Love

[donato]

I don’t know if I choose the right section of this forum, anyway here is my question: considering that I-Ching was meant as a kind of spiritual guidance, isn’t it odd that we don’t find an hexagram for “Love”? I have thought about it many times and my guess is that it may be there but disguised with another name. One possible candidate could be: N° 16, Enthusiasm. Any other ideas?
Donato

(P.S.
I'm not using "love" here in the sense of a "love affair" but meaning the supreme spiritual force who can make this world a wonderful place to live in.)

 

[anemos]

the whole book is about 'love' ... imho

 

[bradford]

I'd have to say the most specific ones are 8, 13, 31 and 37.
But if it's about giving your best to provide for others, I'd add 48 & 50.

 

[iams girl]

53

"On the mountain, a tree." From a small seed growing, changing, renewing, coming into its own and all the while responding to earthly and heavenly forces and providing nourishment and shelter for all. That's love to me.

 

[donato]

Thanks for your contribution

Thanks to all who have answered my question. Now I have some ideas from which to start a new enquiry into the book.

Anemos: it would be interesting to hear a more detailed explanation of your point of view.

Bradford: 8 gets very near to what I had thought. Unity and compassion are all involved in love. Actually I have obtained this hexagram several times.

I have obtained N°13 too but specifically to warn me about bad company (which proved true).

31 is something which puzzled me a number of times. Dealing with man/woman relationship seemed not relevant to my question. I’ll have to reconsider this response.

37, now that you tell me, is surely connected with love, but at the time I had received this hex I was misled by the Confucian idea of family based on duty and roles rather than love.

50, I would never have associated a pot (a material object) with love! Yet, re-reading now Wilhelm’s text I can see that love may be involved there. Another hex to be reconsidered.

48, so simple and yet so elusive. I had thought of life energy, mental nourishment or as such but of course love is nourishing and inexhaustible. The only thing which I still don’t understand is the sentence:
“The town may be changed, But the well cannot be changed.”
Any clue?

Iams girl:
Of course we can see love as the force behind the growing of a tree but each time I received this hex in the context of my readings it referred to the unfolding of the events.

What I wanted to find out starting this thread was something related to a specific question of mine: “How should I tackle this situation?” “How can this problem be solved?”
The response was N° 16, Enthusiasm and so I supposed that it might mean love…

 

[RindaR]

The Well is that still small space within us where we connect to the infinite. Yi may be considered the gateway to one such well. It never changes, yet it is there and provides for our needs in the outer world, the town, which never stays the same.

~rinda

 

[anemos]

Nothing really profound , donato. Just asked the opposite question, ie "which hex is not about love" and couldn't find one. Even the more 'irrelevant' are about some kind of love.

Note sure tho what you mean by "wonderful world". Thinking of 11.3 and the truth of it... a gift of 'love'...that way all the book is about love ; about being human ; our strenghts , weaknesses, limitations, beauties. .so, in some ways, yi helps us to love again, to undo the split, to return to Eden...

Thats how i see yi, when in good mood...when in bad dont ask, lol

 

[Tohpol]

Perhaps the I Ching offers its teachings as a means to know ourselves so that we can make conscious choices to grow. After all, if we don't know ourselves how can we know the true nature of love? In that sense, maybe every Hexagram is about accumulating the energy of knowledge which can then be applied and tested so that we can not only begin to discern objective love in the outer world, but actually embody it within.

What I wanted to find out starting this thread was something related to a specific question of mine: “How should I tackle this situation?” “How can this problem be solved?”
The response was N° 16, Enthusiasm and so I supposed that it might mean love…

16 is also about self-deception. So, one could say, before we can love unconditionally, we must recognise and shed illusion in all its various forms.

 

[anemos]

Donato,

You asked me to elaborate my initial response and was not easy to do it because at the same time was preoccupied with the drangons of hex 1. Hex and its dragons appeared when i read this thread... did everything to understand why, imagined riding them to see where they would get me.... everything apart going to the book and just read the text. Gods must have seen was desperate i was and send a dragon bee to help me pointing the book !!! Thanks god!!!!

Maybe if you take a look at the text of hex1 you will find something resonates with your question.it talks about love.

