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Memorizing the I Ching 26. Ta Ch'u / The Taming Power of the Great

rosada

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26. Ta Ch'u / The Taming Power of the Great

------
-- -- above KEN KEEPING STILL, MOUNTAIN
-- --
------
------ below CH'IEN THE CREATIVE, HEAVEN
------

The Creative is tamed by Ken, Keeping Still. This produces great power, a situation in contrast to that of the ninth hexagram, Hsiao Ch'u, THE TAMING POWER OF THE SMALL, in which the Creative is tamed by the Gentle alone. There one weak line must tame five strong lines, but here four strong lines are restrained by two weak lines; in addition to a minister, there is a prince, and the restraining power therefore is far stronger.

The hexagram has a threefold meaning, expressing different aspects of the concept "holding firm." Heaven within the mountain gives the idea of holding firm in the sence of holding together; the trigram Ken, which holds the trigram Ch'ien still, gives the idea of holding firm in the sence of caring for and nourishing. This last suggested by the fact that a strong line at the top, which is the ruler of the hexagram, is honored and tended as a sage. The third of these meanings also attaches specifically to this strong line at the top, which represents the sage.

The rulers of the hexagram are the six in the fifth place and the nine at the top. These are the lines referred to when it is said in the commentary on the Decision: "The firm ascends and honors the worthy."

The Sequence
When innocence is present, it is possible to tame. Hence there follows THE TAMING POWER OF THE GREAT.

Holding fast to heavenly virtue is the prerequisite for innocence. On the other hand, innocence is the indispensable condition for being able to hold fast to heavenly virtue.

Miscellaneous Notes

THE TAMING POWER OF THE GREAT depends on the time.

The movements of the two trigrams are toward each other. The Creative below presses powerfully upward, and Keeping Still above holds fast. The nuclear trigrams Chen and Tui also have a tendancy to rise, the upper more so than the lower. These are the latent forces that are intensified by the holding fast. The two weak lines occupying the ruler's and the minister's place restrain the strong lines below, while showing recognition and liberality toward the strong line above. This hexagram is the inverse of the preceding one.
 
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Sparhawk

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yicard26.jpg
 

dobro p

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Rosada, you've posted a five-line hexagram. Which makes it a pentagram, I think. C'mon - I want to talk about all six lines, not just five only.
 

Sparhawk

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We don't need the third line, anyway, they usually suck!! :rofl:

I propose we ban them... :D


L
 

getojack

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------

There you go, Dobro. Don't say I never gave you anything. :)
 
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jesed

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Hi Luis

I usualy like your postcards on the hexs.. but this one is not only lovely but spot on the core.

Thanks
 
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rosada

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Thank you, Oh Vigilant Observers! Actually, I think it was the first line that was
omitted, thus without your careful watchfulness we'd have never have been able to get the ball rolling! (Or mountain moving?)

Jesed,

I would really enjoy reading in words what what you see in this picture!

I"m seeing it as illustrating our small streams of individual awareness contributing to the Collective Unconcious, or Group Experience, that is then made available to all.

Anyone else?
 
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lightofreason

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26 The Taming Power of the Great
Holding Firm
In a context of perseverence we utilise discernment.

"TA CH'U -

TA : big, noble, important, very; orient the will toward a self-imposed goal, impose direction; ability to lead or guide your life..

CH'U : hoard, gather, retain, herd together; control, restrain; domesticate, tame, train; raise, feed, sustain, bring up. The ideogram: field and black, fertile black soil good for pastures, accumulated through retaining silt."ERANOS p319

Some pairs:

In the binary sequence hexagram 26 pairs with hexagram 11.
This pair focuses on issues of balance in a context of exaggeration, the exaggeration being in singlemindedness expressed by the trigram of heaven. Hexagram 11 has a focus on balance through harmonising through integrating. Hexagram 26 covers issues of differentiating where the focus is on retaining the elements of the past, traditions etc,, and so a focus on quality, on values (as reflected in the nature of the top trigram of 26, mountain) BUT with a warning in not becoming the past, the values as such are useful but should not replace or block development.

