I ching Addiction

[lalafree]

Hello dear people,

you will excuse me if I'm posting this in the wrong place or if this is out of context, but I need to do this!

I think I have been addicted to the YChing. For a while a really stressful and frustrated situation have been part of my life, and I have abused of the Yching for understanding.

I can't even tell you if the Yching consultations were the right or wrong answers because now I realize that I never give them the time to happen or to really think about it. I have always asked another thousand of question right after. So totally wrong approach, wrong attitude.

It is unbelievable how sometime we can be so lost to spend hours of our time by consulting a book looking for answers, hope, predictions, solutions... or sometime..just because we need to talk to somebody.
Don't get me wrong, I do believe the Yching is an amazing tool, a wise friend, a source of knowledge and wiseness, but if used in the right way and with the right approach.! it wasn't mine!

I let myself be influenced by it, changing my mood, making assumptions to the point to get even more lost about the situation. But never really listening to it!
So the sad part is that up to now after asked thousands of questions, I have no idea about the answers.
One day the answers were positive the other day negative.. .
What really scared me at one point it was how my mood and my day was influenced by the answer the Yching was giving me. Every day something different, opposite and contradictory even if it was the same issue or the same question. I lost truth and the reality of the situation.

It is already difficult to look at reality for what it is, mostly when we don't like it and to postpone that moment of taking responsibilities it was so wrong for me!! Consulting the yching, for me, was in fact a way to avoid reality, building up illusions, looking for a way to change things... but sometimes you just can't. I'm sure he gave me this answer at some point!

I needed to say that! I know you all people can understand. Not everyone knows what the Yching is, and go to someone saying "I'm addicted to an oracle"... is not something you wanna tell!

I'm now ready to take that responsibility, because i feel it and not because I read it!..
which make the big difference!

Take my coming out for what it is... the experience of someone who got dragged by her own ego, to try to look for a different reality... instead of accepting it.
We can loose, we can have our heart broken, we can feel pain, but the big lesson is that the soon we accept it..the soon we can move on and the soon the good part of it can bloom.

Hope this is just me... and none else is waisting precious time to try to avoid reality!!

Thank you for listening to me!!

With all my respect to you!

Love

 

[diamanda]

Hi larouge,

I've definitely 'been there', and I know many people who have also been there too.
In times of great pain and turmoil, it's normal to frantically look for a solution and/or escape.

Well, much better to cast the i ching a hundred times, than, for example, turn to alcohol.
A benefit of casting like a maniac is that you involuntarily learn the i ching faster!
Learning to interpret an oracle is a majorly helpful tool for life.

So don't be so harsh on yourself! Perhaps you didn't waste your time after all
And I hope the nasty situation you went through is over now.

 

[Pearlescent]

wow I almost made this exact post myself before, larouge. I think I never did because I was ashamed, I knew the way I was using the Yi was unhealthy. And I had seen on the forum before some of the members chastising newer users of the iching for asking too many questions, or asking in a way they felt wasn't respectful. I once heard that asking a question to the Yi can be like drawing blood, too many questions and you become extremely drained and disoriented. I know how it feels to be elated at a 'good' cast and how it feels to be quite the opposite when you receive a perceived 'negative' cast. I can also relate to having asked so many questions that I couldn't even remember a single answer. I've definitely been there, and I'm sure I've had a friend or family member concerned for how reliant I was on an ancient chinese oracle. lol

But because of this I've kind of gone around in a full circle and realized that whats going to happen will happen, and the fact is theres always the chance I may not even understand an answer the oracle would give me correctly to begin with, so there will always be the element of the unpredictable. Learning to let go is kind of an art form. I don't think there's anything to be ashamed about as long as you or I recognize that we're only making things worse for ourselves by 'thrashing about' so to speak. If later, in a more calm frame of mind we do some soul searching in order to approach the oracle with more respect, we might find the answers much more clear. And if the iching really is able to see past and future and everything in between, I think it knows we're doing the best with what we can and is hardly offended or disgusted with us, I think it knows full well we're going through a learning process. And because of this I've learned to respect the Yi not just because it is divine or because I just 'should', but because in respecting the oracle I am respecting myself, and the unfoldment of my own life. So I hear you, and I'm glad you were brave enough to post about this and I hope things have gotten better for you!

 

[taoscopy]

Yes, I've been through this too. There are a few things to know when you consult the I Ching.

