorpion stings and their feed back was, some pain and discomfort but no big deal. The media blows everything so out of proportion concerning these things. [...] But I think scorpion stings, even the venomous bark scorpion, is like a bee sting...the effects were nearly entirely local, at the points of the stings.

In two days...it was business as usual.

I haven't re-read the original thread today (don't want to, would give me nightmares), but I thought I remembered you saying you had some lingering neurological effects? That you continued to have problems with your arms and fingers? Maybe I'm remembering wrong - in any event, I'm very relieved to know it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought. I've thought about that thread and that story quite often since first reading it - have been horrified, and seriously worried! And puzzled about the hex 62 reading - but now I think I understand better. (Well...I guess it sort of UNpins the meaning a bit from what I'd thought, rather than making it more clear, but that's still information.)

May I ask - if you'd gone to the hospital, what would they have done for you? I don't actually know. My assumption had been that they would have given you an antivenin, like for snakebite, and that is what you decided to pass up. But maybe not? Would they just have given you a glorified Benadryl and/or supportive care?

 

[sooo]

Yes, I know you've said you've had some bad experiences.





I haven't re-read the original thread today (don't want to, would give me nightmares), but I thought I remembered you saying you had some lingering neurological effects? That you continued to have problems with your arms and fingers? Maybe I'm remembering wrong - in any event, I'm very relieved to know it wasn't nearly as bad as I thought. I've thought about that thread and that story quite often since first reading it - have been horrified, and seriously worried! And puzzled about the hex 62 reading - but now I think I understand better. (Well...I guess it sort of UNpins the meaning a bit from what I'd thought, rather than making it more clear, but that's still information.)

May I ask - if you'd gone to the hospital, what would they have done for you? I don't actually know. My assumption had been that they would have given you an antivenin, like for snakebite, and that is what you decided to pass up. But maybe not? Would they just have given you a glorified Benadryl and/or supportive care?

I don't rightly know, Lisa, I but I suspect you are correct. I've not heard of a definitive bark scorpion anti-venom and my guess is as you've described: a little hand holding, some Benadryle, with a prescription name and cost to match.

There were some mild heart palpitations, and was already on a heart stabilizing med to treat congestive heart failure. Frankly, I'd experienced greatly more severe of these types of symptoms from smoking cigarettes before quitting. I won't lie, it was a shocking and disconcerting experience, but I believe my actions were what Yi was advising, in spite of the creepiness and odd sensations experienced.

It seems that these critters are concentrated in that particular area of Golden Valley, as I've rarely heard of such invasions experienced elsewhere in this valley. Interestingly, it was at the foot of a mountain, which fits the trigram image of 62, mountain beneath thunder. Out here in the flats the threats are mainly just rattle snakes, and unless they're Mohave greens, they generally want nothing to do with humans. Mohave Greens are an aggressive and dangerous hybrid which carry neuro-toxins and regular rattlesnake venom in one nasty bite. I shot one that was poised to strike a friend in his front yard, and sent the rattle to LiSe as a souvenir. They will actually come after you, unlike their more evasive cousins. Another friend used to hunt them on his ranch, until he was sprayed in his eyes with their toxic venom and was rushed to the hospital for treatment. It just comes with the territory. I still view humans as being far more dangerous. I've never met an intoxicated scorpion barreling down the highway in a two ton piece of iron and glass, and statistics will bear out the higher morality rate of car accidents. 62 can certainly apply there as well.

I think every hexagram has more far reaching possibilities that we tend to credit them with, 62 being a good example.

 

[pocossin]

I have heard that some link 62 with the transition of the soul.

Yes, the yang part of the soul ascends to heaven. The title of the hexagram 小過 may refer to the increasing smallness of a receding object.

 

[knotxx]

Sooo is the man in the story

Ah! I knew it must be SOMEONE around here from the way you guys were talking, but I didn't know who!

I thought he shook his head at himself because he asked Yi what it was and Yi said 'it's a low flying bird' so Yi was being very literal and Bruce didn't realise that until later. That's how I saw it.

Ohhhhh, I see, I didn't understand that. Thank you, trojan and sorry, Bruce. Yes, I agree, yi can be hilariously literal. But I also agree (if I am now understanding you correctly) that an answer can be quite literal and also unfold or blossom open in rich ways. Sounds like that's what the bird 62 was for you.

(ps I also recall the scorpion thread with shivers)

 

[sooo]

here is the thread http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?8357-62-and-bad-luck

if you prefer the thread not be linked to tell me and I will delete Bruce.

Not at all. So many interesting posts made in that thread from different perspectives. Thanks for the sleuth work.

 

[Trojina]

Looking at Hilary's latest Blog post on shadow hexagrams here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...revisited-(from-the-blog)&p=188081#post188081 I figured the shadow hexagram of 62 is hexagram 3.

If I have it right the shadow hexagram, an idea of Karcher's , indicates the approach that really wouldn't work and/or can represent the opposing forces in the situation you ask about, that which you must contend with.

