Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
Wilhelms commentary makes not much sense to me in that i've never been able to relate 33.2 to an smaller/inferior person clinging to a greater - so I'm not sure if 33.2 means you're stuck with something whether you like it or not ,the attachment is too strong to withdraw, or it just means you hold fast to your withdrawal despite anyones attempts to retrieve you ? Or is it being put under pressure, tied to do something ? Who is holding who fast ?
Can people stop withdrawing from my question 33.1 is sooo yesterday - what do you think 33.2 means - apart from Wilhelms commentary
you did post 33.2 ages ago but everyones got hung up on 33.1 for some reason - ah well i shall practise the virtue of patience it will be good for my character i suppose
Trojan:you did post 33.2 ages ago but everyones got hung up on 33.1 for some reason...
shuo1: to speak / to talk / to utter / to say / to explain / to clarify / a description / a narration / a statement / a theory / to scold / to talk to / a talking-to / a scolding
...
shui4: to persuade / to influence
...
yue4: to delight / to please
http://www.chineseetymology.org/Cha...aspx?characterInput=說&submitButton1=Etymology
Perhaps a spanking to match the boots and whip??
To answer your question, let's think that at times of retreat you don't leave behind those that are bonded to you...
I see so its like if you go up the mountain for spiritual retreat you have to take the cat because he just won't let go i actually had a cat like that. You would of course have to leave your boots and whip behind....ah though they mind come in handy for self flagellation for impure thoughts
I've haven't been well lately so if people want to continue on the Memorizing threads without me that would be great. Otherwise I hopefully I will be back in the game before too long. I have a problem with seizures.
Hi, Rosada:I've haven't been well lately so if people want to continue on the Memorizing threads without me that would be great. Otherwise I hopefully I will be back in the game before too long. I have a problem with seizures.
Topal:... To retain people as men- and maidservant brings good fortune...
...the situation is far from satisfactory--for what can one hope to accomplish with such servants?...
Still confused about who is the “he” and who is the “him” ?
If the “he” is the “superior” then he holds the “inferior” fast and so tight that he can move or act ? Or in an retreat we should immobilize (or control ) the inferior part of us ? ...
Topal:
Wich do you think could be the reason why W/B after having rendered that to retain servants «brings good fortune» add «far from satisfactory»?
Maybe they think the Yi was wrong?
Why they said «such servants»?
The chinese text says: «畜chu 臣chen 妾quie 吉ji»
Some of the meanings:
1) 畜chu: cattle, domestic animals | livestock, possessions, ranch ... (to retain for W/B)
2)臣 chen: minister, vassal, servant ... (men for W/B)
3) 妾qie: concubine, 2nd. wife ... (maidservants for W/B)
4)吉ji: lucky... (good fortune for W/B)
Maybe the advice was «if you'r tied to retreat or conceal, better with your preferred toys», like kings.
You know that ancient kings (not only chinese kings) used to go to his last hiden place with their preferred toys, including animals, servants and wives.
What can they (kings) hope to accomplish with such servants? They hope to retain life privileges after they had died. The best companions for a king, thus: «lucky».
Yours,
Charly
Hi Charly,
This is a line that has always been difficult for me to understand. But I tend to see these "servants" and "hangers on" as a means to an end. You have to try and adapt to the situation as best you can and retain the "services" of people, places and a situation that may have worked in the past but that must change when the time is right. In other words, it's not "satisfactory" to do this, but it must be done nevertheless to maintain a strategic withdrawal otherwise everything could get worse. It's all about adapting no? Kinda like using akido. Not sure if I have that right...
Topal
... I tend to see these "servants" and "hangers on" as a means to an end. You have to try and adapt to the situation as best you can and retain the "services" of people, places and a situation that may have worked in the past but that must change when the time is right. In other words, it's not "satisfactory" to do this, but it must be done nevertheless to maintain a strategic withdrawal otherwise everything could get worse...Topal
... as Topal says a means to an end. I don't really understand how you see toys here Charly
Topal:Just thinking more on this. With 33.3 there is adapting to the demands of the time while withdrawing and with 25.3 there is Wilhelm's: "we must accommodate ourselves to the demands of the time, otherwise unexpected misfortune overtakes us" which is the same except it is a disentangling, while remaining in amongst it I guess; being innocent without going over board. Again practicalities and "nuts and bolts" reality which seems to often characterize line 3. I compare the two because I just got 25.3 regarding work/direction.
Topal
Got 33.3 >12 about a situation some time ago.
In a retreat keep the "servants" that want to serve your purpose (good fortune) ....and fire the servants that want to be served (far from satisfactory ?) ...
Hi, Troyan:
The yours is a valid point of view, much people agree with it. Time obligate.
But think: if you were the person in a subordinate position taken as a mean to an end and later discarded? How do you would feel? Maybe like a «toy».
When strategy obligates, when power obligates, people become toys.
Don't you agree?
Charly
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).