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Jared Lee Loughner?

sibyleyes

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I found this case to be highly strange and disturbing and my curiosity propelled me to cast a reading in regards to this event. First question I asked was why did he commit this horrible massacre and got Hexagram 48.3 changing to 29.

Line 3 reads: The well is cleansed, but still, to my heart’s sorrow, no one comes to drink from it. Yet the water could be drawn. If the king were wise, many could share his good fortune.
This indicates that a capable man is at hand but that his abilities are not recognized and no use is made of him. If only someone in high position could appreciate his talents he could do much to help the people.

It changes to 29 which is the abyss, darkness, danger, chaos, etc.

One interpretation from the I Ching for a New Age: The Book of Answers for Changing Times By Robert G. Benson reads for this line:

"He finds himself trapped and so cannot be renewed. He needs renewal, but without help he cannot get it"

Seems to correlate well with his mental illness and lack of support from friends, family and mental health professionals.

Also, I asked if he could have perhaps been mind-controlled by CIA as an assassin and fall guy as this event caused many fingers to be pointed towards such controversial figures as David Icke, Alex Jones(because of his appearance in the film "Waking Life") and the Zeitgeist Movement based on his obsession with the nature of currency and the need to go back to printing ones own currency and going back to the gold standard. He was also obsessed with the use of words to manipulate and control reality and was said to have thought he might in fact be mind controlled himself. To my perception, he seems to fit the mold of someone under MK Ultra.

In regards to the latter inquiry I received Hexagram 44.1.4 changing to 9.

The main Hexagram 44 seems to suggest some kind of dark approaching influence which is changed to Hexagram 9 or the Taming Power of the Small.

From the Wilhelm-Baynes translation of “The I Ching or Book of Changes“

Hexagram 9: This hexagram means the force of the small – the power of the shadowy – that restrains, tames, impedes. A weak line in the fourth place, that of the minister, holds the five strong lines in check. In the Image it is the wind blowing across the sky. the wind restrains the clouds, the rising breath of the Creative, and makes them grow dense, but as yet is not strong enough to turn them to rain. The hexagram presents a configuration of circumstances in which a strong element is temporarily held in leash by a weak element. it is only through gentleness that this can have a successful outcome.

The changing lines are as follows:

Line 1

The wheel is checked with a brake of bronze. Righteous persistence brings good fortune. It is not fortunate to have a destination. A lean pig still struggles.

A bad influence must be constantly checked and its ill effects will be avoided. But if the restraints are relaxed, as if allowing a chariot to move forward again toward its destination, only misfortune can result. A pig should be fat and so it must not be allowed to run about however hard it struggles.

Line 4

There is no fish in the bag. Misfortune.

It is necessary to make use of inferior people in furthering one’s aims. The man who does not do so will lose them by his indifference, just when he most needs them.

So was Jared Lee Loughner the inferior person, the lean pig, conditioned and used to further the aims of this dark force(Hexagram 44)??

What do YOU guys make of this?????
 

sibyleyes

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Some more on Hexagram 44:

In hexagram 44 we are crossing the border. It symbolizes the way from the light to the passive and seductive dark. A point of potential and non-innocence far from the actual and innocent. It is the path from the firm to the yielding, emphasized in the image by the using of the concept of fate as a tool to control the people (i.e. "It is supposed to be this way, it is fated."). The line comments emphasize the concept of holding on to things possibly past their, or your, time; their apparent 'value' keeping the tie. Contextually, we are combining seeding with commitment.
 

mythili

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48.3 - if only someone had seen what was necessary, what help he needed, and had done something about it!
44.1, 4: 44.1 - he was out of control and 44.4 - isolated from other people.
 

sibyleyes

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Ahh, also noticed that Line 1 in Hexagram 44, the encroaching inferior element of the lean pig is elevated to Line 4 in Hexagram 9, which is the line of the minister, a person acting as the agent or instrument of another.
 

sibyleyes

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Hey mythili!