I'm wondering what ways, if this idea holds any water, hexagram 3 can be the thing not to do when you get 62 ? The advice in 3 is to not try to complete things but explore and get helpers, things are still forming and all seems chaotic. So in a 62 situation, when you have 62 as an answer, you must not use the advice of 3, and or the very problem you encounter is of a 3ish nature.

I'm just seeing if 3 as the shadow throws any light on 62 (no pun intended)

 

[Liselle]

Would a possible example have to be a hex 3 unchanging hexagram?

 

[Trojina]

You lost me ? Do you mean look at 3uc expereinces and see how 62 was the shadow ?

 

[Trojina]

Would a possible example have to be a hex 3 unchanging hexagram?

I just meant how might the advice of 3 be the shadow of the advice of 62.

Eeeerm off the top of my head , well in 3 all is as yet unformed, there are many potentials and so on.

In 62 it is not time to act as if there were many potential to be explored, it's not a time to gather information (hmm yes but it might be surely) not a time to gather intelliegences...why ? because you already have it in your tiny bird claw...you already have the message, you know what you are doing it's just delivering the message, carrying the action through, that is the problem.

Hence if we take Sooo's scorpion example it may say this wasn't a time to explore various remedies over the internet, spend time gathering information and so on. he knew whatg to do he just had to be bloody careful while he was doing it.

The reason this idea of the shadow hexagram may not hold here is he did actually need to call on his neighbours and get information from them.

Maybe Karcher is on the wrong track with this idea of shadow hexagrams ? I'm not sure. I just wanted to test it out on this 62uc thread.

FWIW I think 62 is might mysterious hexagram. I used to think it humdrum but not anymore.

 

[sooo]

Looking at Hilary's latest Blog post on shadow hexagrams here http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...revisited-(from-the-blog)&p=188081#post188081 I figured the shadow hexagram of 62 is hexagram 3.

If I have it right the shadow hexagram, an idea of Karcher's , indicates the approach that really wouldn't work and/or can represent the opposing forces in the situation you ask about, that which you must contend with.

I'm wondering what ways, if this idea holds any water, hexagram 3 can be the thing not to do when you get 62 ? The advice in 3 is to not try to complete things but explore and get helpers, things are still forming and all seems chaotic. So in a 62 situation, when you have 62 as an answer, you must not use the advice of 3, and or the very problem you encounter is of a 3ish nature.

I'm just seeing if 3 as the shadow throws any light on 62 (no pun intended)

Did you arrive at 3 as shadow of 62 via a method or just using your intuition and reasoning? I've never grasped these shadows and nuclear hex and trigram very well. Always seem gray to me. However, assuming 3 is a shadow and reflects what not to do, it seems I did just that, and it was also your own observation in the original thread of scorpions. I did not seek helpers, beyond making that inquiry to speak with a nurse, and Yi's advice was repeatedly to lay low, make no spectacle now, and that was in accord with my own instincts as well. I'm not the kind of dog that likes being petted and pampered when sick. I'm more inclined to go off into the woods and hunker down beneath some cover, and wait it out until I feel better. While I'm sure that most medically trained people would be opposed to this, it is my instinct nonetheless, and it's what I've always tended to do. So, no helpers, other than an allergy over the counter pill, and some rest, and sweat it out quietly. I'm sure many a fox have gone to their end this way, but far more have recovered to join their pack when the temporary crisis passed. So in a vague way, I can see this as applicable. Though it was a difficult beginning, which is where my haziness of these "side road" methods enter.

 

[Liselle]

You lost me ? Do you mean look at 3uc expereinces and see how 62 was the shadow ?

Um...how to explain. I might be thinking wrong about this entire thing. Trying to fit in these sorts of other hexagrams really just makes my head explode.

You asked if hex 3 as the shadow could shed light on hex 62. I recently got a 3.1.2.5>7 reading, which is why I asked if examples of this really should be unchanging; does it matter if there are moving lines.

The situation was a VERY SILLY ONE (you may laugh) of me having dropped my electric toothbrush on the floor, and then it didn't spin properly. So I bought a new one, exactly the same model, but when I tried to use it, it didn't seem to spin properly either. I was very upset - now I had no working toothbrushes and no idea how to fix the problem, if brand new ones didn't work either. (I do realize there are non-electric toothbrushes, etc., but in my mind that was completely beside the point; all I could see was that in the space of 30 minutes I had become hopelessly toothbrushless.)

Asked Yi, essentially, OMG THE NEW TOOTHBRUSH DOESN'T WORK WHAT TO DO??? Got 3.1.2.5>7, which was of some comfort.

The weird thing - and the point of this - is that the next day when I tried the new toothbrush again, it worked just fine, and I've been happy with it ever since.

I vaguely think I've noticed this before with hex 3, that something I think is terribly wrong turns out not to be wrong after all. "Difficulty at the Beginning," which sorts itself out.

Could it be the Shadow of 62 in that getting terribly upset about something in the beginning, which later turns out was never a problem, is the wrong way to "Lie Low" (hex 62)?

So, if you get hex 62, the exact wrong early response is to make it all chaotic, looking for and finding all kinds of problems and growing pains?

