life path

[rose]

Hi everyone,

any help is appreciated. I have been working on getting in med school for 10 months, it seemed everything seemed to fall into place from the entrance exam, to getting an interview, to getting days to prepare. But I did very badly in the interview and didnt get an offer. I truly felt this was the path for me. And dissapointment aside, I know there is a lesson in this, and like to grow. I like to try again next year but dont know if it will be futile.

Why didnt I get thru at this institution?
18 (1,2,3,4,6) --> 51

Is medicine the right path for me?
13(4,6)-->63

Will I do med in 2011?
61(1,2,6) -->8

 

[willowfox]

Why didn't I get thru at this institution? 18 (1,2,3,4,6) --> 51

It suggests that you were just not prepared as the interview was a big shock that caught you out.

Is medicine the right path for me? 13(4,6)-->63

It's something that you have set your heart on but it will be very difficult and will really test your endurance but follow your decision to go with it.

Will I do med in 2011? 61(1,2,6) -->8

Prepare well next time and they should invite you to join, so study and be ready for the next interview. Remember the first time is always the worst, the second time it gets easier.

 

[ginnie]

Whether meds is the right major for you is a good question. Keep it in mind over the next few years. There is, of course, a lot a person can do with an M.D. degree.

With respect to your question about 2011, the Wilhelm/Baynes translation urges you, when you get H8, to ask a second question of the I Ching:

You might ask: "What should I know about that hex 8 I just got?"

Or you might ask: "What area of self-development will now be of greatest benefit to me in attaining my goal?"

I know that everybody doesn't ask the second question, but I like to do it, because this gives the I Ching another chance to communicate and be helpful.

 

[rose]

Thank you for your comments willow and ginnie.

I got Hex 41 when I went on to ask about what I should know abt Hex 8 I got in relation to doing med in 2011.

I do feel sad that I didnt prepare well and it cost me my dream. Then I question is this really what I want to do...then I think it's the dissapointment that's making me talk like this. Maybe I just need to mourn and get the courage to try again. Sigh.

rose

 

[ginnie]

Let It Go

Why didnt I get thru at this institution?
18 (1,2,3,4,6) --> 51

Hexagram 41 means that studying for the meds will now not play such a large role in your life: reduce your involvement. You are urged to restrain any anger or resentment you might feel and suppress your ambitions. Just simply be and forget about being somebody.

You must be more honest with yourself, Rose. When you got that hexagram 18, every single line in it was moving, except the fifth line.

18.1. Your principles are old-fashioned or out-of-date.
18.2. You have some really specific weaknesses that are obvious to other people.
18.3. In your haste you stepped on some toes.
18.4. Your troubles were not over. They had just begun.
18.6. It would be best if you attended to your own affairs. This line could also mean that your true interests are spiritual in nature and that you are not meant for the super-busy life of a doctor.

The fifth line is one in which people react favorably to you if you make any effort to change the mistakes you have made. This is exactly what did not happen. That was the line you did not get.

I think Yi is saying to let it go. Just be yourself for a time and let it all go: the plans, the thinking about it, the studying, the anxiety. This is a time when you just let it all go, Rose. :bows: The thing is, this letting go will lead to your success. Hexagram 41 and hexagram 42 are closely related to each other.

We need to have no involvements in order to receive something better. :bows::bows::bows:

 

[willowfox]

Hex 41 is supposed to clarify Hex 8 which was the answer on whether rose would get a chance to get into med school in 2011.

So, Hex 8 is about joining a group and being accepted as a member, and therefore if rose does not try then obviously she will lose her chance, so she does indeed need to try again.

So, Hex 41 not only calls for simplicity but a sacrifice as well, so joining med school would need sacrifices to be made in rose's way of life plus a need for frugality and simplicity, plus a need to blend in and be just another quiet, unassuming student.

So, telling rose to just forget med school and simply be a nobody is not on and is it?.


Also, 18 > 51 was about why she failed and is certainly not telling rose "to let go" of her dream.

 

[ginnie]

Why?

To get into med school is so difficult that even straight "A" students cannot get into the medical school of their choice.