First, it is that the I Ching is considered to be sacred by many. There are people who burn incense before consulting. You are not asked to perform such rituals but the least you can do is to show some respect and pay attention to the answers given to you. The Yi is not a toy and if you play with the Yi then the Yi will play with you.

Second is never ever ask "What does X think of me?" The reason is that soon or later asking such questions will break your relationship with X.

If you want to show the Yi to your friends, do it but tell them about these two rules first.

 

[diamanda]

never ever ask "What does X think of me?" The reason is that soon or later asking such questions will break your relationship with X.

This "rule" is arbitrary and not written anywhere in the ancient texts.
The "reason" for this is also arbitrary and subjective.
I have asked such questions many times and I received great insights and results.

 

[taoscopy]

This "rule" is arbitrary and not written anywhere in the ancient texts.
The "reason" for this is also arbitrary and subjective.
I have asked such questions many times and I received great insights and results.

I'm not questioning that you have received great insights but you've never been told what the other was thinking of you: you've been given great advices instead. The Yi is benevolent and is not going to slaughter all your relationships because of that. Specially since you didn't know that rule.

However if you insist on questioning that way after some time you will stop receiving insights and you will receive warnings instead. If you ignore the warnings then you will be separated from that person, for example the Yi will tell you 33 or 12 repeatedly and you will give up the relationship.

Now if you tell me that you are asking the Yi "What does X think of me" every morning since 10 years and X is still amongst your friends then I would be surprised.

ETA:
It's a problem of trust, don't try to overcome your lack of trust in others by asking the Yi what they think of you, but rather ask the Yi how you can build trust.

Would you trust someone who is trying to read your mind?

I invite you to meditate on the end of TTC Chapter 23:

Those who do not trust sufficiently, others have no trust in them

 

[diamanda]

but you've never been told what the other was thinking of you

And how do you know that...?

Actually I was told exactly what the other person was thinking of me.
Which, the person in question (my current long-term partner) confirmed himself, when a misunderstanding got resolved back in the old days (just one of many examples).

Now if you tell me that you are asking the Yi "What does X think of me" every morning since 10 years and X is still amongst your friends then I would be surprised.

If I did that then I would be a lunatic and I would have no friends.
Obviously this is not what we are talking about here.

Of course you are entitled to your own opinions taoscopy, but it's bizarre (to put it mildly) to present them as a solid "rule".

 

[rosada]

The only "rule" I know of for consulting the I Ching is the one given in hexagram 4, which says in effect, "Don't ask the same question twice."

As far as getting meaningful answers when asking what others are thinking, I find it depends on the reader. Some of us have a knack for certain types of questions. That is, some people can use the I Ching to find lost objects or to predict exact dates while others only get gobbledy gook answers to such questions but are spot on for using the IC to interpret dreams or for asking how others feel. Some people can even make sense out of yes-or-no questions! So I think you just have to find your own groove.

btw, I use the I Ching to channel my deceased husband and recently asked "him" how did he really feel about us there at the end. I received 35uc, the hexagram about having received a wonderful gift with perhaps a touch of sadness because being unchanging there was a sense on not being able to experience the full potential. Best I Ching reading ever - for me anyway!

rosada

 

[taoscopy]

OK, I disagree with both of you.

diamanda your answer is very problematic because you have ignored my arguments and asserted that the Yi, at the contrary, told you what your boyfriend was thinking of you. So you have switched from the moral ground to the simple fact that the Yi told you.

I've told you it was impossible and you've told me the contrary. Fine. I accept that. I hope that you understand that reading other people's mind is immoral, it's like if someone was watching you naked or looking into your bag. I can imagine that in this case with your boyfriend the Yi has considered that making an exception was worth it, so you've been entrusted with that information, but don't try to push your meager advantage further because that would tell extremely embarrassing things about you.

The Yi is a spiritual teacher so if you are really entrusted with such information on a regular basis as you seem to say, then it would raise the question why does the Yi encourage such an immoral behavior? So, I'm not sure that I want to continue the debate along that line. It's only ground for embarrassment.

However if you want a few pointers:

44.2: One shows behind the scenes only to those who ask and are invited.
52.1: One does not go to see what others are doing, to avoid troubles.
6.6: If one forces through then they will have to forego their tranquillity.
35.6: When others don't like it, one refrains.

The only "rule" I know of for consulting the I Ching is the one given in hexagram 4, which says in effect, "throughly understand the first answer before asking a second question."

rosada, here is what the Yi gave me for hexagram 4:

Give references to the student who asks oneself questions, but delay before answering to the foolish questions. That way the student will trust their judgment.

