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sissy20042001

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Hello....
I've asked IChing to give me a picture about me and a person I will call M. By a picture I mean anything that IChing could tell me about the energy or present situation about me and this person.
The answer I got was hexagram 42 with line changing at 4th place turning into hexagram 25.
Im a total newbie so please I need some help interpreting this. Thanks.
 

void

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I think its better to give an idea of your interpretation first before others jump in.

Reason being I think even if you are a newbie still the Yi is talking back to you so your intuition on the answer is very valid.
 

sissy20042001

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I have no idea of what I feel about this so I need other ones interpretation and we follow from there..... thanks.
 

sissy20042001

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I really dont want to. If by any chance someone can give me some clarification I will apreciate.
 
M

micheline

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Void... I love your no-nonsense attitude! You always make me smile


Sissy, this image would speak of a favorable, expansive time and a trusting relationship in which there is potential for large undertakings. relating 25 is the image of innocence, integrity, naturalness.
no worries at this time...allow for the increase and flow.

BUT note: Void has a valid point ....a "newbie" gains a lot by being willing to plunge ahead (increase understanding and flow with your gut intuitions) . You might be surprised what emerges for you as you play with the images of 42 and line 4.
 

sissy20042001

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Thanks Micheline. This reading sounds very promising and positive, but this is exactly why I had not tried to 'understand' it myself cause this person seems to reject me and not really interested in any kind of relationship with me. Why do you think the reading is so positive? Any clues on it about rejection or should I ask IChing if there is really rejection or not? Thanks in advance.
 

sissy20042001

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Ok, Ive just asked if this person rejects me and got 41 changing lines at 5th and 6th position. Anything to add? I really apreciate any help. Thanks a lot.
 
M

micheline

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A-ha, the plot thickens.
your original question was to get an image of what "IChing could tell me about the energy or present situation about me and this person"

it isnt like asking Madame Rue if you will be lucky in love or not ; ) but regardless of what is happening specifically between you and M, there is an expansive and beneficial energy present for you/within you in regards to this situation. (are you feeling "in love" after a time of stagnation?)
M might come around, and he/she might not, but you are in a good position in any case.

41.5 is a line I love to get...very blessed and fortunate.
 

void

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Hi Sissy, its weird with relationship questions - it seems quite common the Yi gives these glowing answers where the object of desire is showing no interest at all. I'm not sure exactly why this happens, maybe as Micheline says its referring to a time of increase within you. Sometimes i think its because of idea of what is desirable in love and relationships is a very long way from the Yi Jings ? Also people tend to ask about relationships when they see there is really no hope they tend to consult the Yi in I think a last attempt to salvage something for their broken heart. Could be maybe heart ache is a precursor for great personal growth (as well as making many poems and songs, lol)

I really think if the person has given you no reason to hope there is anything between you its a big mistake to pin hopes on seemingly encouraging answers from the Yi. I've seen it over and over and I think its quite tragic that rather than accept the reality people will go on and on living in hope purely because they think the Yi is telling them to. But how do I know ? Sometimes maybe it pays off to be hopeful ??

Re 42 it seems positive though line 4 puzzles me a great deal. I have never read a commentary that satisfied me with regard to this line, I just don't know what assisting in removal of the capital means at all ?? So i would appreciate some enlightenment there if anyone can help ?

With 41, line 5 and 6 I would tend to take it as good fortune in what appears to be a loss.

I agree its very puzzling to get what seems such a 'thumbs up' from the Yi when reality does not bear that out. Perhaps others have some ideas ?
Perhaps you are being of great benefit to this person in some way - they are expereiencing increase from you ? If they are showing no kind of interest at all though I think 41, 5 and 6 was a very encouraging answer - what you now see as loss is infact beneficial.

Ha Micheline although I may take a no nonesense approach I am often full of nonsense myself !


BTW I have in the past pinned hope on untenable relationships because I thought the Yi was encouraging even when the other person wasn't.

I'm so wary of doing that now because you can waste so much of your life doing that.
 
P

peace

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What I have done in this situation is look at what I'm projecting onto this other person - what disowned part of myself am I trying to bring back to myself. Many times this is what forms the erotic connection and it has nothing at all to do with someone else.

Then, use the reading to heal this part of you and integrate into your Self.
We are attracted to that in another that we don't fully own in ourselves.
 
J

jesed

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Hi Sissy

Just in case the comment could be useful

The question is like a general diganosis of the relationship. In this case the principal answer (hex 42) shows the objective develop of the relationship; the changing line advice how and when the consultant should act (changing line 4 of hex 42); and the related hexagram (hex 25) shows the intended direction to take.

Now, hex 42 shows a calendaric time that started around september 17 and ended around December 16 this year. It means, the objective time for Increase (42) the relationship IS IN THE PAST. Now the relationship is under the Unexpected (25)

But this past facts are ruling the relationship nowadays. It means: you should learn from what had happened between september 17 and December 16 in the relationship.