In my opinion, if I had gotten 18.6, I would realize that med school is the wrong dream for me. A person can have more than one dream. I am sure Rose has more than one dream.

Why does she feel she has to take the hardest, most difficult route to success? She doesn't have to.

I would like to hear from Rose whether or not she has felt a true vocation to be a physician, to be healing the sick, working in a hospital. Has she studied all the biological sciences? Is she particularly attracted to one specialty? Is she ready to spend all her days and nights for the rest of her life becoming a better and better doctor? Is her mother a doctor? Her father?

In other words: Why is Rose trying to get into medical school?

 

[willowfox]

To get into med school is so difficult that even straight "A" students cannot get into the medical school of their choice.

In my opinion, if I had gotten 18.6, I would realize that med school is the wrong dream for me. A person can have more than one dream. I am sure Rose has more than one dream.

Why does she feel she has to take the hardest, most difficult route to success? She doesn't have to.

I would like to hear from Rose whether or not she has felt a true vocation to be a physician, to be healing the sick, working in a hospital. Has she studied all the biological sciences? Is she particularly attracted to one specialty? Is she ready to spend all her days and nights for the rest of her life becoming a better and better doctor? Is her mother a doctor? Her father?

In other words: Why is Rose trying to get into medical school?

May I remind you that lines 18.1,2,3,4,6 were to do with the reason why the board did not accept her this time. Picking lines and hexs as you do at random is not answering the specific question asked. You like taking a line or a hex from one place and apply it to a totally different question.

So, why do doctors take the hardest route to becoming successful? Perhaps they all should have become taxi drivers? No, you are right, rose could have become a Mrs. Mop, that's easy and doesn't need any effort.

Rose asked a few simple questions and now in your wisdom you are trying to pull her dream to pieces, what has her choice of vocation possibility got to do with you? Its none of your business what she wants to do, or even if her family are or have been in the medical profession. Like do we ever question why you wanted to be an accountant? No!

This forum is for answering questions, not setting yourself up as a career councilor.

 

[hilary]

OK, first, Willowfox, if in your opinion someone is making inappropriate posts in this forum, please tell me, and I'll decide whether or not this is 'what it's for'. No need for you to do so.

The forum's for sharing and interpreting readings - which may sometimes mean more than just answering questions, by the way - and Ginnie's doing what anyone would do, drawing on her background knowledge to apply the hexagram to the question.

Rose, sorry you didn't get in this time. University admissions processes can be thoroughly horrible things. (There's an urban legend about an Oxford interview where the interviewer just said 'Impress me' and sat back to read his newspaper. The interviewee took out his lighter and set fire to the paper. Oh, how I wish it were true...) Don't let them get to you. (Note for WF: that's my interpretation of 13.4 )

With hexagram 18 in your answer, it's good to 'dig' a bit - maybe as Ginnie was doing, maybe along different lines. It implies there is something hidden under the surface of your intention, that corrupted your efforts at the interview from within.

No one else can tell you with 100% certainty what that is. It could be quite prosaic - you weren't coming down with 'flu or something on the day of the interview, were you? And it could be something deep-rooted, some pattern you inherited through your parents. (When the lines talk about 'father's corruption' and 'mother's corruption' they can be surprisingly literal.)

I'd suggest reading through all five moving lines - not least line 6, which does invite you to reconsider where your path really leads, and whether you need to be jumping through these admissions hoops at all... - very slowly, thinking about yourself and your family, and imagining what they might be about.

'Ancestral father's corruption.
There is a child,
The deceased elders are without fault.
Danger. In the end, good fortune.'

'Ancestral mother's corruption,
Does not allow constancy.'

'Ancestral father's corruption.
There is small regret,
No great mistake.'

'Comfortable with the father's corruption.
Going on sees shame.'

'No business with kings and lords,
Honouring what is highest is your business.'

