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Hexagrams compared to astrology planets

pagan

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Hi Everyone, I modified Martin's table of correspondences from IC Trigram to Astrological planet to meet my own criteria, and then made a list each hexagram's resulting correspondence to planets. Blows me away. Sun and Neptune are not used in this list.

111/Heaven/Uranus
000/Earth/Pluto
010/water/Moon
011/wind/Mercury
110/lake/Venus
001/mountain/Saturn
100/thunder/Jupiter
101/fire/Mars

Hexagrams:

Hex 1: Uranus/Uranus
Hex 2: Pluto/Pluto
Hex 3: Moon/Jupiter
Hex 4: Saturn/Moon
Hex 5: Moon/Uranus
Hex 6: Uranus/Moon
Hex 7: Pluto/Moon
Hex 8: Moon/Pluto
Hex 9: Mercury/Uranus
Hex 10: Uranus/Venus
Hex 11: Pluto/Uranus
Hex 12: Uranus/Pluto
Hex 13: Uranus/Mars
Hex 14: Mars/Uranus
Hex 15: Pluto/Saturn
Hex 16: Jupiter/Pluto
Hex 17: Venus/Jupiter
Hex 18: Saturn/Mercury
Hex 19: Pluto/Venus
Hex 20: Mercury/Pluto
Hex 21: Mars/Jupiter
Hex 22: Saturn/Mars
Hex 23: Saturn/Pluto
Hex 24: Pluto/Jupiter
Hex 25: Uranus/Jupiter
Hex 26: Saturn/Uranus
Hex 27: Saturn/Jupiter
Hex 28: Venus/Mercury
Hex 29: Moon/Moon
Hex 30: Mars/Mars
Hex 31: Venus/Saturn
Hex 32: Jupiter/Mercury
Hex 33: Uranus/Saturn
Hex 34: Jupiter/Uranus
Hex 35: Mars/Pluto
Hex 36: Pluto/Mars
Hex 37: Mercury/Mars
Hex 38: Mars/Venus
Hex 39: Moon/Saturn
Hex 40: Jupiter/Moon
Hex 41: Saturn/Venus
Hex 42: Mercury/Jupiter
Hex 43: Venus/Uranus
Hex 44: Uranus/Mercury
Hex 45: Venus/Pluto
Hex 46: Pluto/Mercury
Hex 47: Venus/Moon
Hex 48: Moon/Mercury
Hex 49: Venus/Mars
Hex 50: Mars/Mercury
Hex 51: Jupiter/Jupiter
Hex 52: Saturn/Saturn
Hex 53: Mercury/Saturn
Hex 54: Jupiter/Venus
Hex 55: Jupiter/Mars
Hex 56: Mars/Saturn
Hex 57: Mercury/Mercury
Hex 58: Venus/Venus
Hex 59: Mercury/Moon
Hex 60: Moon/Venus
Hex 61: Mercury/Venus
Hex 62: Jupiter/Saturn
Hex 63: Moon/Mars
Hex 64: Mars/Moon
 

pagan

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I decided to ask the IC if I should post this model of IC to astrology comparison. The answer I got was 27 line 4 (which changes to 21). If you read Wilhelm, it says:

"Turning to the summit
For provision of nourishment
Brings good fortune.
Spying about with sharp eyes
Like a tiger with insatiable craving.
No blame."
and the commentary states:
"In contrast to the six in the second place, which refers to a man bent exclusively on his own advantage, this line refers to one occupying a high position and striving to let his light shine forth. To do this he needs helpers, because he cannot attain his lofty aim alone. With the greed of a hungry tiger he is on the lookout for the right people. Since he is not working for himself but for the good of all, there is no wrong in such zeal."

Now this seems to hit the nail on the head in terms of a direct answer to my question. But, as I have whined about before, what does 21 have to do with any of it?
 

martin

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Perhaps 21 reflects that the fit in such models is not perfect. One has to use 'violent means' to make it fit, at least if one is a perfectionist. I have some problems with my teeth at the moment, so I would prefer to use a hammer.


Interesting by the way, that you swapped 100 and 101 compared to what I did and these are the trigrams of hex 21. Synchronicity? Or does 21 indicate that we will need lawyers to get this straight?