 

[anemos]

from Wilhelm's hex 1

Another line of speculation goes still further in separating the words “sublime,” “success,” “furthering,” “perseverance,” and parallels them with the four cardinal virtues in humanity.

• To sublimity, which, as the fundamental principle, embraces all the other attributes, it links love.
• To the attribute success are linked the mores, which regulate and organize expressions of love and thereby make them successful.
• The attribute furthering is correlated with justice, which creates the conditions in which each receives that which accords with his being, that which is due him and which constitutes his happiness.
• The attribute perseverance is correlated with wisdom, which discerns the immutable laws of all that happens and can therefore bring about enduring conditions.

 

[donato]

All the book is about love

Note sure tho what you mean by "wonderful world".

Well a world without conflicts would be wonderful, wouldn't it?
Unless you are the kind of person who thinks that conflicts in human relationships are necessary...

Thinking of 11.3 and the truth of it... a gift of 'love'..

Yes, I can understand that, and also Topal explained it in a nice way.

I'm realizing that you all here have a wider penetration/understanding of the meaning of the hexagrams than me. 11.3, for instance to me talks about the acceptance of some unavoidable reality and about surrendering to the natural laws and so be content with everything which happens to you, which by the way reminds me of the Hindu concept of equanimity: i.e. to be beyond the opposites.
I suppose true love will take you beyond all opposites...

 

[donato]

Perhaps the I Ching offers its teachings as a means to know ourselves so that we can make conscious choices to grow. After all, if we don't know ourselves how can we know the true nature of love? In that sense, maybe every Hexagram is about accumulating the energy of knowledge which can then be applied and tested so that we can not only begin to discern objective love in the outer world, but actually embody it within.

I wholly agree with that. Self-knowledge is fundamental for discovery what true love is.

16 is also about self-deception. So, one could say, before we can love unconditionally, we must recognise and shed illusion in all its various forms.

This meaning eludes me... after reading your reply I consulted Michael Graeme's text and actually in the key words I found: Self-indulgence, Delusion. How this can match the general positive orientation of the hex is really beyond my understanding! -)

Well to go back to my initial question "how should I tackle this situation?" now I think I was completely wrong in supposing that the response I got: "16" with no changing lines, could mean love. I had arrived at that supposition following a line of thoughts which had nothing to do with the I-Ching and which was too far fetched. To stick to Michael Graeme I think a more likely interpretation could be: "Resonance, Preparedness, Divining the Way", which fits well with my situation.
But perhaps I should pay attention not to create illusions about the situation and so to deceive myself...
humm... I see that there is much more in a I-Ching response that what I had thought! -)

Thanks for your contribution,
Donato

 

[donato]

Donato,

You asked me to elaborate my initial response and was not easy to do it because at the same time was preoccupied with the drangons of hex 1. Hex and its dragons appeared when i read this thread... did everything to understand why, imagined riding them to see where they would get me....

It seems that - as Bob Dylan said: "the answer is blowing in the wind (= anemos)" -)
Riding the dragons! Like a taoist sage! If that is the outcome of attending this web site I really must connect to it more often! -) , well to be true dragons appeared to me too, long ago, in response to a question I have forgotten now, and unfortunately they were conflicting dragons, one leading to one direction and the other one to the opposite one. That was a wonderful description of my conflictual nature... and thinking of it now that could be the reason why I was speculating about love, the only factor that could solve this conflict...
Maybe you had a glimpse of my dragons...

everything apart going to the book and just read the text. Gods must have seen was desperate i was and send a dragon bee to help me pointing the book !!! Thanks god!!!!

Maybe if you take a look at the text of hex1 you will find something resonates with your question.it talks about love.

Hex 1 is a huge challenge! I think I gave too many things for granted and never delved into the implications of this creative force. Furthermore I purposely avoided to study I-Ching up to a point, on one hand because I had not time and on the other hand because I kind of felt that in my relationship with the oracle (i.e.the inner or hidden layers of the mind) it was better to stay simple and not to put too many things at stake.
I wonder now if that feeling was correct...

I'll do as you suggest with hex 1 but I must remind myself that the response I got to my question was N°16.
If you read the answer I gave to Topal I have now found a new and better interpretation to this response.