 

[willowfox]

Rose, sorry you didn't get in this time. University admissions processes can be thoroughly horrible things. (There's an urban legend about an Oxford interview where the interviewer just said 'Impress me' and sat back to read his newspaper. The interviewee took out his lighter and set fire to the paper. Oh, how I wish it were true...) Don't let them get to you. (Note for WF: that's my interpretation of 13.4

I see line 13.4 differently, as she seems rather despondent after being rejected, in her despair she is crying out, "tell me the truth, is med. for me or not?" She feels alienated by the school, and thus doubt is creeping into her mind, saying that she is not good enough, so now she thinks of the school as the enemy.
But slowly she will come to realize that its no use being angry with the school and neither is it useful to doubt her talents as she needs this school, so the line comes with good fortune tagged onto it, suggesting, stop your upset and despair as med is right for you.

 

[ginnie]

I'm sorry if my style of writing offended anybody. No, I cannot be Rose's career counselor.

Rose, you are a remarkably intelligent person to have passed the exams to get into medical school. I am sure you are multi-talented. Perhaps you are even one of those people who can do almost anything you set your mind to.

But your 18.6 is, I think, pointing you toward something more lofty than taking care of other people's bodily illnesses. Don't medical students spend four or more years studying all about diseases? Isn't medicine the study of every possible thing that can go wrong with the human body? Your 18.6 may also mean that you need to take care of your own personal matters. Many people make their main contribution to the world by the time they can devote to working on themselves. There are so many ways a person can contribute that if we cannot go down one avenue, another avenue will always open to us.

 

[meng]

Rose,

My interpretation is along the line of Ginnie's, but perhaps even more general. It's important to do what you consider to be the right thing, but doing them for the right reasons. I don't see it as prescribing what you should do, but as the productive way to work out those troublesome details which may be standing in the way of achieving what you want to achieve. For example, was there any self-sabotage, possibly due to discouraging words of parents, friends or lover? 18 is a lot about early influences, or current influences which even when well intended bring about corruption in our thinking and actions. 18.6 finally breaks free of all that, and you can make adjustments and corrections based on your ideals, not those of others.

 

[hilary]

I see line 13.4 differently, as she seems rather despondent after being rejected, in her despair she is crying out, "tell me the truth, is med. for me or not?" She feels alienated by the school, and thus doubt is creeping into her mind, saying that she is not good enough, so now she thinks of the school as the enemy.
But slowly she will come to realize that its no use being angry with the school and neither is it useful to doubt her talents as she needs this school, so the line comes with good fortune tagged onto it, suggesting, stop your upset and despair as med is right for you.

That's pretty close to what I meant, at least with regard to the 'doubting her talents' part.
'Is med the right path for me?'
'Bestriding your city walls,
No one is capable of attack.
Good fortune.'
I imagine the walls surrounding a sense of her own value, intelligence and skill. The whole admissions process can launch a huge attack on all that - it sends a delightful, 'No, you are not good enough' message. Mount guard on some good solid walls, and those messages can't get in. Don't let them get to you, in other words .

By the way, Rose, the I Ching could have answered your first question by saying, 'You didn't get in because you're not good enough,' (eg with 43.1 or 4.4) and it didn't.

 

[rosada]

I wonder if 18.6 could be pointing to ways of healing that are not recognized by today's doctors-as-pill-pushers mentality? Perhaps rather than being too concerned as to why you didn't get into med school, Rose, you should look at whether western medicine suits your philosophy. Perhaps homeopathy or some new age techniques deserve a look.
rosada

 

[ginnie]

Healing Environment

I went for a treatment at an acupuncture college today. All the young women are learning to be acupuncturists. I've never felt so secure and well taken care of in a therapeutic setting. They are all so smart! But at the same time it is a healing environment. What a difference!

 

[rose]

It’s taken me sometime to write a reply. I have been overwhelmed, there seemed to be divided views. Namely two – one, not to give up and the other, to give it up. I needed time to do a reality check. This is how I feel.