Yes, that is entirely correct. He was out of control and isolated from others but isn't that exactly the kind of candidate that is ripe for mind control? In my reasoning, if the relating Hexagram would have been almost any other than Hexagram 9 or the Taming Power of the Small with Line 4, the line of the minister accentuated(outside agency in service to the government which is pretty much what the CIA is), I would have also dismissed his actions as that of just one sick individual operating alone. But alas there seems to have been some kind of outside agency involved in guiding his actions that is clearly hinted at by the I Ching.

The mirror image for Hex 44.4 is 9.4 which reads:
Six in the fourth place means:
If you are sincere, blood vanishes and fear gives way.
No blame.

If one is in the difficult and responsible position of counselor to a powerful man, one should restrain him in such a way that right may prevail. therein lies a danger so great that the threat of actual bloodshed may arise. Nonetheless, the power of disinterested truth is greater than all these obstacles. It carries such weight that the end is achieved, and all danger of bloodshed and all fear disappear.

Bloodshed indeed happened. Scary.
 

Trojina

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I don't know much about this case but I was thinking 48.3 could refer to his own abilties and talents being unused, discarded. This can act as a poison, when one cannot give what one has to give it can become toxic. if someone had recognised his abilities, whatever they were and nurtured him, rather than killing he may have gone another route.


I once heard somewhere the greatest criminals also have the greatest potential... a great power in any form, impeded, frustrated can become warped, misdirected. Capacity to do exceptional deeds may become capacity to do exceptional bad deeds.


Having said this i don't actually know anything about this person or what he did so what i've said may just not fit in anyway

..I don't understand the CIA stuff you mention :confused: Are you actually saying you believe someones mind can be remotely controlled to kill ?
 

Trojina

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Hey mythili!

Yes, that is entirely correct. He was out of control and isolated from others but isn't that exactly the kind of candidate that is ripe for mind control? In my reasoning, if the relating Hexagram would have been almost any other than Hexagram 9 or the Taming Power of the Small with Line 4, the line of the minister accentuated(outside agency in service to the government which is pretty much what the CIA is), I would have also dismissed his actions as that of just one sick individual operating alone. But alas there seems to have been some kind of outside agency involved in guiding his actions that is clearly hinted at by the I Ching.The mirror image for Hex 44.4 is 9.4 which reads:
Six in the fourth place means:
If you are sincere, blood vanishes and fear gives way.
No blame.

If one is in the difficult and responsible position of counselor to a powerful man, one should restrain him in such a way that right may prevail. therein lies a danger so great that the threat of actual bloodshed may arise. Nonetheless, the power of disinterested truth is greater than all these obstacles. It carries such weight that the end is achieved, and all danger of bloodshed and all fear disappear.

Bloodshed indeed happened. Scary.
...er no ....IMO it isn't clearly indicated by the I Ching. What you have done in previous posts is highlight some words from someones commentary, Wilhelm I think, and applied them literally when they are just his thoughts about the actual text of the I Ching , not necessarily words that are used in a direct translation of the I Ching. Given that can you rely so heavily on Wilhelms words ?


Nevertheless an interesting thread, interesting thoughts, I'm not critisizing, I just don't think the I Ching is clearly indicating what you say. The lines received could be interpreted any number of ways...couldn't they ?


I would imagine the 'why' of what he did to be quite complex, not just one factor
 
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sibyleyes

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Trojan:
I'm not crazy, therefore I am a rational person and can honestly say I do NOT know anything for sure. I only know how it appears to me. The Oracle is a mirror to ones own consciousness, yes? Therefore, the person deciphering is doing so through ones own consciousness. I am merely trying to make sense of what the Oracle answered me through my own reasoning which is hence the Oracle's reasoning as it is a mirror of my own consciousness. There is no clear line between the Oracle and myself. What I see is based on the symbols that correspond to archetypes already slumbering in my own subconscious which is tied to the subconscious of all beings, this is the inherent synchronicity element the Oracle operates on. It may or may not be the complete Truth but just one puzzle piece. This is just one way it chooses to appear to me. As with any divination tool, the answer lies in the eyes of the beholder.

