Memorizing Hexagram 16. Yu / Enthusiasm

[bruce_g]

Looking at how 13.3 changes to 62. All those details would dampen an elephant.

Good point. Like the inner critic, giving all the reasons why you can't do it.

 

[bruce_g]

Looking at how 13.3 changes to 62. All those details would dampen an elephant.

erm, you meant 16.3, I think.

 

[Trojina]

Got 16,3 a few days back. I was trying to make a decision to break with something and all along the Yi and the outer evidence and my gut feeling was it was definately a good idea to make a break with this thing. I just found it hard to break off, so asked 'how shall I go about this break' thinking of things like when would be the right time etc and got 16,3. Yes the message was pretty clear to me i was being a bit of a wuss about making this decision and to just get on with it, so yes I agree this line tends to come up when initiative is needed and one is still tempted to prevaricate, sit around and wait for the right time etc when one needs to act on ones own will, be assertive, not be tempted to wait for a cue from others or the environment.

 

[rosada]

Drat those details!
Thanks, Bruce.

Your 16.3 toss would be a good one for the eventual Real I Ching thread, Trojan!

 

[rosada]

16.4
* Nine in the fourth place means:
The source of enthusiasm.
He achieves great things.
Doubt not.
You gather friends around you,
As a hair clasp gathers the hair.

 

[martin]

16.4
The individual is ready (and encouraged) to emerge from the whole (Neptune) as an individual and assert a 'self' (Mars).

If there is anything to the speculative link between line 4 and Cancer/Capricorn, the subject of line 4 would be part of a family tradition (Cancer) or a professional establishment (Capricorn). (these two were often closely related in older societies)
And that is perhaps easier for Neptune, because it doesn't need to create or simulate so much 'self' in that case, it can act as part of or as a representative of a 'we'.

But of course this 'we' is anyway implied in the traditional understanding of line 4, where the subject is one of the 'ministers'.

 

[rosada]

Hmm..I can see where fooling around with the astrological ideas could be quite seductive...

I'm consideirng how Mars is exhaulted in Capricorn, meaning it's in a position where it's natural tendancies are well expressed. For example, Mars is a spark of fire that can quickly burn itself out. In Capricorn the energy is rationed and preserved and thus transformed into a guiding light for the whole community. Neptune is exhaulted in Cancer, meaning random energies, conciousness, can be recognized, grounded, given a home, in the concept of Family. So a good leader and willing followers in 16.4.

Martin, you were saying how here the individual is ready and encouraged to emerge and assert self. Perhaps an example would be of a small child who suddenly dares to take their first step. The small child is a part of a loving encouraging family, but they still have to assert their self.

I'm also seeing how this asserting in not just asserting the self to be equal with the group - the child learning to walk like everyone else - but also as emerging to be the spokesperson for the entire group. Like Mars in Capricorn is the head of the family, while Neptune in Cancer represents all the individual members that now become a family because someone - the Mars in Capricorn - sees "We are family". It's as if out of this nebulous group of individuals, one individual clearly sees the vision and because of his vision, all the other individuals become a family, that is, become apart of his vision, like hairs encircled by a clasp.

 

[rosada]

Looking at 16 so far:
16.1 as
Neptune in Aries and Mars in Libra?
The vague Neptune influence imagining connections but Mars in Libra is just contrary enough not to show up at all.

16.2
Neptune in Taurus so the vision is real for a moment but with
Mars in Scorpio it will change as soon as you see it.

16.3
Neptune in Gemini sees all the possible choices and can't decide.
Mars in Sagittarius sees even more.

16.4
Neptune in Cancer as a loving support group.
Mars is Capricorn leading them all.

ooh, this could be addictive.

 

[martin]

Yes, these are addictive games.

But this is interesting, you are doing something that I didn't try yet: you place the planet that corresponds to the bottom trigram (Neptune in this hex) in one of the first six signs and the other planet (here Mars) in one of the last six.
So for 16.1 you have Neptune in Aries and Mars in Libra. But for the first line of hex 24 (trigrams of hex 16 swapped) it would be Mars in Aries and Neptune in Libra.

That makes sense because the last six signs are more collective or relational and so is the top trigram of a hexagram, I think.
Good idea!