The kind of medicine I want to do is to the one that reaches to people in need. Especially those who live in rural areas. It is the highest form of myself that I can give to society. I yearn for my life to be more than just being in it. I know it is 4 years of study – only to start with, it takes at least 10 years to be a fully fledged doctor. Yet I am excited about it. I have tried not wanting to do medicine. Yet after more than10 years, it keeps surfacing and I only feel more passionate about it. This is the first year I actually did something about it. My heart knows it is the right place for me. I have studied disciplines, namely Haematology, Biochemistry, Immunology, Microbiology, Histopathology, Clinical chemistry etc, worked in laboratories, done night shift, done transplants on cancer patients. It’s in this hospital surroundings that I have found my joy. I have been tired, I have been overworked and underpaid, yet it’s these nights that I have gone to bed with a smile, knowing I made a difference. And I so want to learn so much more, to do so much more in these disciplines. And everytime I have asked, Hey what’s this job and what does it require, I get MBBS. That’s why I pursue western medicine. I love continually updating my medical knowledge and effecting patients’ lifes. I see what the consultants do, and I am inspired. I see these people giving of themselves and I know there are better ways to make a stress-less living, but I know that’s what I want to do.

I love this forum...anything to do with Yi always sets me straight somehow!!

 

[rose]

You must be more honest with yourself, Rose. When you got that hexagram 18, every single line in it was moving, except the fifth line.

18.1. Your principles are old-fashioned or out-of-date.
18.2. You have some really specific weaknesses that are obvious to other people.
18.3. In your haste you stepped on some toes.
18.4. Your troubles were not over. They had just begun.
18.6. It would be best if you attended to your own affairs. This line could also mean that your true interests are spiritual in nature and that you are not meant for the super-busy life of a doctor.

The fifth line is one in which people react favorably to you if you make any effort to change the mistakes you have made. This is exactly what did not happen. That was the line you did not get.

What came to mind was my interview! I felt the lines were so true!! I went in with a strategy and it backfired. And showed my weaknesses instead, and the panel was clearly not impressed. I did think of appealing but I think with 18.6 I would let this time go. And I clearly experienced shock (Hex 51).

 

[rose]

To get into med school is so difficult that even straight "A" students cannot get into the medical school of their choice.

In my opinion, if I had gotten 18.6, I would realize that med school is the wrong dream for me. A person can have more than one dream. I am sure Rose has more than one dream.

Why does she feel she has to take the hardest, most difficult route to success? She doesn't have to.

I would like to hear from Rose whether or not she has felt a true vocation to be a physician, to be healing the sick, working in a hospital. Has she studied all the biological sciences? Is she particularly attracted to one specialty? Is she ready to spend all her days and nights for the rest of her life becoming a better and better doctor? Is her mother a doctor? Her father?

In other words: Why is Rose trying to get into medical school?

Thanks Ginnie, you have made me see this is my dream, indeed my chosen path. I am attracted to Haematology Oncology in particular. My parents are high school drop outs. No doctors there I chose this path for myself.

 

[rose]

Hex 41 is supposed to clarify Hex 8 which was the answer on whether rose would get a chance to get into med school in 2011.

So, Hex 8 is about joining a group and being accepted as a member, and therefore if rose does not try then obviously she will lose her chance, so she does indeed need to try again.

So, Hex 41 not only calls for simplicity but a sacrifice as well, so joining med school would need sacrifices to be made in rose's way of life plus a need for frugality and simplicity, plus a need to blend in and be just another quiet, unassuming student.


Also, 18 > 51 was about why she failed and is certainly not telling rose "to let go" of her dream.

Thanks Willowfox, so Yi is then telling me that I have to put in effort and sacrifice (cos I want to sit the exam again which calls for much discipline to study whilst working full time).

 

[rose]

I see line 13.4 differently, as she seems rather despondent after being rejected, in her despair she is crying out, "tell me the truth, is med. for me or not?" She feels alienated by the school, and thus doubt is creeping into her mind, saying that she is not good enough, so now she thinks of the school as the enemy.
But slowly she will come to realize that its no use being angry with the school and neither is it useful to doubt her talents as she needs this school, so the line comes with good fortune tagged onto it, suggesting, stop your upset and despair as med is right for you.