In the binary sequence hexagram 26 opposes hexagram 45.
In this pairing the 'big restraint' of 26 opposes the 'exaggeration' in celebration of 45.
At the LOCAL level we are dealing with an octet of hexagrams with the HEAVEN trigram as base. In this sequence hexagram 26, the focus upon holding firm, 'opposes' hexagram 43, spreading the word. More so, the hard core, sharp focus on 'spreading the word' is reflected in a more balanced format by the more 'subtle' focus on holding firm to traditions, a generally integrating nature in 26. ( I say general in that, when we zoom-in further to pairs so 11, 26 form a pair with 11 being integrating, 26 more differentiating).

In the traditional sequence hexagram 26 pairs with hexagram 25.
This pairing focuses on holding to one's convictions, be it by asserting them regardless of the consequences (25) or on a general sense of 'holding firm' to traditional perspectives (26). As such 25 is more 'personal', 26 more 'social'.

HOLDING FIRM:

25 : holding firm - through expressing personal beliefs, disentangle; 25 disentangling comes from a context described by hexagram 45 - congregating, celebrating

26 : holding firm - through staying with traditional beliefs; 26 hold firm comes out of a context described by hexagram 46 - entangling, pushing upwards


In the traditional sequence hexagram 26 opposes hexagram 39.
In going against the flow of things we often have to go against traditions (the obstructions of 39) as compared to holding firm to them (26 - and in so doing 'go against the flow of 'mindless' nature).
The generic properties of hexagram 26 reflect the mixing of the generic properties of hexagram 11 with the generic properties of hexagram 46.
A combination of a focus on harmonising (11) with a sense of becoming more entangled with things (46) is reflected in the 'holding firm' attitude of hexagram 26.

In the variations on a theme sequence, hexagram 26 complements hexagram 18.
In this pairing the overall focus is on traditions, where in 26 we hold firm to them and in 18 we ensure they are not corrupted.

Spectrum data:

26 infrastructure is described by analogy to generic characteristics of 46 and so a basic 'vibe' covering entanglements.

26 comes back to, starts with, characteristics of 18, a focus on some need to correct a 'corruption'.

26 gets its nourishment from a source described by analogy to the characteristics of 40 with its focus on augmentation.

From the outside 26 appearance is described by analogy to general characteristics of 07 - a focus on uniformity, 'military' structure. On the inside we see characteristics described by analogy to the general nature of 13 - a focus on loose associations of the 'like minded'.

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/x100111.html (click on the hexagram symbol for another page of information)

Chris.
 

Trojina

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"The taming power of the great" What does that mean ? I'm sure one of the reasons me and this hexagram have never understood one another is because it always has incomprehensible titles.

The taming power of the great what ? What is the 'great' referred to here ?

What does restraint have to do with heeding the words of antiquity ? Wilhem words on 26 just muddle me.
 

rosada

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Hi trojan,

I completed posting what Wilhelm has to say in his introduction above. I think it may give you some insights. Something about the lower trigram Chien, The Creative, pressing powerfully upward, and the upper trigram, Ken, Keeping Still, holding fast. So the urge to move forward is slowed down and tamed. Visualize a teacher telling The Innocent ( who says and does all these disruptive Unexpected things), "Sit quietly and think before you speak." (Interesting 27 is Corners of the Mouth and refers to speaking.)

The hexagram is called The Taming Power of the Great because there are two yin lines holding The Creative in check, thus the holding power is greater than hexagram 9. The Taming Power of the Small, where there is only one yin line holding back The Creative.

Just noticed that earlier we have Youthful Folly followed by Waiting. Sort of a similar pattern to Innocence followed by Taming Power of the Great. I mean, they both suggest impulsive action followed by a quiet time.
 
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getojack

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Hi trojan,

I completed posting what Wilhelm has to say in his introduction above. I think it may give you some insights. Something about the lower trigram Chien, The Creative, pressing powerfully upward, and the upper trigram, Ken, Keeping Still, holding fast. So the urge to move forward is slowed down and tamed. Visualize a teacher telling The Innocent ( who says and does all these disruptive Unexpected things), "Sit quietly and think before you speak." (Interesting 27 is Corners of the Mouth and refers to speaking.)

