never?

[dragona]

Greetings:bows:,
this is one of those questions, but thought I post it here, see if someone would carry this forward as the cast was 46.2,3,6>23 for when will Y marry?
Thanx :bows:

 

[foxx777]

I would not say never. I would say, using my trusted Berkers, and bringing in a bit of Legge, that one should "fear not", as "advance to the South will bring good fortune". It is a matter of persisting, and removing something which is blocking the advance toward marriage.

The potential is there. But there must be a moving upward, an advancing toward it. Emotional I Ching says of line 6, "Advancing in darkness. One attempted to mature too soon. Testing but advantageous times. Advantageous NOT to give up."

46.2.3.6 >23

46. Advancing

line 2:

Confidence is a priority.
It is beneficial to bring a summer sacrifice.
Without fault. (Emotional I ching says, "A balanced moment because of an advantageous and modest offering, but testing times remain ahead." )

it is important that the situation is such that one can trust it. It is therefore a good idea to do something extra. This is not a mistake.
(the summer sacrifice was one in which flute music was used. It was associated with joy.)

line 3:

Advancing in an empty town.

advancing without meeting with resistance. However, this is towards something that isn't of much value.

line 6:

Advancing in darkness.
Benefit is in not ceasing this.
persist.

Advancing while things aren't clear at all. Don't give up, keep going on.

hexagram is changing to:

23. Removal

removal.
It is a disadvantage to have a goal to move to.

removing something. Before this is done it is not practical to make plans.

 

[dragona]

Ah, I see...at first, thought it was a pun of a sort on marriage and expectation from it: first you show the interest, then you see it is not as you thought it will be and there is nothing but persevere once you are there...
but if put in perspective? 3rd line gives that spooky feeling, as from adventure movies when the gang enters the lost ancient city and it is all quiet...TOO quiet :hide:
and for the 6th line in Memorising Threads trojan wrote it was a sign to keep going for her...

So, slowly and carefully advancing in that direction even tho there are obstacles and basically, the empty city at present, there will be...change of settings (as Bradford says that in the dark different rules and new ways apply-as I understood it):bag:

 

[foxx777]

I think you got it! Yes, "One advances into an empty city" does give an eerie feeling. I used to be spooked also by line 6, which I received all too often, until I read Lofting's version, "One climbs in darkness: Advantageous to NOT give up"

 

[pocossin]

when will Y marry?
46.2.3.6 > 23

If Y doesn't take care of health, never. “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). 46.2 recommends a small offering. An offering is something you give up. 46.3 and .6 suggests you carry on in spite of a lack of recognition and acknowledgement. 23 as spilting apart suggests that if you will find an opening.

 

[dragona]

when will Y marry?
46.2.3.6 > 23

If Y doesn't take care of health, never. “At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven” (Matthew 22:30). 46.2 recommends a small offering. An offering is something you give up. 46.3 and .6 suggests you carry on in spite of a lack of recognition and acknowledgement. 23 as spilting apart suggests that if you will find an opening.

Unique as always
But how you come to connect Matthew 22:30 with 46>23?
Of course it makes sense, healthy looking maiden was/is always in demand. Here it could be connected with 2nd line and making an offering...as Charly says:Or maybe is about a female captive playing the flute. Say making ambient. http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=6346&page=3
Perhaps creating an atmosphere that is attractive?
In the same thread meng says that the 3rd line is about "overkill of a momentum" which would describe what I have done recently, so...
But let`s say after personal striving and offerings, there comes easy (looking) ascending and suddenly, it is a new, unexpected dark situation? Does splitting of an window of opportunity comes in afterwards?

Sorry, harping on it perhaps, but trying to understand the sequence in terms of when a bit better.uch:

 

[foxx777]

I understand 23 as Ewald Berkers does,

"Removal: Removing something. Until this is done, it is not advantageous to have a goal."

Looking back on my own plight of marrying, I can see that until I removed a certain attitude I had, the marriage would continue troubled ( and it did ).

 

[pocossin]

But how you come to connect Matthew 22:30 with 46>23?

In my mystical mind, everything is connected. The fruit falls when it is ripe.

 

[dragona]

The fruit falls when it is ripe.
Or when it is affected by illness as budding peaches in my garden..

 

[pocossin]

The fruit falls when it is ripe.
Or when it is affected by illness as budding peaches in my garden..

That's true, Dragona. A worm in a fruit causes premature aging. Peaches here are difficult to grow without continual spraying, which is an emblem for taking care of one's health.

 

[dragona]

Since quite gloomy, asked how to increase the chances/how to better situation of 23? Hex 57.3<59
Adding just in case someone thinks this cast speaks about something other then being decisive and take action, make decisions? But I think it is about that, basically.

 

[answeredquestions]

Is this the 23 you are talking about? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=15022

This new reading makes me think you should go back to understanding 23 directly instead of pressing forward with another reading. Take into consideration the advice of 23 is just that: how to better the 23 situation.

 

[dragona]

Is this the 23 you are talking about? http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=15022

Oh, no. The relating hex was 2 in that case, I corrected it latter on and these are two different things all together...