One of the lessons from 42 is: to increse something, one needs to sacrifice something.

Line 4 of hex 42 advice to remain faithful and loyal in order to achive the prince follows you. This line have a relationship with line 4 of 25: remaining inocently faithful to your own nature achieve that you won't need to concern in protect what belongs to you.


The image formed with this answer, is like you need to sacrifice some of your intentions in order the relationship improve. Try to relax a litlle bit the intended effort to increase the relationship, and remain truth to what reality is.

Best wishes
 
P

peace

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To continue about the projecting.
You will find something - some quality or qualities in that person that you wish you had more of or less of.

If this is difficult to figure out - do a written dialogue with this person. You can actually ask them what it is you are to learn from them and what you are so attracted to.

Anyway - if this helps you...it works for me.
Rosalie
 

sissy20042001

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Very very interesting all these insights about my reading. There are lots for me now to think about. I have kinda moved on, but thought friendship would be possible, but I feel rejection. Im not sure if there is really rejection or if the person rejects me in fact, so Im just stepping back and whatever will be, will be. I should not be still give this person some credit but a part of me still do, so the questions. It is weird, sometimes our brains do not want anyone anymore but the habit or heart - whatever you call it - still holds on. I apreciate all you have said to me and thank you all very much for this. If anyone wants to step in and still comment, I would like it a lot. Thanks for everyone. xxx
 

sissy20042001

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By the way, the time refered by Jesed as the increasing moment is exactly the moment where I experienced rejection or maybe some mind games played on me. Im not sure yet. I know there is blessing in disguise and maybe this is the case. I need closure though, thats why I need so much to ask and understand things. My heart always have to understand things in a 'brainly' way if you know what I mean. xxx
 

pakua

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Hi Void,

You said "it seems quite common the Yi gives these glowing answers where the object of desire is showing no interest at all" and "I agree its very puzzling to get what seems such a 'thumbs up' from the Yi when reality does not bear that out"

Did you ever reach any conclusions as to why this should be?
 
P

peace

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Pakua:

It most likely has nothing to do with the person - it's your own projection of your desire.
The positive response probably means that you're willing to look at that part of you - and do some personal growth in the area that you're attracted to.

Rosalie
 

void

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Pakua I haven't really reached any conclusions about why this is. Partly maybe because our culture seems to present romantic love (and shopping) as the ultimate fulfillment of all ones soul desires. This is crazy, we expect so much, look outwards for what we want. Maybe the Yi has such a different perspective on our romantic relations we just don't get it when it answers about them. Its now common for people to 'shop for love' treating prospective mates as if they were objects or job applicants that must have all the right attributes - and I ask myself what has this got to do with love ? I think 'why do you expect the Yi Jing to help you pick out a person like you were buying a new pair of trousers ?

Then again maybe its just something I didn't get - maybe the person was responding positively and I didn't see it or didn't respond appropriately, therefore losing the opportunity the Yi said was there ? D'you know sometimes I think its harder for some of us to deal with very positive feedback from people than negative, we don't know what to do with it, we might run away (ahem have been introspecting a bit on this lately)

Also relationship questions usually involve asking how another feels and like I've said before if you can't ask them yourself its not a good sign. Also I think the Yi does not give you unlimited access to anothers psyche - its not your business, ask them yourself, they will tell you as much as they want you to know - thats all you have a right to know.

These are just ideas, its still pretty much of a mystery to me though.
 
M

micheline

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I dont think the answers above were actually glowing green lights.." a picture" of the image of M and sissy . 42.4 an increasing flow of energy, but line 4 is not the receiver of the enrgy (dont think). and 41.5 is often a blessing in disguise, a protection, a blessing in not getting what you want.

maybe the YI like an old grandmother..she wont tell you a whole lot.

"YI, I really like this guy!! will it work out?"

yi: "hmmmm, this is a very nice boy indeed. he makes you feel good."

"will it work out, does he like me?"

YI : "well, you're two people looking for love. It is nIce to be looking for love. Thats a wonderful part of being alive"

later

"He's rejecTed me !! oh no! you said it was good! why did you lie to me?"

Yi: "i didnt lie my child. I said it was good to be in love. and it is. but if this boy doesnt like you, its a blessing that he lets you go. Heaven watches over you. no worries, honey. It is still good to be in love"
 

void

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I'm not at all sure the Yi recognises being 'in love' as often its a fabrication to cover peoples intense fear of being alone. The people who 'look for love' most urgently are the ones that frighten me the most. After all whats the desperation about if not self evasion.
 

lightofdarkness

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From the position of categories and associations - basic emotions are mapped to the I Ching as:

heaven - anger issues (replacement of context through erradication, competitive etc)

lake - love issues (sex - physical and mental - replacement of context through replication of self - cooperative etc) - hex 41 has lake as bottom trigram.