There is not one rule there are 64 + 64x6 rules, when you know them then it's a good start but you still need to learn about the combinations.

 

[pocossin]

I think I have been addicted to the YChing. For a while a really stressful and frustrated situation have been part of my life, and I have abused of the Yching for understanding.

In my opinion, you have never been addicted to the Yi. You have been addicted to the activity of casting, just as crap shooters become addicted to throwing dice and roulette and slot machine players become addicted to spinning wheels. Haven't your hands itched when they did not contain coins? I am not addicted to casting, but am obsessed with the Yi as a sign system and think that it is the best of all that exist. An old classmate asked me how I could waste my life on such garbage, he not having any idea of how it works. Ironically, because he has wasted his life on wine, women, and song, he now has nothing to show for having lived as a human being.

 

[rosada]

Jeez Tom, you say that like it's a bad thing...

 

[sooo]

I'd guess about 80% of my use of the IC, which I inquire often, is for intelligent conversation and the reliable and objective input it offers. A good portion of that conversation occurs in my head after receiving the reading. Even the reading itself seems to come from my own head, kind of like 19.2, which returns me to my true self. The remaining 20% is split between material decisions and silly nonsense based on my own insecurities.

 

[pocossin]

Jeez Tom, you say that like it's a bad thing...

What is bad is what lessens human life -- an anthropocentric position for which I may be criticized. Addictive casting is such an evil, as Larouge correctly identifies it. It lead to shallow, mechanical interpretation. Hey! You got 41? You are going to lose money. You got 42? You are in the money. The late Mary Halpin's interpretations were no more sophisticated in spite of her law degree and her extensive experience of life. Compulsive and obsessive casting is excused at Clarity as "conversation with the Yi." When I hear "conversation with the Yi", I reach for my intellectual revolver. Surely you know how people have had their lives lessened or have been destroyed by compulsive and obsessive casting? I'd much prefer that my fellow human being did well but know for sure that many will not. "Man is born to suffering as the sparks fly upward. (Job 5:7)"

 

[sooo]

Yes, I've been through this too. There are a few things to know when you consult the I Ching.

First, it is that the I Ching is considered to be sacred by many. There are people who burn incense before consulting. You are not asked to perform such rituals but the least you can do is to show some respect and pay attention to the answers given to you. The Yi is not a toy and if you play with the Yi then the Yi will play with you.

Second is never ever ask "What does X think of me?" The reason is that soon or later asking such questions will break your relationship with X.

Every so often an expert passes through this forum, extolling its rules like the Ten Commandments of God. The only rule I've adopted over the decades regarding the Yi is to never say never.

 

[pocossin]

Every so often an expert passes through this forum, extolling its rules like the Ten Commandments of God.

If you had any idea of the depth and adequacy of the Ten Commandments, you would not have said this.

 

[taoscopy]

every so often an expert passes through this forum, extolling its rules like the ten commandments of god. The only rule i've adopted over the decades regarding the yi is to never say never.

higher people hear of the tao
they diligently practice it
average people hear of the tao
they sometimes keep it and sometimes lose it
lower people hear of the tao
they laugh loudly at it
if they do not laugh, it would not be the tao

ttc 41

 

[sooo]

What is bad is what lessens human life -- an anthropocentric position for which I may be criticized. Addictive casting is such an evil, as Larouge correctly identifies it. It lead to shallow, mechanical interpretation. Hey! You got 41? You are going to lose money. You got 42? You are in the money. The late Mary Halpin's interpretations were no more sophisticated in spite of her law degree and her extensive experience of life. Compulsive and obsessive casting is excused at Clarity as "conversation with the Yi." When I hear "conversation with the Yi", I reach for my intellectual revolver. Surely you know how people have had their lives lessened or have been destroyed by compulsive and obsessive casting? I'd much prefer that my fellow human being did well but know for sure that many will not. "Man is born to suffering as the sparks fly upward. (Job 5:7)"

Well, no one can say there's no diversity of opinions on the subject. That is your opinion, you know, Tom. And your biblical quote was an admonition from one of Job's so-called friends, Eliphaz, spoken as though condemnation directly from God. But what did he know better of God than Job himself, whom God called his servant? In the end Eliphaz was commanded by God to apologize and give offerings to Job, the one he had condemned.

 

[pocossin]

But what did he know better of God than Job himself, whom God called his servant? In the end Eliphaz was commanded by God to apologize and give offerings to Job, the one he had condemned.