 

[dragona]

That's true, Dragona. A worm in a fruit causes premature aging. Peaches here are difficult to grow without continual spraying, which is an emblem for taking care of one's health.

My point was kinda that in the best case scenario, ripened fruit get picked in the right time but other don`t share that destiny or the luck or a good gardener...

 

[answeredquestions]

I still think the best thing for you to do would be to gain an understanding of the advice of 23 on it's own - my interpretation of the 57.3 reading

 

[dragona]

So I have..but I get the idea of going to basics, or back to some older issue.. and the card image, it reminds me strongly of an earthquake! http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=4001

 

[answeredquestions]

Sometimes images can be wonderful aids for understanding.

23:

剝

Maybe the image itself can help you in your situation and LiSe always has good things the describe the character's meanings. http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/index.html

A couple of member's gave me this site: http://www.chineseetymology.org/ for looking up the Chinese characters.

 

[dragona]

Thank you, I red LiSe`s, often do...this is a new thread to me, looks a bit confusing but will try...
I wonder if the earthquake makes sense as stripping away for you also and anybody else? Did not get many 23 hex so far, so always thought the essence of it is NO, stay put.

 

[answeredquestions]

Personally, I can see the connection of stripping away with earthquakes. A lot of companies are fracking on the land and it is causing earthquakes. I see that as earth's way of communicating a message to stop intruding so harshly and if we don't stop, the human race is going to get stripped off of the earth. Earth's way of deconstructing.

What is your personal connection to the earthquake and 23 (other than Luis' image)? --How does it apply to your initial question of 'When will Y marry?'
----this question has nothing to do with you, it's when someone else will marry, so I find it hard to understand how Yi would answer.
------Do you see the answer as advice for yourself?

 

[dragona]

Thinking about it....but essentially, until you are done with one thing, you cannot start something new..and as i am still struggling this rings a bell.
Perhaps the idea of an earthquake came from ruthie`s posts and they are happening in Italy so the idea is in subconsciousness ... tuck chang offers the photo of pealed wall of a house and on Yi card, the chunks are falling down, depicting movement...
so, big efforts that have to come from the core, honesty in going down to essentials..shaking it up, relentlessly so...until that is done, nothing else can be accomplished..sounds exhausting even thinking out loud about it.

 

[answeredquestions]

so, big efforts that have to come from the core, honesty in going down to essentials..shaking it up, relentlessly so...until that is done, nothing else can be accomplished..sounds exhausting even thinking out loud about it.

I'm having trouble connecting your ideas or understanding what your sentences are in reference to. Sometimes I need things spelled out simply and direct. What is the above in reference to? How to approach a 23 situation? the advice of 23?

the text for 23 says it is not worthwhile to have a place to go.

Or is the above in reference to Mr. Y? Or perhaps to yourself?

 

[dragona]

That was more like pondering upon images hex 23 gave me in reference to the question asked...perhaps got side tracked?
Could you share your take on hex 23 please?

 

[answeredquestions]

The last remaining yang line is on it's way up and out. Which says to me, there is movement but not for long. Soon there will be more stillness.

A lot of the Key Words for 23 in Bradford's book make me think of my grandma's apple trees and also what Pocossin was talking about did too. The fruit tree dropping it's fruit is a great metaphor for 23. My grandma has a few apple trees and some are on slight hills. After the fruits fall we don't throw them away, but grandma didn't want anyone to trip on the apples that had rolled by the path, so we have always raked them towards the tree so that the decay of the fruit will be like a compost for it's roots. The fruits themselves are like tiny uterus' for the little seeds to be nourished in. So when they sink naturally into the ground, the seeds are in pockets of nurtients.

Another aspect to look at with the fruit tree is the tree itself and how it doesn't keep on to the fruit. It drops it, prunes itself in a way, and this is healthy for it. It would be weighed down by the fruit and become overload and the fruit would suck too much nutrients out of the tree if it remained on the stem. There would also be no more trees because the seeds would never reach the ground.

Another thing I think about is downsizing. Getting rid of extra stuff that is not needed. I have just begun this process in my apartment so I am getting rid of things that are not essential. In this way I am seeing a correlation with 50.1 only not completely turning over the pot but picking out a whole lot so there is very little left.

Bradford's Translation on 23:

Decomposing.
Not worthwhile to have somewhere to go.

This makes me think that things need to be stripped from the current place. Like if a fruit is to fall, and it be moved around from place to place, one patch of ground to the other, because the fruit is decomposing and it needs to give it's nutrients in one place to have the desired effect (maybe grandma should have us leave them alone completely, but she has safety in mind so probably not ). But for this metaphor - the seed needs a lot of the apples decay around it and it needs it mixed with the soil for a really healthy seedling.

23 also makes me think about if I were to want to move my location right now, with all of the junk that I possess it would be impossible. I need to stay put and sell this stuff, get some nutrients (money) back for the silly useless stuff, and then move later.