I understand what you are saying though. You think that I may be twisting the words of the Oracle to suit my own beliefs? Isn't that the whole point? As in dream interpretation where you have to find your own meaning? Or are you saying that the Oracle is completely objective?
 

mythili

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The dark destructive side of 44 need not come from outside, but can be within a person also. For example, 44.5 can mean a (sudden) idea or inspiration etc. Hex 9 could be read in this context as a small amount of restraint, as opposed to H 26, which is much stronger restraint. Perhaps his own lack of control, combined with the insufficient restraining of him is what allowed him to lose his perspective altogether, to get out of control to such an extent. So I think if you want to find out if the "mind control" is from an external source rather than his own fantasies that went out of control (his schizophrenia), you can ask the Yi again about that. But I dont think the reading as is - 44 to 9 says anything about its being an internal or external mind control.
 

rosada

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Interesting that the idea of mind control comes up in these hexagrams. Perhaps this is a reference to the question about whether he was influenced by the negative political ads politicians like Palin were posting.

rosada
 

Trojina

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Trojan:
I'm not crazy, therefore I am a rational person and can honestly say I do NOT know anything for sure. I only know how it appears to me. The Oracle is a mirror to ones own consciousness, yes? Therefore, the person deciphering is doing so through ones own consciousness. I am merely trying to make sense of what the Oracle answered me through my own reasoning which is hence the Oracle's reasoning as it is a mirror of my own consciousness. There is no clear line between the Oracle and myself. What I see is based on the symbols that correspond to archetypes already slumbering in my own subconscious which is tied to the subconscious of all beings, this is the inherent synchronicity element the Oracle operates on. It may or may not be the complete Truth but just one puzzle piece. This is just one way it chooses to appear to me. As with any divination tool, the answer lies in the eyes of the beholder.

I understand what you are saying though. You think that I may be twisting the words of the Oracle to suit my own beliefs? Isn't that the whole point? As in dream interpretation where you have to find your own meaning? Or are you saying that the Oracle is completely objective?
I never said you were crazy though I don't believe for one moment someone can make someone else mass murder through remote mind control...but if you did believe it I wouldn't necessarily say you were crazy for thinking that. But I didn't know if thats what you were saying...I'm very fuzzy about American politics but all I know is Americans appear (on the internet anyway) right now to be about the most paranoid country on the planet judging by the number of threads here about sinister government plots . There seems no limit to what to what some think the government can actually do and I just don't understand it.

Of course you may not be American either so I make an assumption there...but obviously there would have been alot more news coverage there than here in UK so enhancing your interest in this incident


Anyway no I don't think the Oracle is a mirror of our consciousness I always feel that to be a rather solipsistic approach. I think the Oracle is the oracle but thats just a personal opinion. Sure on some level we are all one and the Oracle is my mind/your mind but actually I really don't see it as a reflection of my personal consciousness. There are external realities to my portion of consciousness as I experience it right now and the Yi seems to delight in reminding me of them LOL. I don't think the world will form itself to my perceptions about what to call it. When we are still living in the sense of our personal seperate consciousness as most of us are having not yet reached nirvana or whatever then frankly no I don't think the Yis answers all come as just a mirror reflection

However you ask if the oracle is objective...well actually it does seems to be as in terms of it gives a balanced view and doesn't always cater to what you want to hear, but also of course it answers us in particular so its also a very intimate subjective thing.

However you said the I Ching clearly indicated this guy was being mind controlled (whatever that entails ?) and I am saying it may be saying it clearly to you but that doesn't mean it is the objective truth.

For me these readings could be open to any number of interpretations, and presumably you came here to share interpretations and to ask for feedback on your views. Well my view is one could interpret these readings any number of ways and to my mind they do not clearly suggest mind control in anyway at all...at least not in the sense that the man was forced to kill against his will. Although I guess one could certainly say power/mind games/manipulation might well come under 44 for sure. On reflection I 've certainly known a good deal of that in 44 type transactions. I just want to be clear what you mean here by 'mind control'


Perhaps this is a topic for open space but I'd be interested to hear a bit more about this mind control theory ? I also don't understand how it would help the American government to get a man to go and kill people at random ? How does that serve them ?



