Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
Hattah we will both need your guidance soon i imagine as there looks to be some new fangled complex 'flagging' system being set up where offenders must wear a red blob all day in public or something like that...
If me and Bamboo don't get a grasp of it we may make fatal errors like flagging the wrong person..or flagging ourselves
You will guide us won't you through these new developments won't you ?
In those two poll threads I have read thoughts I totally agree with and thoughts I totally disagree and thought I can find some common ideas this mine. The same , I speculate, has happen to everyone here. But what it worth to be highlighted, is the way that conversation flows and how each one of us respects the other.
Even if I wanted to say to someone “you are silly and your ideas are stupid” in a more polite way of course, I knew that there was no room for such comments. You made it clear at your first post and if you deleted such a post of mine I wouldn’t have the right to complain. If you didn’t the other person, the one I offend would defend him/her self by calling me names and s/he had all the right to do it because it was clear from the beginning that this wasn’t allowed.
When I have a question and I need help, I open I new thread. Maybe what everybody reads is “I met that man, he asked me to go on a date I asked Yi , Yi said this but I can’t understand its answer”. What I don’t find necessary to write is “ I know there are sad things happened all over the words, kids die in Africa, the climate has change , and the economy collapse but this specific moment My Big problem is whether or not is a good step to go to that date. I need your help to understand what Yi says. I ask help only from those who want to help me , not from everybody who wants something else.
I liked more the word “friends” in the title of the now called Shared reading. It makes more clear what the querent needs and which people are welcome. And it makes more obvious his/her right to say to an intruder that s/he is not welcome.
And to paraphrase Yi’s 58 “The querent comes together with friends for discussion and rehearsing” this is how I see “shared reading". This is the forum I want.
I’m really grateful because I came here and found friends to help me, to teach me, to support me. It was the first time I came across with Yi. Yi for me was nothing till then, I though it was another fortune telling tool and I’m glad I stick to it. I now see newbies, some of them really interesting to learn about it, trying to find they way, and we don’t really help them. We don’t give the space to experiment, to ask, to ask again, to experiment. Only the strongest survive. The others run away to safe them self from the bullets one throws to another. Some of them would leave anyway but someothers would stay if the could.
I’ve said many time the last few day to myself “Don’t bother Maria, its not your business” But I’m too passionate to leave it. Which is not always good but I try hard to tame it. Not a good progress as you can see
Hope I’m not offending none here and I respect the rules of this thread.
Maria
I've never used the Open Space, but if it is a place of attack rather than assistance, I'll continue my disuse.
i don't like to have many rules.but we do need some sort of structure.
Well, you could have said, 'Your ideas are stupid,' especially if you explained in detail how and why they were stupid. It's 'you are silly' that would have caused problems....Even if I wanted to say to someone “you are silly and your ideas are stupid” in a more polite way of course, I knew that there was no room for such comments. You made it clear at your first post and if you deleted such a post of mine I wouldn’t have the right to complain. If you didn’t the other person, the one I offend would defend him/her self by calling me names and s/he had all the right to do it because it was clear from the beginning that this wasn’t allowed.
Thank you for the positive picture of what we do need in Shared Readings. It connects up with a reading I did about the forum's highest potential, which I'll post over there.When I have a question and I need help, I open I new thread. Maybe what everybody reads is “I met that man, he asked me to go on a date I asked Yi , Yi said this but I can’t understand its answer”. What I don’t find necessary to write is “ I know there are sad things happened all over the words, kids die in Africa, the climate has change , and the economy collapse but this specific moment My Big problem is whether or not is a good step to go to that date. I need your help to understand what Yi says. I ask help only from those who want to help me , not from everybody who wants something else.
I liked more the word “friends” in the title of the now called Shared reading. It makes more clear what the querent needs and which people are welcome. And it makes more obvious his/her right to say to an intruder that s/he is not welcome.
And to paraphrase Yi’s 58 “The querent comes together with friends for discussion and rehearsing”this is how I see “shared reading". This is the forum I want.
