overall life diagnosis interpretation

[toganm]

What does expansiveness mean, I wonder, in this context? Expanding physically/financially? Expanding by taking on more work or responsibility?

Hex 44 being one of the tidal hexagrams is the beginning of decay ( there is still time to harvest though). As time passes things will decay till one reaches hexagram 23 (interms of the tidal hexagrams).

Hex 2. line one is the explanation of Hex 44 line 1 ( when there are 4 lines I read the unchanging ones with the lower being the ruling line)

So overall I would meditate and slow down, give myself time to digest and understand what is happening or happened around me. Asking further questions at this time would only create more confusion untill I have an understanding of what is root cause of the decay.

Hope this gives a better picture
Togan

 

[elizabeth]

Okay, slow down, that makes sense. Kind of like "Don't decide now, give yourself time to let it all sink in first". Not only does it make sense, but I like it! Way easier than trying to make the decisions facing me that's for sure... Thanks Togan

 

[Sparhawk]

Okay, slow down, that makes sense. Kind of like "Don't decide now, give yourself time to let it all sink in first". Not only does it make sense, but I like it! Way easier than trying to make the decisions facing me that's for sure... Thanks Togan

Ahem, BTW, that's what I meant about going with your heart and not exposing yourself to confusion by trying to "average" interpretations. "Your" question, "your" answer. Yi answers, many times, do not make much sense the moment they are drawn. The best approach for those is the "cow approach": keep chewing on it, swallow and regurgitate the answer until you cannot chew it or regurgitate it anymore At that point, you've been both fed and whatever is of no use, is discarded.

You can almost bet a week's salary that, if there were something worth of immediate attention, the Yi would yell at you loud and clear.

L

 

[elizabeth]

Sparhawk, not to burst your bubble, but Togan was the first and only poster in..one, two, three, *four* pages of posts, to give me that interpretation. So there was no "chewing/regurgitation" of anything here, except between the time my eyes read her words and the time those words registered in my brain. (credit also to willowfox, for she was the only person to even provide an interpretation after i posted; and what Togan wrote made wf's words clearer to me in a different way; credit also to autumn for her kind words and for defending me on my own thread )

Not saying your cow approach was bad, but on this thread there was nothing to consider bc no one was addressing my questions.

 

[Sparhawk]

Sparhawk, not to burst your bubble, but Togan was the first and only poster in..one, two, three, *four* pages of posts, to give me that interpretation. So there was no "chewing/regurgitation" of anything here, except between the time my eyes read her words and the time those words registered in my brain. (credit also to willowfox, for she was the only person to even provide an interpretation after i posted; and what Togan wrote made wf's words clearer to me in a different way; credit also to autumn for her kind words and for defending me on my own thread )

No bursted bubble here. I didn't know I was competing with Toganm... Toganm, was I competing with you? Was this a competition of any sort? On the other hand, I did say what I said about following your heart on post #19 of this thread, only you didn't pay attention to it because it wasn't an interpretation. You didn't get an interpretation from me because I always shy away from interpreting for others and the reason for it was given above: it would only add to the confusion. Bringing the cow back into the pen, for a person that is past a few steps into the study of the Yi is like asking the other cows to chew the hay/answer for them. The calves have no choice but to suckle on their cow-moms but even them eventually wane.

BTW, this is how much I believe in you and your knowledge of the Yi. Take it for what it is: a compliment. (even if the metaphor involve dairy products, methane gas producers and sirloin steaks...)

As for anybody defending you, I didn't realize you were being wronged in any way. There has been some snipping among other members (nothing new there... ) but I don't think you were the target of any of that. I did however misinterpreted the intention of your original question and did say as much a few pages back. If you ever take that path of questioning, consider yourself served an opinion about it.

L

 

[elizabeth]

Well then, compliment gracefully accepted and thanks.

My knowledge of the Yi, however, is pretty limited, unfortunately. Anything i"ve learned has been from this board.

