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patience in awaiting firm commitment? 53.5>52 (twice!)

folledeschiele

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Hello friends,

Thank you again for your incredible insight on my last post...I have been working to heal my insecurities and stop constantly asking for reassurance from my partner, instead trying to rewire my brain and heart to stop assuming the worst. I'm feeling confident that I can change for the better and conquer these old demons. Still, I've been unable to kick a sense anxiety surrounding the future for my partner and I. She's quite a few years younger than I am, and I find myself feeling afraid that she'll change her mind and leave me, just when I thought we were on the same page. I really want to marry her and have a family, and in the past months she has been the one to allude to the possibility of this kind of future for us, which made me very happy. It seemed we were really on the same page. I have been letting her set the pace, in part because she's younger and I don't want to pressure her.

But in the past month or so, I've detected a slight change. Her work-related stress has been intense, and she seems less sure of what she wants/seems very confused about her life in general. She's applying to start a PhD, and it's possible that it represents such a huge commitment that she doesn't have mental space to think about other big commitments...eg us. She says she still wants a future, and loves me, but seems less enthusiastic and hasn't been talking much about the future anymore. I don't want to just be strung along, and end up heartbroken if for some reason she decides I don't fit into her life. We have been together for nearly a year, so I realize it's still early days.

I asked the Yi what I should do about this anxiety/concern for the future, and drew 53, changing line 5, to 52. It seems to be counseling patience, not letting " my heart go past the current situation"", and does seem to indicate that a firmer commitment might be solidified further down the line, after some misunderstandings (perhaps where we are now??). Does anyone have any insight into this, and specifically in terms of what I can do to increase my chances of seeing us through this slightly rough patch in our relationship, and getting back on the same page? It's hard not to discuss this openly with her, but I don't want to force anything. 53 seems to be counseling this too...to be long-lasting and deep, my influence should come not through force but through developing my character.

I really think this is the woman I want to spend my life with, and I'm terrified of screwing things up with my anxieties. Any help/counsel would be much appreciated. Thank you!:)
 

angelatlantis14

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Hello friends,

Thank you again for your incredible insight on my last post...I have been working to heal my insecurities and stop constantly asking for reassurance from my partner, instead trying to rewire my brain and heart to stop assuming the worst. I'm feeling confident that I can change for the better and conquer these old demons. Still, I've been unable to kick a sense anxiety surrounding the future for my partner and I. She's quite a few years younger than I am, and I find myself feeling afraid that she'll change her mind and leave me, just when I thought we were on the same page. I really want to marry her and have a family, and in the past months she has been the one to allude to the possibility of this kind of future for us, which made me very happy. It seemed we were really on the same page. I have been letting her set the pace, in part because she's younger and I don't want to pressure her.

But in the past month or so, I've detected a slight change. Her work-related stress has been intense, and she seems less sure of what she wants/seems very confused about her life in general. She's applying to start a PhD, and it's possible that it represents such a huge commitment that she doesn't have mental space to think about other big commitments...eg us. She says she still wants a future, and loves me, but seems less enthusiastic and hasn't been talking much about the future anymore. I don't want to just be strung along, and end up heartbroken if for some reason she decides I don't fit into her life. We have been together for nearly a year, so I realize it's still early days.

I asked the Yi what I should do about this anxiety/concern for the future, and drew 53, changing line 5, to 52. It seems to be counseling patience, not letting " my heart go past the current situation"", and does seem to indicate that a firmer commitment might be solidified further down the line, after some misunderstandings (perhaps where we are now??). Does anyone have any insight into this, and specifically in terms of what I can do to increase my chances of seeing us through this slightly rough patch in our relationship, and getting back on the same page? It's hard not to discuss this openly with her, but I don't want to force anything. 53 seems to be counseling this too...to be long-lasting and deep, my influence should come not through force but through developing my character.