[Saw your new posts when I previewed this...Trojina, I think my example and what you're saying do seem to fit together. And Sooo, yes, exactly, you did NOT respond to your hex 62 situation in this hex 3 way[sup]*[/sup]. Maybe this all meshes?]




[sup]*[/sup] [Edited to add] Meaning, as you said, that you did not fall prey to the Shadow hexagram.

 

[Liselle]

Did you arrive at 3 as shadow of 62 via a method

Hilary explains (here is another, earlier, blog post) that this is an idea of Stephen Karcher's:

"One of his most recent suggestions is the idea of a ‘shadow’ hexagram. You find this in a nice, simple way, by counting backwards through the Sequence of hexagrams. So Hexagram 1′s shadow is 64, 2′s shadow is 63, and so on. I suppose you could say you are ‘pairing’ the whole Sequence with itself by inverting it in this way. Stephen explains how he uses this, in conjunction with the ‘Ideal’ hexagram, in this essay (pdf link, right-click to download)"​

 

[Trojina]

So, if you get hex 62, the exact wrong early response is to make it all chaotic, looking for and finding all kinds of problems and growing pains?

[Saw your new posts when I previewed this...Trojina, I think my example and what you're saying do seem to fit together. And Sooo, yes, exactly, you did NOT respond to your hex 62 situation in this hex 3 way*. Maybe this all meshes?]

Yes it seems to mesh. But would have to experiment with my own readings for some time to see if this theory of Karcher's really holds or is useful.

 

[Trojina]

Did you arrive at 3 as shadow of 62 via a method or just using your intuition and reasoning?

No, as Lisa says above, it's an idea of Karcher's Hilary has written about. A very simple idea

The shadow of 1 is 64
the shadow of 2 is 63
the shadow of 3 is 62
the shadow of 4 is 61

and so it goes and vice versa

Anyway, yes 3 may have indicated lots of outward exploration and busyness looking for helpers which as you say you didn''t do You did look for helpers in your neighbours though so I wasn't sure about how well the theory holds in this case.

 

[sooo]

No, as Lisa says above, it's an idea of Karcher's Hilary has written about. A very simple idea

The shadow of 1 is 64
the shadow of 2 is 63
the shadow of 3 is 62
the shadow of 4 is 61

and so it goes and vice versa

Anyway, yes 3 may have indicated lots of outward exploration and busyness looking for helpers which as you say you didn''t do You did look for helpers in your neighbours though so I wasn't sure about how well the theory holds in this case.

Aaahh, now I understand. Thanks.

The conversations with neighbors occurred after and also before this particular incident but after earlier incidents. My next door neighbor got zapped between his fingers while seating himself at a picnic table, the bugger was between two of the table top boards, and got stung when he placed his hand over it. I asked, what was the effect? He answered, other than stinging like hell awhile, absolutely nothing. Fwiw, the reason they're called bark scorpions is that they often hide under the bark of trees; they're the only ones known to climb, though I have seen others climb rough surfaces like brick or stucco walls but they can't move about easily as can the bark variety. Most people who don't even know what they're called just say, the small ones with the thin tails are the ones you have to be careful of. As with the literal bird, I also had to laugh at the literalness of preponderance of the small.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona_bark_scorpion

 

[Liselle]

But would have to experiment with my own readings for some time to see if this theory of Karcher's really holds or is useful.

The thing I don't understand about sequence-based things is something you said before - there are certain pairs that seem to unavoidably go together (1 and 2, 63 and 64), but it also seems as if stories could be told to plausibly link any two hexagrams together.

We just tried to figure out how 3 is the shadow of 62...it seems reasonable...but we could probably also convince ourselves that 51 is the the shadow of 62. Etc.

 

[Trojina]

The thing I don't understand about sequence-based things is something you said before - there are certain pairs that seem to unavoidably go together (1 and 2, 63 and 64), but it also seems as if stories could be told to plausibly link any two hexagrams together.

We just tried to figure out how 3 is the shadow of 62...it seems reasonable...but we could probably also convince ourselves that 51 is the the shadow of 62. Etc.

Agreed. But these are just Karcher's ideas to play with and see what happens. Also there is always an actual pattern behind these like with complements/opposites.

If the shadow hexagrams were drawn in some kind of diagram wouldn't it look like you had thrown a stone in a pond. making a wide circular ripple. The widest ripple would be 1 and 64 and the middle of the ripple, the smallest circle, would be 32 and 33.

 

[Liselle]

If the shadow hexagrams were drawn in some kind of diagram wouldn't it look like you had thrown a stone in a pond. making a wide circular ripple. The widest ripple would be 1 and 64 and the middle of the ripple, the smallest circle, would be 32 and 33.

That's a fantastic metaphor. You come up with really nice imagery.

 

[Trojina]

I think Hilary said that first somewhere or other. What I have got is a good memory so I can remember clever things other people have said and use them myself

 

[Liselle]

Ha ha! Who has a better memory, crabs (Cancers) or elephants? (I think it is sad that elephants are unrepresented in the zodiac.)