I’m really grateful because I came here and found friends to help me, to teach me, to support me. It was the first time I came across with Yi. Yi for me was nothing till then, I though it was another fortune telling tool and I’m glad I stick to it. I now see newbies, some of them really interesting to learn about it, trying to find they way, and we don’t really help them. We don’t give the space to experiment, to ask, to ask again, to experiment. Only the strongest survive. The others run away to safe them self from the bullets one throws to another. Some of them would leave anyway but someothers would stay if the could.
Maria
Yes, the last thing I want to introduce is a system that replaces people talking to one another. Except that... if there could be a system that made it easier for people to talk without shouting at each other in public, I'd like that. Providing a polite way to say 'your post is way off the rails' could be a good one.It seems if there are too many' buttons and whistles' the humanity of the forum might disappear.I don't have a problem with anonymous flagging as most people are not going to flag anything if they are afraid of getting flack for it.
Hilary
Are you adding a "Thank you" button? I looked at that link posted in the last post you made...and that is what I made of it. lol
This is so much like my reading it's uncanny. I must post it next.Maria, I am glad you share your thoughts and remain passionate! I have a hard time understanding exactly what you are saying in this post......sorry, I think it is me....
I think you are saying that there needs to be continuing openness to all questions, regardless of how small or seemingly trivial. I agree with that. The space to experiment is really what shared readings is all about. The more I think about it, that seems a really good possible outcome to all this discussion..the idea that many can and hopefully will provide ideas and methods and intepretations without fear of being chastised , or fearing to step on someone else's reading. and the posters can freely ask any kind of question.
And maybe Open Space is better left for the yin-yang bunnies to roam uninterrupted. I'm thinking I could create a sub-forum of Open Space called just 'Moderation' where people could start discussions about people, and I could move any discussions that were tending to become about people.I was going to reply to this because I thought it was about Shared Readings, and then I realized it reads "Open Space"...
But it's not this single post, it's the whole thread: its subject is undoubtedly "Open Space", yet we are all talking about what happens in Shared Readings.
I used the Open Space section to post a silly thing about the bunnies who live in front of my office, I didn't know it was also the place where threads are moved from Shared Readings when they take the wrong path...
Um, well... on the other hand, expressing what we do enjoy about it and want to see more of can't be bad, can it? I don't think much self-flagellation is really happening here....The point is that I'm afraid this whole discussion is somewhat of a waste of time and energy. As Meng pointed out, things can't always work well, we are all human, not perfect, we can be wrong sometimes.
(And of course what I'm saying now might well be totally wrong! )
I think we should simply accept this and move on, instead of worrying about how to make things better... complaining that Shared Readings doesn't always work well won't make it a better place, it might even do more harm than good, that's what I think...
Your signature appears on every post where you positively checked a 'show your signature' box. Of course if you had no signature at all when you made the post, you didn't have the option of checking the box, so no signature appears there now....nevertheless I edited my signature, but... why doesn't it show...?
Edit: seems to be only visible in new posts...
But, I get exactly why we're to discuss this-- if it is as I think, it's that, this way, Ms.Hilary can get a real feel for where most of us are at.
Yes, I'm reading. Some more structure, that lets people/ extra-terrestrials get on with it and doesn't put an excess of rules in their way, and not fixating on some impossible perfection so much we don't have time for anything else.
So, Hilary, if you're reading:
My own feelings, thoughts and reactions over a while?
I sometimes think that I'd like to make the suggestion that group therapy be a requirement for anybody that joins *any* group, or at least some individual self awareness/psychotherapy as a prerequisite to discussing things here. ...and yes, I'm saying that tongue in cheek. .
But anyone reading gets how I think a bit now.
What I *know* however is much like Buzzurro said, Bambo said, Chris/Javalava said,many others I can't remember and i said above--we'll get through it ,people are people, not everyone will like me. we'll not all agree --you know-- all that.
I don't like to have many rules.But we do need some sort of structure.
End of long ramble-thoughts.
Maria, I am glad you share your thoughts and remain passionate! I have a hard time understanding exactly what you are saying in this post......sorry, I think it is me....