The hexagram is called The Taming Power of the Great because there are two yin lines holding The Creative in check, thus the holding power is greater than hexagram 9. The Taming Power of the Small, where there is only one yin line holding back The Creative.

Just noticed that earlier we have Youthful Folly followed by Waiting. Sort of a similar pattern to Innocence followed by Taming Power of the Great. I mean, they both suggest impulsive action followed by a quiet time.

I don't know about trojan, but that doesn't really help me understand it better at all. I hardly ever see anything more than a cursory relationship between the structural elements (trigrams, nuclears, yin/yang lines, etc.) and the text anyway. To me, they're like completely different animals (perhaps a horse, a bull and a boar :) ) What I think trojan was saying was that she doesn't see the relationship between the hexagram name, judgement, and line commentaries, forgetting about the structural elements of two yin and four yang. And that Wilhelm's translation and further commentary doesn't help explain it very well. And I would have to agree.
 

martin

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26. Saturn (Mountain) over Uranus (Heaven)

Astrology describes Uranus as inventive, original, unconventional, intuitive, possibly destructive, independent, eccentric, freedom loving, progressive, rebellious.
Saturn, on the other hand, is cautious, conservative, methodical, restrained, disciplined, patient, conventional.

Uranus is 'inside' Saturn here, Uranus is restrained (tamed) by Saturn and/or expresses itself in a Saturnian way or through Saturnian channels.

Examples:

- Militant rebels decide to lay down their arms and form a political party.

- Yijingers and astrologers do the same and are elected in parliament! :)

- Chris finally writes an article that meets academic writing standards and - hurray! - it is published in a scientific journal. :D

- Combustion engines and nuclear reactors. A potentially destructive process is 'tamed', i.e. controlled, slowed down. The result is a steady release of useful energy.

- Capturing/taming wild (dangerous) animals. And using them for labour or other purposes.

- Accumulation of energy (or something else) for later use. Here there is no channel yet, only restraint. The idea is "don't use it now, let it accumulate, build up, for a while".
If one is recuperating from an illness it could mean "stay quiet now, rest, first become stronger".
"Not eating at home brings good fortune" (WB). Is this an advice to eat varied food or does it mean "don't eat up yourself - or your finger nails - while you rest"? Or both? :)
 
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dobro p

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Trojan, getojack: think of it as Great Restraint, and it starts to make sense. Lines 4 and 5 illustrate this - the animal forces in those lines are greatly restrained, one externally, another 'internally' by altering it physically. The fact that cattle and boars are imaged in those lines gives you some idea of the force being dealt with - it's considerable, although line 5 images a wilder, more untamed force than line 4.

Think, for example, of somebody getting angry and biting their tongue so as not to say anything. Great Restraint. 26.
 

getojack

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Trojan, getojack: think of it as Great Restraint, and it starts to make sense. Lines 4 and 5 illustrate this - the animal forces in those lines are greatly restrained, one externally, another 'internally' by altering it physically. The fact that cattle and boars are imaged in those lines gives you some idea of the force being dealt with - it's considerable, although line 5 images a wilder, more untamed force than line 4.

Think, for example, of somebody getting angry and biting their tongue so as not to say anything. Great Restraint. 26.

Maybe, but that doesn't seem to fit with the Judgement, which basically says the opposite... that you need to cross that great water. Don't eat at home. Perseverance furthers.
 

rosada

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Perhaps The Judgement is giving advice on how to behave when one is trying to restrain the passions. Is the kid jumping up and down and bouncing off the walls?

PERSEVERANCE FURTHERS,
so don't tie him up, he's got to keep moving.
NOT EATING AT HOME BRINGS GOOD FORTUNE.
So send him over to the neighbors for a visit.
IT FURTHERS ONE TO CROSS THE GREAT WATER.
Better yet, send him on a trip across town.