 

[martin]

Perhaps an example would be of a small child who suddenly dares to take their first step. The small child is a part of a loving encouraging family, but they still have to assert their self.

Yes, hex 16 also reminds me of the renaissance when people came out of the middle ages and (re)discovered individuality.
It may be just my imagination (Neptune!) but when I listen to Vivaldi - the dancing priest - it is as if I hear their enthousiasm, it's the same enthousiasm as that of a child that discovers that it can walk on its own.
The pristine ego, it is so beautiful.

 

[lightofreason]

IC+ 16.4

Line 4
"Through one's own conduct one generates a sense of enthusiasm in others such that they are attracted."

 

[lightofreason]

See figure 4 in:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/esoter.html

 

[rosada]

There was an earthquake the day Vivaldi was born, Thunder rising from the Earth?

Martin, I thought I was just following your directions, so that's fun that it worked!

 

[rosada]

16.5
Six in the fifth place means:
Persistantly ill and still does not die.

Here enthusiasm is obstructed. A man under constant pressure, which prevents him from breathing freely. However, this pressure has its advantage - it prevents him from consuming his powers in empty enthusiasm. Thus constant pressure can actually serve to keep one alive.
-Wilhelm

 

[rosada]

The persistent illness of the six in the fifth place is due to the fact that it rests upon a hard line. That it nevertheless does not die is due to the fact that the middle has not yet been passed.

This place is actually that of the ruler. But since the firm line, the nine in the fourth place, as the source of enthusiasm unites all around it, the fifth is deprived of enthusiasm.

The fact that the line is at the top of the nuclear trigram K'an, which represents heart disease, accounts for the idea that the person is chronically ill. But since his central position keeps him from becoming desperate because of this, he lives on and on.
-Wilhelm

 

[martin]

There was an earthquake the day Vivaldi was born, Thunder rising from the Earth?

Martin, I thought I was just following your directions, so that's fun that it worked!

Creative misunderstanding!

Vivaldi - earthquake, thunder from the earth, and in the Four Seasons he composed music of nature, imitating birds, etcetera.

He was a sun in Pisces, btw, and he did have a wide conjunction of Mars and Neptune (orb about 7 degrees) in Aquarius.

 

[martin]

16.5
Makes me think of the former queen (line 5) of the Netherlands (Juliana) who had a mystical nature and always wanted to stay in the backgound and be 'nothing special'. But she was the destined heir of the throne. She had to play her role as the queen and behave as somebody who was not like others, as something special.

In line 5 the king/queen has mastered the art of balancing Neptune and Mars, of being the Ocean and acting as an individual, but he or she longs for the Ocean.
Is that the 'chronical illness'? It might feel like he or she, as a self, lives in exile.
But he or she will not die: this is not a death wish although it may seem so. It's a longing for the selfless state, for the lost unity.

 

[rosada]

16.5 = Neptune in Leo - Mars in Aquarius.

Neptune, the planet of music and vision in Leo the sign of creative manefestation suggests the desire to manevest one's vision.

Mars in Aquarius is erratic energy that hates to be boxed in.

Thus the suggestion of one with a vision they would like to manefest immediately, and may feel extremely frustrated with slow process of creation. Yet their vision keeps them going.

Vivaldi had asthma as a child. Persistantly ill, but did not die.
Perhaps he was frustrated being a child and not yet in full possession of his creative abilities. Meanwhile, his father - also a musician - got all the enthusiasm. (Althugh I understand the relationship was a positive one.)

 

[martin]

Interesting, we emphasize different sides of this line.
Although they are related. Frustration can easily lead to a longing for something oceanic (not necessarily mystical, it could be anything Neptunian, sleep, withdrawal, drink ..)

My take on it seems a bit (?) unconventional.
I would like to ask the ancient authors what they had in mind with this 'illness'. But unfortunately I lost their phone numbers ..

 

[lightofreason]

IC+ 16

Line 5
"A ruler under pressure(illness). The energy of enthusiasm is used for survival. Through perseverance death is avoided."