Yes I was having doubt creep in my mind. “I must not be good for med school, if not they would have accepted me” I told myself. But I didn’t look at the fact that though thousands sat the exam not everyone got to interview stage. I bombed out at the interview cos I think I sabotaged myself. I think that’s where the corruption came from. All the time I was going thru the application process, I never believed that my dream could come true. 40 mins was all it took to destroy it, for myself by myself.

 

[rose]

(There's an urban legend about an Oxford interview where the interviewer just said 'Impress me' and sat back to read his newspaper. The interviewee took out his lighter and set fire to the paper. Oh, how I wish it were true...) Don't let them get to you. (Note for WF: that's my interpretation of 13.4 )

With hexagram 18 in your answer, it's good to 'dig' a bit - maybe as Ginnie was doing, maybe along different lines. It implies there is something hidden under the surface of your intention, that corrupted your efforts at the interview from within.

Thanks Hilary I feel priviledged to have you comment. Btw I love that urban legend. Hahaha.
I feel I sabotaged myself. It might have to do with my line of thoughts that nothing works out for me. But I got 13.4.6 . I vaguely remember changing line 6 not being positive, what effect would that have I wonder?

 

[rose]

Rose,

My interpretation is along the line of Ginnie's, but perhaps even more general. It's important to do what you consider to be the right thing, but doing them for the right reasons. I don't see it as prescribing what you should do, but as the productive way to work out those troublesome details which may be standing in the way of achieving what you want to achieve. For example, was there any self-sabotage, possibly due to discouraging words of parents, friends or lover? 18 is a lot about early influences, or current influences which even when well intended bring about corruption in our thinking and actions. 18.6 finally breaks free of all that, and you can make adjustments and corrections based on your ideals, not those of others.

Thanks Meng, I feel I had something to do with it, I need to go deeper in myself to figure why I do this.

 

[meng]

It might have to do with my line of thoughts that nothing works out for me.

Isn't it amazing what we do to ourselves? We do have the power to change that (18). Not to get all new age wavy gravy about it, but setting ourselves up in our minds is what we do, one way or another. Might as well make it a success story. But I think it still may bear asking, is this what you really want? And what does success mean to you?

 

[ginnie]

Is medicine the right path for me?
13(4,6)-->63

You are asking the right question. It would be best if you let everything come into view.

I am wondering if you or someone who love very much suffered from leukemia or other disease of the blood and that is why you wish to work to alleviate the suffering of patients with these diseases.

A medical student needs a tremendous amount of support from other people in order to succeed. It has to be a group effort.

For example, I once knew a young woman who grew up in rural China. She suffered terribly from toothaches, but her pain was relieved by a dentist. She felt dentistry was like a miracle and decided to become a dentist. Many of the girls in her family became medical professionals. With the full support of a large extended family, she completed dental school in China and that meant she had to move four times on her own and live in five different provinces. She was working in a dental clinic when she met her husband, an American, and she came to live in this country.

Here she found she could not practice dentistry unless she went to dental school all over again. I was her English language tutor and I helped her get into dental school. She told me the main reason she wanted to work as a dentist in the USA was because if she were dependent on her husband for money, then he and his mother would control her life, and she couldn't live like that, under the thumb of her mother-in-law.

She graduated dental school again here, and now she is working in a hospital as a licensed dentist. She achieved this because she was supported all the way by the whole group of her family, her husband's family, and other organizations that were helping her, including the nonprofit organization where she studied to improve her English.
[/I]

In addition, I helped her with the I Ching. After she was accepted into dental school in NYC, she thought that she should get pregnant the summer before she started dental school! Apparently her husband was pushing her to get pregnant. But I urged her to put this question to the I Ching, and thank God, she understood that her hexagrams advised her against getting pregnant.

About line 13.6, it has various interpretations, and not all of them are bad. It's kind of like being alone, though. You want one thing and get another. It's not so bad, so don't be sad. Like that. One translation says there can be no perfect fellowship on earth, and that is why the top line moving has this quality. One translation says: "This is not what was desired." On the other hand, in such a state one can learn to love all people in exactly the same impartial way, a state called "goodwill to all men."