In otherwords, perhaps the Judgement is telling wild unfocus energies can be tamed by being given them a focus, a job to do.
 

getojack

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Perhaps The Judgement is giving advice on how to behave when one is trying to restrain the passions. Is the kid jumping up and down and bouncing off the walls?

PERSEVERANCE FURTHERS,
so don't tie him up, he's got to keep moving.
NOT EATING AT HOME BRINGS GOOD FORTUNE.
So send him over to the neighbors for a visit.
IT FURTHERS ONE TO CROSS THE GREAT WATER.
Better yet, send him on a trip across town.

In otherwords, perhaps the Judgement is telling wild unfocus energies can be tamed by being given them a focus, a job to do.

Well then what does any of that have to do with reading books and accumulating wisdom? :confused:
 

rosada

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Making this up as I go along...

I think over on the "Is the I Ching often wrong?" thread we had an interesting example of 25. Innocence. We started bouncing around ideas without any particular goal or purpose, totally Innocent and spontaneous. However, as the postings accumulated, we could no longer easily keep up with the story line. We had to keep going back to earlier posts to see what others had said. So we could no longer just be "Innocent", but had to Acquaint ourselves with the Many Sayings of Antiquity. Well, we didn't HAVE to, but it was more fun if the story made some sort of sence. That is, the fun of random spontinaity was short lived, an appreciation for order kicked in, and to continue, to persever we needed to know what had happened in the earlier posts. So anyway, I'm thinking this is the development of conciousness we're seeing here with 25 - 26. In 25 Innocence, there is first a feeling that anything goes, but after we've been on the scene for awhile the world is no longer filled with surprises. We know night will follow day and hunger will need to be satisfied, so life no longer seems so random. We no longer just happen to show up at the neighbor's at dinner time, we realize we have some instinct that causes us to get there at that moment. We no longer just happen to wander, we intentionally set off to cross the great water. Life is no longer perceived as being Innocent, because we recognize reaccuring patterns. We recognize these reaccuring patterns either because we remember them, or because we have read about them. Thus, when we start living our lives with intention, not just claiming we are Innocent and don't know better but acknowledge that we know, and choosing our actions intentionally, then one comes to want to know more about the cycles and patterns of the past. And thus, wanting to move beyond boring randomness, one is moved to acquaint oneself with the sayings and deeds of antiquity.
 

rosada

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I think of the image of the lines, the three solid and then two broken and the one solid. I think of the two broken lines as being a receptive open door. The three bottom solid lines want to move upward, but cannot until the doors are open, until the space is open, receptive to them, suggesting as much as one might like to push their ideas forward, this will not happen until someone is receptive to them. We are restrained until a space opens up.
 

getojack

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I think of the image of the lines, the three solid and then two broken and the one solid. I think of the two broken lines as being a receptive open door. The three bottom solid lines want to move upward, but cannot until the doors are open, until the space is open, receptive to them, suggesting as much as one might like to push their ideas forward, this will not happen until someone is receptive to them. We are restrained until a space opens up.

Ahh, thanks. Now it makes sense. The ancients who wrote the wise lines of the Da Xu hexagram were restraining our understanding of it through conflicting and mixed messages. Now it's all clear. :D
 

Trojina

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Examples:

- Militant rebels decide to lay down their arms and form a political party.

- Yijingers and astrologers do the same and are elected in parliament! :)

- Chris finally writes an article that meets academic writing standards and - hurray! - it is published in a scientific journal. :D

- Combustion engines and nuclear reactors. A potentially destructive process is 'tamed', i.e. controlled, slowed down. The result is a steady release of useful energy.

- Capturing/taming wild (dangerous) animals. And using them for labour or other purposes.

- Accumulation of energy (or something else) for later use. Here there is no channel yet, only restraint. The idea is "don't use it now, let it accumulate, build up, for a while".
If one is recuperating from an illness it could mean "stay quiet now, rest, first become stronger".
"Not eating at home brings good fortune" (WB). Is this an advice to eat varied food or does it mean "don't eat up yourself - or your finger nails - while you rest"? Or both? :)

I like the way Martin explains it (and thankyou everyone else for trying ) yet for me theres still this contradiction between building up energy/organising force - yet "not eating at home". Like jack I find the message mixed since the judgement seems to advise getting out there and getting on with it - thats what i thought "not eating at home" meant. By Martins last sentence seems hes not sure about it either ?