I'm still experimenting with how to read a hexagram as two planets. One thing I tried is: base trigram = planet, upper trigram = natural house of planet. For example 33 = saturn in house 11 (natural house of uranus).
 

bradford_h

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Pagan & Martin-
Lower and upper trigrams (called Zhen and Hui Gua) have slightly different meanings. The lower tends to be more subjective.
You might explore making a syntax out of this, as in subject and predicate. I too wound up giving the lower to the planet (in most cases). The upper was often an element or suit.
For sixteen of the Gua I just used Crowley's convolution of the 4 elements.
You guys might also take note that there are 78 graphic symbols in the Yijing (64+8+4+2)
 

martin

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Yes, subject-predicate is a good idea, similar to planet-house. In 61 venus 'mercuries' and then you can play with such (free) translations as 'love talks' or 'the thinking of love'.
Or 'sayings of a beauty queen', if you like.


In some cases an astrological interpretation doesn't seem to make sense at first. For example 44 = mercury + uranus. Mercury in 11? Mercury 'goes uranus'?
The lower mind (mercury) 'goes uranus': gets into subtle intuitive ideas. It's really not suited for that, it cannot figure it out. No way. So it probably goes astray. It goes crackpot.

Okay, let's do it, let's go crackpot.
Lie down on the Freudian couch and enter free association mode. Here we go. The lower mind is fascinated .. tempted by .. higher knowledge .. tree of knowledge .. adam .. snake .. apple .. Eve .. Eve! .. the woman is bold and strong! .. It will not be good to marry such a female! .. don't eat that apple!

Too late!
 

bradford_h

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Just a funny thing about my own 44.
I give it to Mercury (011) in Air (111),
Hod in Yetzirah and the Eight of Swords.
Check out the Waite deck's Eight of Swords relative to keeping the powerful young woman (Zhuang Nu) in check.
 

pagan

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The way that I have been looking at these combinations posted above is the top hexagram navigates the outer world and the lower hexagram navigates the inner world.

Some examples:

Hex 3: Moon/Jupiter
Moon is vulnerable, Jupiter is expansion. This is something beneath expanding up into a vulnerable situation.

Hex 4: Saturn/Moon
Here the vulnerable soul must seek and is protected by the stern father Saturn, teacher, sage. "It is not I that seeks the young fool..."

Hex 5: Moon/Uranus
This is some unexpected events hidden within that meet danger/vulnerability in the outer world.

Note: In astrology, the moon is your most vulnerable point and it is the planet that shows family bonding and unconditional love/dependency.
It is also kooky fun and great imagination and emotional variety but the IC seems to focus on the danger of deception and vulnerability that water/moon indicate.

Hex 25 is often associated with the unexpected, so I was really relieved to see Uranus, the planet of unexpected events, over Jupiter, the desire to expand out.

I like hexagram 38 with mars on top of venus, gives you a different POV. And hexagram 39 with the moon over saturn really adds a deeper meaning to obstruction to me.

In hex 44, uranus outside paired with mercury inside, I can sure see that as an irresistable affair.

Certain hexagrams really take on a different flavor with this model. For example, think of double jupiter (hexagram 51) and from an astrological point of view this is great abundance and expansion and benefit. Not the normal IC interpretation of shocking events.

Pluto rules matter, mass. And venus is attachment to people. And I liked it that hexagram 45 has Venus over Pluto.

Saturn doubled is 52 and that makes sense as saturn is the deep thinker, meditator, bent on endurance and the goat climbing the mountain.

THe one that confounded me was hexagram 60--I would have expected to see saturn there and instead it is Moon over Venus. So here temptation within (venus below) threatens one's outer world (moon above). After thinking it out, I can see the intense NEED for disciplne here--not how I normally viewed 60.

Mars over the moon is interesting as Hex 64. With a vulnerable fool within being led by the rowdy mars, anything can happen.

I don't think I'll ever get bored of these. The planets have such personality, where the hexagrams are so situational rather than animated. This gives me a whole different view of the character of each hexagram.

Thank you Martin for sharing this model.
P.
 

martin

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'Eight of Swords' or 'What happens to powerful young women when Brad is around':



 

martin

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Glad you enjoy it, Pagan. The differences are interesting. Hex 40, for example, is Jupiter over Moon for you, Mars over Moon for me and I see on his site that Brad associates it with the ninth house and Sagittarius (and the Tarot card Temperance).
Different artists, different paintings.
 

bradford_h

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The Sagittarius in my system is derived from Mutable (010) Fire (100). I was, however, gratified to find three archery images in the texts (one is obscure), concerning release or delivery of the arrow.
 

pagan

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Jupiter over the moon, my god, that is totally like 40, deliverance. The moon is open, willing, vulnerable and Jupiter is 'going away'.