You needn't apologize and give offerings to me, Sooo. Hard as it may be it appear, I want you to do well and think that on many points, you are my superior.

 

[sooo]

ttc 41

"higher people" do not refer to themselves as higher people. - dao de sooo - verse 1

 

[sooo]

The Book of Changes is not called The Book of the Law.

 

[sooo]

You needn't apologize and give offerings to me, Sooo. Hard as it may be it appear, I want you to do well and think that on many points, you are my superior.

Tom, if you're going to throw biblical scripture around to support your personal opinions, at least include the correct context, or else your intellectual revolver is pointed directly at you.

 

[sooo]

A point I'd like to make on asking what another thinks of oneself. The laws written in the Yijing are natural laws. All hexagrams but two derive their image from nature; the well and cauldron being the exceptions.

What does a deer buck ask about a doe during mating season? A peacock? A male lion of a lioness? A lioness of a lion? Even a male spider of a female spider, and sometimes vice verse? What does she/he think of me? During the rut, one male asks of another, does he intended to contend with me for that doe? Or a male hippo of another male hippo, what does he think, what do his instincts tell him? Am I big and intimidating enough? Maybe if I open my mouth REALLY wide and show my big teeth, he will think it wiser to move on? These are natural laws. Why then would humans be forbidden to ask what another thinks of them? What natural law forbids this?

 

[pocossin]

Tom, if you're going to throw biblical scripture around to support your personal opinions, at least include the correct context, or else your intellectual revolver is pointed directly at you.

You've no idea of my opinions and imagine they are as arbitrary and personal as your own. For ten years, until the server was infected by a virus, I had a webpage about the cosmological basis of the Ten Commandments. Free to all, and none accepted it. That's good. It they don't get it in this incarnation, they can get it in the next or the next or the next .... Not my problem. No more of my pearls before swine. Unlike yourself, I have never had a handgun and never will, although I have used them accurately. Except in the trenches, too easy to hurt yourself. A long barrel can do all the damage I want done.

 

[anemos]

Nature has equipt us with the curcuits for mind reading. Some called it ToM, others use different terms.

Its at least funny to talk about mind reading, using Yi or our own capacities, at this place , where we give interpretations, where we try to understand the person's dispodition, feelings, thoughts so we can give a fitting response.

i have similar experience with diamanta and i know for sure that others have asked about me and were given eery accurate readings.

I have read that didactic opinions about that specific issue so many times and only way i understand them is a personal need of the beholder that in order to be satisfied sees intentions and rules.

i bet that if we ask yi if its a spiritual teacher, again in that didactic way the answer will be no.

 

[taoscopy]

What is bad is what lessens human life -- an anthropocentric position for which I may be criticized. Addictive casting is such an evil, as Larouge correctly identifies it. It lead to shallow, mechanical interpretation. Hey! You got 41? You are going to lose money. You got 42? You are in the money. The late Mary Halpin's interpretations were no more sophisticated in spite of her law degree and her extensive experience of life. Compulsive and obsessive casting is excused at Clarity as "conversation with the Yi." When I hear "conversation with the Yi", I reach for my intellectual revolver. Surely you know how people have had their lives lessened or have been destroyed by compulsive and obsessive casting? I'd much prefer that my fellow human being did well but know for sure that many will not. "Man is born to suffering as the sparks fly upward. (Job 5:7)"

I know I've done compulsive casting and I have also been pondering an answer for 10 years. The Yi has destroyed my life and has also fixed it.

Conversation with the Yi? Shoot me then, I have asked evey kind of question possible from the lottery numbers, what this girl thinks of me, if I should go out to buy pizza, if it was going to rain today, questions about books, about pôlitics, about movies, about religion, about games, about random people in the street, if I could get 10 millions on my bank account tommorrow morning, and a lot more i forgot. While making the comments I've cast over 500 hexagrams per day, sometimes over 1k.

I talk with the Yi like I would talk with you.

But you know what? When the Yi tells you with 38.1, to be patient with evil people, it's a spiritual lesson. And you will be sent evil people after you again and again and again until you understand how 38.1 works and how to deal with them. So, call them rules or lessons or just lines, I don't care. And when you master 38.1 it's time for another lesson, let's do 14.3 then 32.5, 43.5 and so on.

Then when you master the lines it's time to learn the combinations, let me show you some:

56.3: One forgets someone close thus loses them.

then 56.6: It is imprudent to accept without discussion.

The two together tell you that when you lose a friend you should not accept without discussion.

56.2: One meets someone who is willing to help.