[for clarity: I wasn't saying you or anyone else was in competition, but I came here looking for interpretations -- and yes, you said "follow your heart". But when I"m this confused/overwhelmed/unable to function, I cannot even HEAR my heart. So to say "chew on it" -- i was saying "chew on what?". See the disconnect? Bc until Togan's post, I didnt see anything to chew on or consider. So, our messages were both hitting walls instead of reaching to each other.]

 

[Sparhawk]

[for clarity: I wasn't saying you or anyone else was in competition, but I came here looking for interpretations -- and yes, you said "follow your heart". But when I"m this confused/overwhelmed/unable to function, I cannot even HEAR my heart. So to say "chew on it" -- i was saying "chew on what?".]

LOL! if you'd take it, I'd give you a hug. Alas, you are too far away. Chill out and relax.

A little gnat in the tip of your nose is impossible for one to see but they bite with a kick. Others are also too far to see the gnat and although they may warn you there are gnats around, it will be your nose the one being stung. A mirror is more handy and immediate in those situations.

L

PS: pardon me, I've been reading too many Daoist texts over the years...

 

[willowfox]

Hi elizabeth,

remember this from hex 44, "and avoid the problem people that you meet, keep your distance from them."

 

[bruce_g]

Been enjoying this thread, even the “gnatty” parts.

I think Toganm’s interpretation is closest to my own.

Elizabeth, all of your questions here in the last few weeks seem to have a similar message, and imo, they are along the lines of what Luis is saying: to chill and unwind a bit. There’s nothing to be gained by trying to force more and more concrete answers from things that only time can show you. I’ve tried to say this to you before in your earlier threads, but I think it was quickly dismissed because it wasn’t what you wanted to hear.

 

[Sparhawk]

Been enjoying this thread, even the “gnatty” parts.

Hey, what about the sirloin steaks? Just prepare the grill, I'll be there late afternoon. Wine or beer?

L

 

[elizabeth]

willowfox - yes, thanks for that reminder. I'm trying to determine who those "problem people" are right now. It's as if everyone is in disguise and I have to pick who the killer is...

Bruce - I appreciate your feedback. THe problem is that I have to move quickly on some specific financial decisions now, if i am to move at all. It involves more than just money at this point (involves my job, my livelihood, a sick relative, my dreams, my location and my finances, but is too long to get into in detail here). "just chill" -- is good advice but much easier said than done. Honestly, anyone in a western country right now has NO IDEA...

Also, by nature I am indecisive. I weigh all my options, take a long time before making any big decisions. That is yet another reason I have consulted the Yi. Because I need help picking up speed.

 

[willowfox]

Hi elizabeth,

"It's as if everyone is in disguise and I have to pick who the killer is..."

Agatha Christe's Death on the Volga.

 

[bruce_g]

Elizabeth,

I understand, and I don’t mean to trivialize the urgency of your situation. Even so, before you can make these important decisions it is important to first achieve enough clarity of mind to think through them clearly. Toganm advised to meditate. Whether this is taken literally or generally, it’s good advise, imo.

44 is impetuous and forceful, and clearly this brings what LiSe calls 16, “weaving images”; meaning, ideas or visions which swirl all around inside. Then follows 46, which seeks to enforce its own will power; again forcing the matter. Then comes 62, which reduces big things to smaller, more manageable bite-size pieces.

I have an appointment and can’t elaborate further on this right now. My suggestion is to slow things down in your head a bit, reduce the sense of urgency, gain inner composure. Answers come easier when we allow them to come rather than trying to force them.

 

[elizabeth]

Bruce, thanks. That makes good sense too.

Willowfox -- no kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[autumn]

Autumn, thank you for the attempts to clarify why I began this thread.It must be the proximity to Halloween or something -- I don't understand why it is so difficult to get simple feedback on clear questions but so it is.