In astrology, the moon is your habits, good or bad. The moon is the pot that stores all our memories and experiences. It is the part of the brain that is most stubbornly protected from influences from the conscious mind and others. When Jupiter 'liberates' the moon of one of these unhealthy habits, voila hex 40.

If Uranus ran into Mercury at the cafe, they would both miss their next appointments, because they wouldn't be able to resist one another. That is what 44 is about.

Mercury is linking things. It is a troublemaker and a liar. It appears safe enough but look out, it can be a powerful demon in the end.

In another direction:

Pluto is certainly corpses and condensed concentrated matter. It is the ability to draw on the earth to manifest anything it wants. Look at hex 35. You have Mars on top able to draw upon an unlimited source-Pluto. That is going somewhere.

In hexagram 21, Jupiter, buried,has the truth and mars on top is going to liberate the truth by aggressively biting through.

I am telling you guys that this one works!! No trying about it. You have to liberate your bias before you can see its charm. "Best Fit" as Chris would say.
 

pagan

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I can't shut up about this. Look at hexagram 41, saturn is over venus--holding venus back. And in 42, Jupiter, abundance, is being spread around by mercury. Look at hexagram 18; Saturn over mercury. Mercury doesn't like to get down to routine and Saturn will sit on him to do it.

I don't get mars over uranus for 14. But in my own readings, 14 manifests as 'now you know' as Carol Anthony says, rather than oodles of money.
 

martin

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One of the things that is still on my long to do list is figuring out what inner hexagrams/trigrams can tell about astrology.
For example, the inner hex of 40 - Mars over Moon (see *) - is hex 63, which corresponds to Moon over Jupiter. This suggests that there is a hidden link between Mars + Moon and Jupiter.
If you reverse the trigrams (hex 3) the inner hex (23) suggests another link, between Mars + Moon and Neptune + Saturn.
Is this merely a fata morgana or is there really something in it?


(*) I have tried to look through Pagan's lens but I'm apparently too much in love
with my own, so I use that here. The difference is that I give 000 to Neptune, 101 to Jupiter and 100 to Mars.
The complete table that I posted earlier in another thread:

---------
Similarities between trigrams, Jungean types, planets in western astrology and Plato's ideas:


Intuition (Spirit, the Real)
000 extravert, Neptune
111 introvert, Uranus

Thinking (Mind, the True)
011 extravert, Mercury
001 introvert, Saturn

Feeling (Soul, the Good)
101 extravert, Jupiter
010 introvert, Moon

Sensation (Body, the Beautiful)
110 extravert, Venus
100 introvert, Mars


The Sun and Pluto represent the life force and don't correspond to trigrams.
----------

Note: introvert/extravert is used in the Jungean sense.
The introvert attitude abstracts from the object of perception while the extravert attitude seeks concrete experience.
For instance, Uranus links with abstract metaphysics and Neptune with 'concrete' inner experience, think of the mystic who seeks 'direct' experience of God.
 

pagan

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Hi Martin,

Sure, but I don't see any reason to use a term in a way that would confuse most people. Neptune is certainly seeking the direct experience of god on one hand, and escapism on the other. Uranus is certainly abstraction and metaphysics, but applied in a concrete way (invention) rather than just to be dangling concepts, which is how mercury behaves.
 

martin

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I agree Pagan, it is confusing. Especially because we are dealing with intuition here.
Saturn-Mercury and Moon-Jupiter are clearly introvert-extravert, I think. It's not so clear with Uranus-Neptune.

I added introvert/extravert because I wanted to bring out the similarities with Jung's typology. But I looked it up in his book about types tonight and it seems that he was less strict and precise in the way he used these words than I thought he was (it's a long time ago since I read that book).

So, perhaps it's better to use other words. Abstract-concrete is probably also confusing, sounds to much like intuition - sensation.
How to call it then? Just yang-yin?
 

martin

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Phew, he moves fast! From archetypes to jealous gods to possession in 15 minutes. This is at least Mach 3, I would say.
Or is there something wrong with my radar?