I can't quite think of a time this hex ever made alot of sense to me when i got it.

So in practical divination terms i take it people generally feel its about storing up energy/wisdom to make an intelligent organised move forward - so if one is asking about a project and for example one received 26 unchanging would you take that as an indication to make more preparations or an indication to just go ahead and get on with things ?
 
B

bruce_g

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Experience is the best teacher. What good is a big experience without a big lesson to learn from it? If you’ve had such past experiences, now (26) is the opportunity to practice what you’ve learned.

I think the word "Power" causes some confusion. What good is power if it must be restrained? Well, imagine your car has a 400 hp engine, and you're driving through a school zone with kids crossing the street. Power is only available power, but using all available power is seldom advisable.

About entering public office or not eating at home: doesn't valuable experience, plus restraining excessive power, qualify someone to hold a responsible position and to offer help to others?
 
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martin

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Hi Trojan,

The advice not to eat at home seems quite logical to me. Whatever it is that is accumulated/stored, we don't have it yet. Metaphorically, it's not in our 'home'. So we will have to get it - 'eat' it - somewhere else.
I was wondering if the writers perhaps also meant that the 'food' needs to be varied or that one shouldn't 'eat oneself', in the sense of worrying, brooding, running in circles in ones mind, and so on.
I don't know, but in any case, there is a need for 'food' from external sources. And perhaps some fresh air too.

Does that make sense?

In practical divination terms - I think I know what 26 means but how to put it into words?
See, there it is, this is a 26 problem, or part of it. The answer seems already there somehow, inside me, so I don't need to get it somewhere else and store it. The food problem is already solved.
But there is another problem that is also part of 26.
I have to give what is inside me a form (mountain) that is understandable for others. I guess this is the 'crossing the stream' part of 26, to go out into the world with whatever it is that is stored. That requires finding the right form, adapting to conventions (language conventions in this case), and so on.

I hope this still makes sense? Or should I have prepared more (maybe even have eaten more?) before going ahead and writing this? :D
 
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rosada

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In the second half of Wilhelm (pg. 515 in my book under Commentary on the Decision) he says, "'Not eating at home brings good fortune,' for people of worth are honored." Seems to be saying not to worry about finding one's way in life, that if one goes out into the world to seek his fortune he will be successful, he will be fed.

If I were asking about a project and received 26 I would interpret it to mean I ought to make a start and watch for guidance along the way. Particularly if I were going to visit a foreign country, I would feel 26 meant I should try to learn something about the history of the place, a bit of the language before going, but that ultimately I would be okay once I just hit the road, as long as I didn't go too far without stopping to ask for directions.

Interesting that we are discussing the whole hexagram here at the beginning, more so than we have in our previous examinations. It's like we're eager to understand it all, yet this is the very hexagram that says take it one day at a time.
 

Trojina

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Hi Trojan,

The advice not to eat at home seems quite logical to me. Whatever it is that is accumulated/stored, we don't have it yet. Metaphorically, it's not in our 'home'. So we will have to get it - 'eat' it - somewhere else.
I was wondering if the writers perhaps also meant that the 'food' needs to varied or that one shouldn't 'eat oneself', in the sense of worrying, brooding, running in circles in ones mind, and so on.

I hope this still makes sense? Or should I have prepared more (maybe even have eaten more?) before going ahead and writing this?


Good grief Martin your're on form tonight :D Never ever had it occured to me that we have to eat elsewhere because we do not have it stored in our own home - not once - but it makes sense as it ties in with storing up words from antiquity etc I always thought of it somehow like just going out for dinner because it was good to mix and share with people :blush:

I'm still experiencing a little conflict with 26 in like do we have what we need or not ?

