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peace

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Hey Bruce -
I remember that one...
Now I'll have to read the rest of the thread to find out why you added that - I'm about 3 days behind!

Rosalie
 

pakua

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It is
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But I'm still sticking with my connection theory. It's the only thing that makes sense to me right now.

In my situation, for a year or more Yi gave me answers that "worked" in the outer world, generally very positive answers, then all of a sudden my friend broke the connection, but the positive answers kept coming. I didn't change my questions, focussing only on the inner world, so I don't see why Yi should either.

As an interesting followup, there's a Tarot reader I see once in a while. He's the best I've ever seen. Because the friendship was so important to me, I went to see the reader about it. All the cards came up positive, speaking along the lines of rebirth of the relationship. They also described the person quite well, so there was no doubt it was her.

I haven't seen that person again. The reader later said he must have bought into my illusion.

In the first stage, the relationship was real, and Yi reflected that. Later, it became fantasy, and I think Yi reflected that too.

I suspect once the connection broke, there was no alternative but for Yi to go from the totality (inner and outer) to strictly inner, but it will be difficult for anyone to know that now it's only inner. And really, I wonder how usefull that is. Seems it would be more useful to get a 33 or 12 or something like that.

And yet, I know you can ask about strangers, so...
 
S

seeker

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And if we are focusing on illusion why wouldnt Yi just give us a line that tells us that? One of the translations I have for 35.5 is Don?t float into the imaginary world with fears of success or failure. When I get that line, I look at what Im doing more closely, figuring I am probably acting under false or imaginery presumptions.

So, why wouldnt Yi just tell us outright? As I mentioned above I had asked about a guy I had met but then did not hear from, but got what seemed positive answers 42.1.3 and 42.1, yet nothing. Today when I ask about how to proceed I get 51.4, you could if there was an opponent, and then in answer to other questions 24.2.5 and 35.5. Today, the answers are very clearly saying let it go, learn from it and move on. This has happened to me a few times. When I ask about something right away, I get positive answers, but when nothing happens and I ask again, I get the oppisite and usually more on target answers. I have also noticed that you have to watch the pattern of the answers if you are asking about something over a longer period of time. I had a relationship last year that I had high hopes would eventually work out. I got what seemed to be positive answers, but when I looked at all of the answers as a whole, I realized I had just ignored some negative ones I received. The answers actually varied from day to day, week to week.

So, my theory is this, perhaps Yi always gives answers about the inner world. We mistakenly relate them to the outer world because we are human and all want easy answers, and just by coincidence they sometimes match up. For the past year I have been trying to limit my questions to things like what do I need to do, what do I need to know, thinking Id follow the adice and Yi would get me where I needed to be. But then I couldnt understand why I still kept getting kicked in the teeth. In actuality I was still looking for Yi to get me where I wanted to be, not where I needed to be. It occurred to me today that pain is part of life, and sometimes going through something, even something really hard, teaches us a valuable lesson. We grow mostly through the hard times, not the easy ones. And we learn best from experience. Telling a child they will get burned if they touch the stove does not make near as much of an impression as if they touch it and burn their hand. And thats for a physical lesson; unfortunately emotional and psychological lessons take longer to learn.

I read an article recently that said humans cannot be compared to rats psychologically. If you put a rat in a maze, it turns left and gets cheese, right it gets a shock, after a few tries it will always choose left. Humans, however, have free will and an uncanny predisposition for self destruction. They will continue to go right, to prove a point, to show no one controls them, because they think they will somehow get around it, whatever. Point is, it will take much longer for the human to learn the lesson.

My understanding of the oriental philosphy, which Yi comes from, is that the goal is to be whole as an individual. You are a healthy, happy, complete person when all that fulfills you comes from inside of you. If you need another person to feel happy or complete, if you fall apart because some guy or girl doesnt return your interest, then you are not operating within that philosophy. IF Yi indeed functions on that level, then when we ask for answers from Yi that are outside of that, we are working at cross purposes and the answers are bound to be confusing or appear not to apply.

Wow, Im just 49ing all over the place
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And looking at my other answer 42.1.3. My question was what should I do about this guy? My original interpretation based on the outer world was that if I made an effort everything would work out, and that something I saw as a mistake would actually bring this guy closer to me. Answer looking from the inner world and probably closer to the real answer: "well child, you should rouse yourself to begin great efforts to work on yourself and despite slim resources you will become a whole and happy person. This was an unfortunate mistake, but what you learn from it will bring you closer to a true spiritual connection with yourself, the universe, and with me." I got an answer, and in a roundabout way it was to the question I asked. It just wasnt the answer I was looking for.

So, if my theory is correct, the bad news is Yi is not a fortune teller and will not tell you whether or not things will work out with prince seemingly charming, but probably just a big rat trying to get his cheese (ok, so maybe still some guy issues to work on
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). The good news is the answers will help you to learn about yourself and help you to become a whole and happy person, which in the end will make you desirabale to the real prince charming if that is still what you want.

Bad news for me, I am so far from the end of the tunnel that the light is but a pinprick.
 

pakua

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Yes I see the point you're making Seeker, Yi speaks to the inner world, and sometimes you see it reflected in the outer.

My only (only?) problem is how to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Because it seems so accurate so often, and then suddenly it is not, what is the sign that tells you "this is different", you have now entered fantasy.
 

lightofdarkness

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The structure of the IC reflects the structure of the neurology in its categorisations. The structure of the neurology reflects the adaptation of neuron-dependent life to the universe. IOW our maps will 'fit' the universe well since we have internalised the basic mechanisms of that universe - differentiating/integrating (represented in the IC as yang/yin)

This feeds into the development of consciousness - see http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/symmetry.html

With consciousness comes the precision and ability to IMAGINE contexts that we may need to adapt-to PRIOR to actually experiencing them. This can cause 'issues' where fact and fiction can merge into a hybrid ontology - maya at work.
 

pakua

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Maya certainly can cause 'issues' - lol - especially when there's more fiction than fact.
 