Thanks again for your help,
Donato

 

[anemos]

Well a world without conflicts would be wonderful, wouldn't it?
Unless you are the kind of person who thinks that conflicts in human relationships are necessary...

.

Hard to imagine that, but I have sang the song.
I agree with some points topal makes. Yes, 16 can be about a tuning oneself to something imaginary but I have seen love too through 16. It depends.
I need images, animating, so ,Riding the dragon, is my way of attuning myself with the reading and hearing the dragons voice. It's like being the dancer and the dance.

 

[donato]

I need images, animating, so ,Riding the dragon, is my way of attuning myself with the reading and hearing the dragons voice. It's like being the dancer and the dance.

This is a nice way to describe one's own mind functioning. Of course I was joking but at the same time I felt that there was the possibility that you had an intuition of something (N°1 and its dragons) I needed to take into consideration. As I have said N°1 has always been a great puzzle to me and it came out a number of times regarding crucial crisis of mine. I'm a lazy person so I must confess that I neglected a serious study of the matter. I know that I can't force myself -it wouldn't work anyway - but I took a mental note to read all the available translations I have got about the meaning of the creative in relation to our attitudes or activity. Perhaps I was misled by the Chinese name "Heaven" which made me think of something distant from us and which we poor mortal can only look in reverence and heavenly awe...

Images... yes we need good images which stimulate our dull brains!

 

[knotxx]

If I were trying to name a hex to go with Love in the big sense --"and the greatest of these is love," that kind of love--I'd say 19.

 

[donato]

If I were trying to name a hex to go with Love in the big sense --"and the greatest of these is love," that kind of love--I'd say 19.

Hello knot,
welcome in this discussion.
As I have said my knowledge of I-Ching is limited but I want to try to understand your point of view:

Surely "the greatest of these is love". I particularly like this expression because love is the key to all the improvement we can make. Without love all our actions often lead nowhere or even produce the opposite result.
19, means "becoming great" so I guess your line of reasoning was: the only or best way to become great is through love. I hope I have interpreted your thoughts correctly. Yes, I think that in some cases it may be so.
But as I see this issue, the whole problem of talking about the meaning of the hexagrams I mean, we need a concrete and specific question (and so a defined context) to relate that meaning with. I have some difficulty in seeing general meanings in hexagrams, that is my limitation I suppose, so I often depend on commentaries for deciding which meaning among the many possible suits most with my question.

Anyway your suggestion proves what Anemos said: it seems that in all the book we find references to love.
I'll keep on digging...

 

[RindaR]

I think I gave too many things for granted and never delved into the implications of this creative force. Furthermore I purposely avoided to study I-Ching up to a point, on one hand because I had not time and on the other hand because I kind of felt that in my relationship with the oracle (i.e.the inner or hidden layers of the mind) it was better to stay simple and not to put too many things at stake.[/COLOR]
I wonder now if that feeling was correct...

I'm guessing you correctly noted the feeling. Yi (and the world it reflects) are perfect mirrors. I suspect you have grown considerably since then and may now be ready to continue on your path. :bows:

 

[donato]

I'm guessing you correctly noted the feeling. Yi (and the world it reflects) are perfect mirrors. I suspect you have grown considerably since then and may now be ready to continue on your path. :bows:

Thank you for the compliment Rinda, but I don't know if I deserve it.
I've had some intuitions - like many of you I suppose - but I still I feel like: 56.4: "Nine in the fourth place means:
The wanderer rests in a shelter.
He obtains his property and an ax.
My heart is not glad."

(He is persistently conscious of being a stranger in a strange land.)

The path is long and I'm old. I feel I'll probably never reach the destination...

 

[anemos]

The path is long and I'm old. I feel I'll probably never reach the destination...

Need to mention the saying about the destination and the journey ?



Sorry for not responding to everything you said to me... preoccupied with some other issues, but really enjoyed the exchange.

En-joy !

 

[donato]

Need to mention the saying about the destination and the journey ?

Ah! I knew someone was going to raise that issue...
The journey IS the destination... but looking around our battered world one cannot help feeling that there is still so much to do...

"Sorry for not responding to everything you said to me... "

Don't worry. I can distinguish between silence and silence...
by the way tomorrow I'll be leaving again to spend few days at the seaside, so it will not be possible for me to reply to posts.