I really think this is the woman I want to spend my life with, and I'm terrified of screwing things up with my anxieties. Any help/counsel would be much appreciated. Thank you!:)
Hi Folle,

as a matter of fact, I dn not quite agree with your analysis about 53 being about you and being patient for the sake of developing your relationship. This would certainly be the obvious interpretation, but since you were good enough to give us some background on the situation of the question, it looks different to me.
Please don't take the following words as a criticism of you - I really don't know you or your girlfriend or the situation. I am only going by what you wrote and you can take this or leave it as you wish :)
You write about your girlfriend being insecure and confused right now, and considering making a change by applying for a PD. Now all I see from your reaction is the fear that this would take away commitment from you. I am missing a bit the desire on your part to support your girl, to help HER through the crisis she is going through. You seem to see all events in her and your life strongly in the light of what they might do for your relationship. Well no matter how good or intense a relationship is, it is never the only thing in anyones life... In this sense I feel that Hex 53 is about her not you - about how she needs to develop herself and even if it takes long (line 5) how she can be successfull. If any move she makes is met by an anxiety attack by you, that will make her feel a) unappreciated for herself, other than in her role as your partner and b) stifled in her attempts to develop her life. Therefore, the best thing you can do right now is to still your fears (Hex 52), and truly and wholeheartedly support her in what is important for her now.
If she right now is not so sure about increasing her commitment to you, there is nothing you can do about it anyways - but if you show her that you support her, you'll keep the door open for the future.

Again, apologies if anything I said is a misrepresentation of the situation - this is the result I am getting from the limited information I have.

Hope this helps and you two can work it out!

maui
 

folledeschiele

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Maui, thank you-- this is very wise. I have thought about that alot and am trying to not "make it all about me" since I know my partner is very stressed and a bit at sea at the moment...I'm trying to concentrate on being stable and loving and supportive, rather than ask too many stressful questions. That's why I asked the Yi how I should deal with my insecurities/anxieties on my own, since I don't feel it's the right time to talk about these big future-oriented questions with my partner right now. I do need to focus on being a good partner and supporting her, rather than letting myself get eaten up by anxiety. This is a very helpful reminder, thank you. It's simply that I've been very hurt in the past, in relationships where I was committed and wanted more but the other person had one foot out. And until recently, I felt blissfully secure in this relationship, because we really seemed to want the same things, and openly so. Her silence on the question of the future scares me, and makes me worry I'll get my heart broken again. But it's of no use to fret. I need to find a way to just operate in the present moment, for now, work on inner stability and calm.
 

angelatlantis14

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Hi Folle,

sounds like you are on the right track :)
I know how difficult it is to put this kind of bad past experiences behind you - you think you are over it, but the moment somethng happens that reminds you of a past experience, the train of thoughts starts right again, taking you to the same old place...

But being aware of the problem, as you are, is IMO already a big advancement. You can only do the best you can, and the rest has to play out by itself.
I am wishing you all the best of luck!

maui
 
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Folle,
I've thought 53 is great for relationship and marriage. Its a slow, steady progress, but looks good to me. Just looks like it might take a long while. 52 is stilling yourself as if in meditation. So as not to have axiety. But I believe 52 has the image of 2 mountains joined. I wish you the best with this.
 

precision grace

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I think the counsel is to live in the moment. All your insecurities stem from thinking about the past and the future, and if you do that, you cannot live in the present moment. So live in the present and let the future take care of itself.
 

ginnie

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I really want to marry her and have a family ... She says she still wants a future, and loves me, but seems less enthusiastic and hasn't been talking much about the future anymore.
I'm wondering if you communicated to her adequately the fact that you really do want to marry her and start a family. For some reason, she seems to have embarked on "Plan B" with this talk about applying for a Ph.D. and the two courses of action seem to me to be somewhat conflicting, at least in the short run. Is there any way the two of you could openly discuss what is causing her to want a Ph.D. just now, when your mind was set on marriage? I think it would be better for you to get the issue out there on the table, so you'll know better what is on her mind. The line you got from Yi was very favorable about reaching your desired goal, but it did not say it would happen automatically. You may have to put yourself forward and have a serious discussion -- when you're in a calm mood, it goes without saying. :)
 

yasmin

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Hi there,

I am new at this, so please take this comment in that light! I recently cast 53.5>52, and it was about someone having to work through some personal issues (co-dependency) before they were able to move forward in a relationship. The line promises that eventually they will get there - but only assuming they take the time for stillness, introspection and self examination.