Line 5 in all hexagrams is 'ruled' by properties of hex 8 where they reflect the attraction of the king/court. The hexagram dynamic is "with/from foreseeing/enthusing (16) comes congregating (45) with its focus on being influencial in the context of devotion and that done through celebration of faith (and so prayer). What is suggested in the line comments is associating foresight and enthusiasm with the act of prayer such that illness and death is avoided through prayer or prayer-like behaviours that focus on dealing with what is to come - be it to encourage it or delay it.

This also gets into the use of rituals (the celebration of faith in 45) as that includes the fast/feast dynamics of the 45/12 pair (and touches on feed a fever, fast a cold -- or is it the other way around?!)

From the XOR realm, 45 represents the 8-ness of 16, how 16 manifests the uniting nature of 08, 08s unconditional attraction. Thus the 08-ness is described by analogy to 45 where the vibe of the congregation being influencial in the context of devotion to another.

The 'negative' aspects are in issues of surprise in a context of fear (16), issues of anticipation of wrong-doing in a context of fear (45) and issues of rejection in a context of fear (08).

Chris.

 

[rosada]

I've been fooling around with tarot cards pulling out the ones that match the planets :

Neptune -The Hanged Man
Mars - The Tower (some say The Fool)

and placing them next to the cards that represent the signs:
Leo - Strength
Aquarius - The Star.

This gives a visual to spark ideas.

Hey Martin, Mars in Aquarius is the essence of Unconventional. Do wish you'd find those phone numbers though.

Chris, your association of Fear and Prayer and Faith with this line inspires ideas.. I'm thinking the illness is not one of the spirit fighting to stay in the body, but rather, the result of one having had a compelling vision of the Higher Relms (through music?) now wishes to live in that rarified world, but the body can't jump that far.

(btw, I've heard it "Stuff a cold - starve a fever," but I'm not sure if either works.)

 

[rosada]

16.6
Six at the top means:
Deluded enthusiasm
But if after completion one changes,
There is no blame.

It is a bad thing for a man to let himself be deluded by enthusiasm. But if this enthusiasm has run it's course, and he is still capable of changing, he is freed of error. A sober awakening from false enthusiasm is quite possible and very favorabe.

Deluded enthusiasm in a high place: how can this last?

A weak line at the high point of enthusiasm - this leads to delusion. But since the line also stands at the top of the upper trigram Chen, whose character is movement, a factor to be reconed with is that this situation has no permanence.

-Wilhelm

 

[rosada]

ENTHUSIASM. It furthers one to install helpers
And to set armies marching.

Thus the kings made music
In order to honor merit,
Ane to offer it with splendor
To the Supreme Diety,
Inviting the ancestors to be present.

Enthusiasm that expresses itself brings misfortune.

Firm as a rock. Not a whole day.
Perseverance brings good fortune.

Enthusiasm that looks upward creates remorse.
Hesitation brings remorse.

The source of enthusiasm.
He achieves great things.
Doubt not.
You gather friends around you
As a hair clasp gathers hair.

Persistently ill, and still does not die.

Deluded enthusiasm.
But if after completion one changes,
There is no blame.
___

In case it would be useful to read the whole hexagram without any commentary.

 

[martin]

Tarot! What goes with what? Thierens gave the following associations:

Leo = The Hierophant
Aquarius = Strength
Mars = the Devil
Neptune = the World
(He understands this card as representing the ethereal world, "being the bearer of light .. the universal womb of the material or physical world")

 

[martin]

16.6
I noticed only just now that Wilhelm and Legge seem to have a quite different understanding of this hexagram. As far as I see, Legge never uses the word enthousiasm. Instead he talks about 'harmony and happy contentment' and he translates the 6th line as 'with darkened mind devoted to the pleasure and satisfaction of the time'.

That would indicate a lack of enthousiasm (and activity) and not too much of it, as Wilhelm suggests.

Richmond has something similar: 'resting even his needs , he will have no direction to flow. But they will be the first to awaken.'

Mars in Pisces, the sign of Neptune, drowns in the ocean?

 

[lightofreason]

04 of cups covered by the IC PAIR of 16,35

For others see:

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~ddiamond/taro2.html

 

[peacecat]

Hi Everyone, today I asked the question: What is my greatest strength and I received Enthusiasm 16: 2 into Deliverance 40.