56.2.6 tells you that when you should not accept someone who is friendly without discussion.

Then there are combinations across hexagrams.

The Yi gave me this for 17.3: When one prefers the best, the least goes away.

and this for 43.1: There is a risk of rupture by displaying one's preferences. One must keep a low profile.

So, I ask Yi, hey aren't 17.3 and 43.1 contradictory?

Then Yi answers 23.6: One accepts the rupture. They will obtain support and means of action.

I was stunned...I would be a genius if I made those comments alone, but the Yi gave them to me.

 

[sooo]

Nature has equipt us with the curcuits for mind reading. Some called it ToM, others use different terms.

Its at least funny to talk about mind reading, using Yi or our own capacities, at this place , where we give interpretations, where we try to understand the person's dispodition, feelings, thoughts so we can give a fitting response.

i have similar experience with diamanta and i know for sure that others have asked about me and were given eery accurate readings.

I have read that didactic opinions about that specific issue so many times and only way i understand them is a personal need of the beholder that in order to be satisfied sees intentions and rules.

i bet that if we ask yi if its a spiritual teacher, again in that didactic way the answer will be no.

I'd bet so too. I feel the same about a psych teacher, a philosophic teacher, a moral teacher, etc. I think the question is, what is it we wish to learn, because that is how we will interpret Yi's answers. Now I mean really wish to learn, our true self wishes, not our 54 self, our temporary and passionate self, our needy self, our insecure self, our feeling sorry for our-self self. Yi's answer to me about why do you (Yi) provide these answers? What's in it for you? A: 13. I thought that to be a most interesting answer, but not a closed and finalized absolute answer.

Using my natural law example, many animals are highly ritualistic in their mating. Marking territory with their urine, and the urine itself leaving a sign for the potential mate to interpret. When I walk with a dog, the dog "reads" a tree or patch of grass. It senses what dogs have left their code there, is he or she ready to mate, are they domestic dogs, coyotes, white wolves. The dog reads these signs, which tells an entire history and stories, and then he adds his own signature to that tree or clump of grass for the others to read and interpret. I think it's safe to say there's quite a bit of h10 in that. I think Yi and our mind works that way. I think that is fellowship.

When someone adds layers of do and don't, of this way not that way, or spiritual this and moral that, that is their own code, their own piss on the tree for others to read and interpret. Yi's answers help us to connect to those tracks and signs. We use our intellect rather than our nose, but learning to use our animal senses makes us better readers of the signs, senses we otherwise have left so far behind.

 

[pocossin]

I've cast over 500 hexagrams per day, sometimes over 1k.

You may deserve a place in Guinness World Records for the most I Ching castings in a day. At one casting per minute, a thousand would take 16 hours and 40 minutes.

 

[taoscopy]

You may deserve a place in Guinness World Records for the most I Ching castings in a day. At one casting per minute, a thousand would take 16 hours and 40 minutes.

On my site they come almost instantly so I could cast 1k in 1 hour. On my app there is a timer but I can cast like 3-5 in one minute. Now, I don't usually cast 1k per day.

Here is another combination for you, 56.4.6:

56 - Search
One restores order to find.


4 - Defending oneself from others, one is not doing well.

6 - It is imprudent to accept without discussion.
In the making
15 - Decency

One shall not provoke with initiatives.

Do not accept criticism without discussion.

.

 

[diamanda]

Here is another combination for you, 56.4.6:
56 - Search
One restores order to find.
4 - Defending oneself from others, one is not doing well.
6 - It is imprudent to accept without discussion.
In the making
15 - Decency
One shall not provoke with initiatives.
Do not accept criticism without discussion.

Hexagram 56, line 6:

I Ching text:
Bird burns its nest. Traveler first laughs, then cries and wails. Loses ox with ease. Inauspicious.

Taoscopy's "translation"? interpretation?
It is imprudent to accept without discussion.



I suggest a second Guinness World Record, for 'Wildest Text Distortion Beyond Recognition of Original'.

 

[taoscopy]

I suggest a second Guinness World Record, for 'Wildest Text Distortion Beyond Recognition of Original'.

I see what you did here! It's 56.5.6:

56 - Search

One restores order to find.

5 - One prepares alternatives if necessary.

6 - It is imprudent to accept without discussion.
In the making
31 - Impulse

When one helps others, they come.

Don't accept alternatives without discussion.

If you think that 56 is badly distorted you've not seen the other hexagrams. Anyways, bring me your casts and we check them against these comments.