You see anonymous flagging from the point of view of the flagger, not wanting to paint a big target on his/her back maybe, and Lise sees it from the point of view of the 'flaggee', who might be left bewildered and discouraged. Both good points of view, no obvious way to make it comfortable for both, risk of people getting into retaliatory bouts of mutual flagging... well, that would be better than a shouting match, but I think I'm going off the flagging idea, at least for now. We already have a self-moderating forum, without buttons.
Yes, I hope to add a 'thank you' button. Can't completely promise, as there is technical stuff involved, but that's the idea. I like it better than a 'no, thank you' button. (Though the same person who made the 'thank you' add-on also made a 'groan' add-on!)
Buzzuro, I don't know if I followed your last statement.
Did you mean you have a feeling that this current issue and concern is also in actuality an overreaction that someone(s) has about offending/hurting someone else?
That's right, the problem is that I'm only able to show one hand at a time...Um, well... on the other hand, expressing what we do enjoy about it and want to see more of can't be bad, can it? I don't think much self-flagellation is really happening here.
That's an interesting idea, I only doubt if Moderation could be the right title...I'm thinking I could create a sub-forum of Open Space called just 'Moderation' where people could start discussions about people, and I could move any discussions that were tending to become about people.
You mean when you can't put new wine in old bottles just change the label on the old bottle ?
Actually I rather like 'Moderation' as a title - probably for all the same reasons that you have doubts .
:bows:There should be a place where you can vent.
Sorry, I wanted to explain it better, but I had to make a phone call to be reminded of the details. In a forum dedicated to the fans of an Italian songwriter they opened a section called Incazzatoio, a not-so-polite neologism that could be roughly translated as Angry Ones' Corner, or maybe Raging Space. And it worked even better than expected: not only they got rid of flames in the rest of the forum, but also in the Incazzatoio section, they started to post about any reason for them to be angry, and most of the times they had nothing to do with other users of the forum. So, by creating a sub-forum dedicated to flames, they almost completely extinguished them!
:bows:
Sorry, I wanted to explain it better, but I had to make a phone call to be reminded of the details. In a forum dedicated to the fans of an Italian songwriter they opened a section called Incazzatoio, a not-so-polite neologism that could be roughly translated as Angry Ones' Corner, or maybe Raging Space. And it worked even better than expected: not only they got rid of flames in the rest of the forum, but also in the Incazzatoio section, they started to post about any reason for them to be angry, and most of the times they had nothing to do with other users of the forum. So, by creating a sub-forum dedicated to flames, they almost completely extinguished them!
:bows:
some people don't like the little annoyances, some people don't like the big ones . .
I'd say that sticking with the exclamation triangle (so called 'report post' button) is a good thing but I'd suggest it appears not when we are logged in, but be right there with the 'reply' button -easy access could encourage more people to express their discontent, since we all see what annoys us but most of us won't go into logging in just to express discontent, which is good IMHO- let's encourage comments as well as the need to laconically express discomfort
The thing is, in order for threads to flow creatively in the main forums, someone has to -occasionally- keep an eye on them and provide focus when things get out of hand . . the fan yao 59.5 of Hilary's reading also points towards that, that there should be a supporting/focusing structure that saves the day . . Lastly, if Hilary feels she needs to delegate that or not, depends on her own evaluation of things and should be respected by all. If we trust her decisions in moderating why not trust her decisions in delegating?IMO trial and error is the best way to find what works .
I don't want anyone here to step in as a moderator, at least I'd wonder what they thought of themselves to even take the role ! I only trust Hilarys decisions in moderating because she knows whats shes doing, doesn't always rely on rules, can always see both sides and of course knows the history of Clarity, knows how things tend to play out...she could probably write a thesis on 'internet forums : interpersonal politics and dynamics in the unmoderated forum". What would someone who has been here a year, never 'flamed' (ie probably new ager ) actually know about anything here
pah !
I'd say that sticking with the exclamation triangle (so called 'report post' button) is a good thing but I'd suggest it appears not when we are logged in, but be right there with the 'reply' button -easy access could encourage more people to express their discontent, since we all see what annoys us but most of us won't go into logging in just to express discontent, which is good IMHO- let's encourage comments as well as the need to laconically express discomfort
. .
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).