Of course, nobody has to go to medical school to learn to love all men and women the same way.

I am not so positive about that H41 with no changing lines when you asked about your relating H8. Maybe it just means that your emotions are running too high on all these issues. You might be considering all these important issues from an emotional standpoint only. That will not be good. There are so many steps and stages to becoming a practicing physician. A person has to be using her reason to get through all that.

 

[my_key]

Is medicine the right path for me?
13(4,6)-->63

Hi Rose
Arriving late for this thread to give a few words on the above oracle. This is really a great question to be asking yourself, not the Yi but yourself. It was a pleasure to live with you through these difficult times, you have so many talents and such determination, however reading the thread seems to give a picture with a smidgeon of "stuckness".

In response to your question maybe the Yi is saying to you something like "Hey we've just been through a difficult time, things haven't worked out like we thought they would so lets take stock so that we can be better prepared for what the future brings.(63) Maybe we need to be thinking about the wider picture and look at some give and take. We've put the cat amongst the pidgeons but remember there is more than one way to skin a cat (13.4) Dig deep into your heart, search for the truth that lies within and recognise that you need to be gentle with yourself whatever you find there (13.6)"

Take Care
Mike

 

[lucia]

Rose.........

It is the highest form of myself that I can give to society. I yearn for my life to be more than just being in it. I know it is 4 years of study – only to start with, it takes at least 10 years to be a fully fledged doctor. Yet I am excited about it. I have tried not wanting to do medicine. Yet after more than10 years, it keeps surfacing and I only feel more passionate about it.

you don't need to ask the i ching if medicine is the right path for you. You answer your own question when you describe how it affects you - it is obviously the right path for you. You have what it takes and I say go for it girl.

I see why Ginnie suggests a group but while it is nice if you've got one it can be a hindrance too and you don't need it. Sometimes it is ok to just bury yourself in something and see where it goes and anyway med students seem to group themselves (sometimes to a worrying extent in the bar round the corner from the teaching hospital).

Interviews for things you really want are hell and at that level it is very common to flunk them the first time. It is seen as a sign of strength in a candidate to try again and not give up too easy. Love Hilary's tale though.......

Why didnt I get thru at this institution?
18 (1,2,3,4,6) --> 51

well you have set youself a higher goal but it was self sabotage and nerves........
now you need to get over the nervous stuff and work on what you need to do to handle interviews both, as Hilary suggested, in terms of your own internal "self undermining" and in good old fashioned technique.

Is medicine the right path for me?
13(4,6)-->63

yes it is but don't give in to doubts and keep a cool head because although it will be a tough act you will join the hippocratic fellowship eventually

Will I do med in 2011?
61(1,2,6) -->8

looks like it to me - it is a calling after all but prepare and don't make a drama out of it.

I personally don't ask another question whenever 8 pops up - I understand from others that that is a mistranslation and for me it seems to muddy the waters but I did laugh when I saw that you got 41 because my understanding of 41 has been based on seeing it as a crucible - for reducing and concentrating essences - alchemy style!

Flunking an interview you have worked so hard for is always crap but it does say work on what has been spoiled - get over the shock and nerves get working on interview techniques as well as the academic stuff. See the last interview as a practice run.

So your readings echo your passion and remind you to temper it with reason that's cool.......... go for it and good luck.

Lucia

 

[ginnie]

H41: Something needs to be cleared

I personally don't ask another question whenever 8 pops up - I understand from others that that is a mistranslation and for me it seems to muddy the waters but I did laugh when I saw that you got 41 because my understanding of 41 has been based on seeing it as a crucible - for reducing and concentrating essences - alchemy style!
Lucia

That's interesting.

I don't have a cell phone and once asked Yi if I should buy one. The response was H41 unchanging. I took that to mean, "Dead loss financially; decrease your involvement."

Lucia was saying above that H41 unchanging can also mean allow yourself to be reduced and changed, as if in a crucible. Someone said make the sacrifice and you will succeed.

Can H41 unchanging can mean diametrically opposite things? Make the sacrifice seems to be saying "Go." While decrease your involvement, seems to be saying "Do not go."