I've seen all sorts of weird and wonderful stuff and I think I am quite open to all kinds of possibilities in the psychic/spiritual realm but I have never known someone make someone else do something , from a distance, purely by the power of their mind. Have you known that, seen that in your own life ? Theres influence and manipulation for sure but thats not the same thing as remote mind control to the extent murders can be 'ordered' from afar
 
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Trojina

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Interesting that the idea of mind control comes up in these hexagrams. Perhaps this is a reference to the question about whether he was influenced by the negative political ads politicians like Palin were posting.

rosada
:confused: Are you saying Rosada that this guy was a mass killer because he was influenced by negative political ads. Are you saying the fact that he went on a killing spree was partly down to Palin and other political figures ?
 
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rosada

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No, I'm not saying anything about whether he was or was not intentionally manipulated to preform these murders. I'm saying it's interesting that people have seen the I Ching hexagrams as making references to mind control and in the real life situation people have questioned if his mind was influenced by the Palin political ads. So I'm saying I find it interesting that questions about outside influence have come up in the real world and in the interpretation of the hexagrams.

Personally I read 48.3 in this instance as suggesting that the man felt he was ignored and that he thought by taking this action he would gain some sort of favorable attention. So I don't think it is saying that he was zombie like manipulated, but I think it could be seen as saying he was motivated not by revenge, but by the desire to impress some higher up - perhaps Palin or others whom he may have felt were calling for violence against political opponents.
-rosada
 

sibyleyes

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Hey Trojan!

Well, my interest in this case is indeed because I am an American but also because I have been interested in the CIA MK Ultra program for a while now. If you are interested in mind control just pick up a book on MK Ultra and do some research. Trance: Formation of America is a good place to start.

I am absolutely NOT denying that Jared Lee Loughner was mentally disturbed. He was very sick and I'm sorry he could not get help in time and sorry for the individuals especially the little girl who died. But he was also a smart and capable young individual who was into uncovering truth and therefore a threat to the government because of his radical ideas. Actually, a mentally unstable yet intelligent person is the perfect candidate for mind control because they are great at compartmentalizing.

Also, what I'm trying to say is not that Jared himself alone was a threat but that he was a threat because he represents an emerging element that is spreading in the young generation of today. The Zeitgeist movement is gaining momentum, the youth is wary of government and with the collapsing economy, they will get restless. Soo why not groom or perhaps just give a little push to someone already on the edge looking into the abyss and get him to be the fall guy for this whole dangerous emerging new group before they get out of control with their radical theories??

The main reason why I'm so concerned is because of the effect it's having on America. It falls right into the whole "We create the problem so we can give you the solution we really wanted from the start" which usually means loss of more freedoms. Americans have seen it happen with 9/11 and the Patriot Act, which has been conveniently sketched out prior in PNAC.

So what does this horrific massacre achieve?? Well, forced disarmament of the people for one! This in a country where the right to bear arms is almost at the top of the page (2nd Amendment) and the ad hominem virus that is released whereupon now anyone who is for gun control, the gold standard, lucid dreaming, conspiracies, is an anarchist or libertarian, listening to David Icke or Alex Jones, watching Zeitgeist, or hell even reading Philip K Dick, etc can now be labeled an insensitive loon or worse a terrorist. :Shudder:

Anyhoo, I notice you keep referring to "remote" mind control. I never used the word remote. It's actually more like hypnosis, especially in military settings. Jared Lee Loughner was in fact an army recruit. He exhibited all the behavior of someone either severely depressed and/or handled and was obsessed with mind control and the use of grammar to manipulate society, even making comments about being under mind control.

