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It furthers one to see the great man

M

maremaria

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What does that mean.?

When we get a hex or a line with that phrase, does it means that we need external help to meet a situation or something else ?
 

dobro p

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The great person is the one who is above the norm, one who isn't limited to concern with the physical and the lower psychological, one who balances compassion and discernment, one who is less obsessessed with the self-concern of the ego. The great person has made a study of practical psychology and spirit, which means a study of him/herself using the guidance available through traditions and teachers who deal in this sort of knowledge. The great person has gone beyond mere study though, because he/she has actually taken at least some of the steps that transform one's being - see, the great person has taken on the responsibility of making changes in their life according to the self-knowledge gained: the 'too much' here has been reduced, the 'too little' there has been developed, the system has been brought into balance, awareness has been stabilized, the yin and yang of his/her being is in a state of conscious, dynamic equilibrium. The state of mind is often one of peace, love, understanding.

Okay, so when you draw the 'advantageous to see the great person' line, what does it mean? I see various possibilities.

* Read scripture. The spiritual message that speaks to you evokes your own higher potential. This is contacting the great person.

* Rig a physical meeting with a great person. A meditation teacher, someone you know who walks their talk, someone who has worked with life and on themselves to bring about personal change. It doesn't have to be a 'professional' spiritual teacher. It might be a recovered alcoholic. Anyone who sincerely works for personal transformation qualifies as a great person.

* Pray to the spiritual teacher of your choice. This person doesn't have to be alive now (but can be). This person doesn't have to be famous (but can be).

* Access your own higher mind. Unplug the phone, shut the door, stop activity, meditate or pray or read a useful book, and direct your attention 'inward' toward your own being. Direct your attention to whatever or whoever it is that asks the question 'what is the meaning of the great person?' You will not find it (in the same way it is impossible for the eye to see itself) but in the act of directing attention toward what you really are, your state shifts in the direction of (and possibly attains) the great person in yourself. See, that great person is in you, fully operative, if only you learn how to become aware of it.
 

charly

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...does it means that we need external help to meet a situation or something else ?
María:

I believe that to see a great person is an advice. We always need some external help. But if the meaning is not so clear in english, it is less clear in chinese.

The character translated «to see» means:
  • to see, to observe (from some distance)
  • to meet with, to have an encounter (to get contact, to interact)
The character translated «great» means:
  • big, large (physical sense)
  • great (moral sense)

The character translated «person» means:
  • individual wide sense PERSON, individual male person MAN
  • plural wide sense PERSONS, male persons MEN
  • generic persons PEOPLE

All the combinatory is valid. 2 x 2 x 3 = 12. not less than 12, surely much more.

Examples:
  • Look for somebody important for you or with enough authority for give you advice or example, no needed to be perfect.
  • Look how great people behave. Could be selected people, could be majorities, could be large groups.

The advice is polysemic, it has too much senses. The context of your consult will give you the precise meaning for you.

Remember, no matter how tall, big or great we could be, always there is a person or a group that is taller, bigger or greater than us!

Don't look for a perfect, wise master, look at the master you have at hand, the one that can help you, sometimes yourself, sometimes not.

Yours,

Charly
 
M

maremaria

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Dobro and Charly thank you.

I always found that phrase tough to understand. Still I do.
I got a reading yesterday and got 45. The weird think was that although the last days posting in another thread about 45 didn’t notice that phrase. One time seems like invisible and then you see it in bold, big letters

Anyway I ask Yi “who/ what is the great man ?” and got 23.5,6 to 8
Haven’t figure out yet which is the case here. External or internal being.

Keep thinking about it....

Maria
 

rosada

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While 45 has been the topic of discussion on the other thread i have been reading about Muhammad. One of his most significant achievements was to bring the many warring tribes of Arabia together. The tribes did not completely trust each other, but at least he got them to Gather Together. Certainly an example of a Great Man.
 

dobro p

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There was greatness in Lawrence, but perhaps there were some other elements as well that 'curved' the greatness as it came through him.
 
M

maremaria

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:lalala:

When I first saw that movie many-many year ago, I felt in love with that character and Peter O'Toole.

But seriously, yes you might be right.
 

Sparhawk

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:lalala:

When I first saw that movie many-many year ago, I felt in love with that character and Peter O'Toole.

But seriously, yes you might be right.
You fell in love with Peter O'Toole and the romanticized version of the character he played in the movie... :D I seriously doubt you would fall in love with the real T.E. Lawrence... We may still be paying for some of the dabbling him and others from the British Empire did in the Middle East in the early 20th century...
 
M

maremaria

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You fell in love with Peter O'Toole and the romanticized version of the character he played in the movie... :D .
I was VERY young..... But I still like that movie...:)

I seriously doubt you would fall in love with the real T.E. Lawrence... We may still be paying for some of the dabbling him and others from the British Empire did in the Middle East in the early 20th century...
With a sun in Scorpio..... You never know :rolleyes: :rofl:
 

Sparhawk

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I was VERY young..... But I still like that movie...:)



With a sun in Scorpio..... You never know :rolleyes: :rofl:
With the Sun in Scorpio?? Hmmm, checking the stars for the right moment... :rofl:
 

Sparhawk

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Really ? I thougth you were talking seriously....:rolleyes:
Hey, I've read Greek history. I know what happened to Troy because of an infatuation with a Greek woman... I'm afraid of being serious... :rofl:
 
H

hmesker

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Just to add some general ideas of how the expression 大人 was used throughout Chinese history, I'll give the meanings from the 漢語大詞典 dictionary:

.指在高位者,如王公貴族
refers to someone in a high position
.猶言王者
another word for the king
.對宮闈近侍的尊稱
honorific title for a personal attendant in the palace chambers
.指世家豪右
refers to a rich and powerful aristocratic family
.指德行高尚、志趣高遠的人
refers to someone with high moral, high conduct and aspirations
.對老者、長者的敬稱
respectful title for the elder people
.對父母叔伯等長輩的敬稱。《史記。
respectful title for parents, uncles etc., the elder generation
.指成年人。
. refers to adults
.身材長大的人
refers to tall people (duh)
.古代北方部族首領之稱
in ancient times the name of a chief of the Northern tribes
.周代占夢之官
during the Zhou-dynasty an official who interpreted dreams

Harmen.
 