fire - acceptance issues

thunder - surprise issues

wind - anticipation issues

water - rejection issues

mountain - sadness/grief issues (that can be turned into discernment issues, quality control etc)

earth - fear issues (that can be turned into issues of devotion to another/others - we use the context to protect us against what we fear)


42 covers anticipation/cultivation issues in a context of surprise, the sudden/new etc

41 covers discernment issues in a context of replication (a focus on purity through concentration, distillation etc where if that process fails then we have literal decrease)

If left to run its course, the description of 42 'completing correctly' is given by analogy to:

100011
101010
------
001001 - 52 discernment, quality control(led)

The description of 41 'completing correctly' is given by analogy to:

110001
101010
-------
011011 - 57 cultivation, becoming influencial

Chris.
 

pakua

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I was thinking more along the lines of Yi showing a picture of the relationship, not asking what the other is feeling or thinking. I tend to agree with you there, asking about others can get dicey.

It seems I've seen a number of comments here that people have been fooled into thinking there was something there, when in fact there was nothing, nothing at all, and it's happened to me too, even though it wasn't even in a romantic sense.

But it just seems such a glaring discrepancy. Usually Yi does show what's going on, and you can see it working, but in some cases, it's just completely off the wall - it couldn't be further wrong. So I'm wondering what's happening in those cases.

I was thinking maybe there has to be some connection between you, even if it's a negative connection, before Yi can work. Just like when you do a composite chart between two people, there has to be a connection before it can work.

Any thoughts?
 
B

bruce

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Hi Pakua,

Couple thoughts.

One is something Chris said (above) that rings a bell: "lake - love issues (sex - physical and mental - replacement of context through replication of self?" I think there's a key in "replacement of context through replication of self", and I think this where questions receive answers that don't appear to fit. In matter of romance, we project ourselves onto the other person, and separating what is about them and what is about you can become confuzzled. This is also true in anything we?re deeply subjectively involved with, not only boy/girl romance.

The other is the matter of magnitude: The size of Yi's intended answer needs to fit the size of your question to the Yi. Because Yi's archetypal language encompasses such large images, it is easy to apply large meanings where only small ones were intended. I believe this is the "exaggeration" that Chris mentions here quite often. It's more than a square peg in a square hole; it?s also the size of the square peg that makes the answer fit.
 

martin

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Agreeing with a lot that has been said sofar about projection and "disowned" parts of ourselves but sometimes there is perhaps still another explanation for the apparent "errors" of the IC.

I believe that important relationships start on inner planes long before they manifest in the outer world and continue inwardly long after they ended outwardly. And apparently most "errors" of the IC occur when outwardly nothing or not much is happening between us and the other, when the outer relationship has not yet or hardly started or when it is nearly or completely over.
Could it be that the Yi is in such cases talking about what is already or still happening between the partners on inner levels? I think so ..
 

martin

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Btw, for sex only lake is not enough, you also need thunder.
Astrologically venus (similar to lake) and mars (thunder).

Sigmund Freud

 
B

bruce

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Yo Martin,

That sounds like a time gap problem you are presenting. Having a hard time getting my head around how or why Yi would answer, outside of the time we're inquiring of. If Yi always answers to where our head is at, and not necessarily where our physical reality is at, how would you discern which time it is that Yi speaking in or to? Or perhaps? hmm.. maybe the time of the head isn?t always in synch with the time of the heart. Is this what you?re saying?
 

lightofdarkness

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thunder over lake - 54 (surprise in a context of sexual love)

Reflects the intense energy expenditure that begins relationships where they can end up 'out of energy' and fade away (immaturity at work ;-))... but the intensity can be fun.

lake over thunder - 17 (sexual love in the context of surprise/new/'enlightenment')

reflects the focus on some 'new' belief/following etc

Chris.
 

martin

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Hi Bruce,

I didn't intend to introduce a time gap problem.

An example to clarify: suppose somebody asks the Yi about a love relationship that ended a year ago and that the ex-partners didn't communicate since then. The Yi gives an answer that indicates that a lot is happening or will happen between them and the answer sounds promising. Yet nothing happens, months pass by, no contact, nothing.

Was the Yi wrong? I would say no, not necessarily, because it may be that the relationship that ended in the outer world continues in the inner world. The partners are perhaps still communicating on subtler inner levels. That is what the Yi is talking about and it is happening now, not at another time.

Of course one could say that the Yi gives misleading or useless information in such a case. Because we usually are interested in what goes on outwardly and not in what may happen on inner planes that we are hardly aware of.
But that is how it is with oracles. From the viewpoint of the intelligence behind it what we see as real (i.e. what we experience through our outer senses) is only a small part of the totality and maybe not even the most important part.
 
B

bruce

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Hi Martin,

Yes, I suppose that scenario is possible, but it seems more likely that the answer received had little or nothing to do with the question about a relationship that ended a year ago, and everything to do with the psychology of the person asking such an irrelevant and impertinent question. Geeze, no wonder they?d be confused.
 

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