H41 can mean a decline, a decrease in resources, a decline of the life force itself. It is said to be a time to modify extreme emotional reactions and also avoid expenditures. In addition, the Wing translation says: "Before things will change successfully, a certain economy must be reached in the intensity of your emotions."

According to another source I read once, H41 means that there is something that needs to be cleared before actions can be taken. That makes sense of both interpretations above and reconciles them.

There's some internal stuff that has to be cleared before further actions can be taken. That's how I read these lines.

Working with Yi always takes us deeper.

Rose, you know our thoughts are with you . . .

 

[Trojina]

That's interesting.

I don't have a cell phone and once asked Yi if I should buy one. The response was H41 unchanging. I took that to mean, "Dead loss financially; decrease your involvement."

Lucia was saying above that H41 unchanging can also mean allow yourself to be reduced and changed, as if in a crucible. Someone said make the sacrifice and you will succeed.

Can H41 unchanging can mean diametrically opposite things? Make the sacrifice seems to be saying "Go." While decrease your involvement, seems to be saying "Do not go."

H41 can mean a decline, a decrease in resources, a decline of the life force itself. It is said to be a time to modify extreme emotional reactions and also avoid expenditures. In addition, the Wing translation says: "Before things will change successfully, a certain economy must be reached in the intensity of your emotions."

According to another source I read once, H41 means that there is something that needs to be cleared before actions can be taken. That makes sense of both interpretations above and reconciles them.

. . .

Yup I've been thinking about that issue in 41 too after receiving it unchanging consecutively over things I didn't get., like jobs applied for etc. I am actually beginning to think it isn't always that one makes a sacrifice in order to move forward but that the object of the question is what you have to give up . I think if you ask a "will i get..." type question 41 unchanging is in my experience pretty much a no. I don't think its always 'make a sacrifice and you will get it', but rather 'sacrifice this idea of getting' you probably don't need it as much as you think, hence decrease passion over it, the sacrifice is afterall quite small in the end. But yes in the end its ultimately leaving space to grow elsewhere..the fact one loses this opportunity leaves room for another

BTW I'm saying this out of context of Roses situation just wanted to pick up on your comment about taking 41 in very different ways. I used to think it meant 'sacrifice something for this goal' and now i see it more as sacrifice the goal itself and diminish your passion over the goal

 

[lucia]

Hmm...........

Ginnie

I don't have a cell phone and once asked Yi if I should buy one. The response was H41 unchanging. I took that to mean, "Dead loss financially; decrease your involvement."

I think that is a rather simplistic view of 41 although decreasing involvement can be part of it but in Rose's query that begs the question as to what is "it". Have a look at some of the glossaries such as Bradfords. Distilling and condensing are two of the (many) offerings. What was alchemy about? Reducing things to their essences to find gold no?

what happens when the mountain sits on the lake? It can create instability in the form of landslides etc or it can produce a spring or even a hidden stash of water for later.

heylise

Get rid of all conditioning and forms. You think you need them for being present in the world, for being visible, being you. But what they do is hiding you. They hide your soul, your essence, your creativity, and they can even destroy all this.
If you dare to be your naked self, you will be amazed how great and rich it is.

what does the text say in its various translations (some of which are very iffy)? It is actually very positive and talks about reducing in a way that doesn't cause the sources of things to fail. But I, like Trojan, question what exactly that means.

In your case I would never of seen 41 as no, definitely don't get a phone - it could be taken in various ways......... a phone will reduce your hassle or get a phone if you need it or so on or decrease your hang ups about phones. or or or or .........

I think in Rose's question Willowfox nailed 41 nicely. And I think one has to take all into account including the intelligence and passion of the querent and their question.

Would you really abandon something you are so passionate about and so qualified for and so motivated for and is so interesting with loads of potential just because you threw an i ching 41 in response to a question that previously had an 8 as part of the answer? Isn't that the same as those people who ask the ching to do their thinking for them 'cos they ain't listening when their boyfriend says bye bye?

But my comment about 41 was a light aside........