And Rosada does have a very valid point about the Palin cross hairs on the map. Mind control operatives respond to certain triggers that can be found in ads, on the news, or in a phone call, etc that can activate them.
 

rosada

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I think it would be wonderful if this horrific incident resulted in some sort of gun control laws being passed.
-rosada
 

sibyleyes

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Well that would demolish the US Constitution, already being unraveled and torn apart before our eyes. However will you protect yourself and your family if someone broke into your home? Not only that, the founding fathers were careful to make it the 2nd Amendment after freedom of speech since that would keep the people armed in case of the rise of a tyrannical govt entity. Gun control would just give more power to the government military complex and organized crime, I mean look how the mafia burgeoned after the Prohibition.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
 

Trojina

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Well that would demolish the US Constitution, already being unraveled and torn apart before our eyes. However will you protect yourself and your family if someone broke into your home? Not only that, the founding fathers were careful to make it the 2nd Amendment after freedom of speech since that would keep the people armed in case of the rise of a tyrannical govt entity. Gun control would just give more power to the government military complex and organized crime, I mean look how the mafia burgeoned after the Prohibition.

Guns don't kill people. People kill people.
:confused: we don't have guns here in UK to protect our homes, we have gun control and this impacts hugely on how many people get shot. As a child watching US TV I thought all Americans ever did was shoot each other.

Yes people kill people but with a gun in their hand its a helluva lot more likley that they will. If you have a gun in a moment of anger you'll shoot, if you don't you may just lash out with your fists. Which is better ? Shootings are far more common in US than here

I agree with Rosada, gun control would be a big step forward
 
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sibyleyes

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it gets stranger...

Wow this is just all too weird and smells of ritualistic murder.

The little girl shot and killed was Christine Taylor Green, born on 9/11/2001 and gets shot 119 days after her 9th birthday. Letters of her name Christine(9), Taylor(6), Green(5) is 9+(6+5)= 9/11

The date of the shooting 1/8/11= 9/11.

Then, the whole Palin controversy about the a map of the United States with a gun crosshairs on it and in her defense speech where she uses a taboo term like "blood libel" which is the belief that Jews murdered little Christian(Christina who was a Catholic) children and used their blood in rituals has a more disturbing ring to it now that it's connected to all the numerology surrounding the murder of this little girl. I'm Jewish myself and I don't know anything about that but then there are those sick basterds who hide behind religion or the law and practice these horrific rituals.

This is sick sick sick...

Also, a friend pointed out to me that there was an episode of Grey's Anatomy which aired on 1/6/11 on abc just two days before the shooting. The episode was named Disarm(series 7, episode 11 or 7/11) and was about a 22 year old college student named Jared who shoots 26 people on campus.The most popular character on Grey's Anatomy is named Arizona.

http://www.informedia.info/jared-lee-loughner/blog

Can you say Creepy?! So what do you guys think? Could this have been the trigger that set of the killers predictive programming or just some freaky ass synchronicity??

:eek:
 

hollis

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I have no idea Sibyl, if it is programmed , or what. Some of it seems too labored over, like kids who try to scare each other with scary stories. But the little girl being born on Sept 11th is unreal. I can only think about this stuff in some sort of intuitive way, and what it reminds me of, even though i am not a Christian, is what is quoted in Revelations as being 'the mark of the beast'. Whether that is a beast of our imaginings, or some psychic entity, or even an astrological influence that is influencing these times, I do not know.
 

peterg

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government

I think its important to distinguish between the democratically elected governments with their high ideals - and the intelligence services (not counting the bush regimes)The intelligence services do not serve the democracies but follow their own private agenda.The democracies have long since been in the Grip of these services esp. since the Kennedy-King assassainations.

The problem is that the intelligence services worldwide are now cooperating together and are pushing for complete totalitarian control of the world. Anything which demoralises, disorients, confuses, and traumatises the democracies makes them easier prey. First create the problem, then provide the solution.

Over the past number of decades the Pattern of terrorism has been a series of escalating acts culminating in a totally outrageous act : 9-11.The democracies reacted like headless chickens , possibly because of the calibre of candidates.
The extreme right and their mad-hatter friends reacted with hysterical, bullying, flag waving , ultra-violent posturing , war and invasion.

If the above Pattern continues, the reactions will be much the same ,except on a potentially much bigger scale.
 

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