Bruce says we have the power stored there like in an engine but we expend it a controlled intelligent way - yes so we have the power/capacity in us. Yes but if we have it in us why do we have to go out to get it ? Bruce and you seem to be saying opposite things to me - Bruce has his food in his house/engine, you have to go out to get it. Oh but then later in your post you say the food is there within you ? (so why you have to go out )

Meanwhile all I can think of is squirrels for some reason - have they got their nuts stored or do they need to go out for them :rofl: Nuts or no nuts which is it ?

I think I need some sleep, perhaps this will make more sense in the morning -
 

rosada

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You may also get some insight into 26 if you think of it as the opposite of 25.
25.Ignorance vs. 26. Experience, education.
 

rosada

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The tarot symbol for Uranus/Heaven is The Fool - spontaneous activity.
The tarot symbol for Saturn/The Mountain is The Devil - karma.
When you look at the two cards together you get the sence that spontaneous activity is going to lead to trouble, that one needs to know The Law.
 

Trojina

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I see where you're coming from but I can't quite follow that cos for me 25 never equalled ignorance or immaturity - these are more the province of hex 4. 25 can be the height of wisdom, if wisdom is being in tune with the natural flow.

I understand you make the sequence as a memory aid but then it comes across that you see 26 as somehow a better state of affairs than 25, that 26 is a progression from it - whereas I don't naturally tend to see the hexes as following on in developmental order - I may be alone in that :D

But sure i can see 26 as planned forethought action as opposed to spontaneous action of 25 - but this 'not eating at home' stuff - I could not see how that fitted in.

I'm gathering ideas about that - like a squirrel
 
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lightofreason

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You may also get some insight into 26 if you think of it as the opposite of 25.
25.Ignorance vs. 26. Experience, education.

No way. the opposite of 26 is 45. Never, EVER, take opposites like this - opposites come out in the binary order as 'pure' opposites, any other form is derived, localised. 25 has nothing to do with absolute ignorance, what you show in such labelling IS ignorance - symmetric, lack-in-precision thinking. 26 is focused in general on a context of issues covering wholeness(blending) within which operates sharing space with others (bonding).
25 covers wholeness (blending) operating within sharing time with others (binding).

In the TRADITIONAL I Ching the PAIR focuses on holding firm in general and to personal (25) or traditional (26) perspectives. FROM that can come a sense of naivity (innocense, holding firm to personal can show lack of experience in the young etc - 25).

The main theme as such is generic 'holding firm' and the differences are in the context, self, new, young or others, developed, old, and so complements, not opposites. Thus the PAIR 25/26 cover a generic meaning of 'holding firm', that is the SAMENESS and the difference are in local context.

In the binary sequence 26 opposes 45. Consider THAT relationship, or consider the full dimension of that relationship described by 64-hexagram sequence (see the horizontal sequence for 26-45 in the icmatrix page http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/icmatrix.html

For 25 the opposite is 46 (dis-entangle, lack of involvement vs entangle, get more involved)

If you want to go the distance then also review the spectrum of each hexagram.

IMHO Rosada, you really need to understand the basic structures of the IC, and so focus on the BINARY ordering, aka Fu Hsi order, where that way your random musings will have foundation and so be useful - what you have given above is not useful! - understand the GENERAL, that which is REPEATED, CONSTANT, and THEN focus on particulars within the general.

The fact that you work off Wilhelm is itself 'unfortunate' in understanding but we have to live with it due to history, but to then add further corruption makes things worse.

There IS constancy, repeatibility, symmetry etc etc in the I Ching at the general level of expression, THEN comes the local contributions, the 'random' elements that bring out nuances of hexagrams. The labels you used above as representing the hexagrams are false, they show part-for-whole thinking, lack in precision, thought crime! ;-)

Consider the hexagrams in their generic form as genes and so genotype, THEN comes local context that brings out phenotype - but to understand the phenotype you do need careful consideration of the genotype, otherwise one can be 'all over the place' and so learning is delayed.

Chris.
 
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bruce_g

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So much for artistic license, huh!

Hey, Rosada, maybe you and I can convince Hilary to create a Yi-jam room. The only rule is to groove, baby.

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