BBC NEWS, 9 april 2004:
"A Belgian motorist was left stunned after authorities sent him a speeding ticket for travelling in his Mini at three times the speed of sound.
The ticket claimed the man had been caught driving at 3380 kph (2,100 mph) - or Mach 3 speed - in a Brussels suburb, a Belgian newspaper reported.
However, police later admitted that a faulty radar had been responsible for the Mini's incredible feat.
The police have since apologised to the man and promised to fix the radar."

 

martin

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I would insert a few stop signs ("Hey, wait a minute!") but I like his idea that archetypes act as magnets.
 

pagan

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Archetypes act like magnets because they are the source well, and the mind is extremely attracted to more and more.

But more importantly, archetypes exist as the raw material of existence, the 'intelligence' that emanates out of chaos. When we learn to meditate and clear our mind of thoughts, we are afforded an opportunity to experience these fields. Many eastern yogis write about how attractive they are, and how some of the most adept yogis get trapped there, because it is fun to experiement with the powers that one obtains from soaking his mind in pure archetypes. These archetypes are experienced as Gods and Goddesses and the distraction can be too much for many spiritual seekers who 'go unto the gods instead of to me' as Krishna says to Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita.
 

martin

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Yes, I think it's typical that Jung, when he was in India, decided not to visit Ramana Maharshi, although he was nearby and probably had planned a visit.
Ramana points beyond the archetypical (and in general also beyond the 'subtle experiences' in which yogis tend to get lost), so Jung had a reason to stay away from him.
 

martin

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I believe, btw, that Jung's decision was wise, in a sense, because if he had met Ramana face to face (Self to Self) at that point in his life it would perhaps have meant the end of his research, which is valuable in its own right.

About distraction - there is also a lot of that in Taoism. All these 'masters' who hop around showing off their chi tricks, books about the Tao of getting laid, I mean, I'm not a purist and if people have fun with their toys it's okay with me but I suppose this is not exactly what Lao Tzu had in mind ..
 

pagan

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Tricks like being buried alive for some ungodly length of time and then springing right up when they are dug back up. It is pretty amazing what you can do when you become master of your own mind.

One of the reasons that I am adverse to using the IC as an oracle is because it is, to some degree, a sin to live outside of the here and now. Demanding that we see the future is arrogance at a certain level of spiritual evolution. When we believe in the guiding principle of love in this moment, REALLY KNOW IT from the heart, we know that the greatest force possible is at work manifesting the best possible reality for us right now. We should get on that horse and ride it. Once we do an oracle, we lay a limitation on all possibilities that exists before we do the oracle. Why do this?

I agree it is important to study the archetypes and I believe that the metaphysical systems are the best way to refine our intellect--which in turn helps to refine our nervous system, but it is important not to become trapped or limited by them.

If our perception is really in the drivers seat, then we should choose which hexagrams will help us create the structure for the future we want to create. We should be proactive with the ICHING.

I got out my old IC diaries and starting looking at the questions I asked last year and looking at the answers I got from the IC. I can't say that the IC did me any good at all in this way. There were so many options to how a message could be intepreted that it became a wash out.

But when I think about doing something, I always draw up in my head what I recall the IC saying about the subject, and I feel greatly benefited by its wisdom in that way.

Bottom line, I think we spend way too much trying to figure out the future, and never enough time developing love in the here and now. What a shame that we don't use our human powers to the greatest possible potential--expressing love.
 

omshante

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expressing love with courage is one of the most frightening processes of our time.people come to it with preconditioning and confusion hence the need for attachment to some form of objective advice from, say, horoscopes, tarot, i ching, 'psychics' etc. we do not live in sage society where we can approach an elder for wisdom or guidance freely. it is now profitable business and why not, we've bought into it, we want to know without first asking, 'what is it we need to know'. love in the 'tomb world' comes with many attachments and expectations. you have over simplified the understanding of 'real love'

if you approach the i ching from the heart it will address matters of the heart. it is only natural that some of the responses become predictive as the laws of nature cannot be tampered with, certain outcomes are guaranteed from certain actions, this is the wisdom of the i ching, it will not always tell you what you want to hear, it is there to guide and there are times we will say - pah! no use, no use at all - then find out it was right all along. before you can have love, you must have trust.

Pagan, do you have trust?



Omshante
 

pagan

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Hi Omshante,
Trust is something I am working on right now. I have been going through a real metamorphosis where I have shifted my center of gravity to cultivating love in the here and now, and allowing the intelligence that seems to saturate love to lead the way.