Lucia was saying above that H41 unchanging can also mean allow yourself to be reduced and changed, as if in a crucible. Someone said make the sacrifice and you will succeed.

I said no such thing......... I first said I don't buy into this ask again thing with 8 and then I was just playing with the symbol of a crucible and alchemy as the forerunners of medicine. Nada mas. Nothing more.

I also like what Bradford has to say about 41 by the way...

But 30 years of journals tells me there is more to 41 than just give up. And that is where the forum becomes interesting to me as I slowly go back through those journals and can then bounce them off others.

I wrote briefly in the reading circle about getting 32.4 for something "no game in the field".......... oh but there very definitely was game in the field and I caught it - glad I didn't get too into what I originally thought the ching was answering or I would have been done for.

I have 2 good friends who are doctors. One is a consulltant neurologist and the other has just shifted from general medicine to peadiatrics. The latter is an Afghan refugee who had to do his studies twice in order to be accepted in the UK and had no support what-so-ever. The are both passionate about their work - you have to be or you don't survive it - and they have both contributed marvellous things to the world in one way or another. And they are both happy and content with their lot.

The neurologist runs away regularly with Medicines son Fronteras and runs women's clinics in Africa - she says it makes a change from brains and it makes her happy.

Me ex husband is a pro saxaphone player and composer who has found fame, fortune and respect through his work. But it took him 20 years to get anywhere and he never deviated from his path. Which, as the mother of his kids, meant abject poverty when we were young. But even I, as the long-suffering ex would never have councilled him to give up. It was obviously his vocation and how could I argue with that. He made his decisions about career when he was nine years old!! and his music still makes me and a lot of other people very happy.

What I learned from him is that the people who are blessed are the ones who find their groove early on - who have a direction! If you don't have that you can witter about like a child wondering what you are going to do when you grow up until you are 70.

I love quietly passionate, dynamic, somewhat driven people - channelled wisely it is an amazing force to contend with and oh so creative. I work in a profession where putting words like obsessive and driven on your CV will get interest... people who don't work like that are amazed that these things are seen as a plus.

People who give up at the first knock back don't have what it takes. However, the period after that knock back is a vulnerable time because part of achieving these goals is self belief and an interview cock up hammers that for a while, hence a part of the process is to question.

Rose has done that and without the ching, as I said, she answered her own question loud and clear and in my opinion, delightfully.

So-called "western medicine" is not so "western" either - that is just another piece of inherited colonial bigotry that underpinned "our" sense of superiority. What counts as the contemporary pharmacopea, for example was mostly plundered from (in particular) a mix of comparative Muslim and Hindu sources and they were into academic comparative studies centuries before the "west". That's why the obsession with intellectual property rights in these things is so obscene.

I also think 18.6 is quite vocational - but that's another story.

Lucia

 

[Trojina]

Hmm...........
.

What I learned from him is that the people who are blessed are the ones who find their groove early on - who have a direction! If you don't have that you can witter about like a child wondering what you are going to do when you grow up until you are 70.

I love quietly passionate, dynamic, somewhat driven people - channelled wisely it is an amazing force to contend with and oh so creative. I work in a profession where putting words like obsessive and driven on your CV will get interest... people who don't work like that are amazed that these things are seen as a plus.

People who give up at the first knock back don't have what it takes. However, the period after that knock back is a vulnerable time because part of achieving these goals is self belief and an interview cock up hammers that for a while, hence a part of the process is to question.

Rose has done that and without the ching, as I said, she answered her own question loud and clear and in my opinion, delightfully.



I also think 18.6 is quite vocational - but that's another story.

Lucia

I don't agree with that at all. Some people find a particular direction early on, some don't because their way does not include slotting into a preexisiting socially recognised career path. IMO 18.6 may often suggest a calling but often it is above and beyond the rules and restrictions of existing pathways to serve that calling. For example one may have a calling to serve through healing in some form but that does not mean it has to take the form of following a particular path through med school. In my opinion 18.6 is more than that...but also 18.6 may mean not appearing to have success in the outer form of qualifications etc.

The place you work sounds dreadful to me...buts thats another story