It's interesting to me that some of the different translations name the hexagram differently. Here are the examples I found: John Blofeld calls this hexaram Repose. Here is his note on his choice: "The usual meaning of this character (YU) is 'beforehand' or 'happiness'. In the English translation of Wilhelm's version, it appears as 'enthusiasm'. 'Repose' was suggested by the Chinese experts who kindly vetted this manuscript. At first I felt hesistant about adopting it, until I realized that, where it is used favourably, it must be understood as the kind of mental repose which follows absolute confidence that the action now being taken is the right one. In lines one, three and six, however, it clearly means failure to act when action is essential; in line five, failure is owing to incapacity." It is interesting to note that repose is really the opposite of enthusiasm by definition and yet the two are linked here.

Thomas Cleary calls hexagram 16 Joy which ehoes Enthusiasm. He writes: "Joy is happiness. As for the qualities of the hexagram, above is thunder, active, and below is earth, compliant: acting in accord with the time, active yet also compliant,it is therefore called joy."

Stephen Karcher calls hexagram 16 Providing For / Provision " Prepare, collect what you need to meet the future, spontaneous, direct response, enthusiastic; enjoy, take pleasure."

Enthusiasm, Repose, Joy, Providing For / Provision

For my own reading I associated hexagram 16 with music, since I have recently returned to songwriting. Cleary translates the Commentary this way: "When thunder emerges the earth stirs; joy. Thus did the kings of yore make music to honor virtue, offering it in abundance to God, thereby to share it with their ancestors."

In Chinese culture honoring the ancestors is very important but where do ancestors fit in the Western mentality? When I pass a cemetary I say to myself "God bless those that came before." I guess, in my own way, that is honoring the ancestors but I guess it could also mean honoring the great men and women who have shape our history.

Making music to honor virtue and honor God and the ancestors who love virtue. Cleary states that virtue is rectitude and he defines rectitude as benevolence, courtesy, knowledge, justice and most importantly truthfulness. I try to keep these aspects in mind as general goals to follow in daily life, the practice of learning virtue and internalizing it. But really I see this hexagram as the joy from making and listening to music hexagram

In terms of changing into Deliverance (Release, Liberation, Loosening), it seems a natural transition from (16) thunder above earth to (40) to thunder and rain (release, nourishment). Perhaps in this case music is the cause of Deliverance.

 

[lightofreason]

IC+ 16.6

Line 6
"One must be wary of enthusiasm being, in fact, a facade; attractive but energy sapping. Changing course is advised."

The bounding/facading nature of fire is brought out here, as is the pruning focus of line 6 as it relates to 23. hex 35 covers bringing something into the light (and so the notion of 'progress' in Wilehelm etc) such that we can read the 'change' as "with/from foresight/enthusing comes bringing something into the light" and so being attractive etc - but this can be rubbish just as it can be something of value.

The fire trigram overall covers the expansive boundary and a focus on guidance/direction-setting. When in the top position it covers guidance doubled and so a focus on an ideology. This can be attractive but energy sapping and all 'show biz' - all that glitters is not necessarily gold; all that we enthuse about, covering the future possibles, is over-done.

Emotionally we have for 35 (and so the change of 16.6) (a) with/from fear comes acceptance (b) with/from devotion to another comes a sense of direction.

From the XOR realm, 35 as such reflects the 23-ness of 16. How 16 'prunes' in that it is particular in focus, it works on 'something' rather than being unconditional. (this pruning aspect is reflected in the need to cut back on the enthusing - to even change course etc)

 

[lightofreason]

It's interesting to me that some of the different translations name the hexagram differently.

All of the examples you quote are from individuals and as such reflect their personal perspectives combined with traditional etc.

Understanding the IC as being derived from self-referencing means we can get the IC to describe itself IN GENERAL and so cover the 'bedrock' upon which all of those unique interpretatations are built.

This description is in the form of a spectrum that gives us all of the properties and methods of each hexagram described by analogy to all of the others.

See the second (third?) post to this thread re some of these as well as a link to the spectrum.

Chris.

 

[rosada]

I'm seeing the music-inviting-the-ancestors-to-be-present aspect of this hexagram as refering to music's ability to allow one to connect with others. The National Anthem can unite a crowd of strangers. Chants induce a meditative state that causes participants to feel they actually are connecting with - hearing - angels.