When I was a young lady I had cancer that was diagnosed terminal with 6 months to live. I had to seek alternative methods of healing, and in doing so, I really had to give it to God in a big way. Looking back, I miss the bond I felt with God at the time, and the total trust I had to put in God for my survival. I am now cancer free for 24 years.

I like how Carol Anthony talks about trusting in the unknown and not having to have all of the answers. It is kind of like I am playing chicken now with my belief. If I completely trust in God and do my spiritual practice, what will happen?

This is where "you see it when you believe it" and not the other way around. It is the final frontier of exploration. Trust, faith, surrender.
I really want that now.
 

brian

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love is the highest form of trust, trust is a vine with a root called wisdom, bearing a fruit called friendship, containing the seeds called peace.
 

martin

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The One: 'Only this: remember me. Nothing else is needed.'

Humans: 'Of course we will remember you .. but ..
err ..
when?
where?
why?
how?
what?
which?
ouch?
oops?!
crash!
....
heeeelp!!!'


Alien1: 'What is a human?'
Alien2: 'A human is a being that walks on two legs and has an uncanny ability to make even the most simple things incredibly complicated.'
 

pagan

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Alien 3: Humans are the parasites that infect the Goddess Earth which we have been sent to exterminate in order to save her. We'll take a few humans with us for our kids to play with, its such a long flight you know--way out here in the Galaxy-burbs.
 
J

jeanystar

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Pagan, I really do think that using the I Ching as a book of wisdom is wonderful.....but as an oracle, it is also wonderful, and personally, I am so grateful for its use in that way.
I have always maintained that its advice is Immediate... I dont think I use it in a way that would "limit" the way I look at a situation, but it can certainly define and elucidate the conditions which are present or unfolding.

For instance, for a pending job interview... I wouldnt ask weeks in advance, but maybe a few days, or day, before.."what do I need to know about this interview?" In this kind of situation, the YI is invaluable in my experience.
It might say: 25: be natural and innocent, dont try too hard.

OR if it advised 7.6 (for example), I would read it as advice to march forth strongly, be assertive, be ready to tackle the big questions, worry less about the small points, etc., etc.

The Yi's answers are pointed and, for me, are like the voice of my intuition and inner Knowing made strong and clear.

Personally, I take less seriously very GENERAL questions about major life issues, and eschew the concept of fortune telling and prediction.....but when going on a trip, or asking about some specific issue or circumstance I am facing, I really pay a lot of attention to what the YI says, and have even avoided certain potential actions when I have been advised to do so. After all this time, and after foolishly ignoring on occasion, I have learned to trust and deeply respect what the Yi says to me. as an oracle.

This doesnt in any way preclude trusting love or being in the present moment. In fact, being present to the moment and maintaining an intention of love actually puts one in sync with all that is transpiring in the dimension of time and space where we find ourselves. Every moment is like a rare diamond, glittering and perfect, and I can only see that the Yi is like a laser beam, elucidating that particular aspect, or aspects, of the kaleidoscope even as it changes into something else...the next diamond in the sequence (which the Yi can hint at, perhaps not always foretell!)

This image of the kaleidoscope reminds me of the way that thoughts changed the molecular structure of water in the movie "What the Bleep do we know?"
We do have an awful lot of influence on how things change and develop...the yi doesnt tell us anything "set in stone", it tells us what the current influences are.

all the best to you and your current healing situation, J
 

pagan

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Hi J.
Its not that you can't benefit immensely by using the IC. You might hear from the IC the very thing you need to make a situation go better. You might avoid an otherwise dangerous situation. And if that comes with no negative side effect then the IC is a great tool, you should use it.

The negative side effect for me is that I lose my instincts for life using the IC. My body forgets how to 'know' something like an animal does. My senses are dulled and I take bias into something that needs not to be entered into with the mind in the first place.

The IC, when I use it as an oracle, keeps me in my head. I forget to just live. And I love the mystery of the unknown.

The IC has given me some pretty nifty tools to deal with whatever comes. If I am in danger, I wait to be lifted out of it. If I am on a cracking limb, I get the hell off it real fast.

Using the IC as an oracle has one really marvelous side affect: you learn it more deeply and more completely because you apply it to your life. You can compare your IC answers to your life events, and measure the accuracy of the IC. That also hones your mind, sharpens your wit.

Lots of good reasons to use the IC as an oracle, I just personally don't do it anymore.
P.
 

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