Mercury is retrograde in Scorpio.

But I'm not sure we can use the oracle to manipulate how others are going to deal with us.

I must be really lost now. Where did this idea of ‘manipulating how people deal with us’ even come from? As far as I can tell, Elizabeth used a technique everyone has seen being used before. Everyone has seen the word "diagnosis" before. But for some reason, that term was re-interpreted in this thread, and the validity of her method, therefore, was questioned.

If I don't believe in exact timing of events

Which means….calculating timeframes is invalid? And if you think so, how do you know? Have you tried it?

Well I think it can be a matter of speculation if one would create a reality out of alignment with ones higher purpose.

I don’t believe deciding to murder a child is creating a reality that is in alignment with the will of God.

 

[Sparhawk]

I don’t believe deciding to murder a child is creating a reality that is in alignment with the will of God.

Geeze, somebody should have warned poor old Abraham it was all a joke before he went all the way up Mount Moriah. Not nice to pull those trick on an old and arthritic man... LOL!

L

 

[autumn]

So what's your problem with me, then, Luis? I'm not Hispanic, so you decide to twist my meaning? And you know that's what you're doing. I'm not even going to debate it with you. Because actually, that was the problem in the beginning of the thread. Trojan decided to question Elizabeth because she assumed Elizabeth wasn't using Jesed's meaning correctly. As soon as Jesed responded, Trojan said, "Oh, I'm not questioning you".

So, noone is capable of really thinking at all here, they just decide how to respond based on some kind group-mob- mentality.

 

[Sparhawk]

No, no, no Autumn. Don't make that mistake. When I'm joking is no personal at all. When I read something that triggers an association with something funny I don't let it pass. I concentrate on the words and not the person. I'm an equal opportunity jokester and that should be obvious by now.

The dots I cannot connect is where the "being hispanic" or not fits in the whole scheme... You've lost me on that one...

L

 

[elizabeth]

Mercury retrograde, I should have guessed! That explains ALL Of it. Call me when its over, I'll be hiding out until then!

(btw group mob mentality is rampant in certain parts of the world..)

 

[luz]

I know I should keep my mouth shut, but I also don't connect the dots with hispanic. Well, I happen to be hispanic too, so I convinced myself I have the right to speak up here.

Autumn, earlier today you called somebody a b**** (I saw it before you deleted it ) and now you are acting like a bigot. I think you are a very angry person right now, take a time out and come back when you can be nice and perhaps when you get a little sense of humor.

Luis could not have been more good natured throughout this thread, and your attitude is uncalled for.. And his point is very good and very funny.

 

[hilary]

(If I had a smilie with a black eye I'd insert it, but I don't, so I'll just put my head down and charge in...)

Looking at something Elizabeth wrote a few posts or pages ago - I don't believe you need worry about knowing the date associations of hexagrams - especially not when you asked a question about your emotional situation now. Some would say 44 describes the present and 16 describes what's to come. I'd say the two together are a picture of the present moment - like Bruce described it, for instance.

But anyway, you don't have to know these things, nor yet 'the rules about what to read' (we still haven't found those stone tablets with 'rules for reading the Yijing'). All you need is yourself and the imagery. Oh, and time to chew it over, which is harder to come by.

Hexagram 44 indicates you're facing something powerful, uncontrollable, unpredictable - things you can't integrate into your usual patterns or deal with in your usual ways. Who's this powerful woman? Maybe she's Lady Luck - she certainly can't be grasped. Or maybe you see her in the mirror?

And 16 does indeed indicate a rise of Enthusiasm, and also some 'big picture thinking' on your part. While it's possible to get carried away with this and lose contact with reality, it doesn't necessarily mean your enthusiasms are false. Just that you need to stay aware and watch them, like the mahout stays aware when working with his elephant.

A lot of people react to 44 by trying to push that invading unpredictable element away. It sounds as though you'd prefer to ride the wave, if you can.