M

maremaria

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Thank you Harmen.

I visit you site but couldn't find something about it (in English)

Maria
 

bradford

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Don'cha think the term "role model" belongs somewhere in this discussion?
An exemplar? Someone who's been where you want to go?
 

dobro p

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Yes, of course. That sums it up.

That's why you go and see the great person. To get yourself oriented properly by being receptive to his/her being. We all know we can't make it on our own. But the Yi points out that in some cases, not only can you not make it on your own, you can't make it by associating with people at your own level of understanding and experience, either.

A How we gonna do this?

B Dunno. Whatcha think?

A We need somebody who knows about this.

B Damn straight.
 
H

hmesker

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I visit you site but couldn't find something about it (in English)
That;s correct, I didn't write anything about it :eek:. But in my small Dutch book De I Tjing Stap voor Stap (ISBN 9020201247) I wrote this about it (comparing the 'great man' with the junzi, the 'superior man'):

In ancient times the junzi was a prince of high descent. We are dealing here with someone who by his descent has been given a lot of responsability. Because of his descent he has a high place in society. This position has not been chosen voluntarily and it is not something he has achiveed by hard work, he only got it because of his high descent. With this position comes a lot of responsability. The junzi is someone who acknowledges and accepts this responsability. Because it is not chosen voluntarily it is connected to his inner being, his own nature. The junzi will try to live in such a way that he can perform the responsabilities that belong to his nature. He is aware of the way he has to go and will not deviate from it. The junzi knows his own nature.

'The great man' is also someone with a lot of responsability, but he chose for it himself. He knows that his inner nature has te be cultivated, and he has to take care of this himself. The great man is all his life working on the perfection of his inner being by learning lessons and receiving instructions. Because of this the great man often has experience the junzi lacks. The junzi has to make sure his nature does not obfuscate, but the great man has to make his nature clear.

Harmen.
 
M

meng

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I take "see" as a double entendre, meaning to go see someone, and also to open eyes and recognize virtue.
 

hilary

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Wonderful thread!

Harmen, I seem to remember reading in Rutt somewhere that the king could both make you noble by enfeoffing you, and also demote you from noble to peasant if you lost a battle. So being junzi wouldn't necessarily/ exclusively be something you were born into, even early on.

BTW, Wu Jing Nuan describes 'seeing the great person' as consulting with the diviner - maybe a related meaning to the official who interpreted dreams?
 

dobro p

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Okay, I've read the thread and all the meanings, and I've decided that 'see the great person' means to go attend a basketball game:

.身材長大的人
refers to tall people (duh)
 
M

maremaria

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Most of the times, I perceived “the great man” as the “mentor”. I ‘m not sure if it is the same as the “role model” Bradford mentioned.

When we come across with a problem or a challenge, sometimes we feel we need a “swift kick”. A mentor’s presence could give that to us. S/he give us advises, teach us something, or reminds us that we already know what to do.

In such situations, I feel its hard to believe that we are “the great man” but even if Yi means that, imo, its seems like a warning that we are walking away from the “wise” part of us and wandering without a specific or meaningful goal.

meng :I take "see" as a double entendre, meaning to go see someone, and also to open eyes and recognize virtue.
Interesting the two meanings you assign to “see”. Seek for help (from inside or outside) but choose carefully from where you get it.
 
M

meng

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Interesting the two meanings you assign to “see”. Seek for help (from inside or outside) but choose carefully from where you get it.
Thanks for leaving out the word "virtue" from my quote; I was just about to edit it out of my post. It isn't "seeing virtue", it's just "seeing", or more specifically, seeing as a great (or as Brad calls it: a mature) person would see.
 

dobro p

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In such situations, I feel its hard to believe that we are “the great man” but even if Yi means that, imo, its seems like a warning that we are walking away from the “wise” part of us and wandering without a specific or meaningful goal.
It might be a warning, or it might be nothing other than something which is very, very useful, like when you want to become a doctor or concert pianist, you need a teacher to show you lots of things you need to know to achieve that goal.

As for you being the great person yourself, that can be one of the inner meanings for sure. Have you ever come across the idea that higher mind and divinity are part of our being but we don't see it because we cling to lower, egocentric ways of looking and doing? It's more common in places like Buddhism than in Christianity, I think, and of course rampant in newage stuff.
 
M

maremaria

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Okay, I've read the thread and all the meanings, and I've decided that 'see the great person' means to go attend a basketball game:

.身材長大的人
refers to tall people (duh)
When I read that in Harmen's post , it came to my mind two tiny and young people, kids to be accurate, that sometimes their wisdom, if it is the correct word, makes you run to hide. They say some simple things that they leave you with the mouth wide open. The best you can say , is "yup, you are right" :bag:

Maybe, if we don't take literaly all those meaning of "great man" Harmen provided us, I see Yi advice us to seek for the greatiness some being have and learn from it. And by Being I mean everything human being or not human being. From a great philospopher to my little nieces.
 

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