Also, like cutting something open to see what there is inside. Sometimes you do not realize what you possess until you cut in. Then when you do, the important things stand out and the non-important stuff falls away. This happens in relationships. Sometimes a relationship needs examined and once you do this, by really getting deep into it, you realize the truth (the truth is what you want to stay with you). I have had some 'friends' or maybe you could call them leaches, and once I realized this, dropped them and didn't look back, someone wonderful who was already in my life stood out and came to the forground.

I am still formulating 23 though, so I am not completely sure about all of this. I am sure there is something very essential I have danced around. But this is a start.

 

[dragona]

Nice, a bit less dramatic then mine take on it, but I am not in a good place right now....and I like downsizing a lot. Thanks again.

For addition (and since got hex 23 again but in regard to another subject), I like dobro`s view on hex 23, so here it is:

I don't think of 23 as 'separating'. When separation is the issue, it's more likely to crop up as 33 (the quiet variant) or 43 (announce it to the world). For me, 23 is more about being stripped of something. Maybe stripped of a pretense or an illusion (painful and good) or stripped of rank (painful and something to learn from) or stripped of possessions (painful and the only way life can manage to get your attention to what's required right now). And you've probably noticed that the common element in the three situations I've described - whether it's mental or fame or fortune - is the painful aspect of the stripping away, but actually I've found that it often isn't of crisis proportions or a catastrophe, but just...something being stripped away that needs to go. Getting rid of baby fat, maybe.

 

[Daeluin]

Hello! This is my first post here, and my apologies for stirring the dust on this year old thread. No doubt I am very new to reading the changes compared to many here, and so I beg your indulgence. Somehow I found myself alighting upon this thread, and it seems as good a place to start as any.

So the question is "when", which is a bit specific and I wonder if the changes have a subtle message here.

For 46 as a whole there is a sense of constant growth; an ever present yet gentle nudge forward, desire to evolve and rise up, as a tree slowly expanding in all directions.

In 23 we have an ending phase. A new life begins with the first spark of yang emerging from the all-yin receptive, and rises to culmination at the all-yang creative peak of life, whereupon yin begins to rise again, the creative energies are put to work manifesting into the yin energy and at the end one becomes the sage, rich with the wisdom of a full life while retreating from action, content and fullfilled. As in earth under mountain - the yin energy continues to rise, life being "stripped away" at the end. And yet the mountain at the top is strong; the sage does much with little, as a village elder firmly wielding the wisdom of generations with kind and subtle words, remaining calm, centered, and unmoved by the fears and worries of the younger generations. "The superior person gets a vehicle. The inferior person is stripped of a house."

So here is my sense of it - the quest for marriage follows the full course of your life, until the end. To find fulfillment of the desire to marry lies in resolving the challenges presented by lines two, three and six.

In line two success comes from disciplined balance. One has the desire to rise, but must act properly - with too much desire and not enough boundaries one will push too far. A summer sacrifice represents a way of channelling desire through a ritual, allowing us to surrender it to the tao, leaving us open to what may come, balanced.

In line three we are at the top of the first trigram, wind. Wind represents a penetrating force, stirring up anything stagnant, getting to the bottom of things. Above is earth, a receptive force. So in line three everything is aroused, stirred up, wants to go somewhere, and the way ahead is clear. And yet, how often in our lives is the way so completely clear? How often does someone hand us a vast sum of money and say "go do whatever you want"? That is the essense here, yet we are likely unaware of it, and thus unaware of the great need to act carefully, so we surge forward and push others away in our own eagerness or ignorance. Here we can accomplish much without obstacles, and only have ourselves to stop us from going too far.

In line 6 we have risen to the top. Like climbing to the top of a tree. Yet our desire wants to keep going... but if you climb past the top of the tree where do you go? This is like the leaves at the top and edges of the tree, listening to what is beyond, finding sunlight and energy, absorbing it and channeling it back into the tree. Here the lesson is to stay where you are, dissovle your desire for you have what you sought. Be open within and without, and listen - it's all around you. You may enrichen it by staying centered and staying open.

So I'd say this is a very optimistic and thorough answer! In relationships your energy and desires need to stay balanced, without going too far. As you adjust, you may find yourself attracting different types of people. Perhaps, if you've been yearnng for marriage, a way of balancing is to surrender the yearning, allow the universe to provide. Listen to life and when new people appear let things remain mutual. Allow yourself to really be changed by the lessons people bring to your life without wanting something in return. You will know when it is right.

Once you are balanced, you may sense a transformation in relationships, and suddenly nothing is in your way. But wait - are you sure this is what or who you want, or are you rushing into something that isn't resisting? The key is balance.

Once you've found what is right, you will get it. Yet your momentum thus far may cause you to want something more. Relax, return to yourself, and open to the relationship without desire, and it will grow deeper.

Perhaps you will journey through these phases several times with different people. In the end, well, all things end. It's up to us to decide if we are fulfilled in the end.

Please let me know if this is a helpful sharing or not. I'm new to this, but I mean the best.

In ho lo li shu, for my birth date I get 46.2, changing to 23.5. My jouney through 23 won't begin for a while, but I feel a deep resonance with 46.2. I found this thread felt like sharing what I've studied of 46 and 23.