The moving lines talk about different signs you've received and different influences you've felt, and what you're making of them all. I would suggest looking over these and not worrying about what you can't connect with yet. Pin the reading up on a wall so that when these things do come up, you won't have forgotten it.

Line 2 - there's a fish in the trap. This would be a small, good sign that something is flowing your way - or at least, you can feel reasonably confident you're not on completely the wrong track. But the line warns against presuming too much about the future on the basis of this present sign.

Line 3 - being in the right place, responding to the right signs and doing the right work is not necessarily easy or comfortable. Far from it. An 'I didn't ask for this!' moment, perhaps. It's awkward, painful and dangerous - but that still doesn't make it wrong.

Line 5 - some wonderful gift falls into your lap as if from heaven. Lovely! Now, what is it? It could turn out to be some whole new way of living or working. The important thing is to care for the gift, hope you can shape it into a useful form. But you can be pretty sure that it won't be what you expected or hoped for.

Line 6 - after all this, you could be forgiven for trying to ward off the unknown or bring it forcibly under control. Instead of a courtship dance with the unknown, you have a trial of strength. , but - Yi reassures you for the third time in four lines - not a mistake. Sometimes this is just the best anyone can do.

 

[Sparhawk]

(If I had a smilie with a black eye I'd insert it, but I don't, so I'll just put my head down and charge in...)

Your wishes are my command:

L

 

[hilary]

Exactly. You've really captured the ears.

 

[autumn]

Autumn, earlier today you called somebody a b**** (I saw it before you deleted it ) and now you are acting like a bigot. I think you are a very angry person right now, take a time out and come back when you can be nice and perhaps when you get a little sense of humor.

Again, the opposite. I was pointing out the differences in how posts are reacted to based on who posted. That wouldn't make me the bigot.

Luis says he was making a joke. Ok. I read it as dis-crediting what I am saying. And THAT post was in response to someone else being dis-credited. If you read this thread from the beginning, she was even criticized for posting the full text of Wilhelm. That's just petty.

It makes me angry when people are treated inconsistenly and unfairly.

 

[luz]

Autumn,

Why do you see this as an endless circle of people "discrediting" each other? Luis made a joke that discredited you when you were trying to discredit somebody else... so, by implication, he is siding with the person you were trying to discredit? ... A bit convoluted...

I think you are being a bit too defensive, perhaps you could try to see that different people express themselves in different ways and they are not necessarily attacking anybody.

Luis made a joke about your post because it was the post that inspired a joke in him, it doesn't say anything about you or about your ideas. Trojan said what came to her mind, wondered about a word or a concept, I don't think it was meant as an attack, she was perhaps thinking out loud, it could have initiated a discussion about any of these things. I am pretty sure she wasn't tryint to attack anybody.

I have read the thread. And I agreed with Trojan when she said posting the Wilhelm text is not necessary. I don't think it is. Not everybody uses Wilhelm for their readings and if they do, I don't see anybody complaining because other people are not posting the text. I know Elizabeth got this idea from somebody else, it was long ago, I don't remember details but I don't see anything insulting in somebody saying "this is not necessary". In my opinion, it makes the post less readable.

As for the rest, well, these things have a way of getting out of hand...

In a forum like this, more so than in the real world, it can be difficult to 'divine' the intentions of other people but I think the least we can do is give each other the benefit of the doubt and also try to learn a little bit about the way each person expresses themselves, so we know that if they are being blunt they mean no harm.

 

[autumn]

excuse me for being here

I completely disagree about the tone of this thread. I don't know how anyone could miss the critical tone of this thread. It seems obvious to me that for the first 3 pages, Elizabeth defends her right to ask the question. And it's not as if it's a new thing to ask a diagnosis question, and noone has ever seen it before. Hollis asked one over Labor Day, and noone felt the need to criticize the question.