B

bruce

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Pakua, very true.

When 'fact' is disseminated, what remains? Our thoughts are what gathers things together, so fact and fiction may not be so clearly determined as we imagine. That?s where Yi comes in handily, and why the world of Yi resides more inside than out. Maya is our friend, once you get to know her well enough, but she has a strange way of morphing, in order to trick you. Yi is impartial to it, not distinguishing one from the other. That is left to our conscious mind to sort out; as disturbing as that sometimes may be.
 

lightofdarkness

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... and so the need to understand what is behind expressions and learn discernment when dealing with our hybrid reality.

The XOR material is indicating the presence of 'best fit' properties and methods for each hexagram and so the 'hard coding' of stimulus/response dynamics that we can learn and so discern. These are GENERAL dynamics where LOCAL context can hide them with embelishments but understanding the general 'vibe' so one can be aware of their presence and know their flow. THEN comes the choices of (a) adapting to the context or (b) try and replace the context with one of one's own making or (c) move on.

Neurologically, context 'pushes' our buttons and we respond. The IC can be used to determine what is pushing one's buttons and then respond in a manner best suited to one's current state/position or intended state.

IOW consciousness appears to be a mutation and as such there is no, was no, 'plan' as such - BUT with consciousness we move into a position of being proactive but with that is a price - the issues with maya. BUT with consciousness also comes the ability to map-out the possible states and so make more discernments, better choices, detect what is behind expressions, their intent etc and so work in dealing with maya...

Once you have a map of local or universal dynamics so you can pre-empt etc where the pre-emption includes consciousness as an agent of mediation.

This is all 'new' in that we get a better insight into our workings as a species and as conscious individuals but in doing so have to 're-configure' some old perspectives.
 

martin

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Yeah, well, you really are a thinking type, apparently. I understand what you say but personally I really don't need algebra to perceive the general or not so general vibes that emanate from people, dogs, situations, aliens or whatever. I FEEL these vibes and then I understand. And I also do not need algebra to figure out what I will do next. The way shows itself, no analysis or "strategical" considerations involved.

Of course I have a thinking mind the size of a planet (as Marvin said
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) but I am basically a feeling type. First feel then think.
IDM is not of much use to me, I guess, or is it?
 

lightofdarkness

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If you have gone through the ICPlus material then you would have done the PROACTIVE I Ching questions method. That method combines thinking with feeling in that the core qualities focused upon from an IDM perspective are feelings of blending, bonding, bounding, and binding where those are accessed through the formats of the questions.

Note that the methodology of questions includes allowing for a focus on one's feelings about one's position in the current context. FROM that the system comes up with the hexagram describing the context. From that, through XOR we can flesh-out the full spectrum of that context and so determine what WE would like to do - adapt, replace, or move on.

IOW through the ICPlus questions we access our species-nature aspects (with their more emotional elements) that feed our consciousness-nature.

Thus given a vague vibe of the context, the whole, we can use consciousness to get details. We cannot use consciousness to get the 'vibe' since consciousness is too differentiating when the vibe comes from integrating.

(see the XOR/AND dynamics in their paradox-processing where we can experience the issues of the differentiating not dealing with complex patterns : http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/paradox.html )

So - to REFINE our 'vibe' nature (the instincts/habits at work in a holistic, organic, manner) we use consciousness to flesh-out details.

To reveal all of this has required thinking as well as feeling. For references etc on the work on links of basic emotions etc to ICPlus (or more so IDM but the labels just need to be changed) see http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/emote.html

The development of the brain has passed through the use of parallel processing (instinctive emotional stimulus/response) and into the more precise but delay-oriented dynamics of serial processing where frontal lobe areas act to suppress the emotions to allow for the acquiring of more data etc IOW the realm of the rational works off 'controlling' the emotions where we can get a better perspective on the 'vibe' ;-)

There is no need to understand algebra, there is a need for an understanding of basic feelings that are then labelled and refined through thinking etc. The best representation format is through the binary where the use of logic operators is easy to do (and learn).

BTW - if you are Marvin-oriented then watch out for the depression! ;-)

Chris.
 

jte

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"Bad news for me, I am so far from the end of the tunnel that the light is but a pinprick."

Funny, I had always heard that "life's about the journey, not the destination..."

- Jeff
 
S

seeker

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Jeff: Funny, I had always heard that "life's about the journey, not the destination..."

Yes, I have said that myself many times. But a journey implies movement, going somewhere. I have felt too often the past few years that I was standing still, just spinning my wheels.

Pakua: My only (only?) problem is how to tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Because it seems so accurate so often, and then suddenly it is not, what is the sign that tells you "this is different", you have now entered fantasy.

That is the difficulty, but my guess would be that when it suddenly seems inaccurate, you have reached Fantasy Land. Will you stay and ride Dumbo or catch the tram back to Tomorrowland
biggrin.gif
 

jte

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Well, Seek, dunno - raising your daughter, changing careers, learning more of the Yi, becoming more comfortable with yourself - I'm not saying you shouldn't feel the way you do, but I guess it's a matter of perspective... I don't feel this way, so it's probably hard for me to understand. I have felt it in the past career-wise... so that was when I changed careers... dunno...

If you're not above "self-help" from the corporate world, you might try reading "Who Moved My Cheese?" by Spencer Johnson - it's not exactly earth-shaking, but I liked the philosophy espoused well enough...

- Jeff
 

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