I happened to understand her question, simply because I have paid attention to that method, so I tried to help clarify her meaning. Trojan's first words are, "I'm not stupid". I never said she was. Was I defensive? No. She was defensive. I then clarified my point, and she says, among other things, "I have a right to post what I want", and "Whoops, sorry, there was something you didn't ask for", apparently in reaction to me asking for greater sensitivity and less criticism in a Friends' thread when the questions are about a person's life.

But is she being criticized here for that attitude, which is downright B******? No. I am being criticized.

I don't see the remark about the sacrifice of Issac as being light-hearted. I don't read it that way at all. Perhaps that's because I was being quite serious when I said, "I do not believe that it is in anyone's highest good to choose to kill a child", as I was thinking about the horror that occurs every single day on this planet.

And you cannot help notice that Sparkhark withdrew his criticism of Elizabeth's question when he made the connection to Jesed's method. You also cannot help noticing that Trojan was twice as defensive to my post than she was to Jesed's defense of his method, and he insulted her use of the English language. (Which I thought he had every right to. I would have done the same.)

 

[Sparhawk]

And you cannot help notice that Sparkhark withdrew his criticism of Elizabeth's question when he made the connection to Jesed's method. You also cannot help noticing that Trojan was twice as defensive to my post than she was to Jesed's defense of his method, and he insulted her use of the English language. (Which I thought he had every right to. I would have done the same.)

Hmmm, I believe you've got the wrong impression of my advise to Elizabeth on post #2 of this thread. It wasn't, to begin with, a "criticism", not at all, it was some "advise". Granted, I did misinterpreted the intention and the scope of her question but it was advise, nevertheless. When I posted that, I wasn't even making a connection to Rodrigo's (Jessed) method, only to what I mistakenly thought the scope of her question was.

One other thing, you can count on me making jokes based on the words of others if I read something that tickles me (and believe me, there's plenty that tickles me). I've a disturbing disposition for twisting semantics. I'm fair too: I'm the first to laugh when I'm at the receiving end of it.

L

 

[autumn]

Sparhawk,

The one thing I can back off of here is that I can see I did take your joke the wrong way. I didn't read it that way. That's a downfall of trying to interact with real people through words on a screen.

My comment was flip. I was trying to point out that when people here are already liked and respected, like Jesed is, then people are less likely to personally criticize. On the other hand, when someone is new or doesn't post as much, like Elizabeth, and is coming from a position of vulnerability, because they are asking very personal questions, others can be more critical of them. But I have also made that mistake when responding to people. My sense of indignation here was about this being a "friends" post, and lately there seems there is more arguing than helping. I intend to take my own advice and limit participating in arguments when they swirl around someone's life questions.

 

[luz]

Okay, I re-read the beginning of the thread.
Ithink the only reason there was so much back and forth about the questions is that Elizabeth first posted them in one way and then she changed them.
So Luis and Trojan read them in the original way and Luis wondered if he had seen a mirage and Trojan told him no, she had read the same.. I don't think anybody was criticizing them in a non-constructive way. I, for one, was not aware that this particular line of questioning is related to some specific method.

Well. the ethnic remark caught my attention. Perhaps I became a bit over defensive myself? FWIW, I don't think Trojan is hispanic, so the theory, if that is what it was, doesn't fit.

In any case, thanks for discussing this with me without getting too defensive. I do appreciate it.
Wonder when mercury retrograde will leave planet Clarity

 

[autumn]

Well. the ethnic remark caught my attention. Perhaps I became a bit over defensive myself? FWIW, I don't think Trojan is hispanic, so the theory, if that is what it was, doesn't fit.

It didn't apply to Trojan, only to Sparhawk, but I never even considered someone taking it as a racist comment. That didn't cross my mind. My ex-husband is brown-skinned. Not my intention, by any stretch of the imagination. I was angry about the group dynamics, and that was it, and really took the joke as an argumentative comment, instead of in the spirit he intended. I was mistaken.