By analogy, I wonder...Could either you or she or both of you need some introspection on your relationship? Could it be that she needs to experience the road to the PhD before she can commit?

You asked what you could do about your feelings of anxiety, and I may be mistaken, but it seems you are hoping for her to do something to allay your concerns,ie looking for the solution outside yourself. I wonder if this cast suggests refocusing on yourself. Finding peace on the inside. Maybe you both need time.

How would you feel about delaying a decision on marriage until she has her PhD, and using the time to perhaps work through the source of your own anxiety issues? For what its worth (And this may be entirely irrelevant to your situation) i found the book by Pia Melody on Facing Love Addiction quite illuminating.
 
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ginnie

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Responding to the last post, by Yasmin, I wanted to say that sounds very reasonable. Yet, what is there about her going for her Ph.D. degree that could interfere with them getting married? I can see putting off having a baby until the degree was completed, but I don't see the logic of putting off the marriage.

When an individual is doing the work required for the Ph.D., they are often very busy and distracted for years. Often they require support of an emotional kind and maybe other kinds as well as they go through that grueling process.

Does she plan to work in a particular field requiring a Ph.D.? If so, does that mean both of them would hopefully be working after she gets her degree? I wanted to say that the job market for people with advanced degrees has shrunk remarkably in the past decades so that many people no longer plan to go to school for long periods of time to get degrees that don't lead anywhere. Here in NYC, people with Ph.D.s apply for part-time jobs as file clerks or typists sometimes because there is no other work to be found.

I get the impression that both you and she are having trouble discussing these issues at the present time. Maybe the best thing to do would be to do nothing until all these issues have been explored.
 

yasmin

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Ginnie, just to clarify- my point was that,as the question was "how to deal with anxiety", perhaps the marriage decision may not be te root cause of the anxiety problem, just the tip of the iceberg. Maybe even if they marry, someother sourçe of anxiety may surface, like when to have kids, how many, how to manage dual careers, whatever. When one partner feels in some way threatened by the other partner's ambitions, something needs to be worked on - communication, problem solving, possibly deeper issues about values and expectations around marriage, whatever - as you suggest.

Maybe what the cast suggests is holding still (52), taking the time, plenty of time (53.5) to adress the root cause of anxiety (perhaps enough time for her to get her PhD in parralel, if thats what she wants), before settling down. Why not a long engagement? Time to practice working as a team to adress big life decisions.
 

ginnie

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I asked the Yi what I should do about this anxiety/concern for the future, and drew 53, changing line 5, to 52. ... Does anyone have any insight into this, and specifically in terms of what I can do to increase my chances of seeing us through this slightly rough patch in our relationship, and getting back on the same page? It's hard not to discuss this openly with her, but I don't want to force anything.
53.5 is reassuring in that it says you will reach your goal if you keep it in mind and keep working toward it. Maybe there will be openings when you will be able to discuss these issues openly with her without forcing anything. 53.5 usually develops naturally enough, if you persist, even though it takes some time.
:)
 

meng

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I think the counsel is to live in the moment. All your insecurities stem from thinking about the past and the future, and if you do that, you cannot live in the present moment. So live in the present and let the future take care of itself.
:bows:

There's an element of steadiness associated with 52, reliability. Are you someone she can lean on and count on? If so, does she know that? And if so, then you're probably also a bit stubborn (you get the icing that's on the cake).

52/53 both offer security and a place to develop.
 

folledeschiele

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2 years on...and same hexagram combination pulled in relation to same question!

Wow, I stumbled upon this thread because I just pulled the exact same hexagram combination...in relation to the same relationship, two years on. 53 wasn't kidding about this being a long-term process requiring patience!

Here's the story: we've been happily living together for nearly two years, and things have only gotten stronger between us (we know and love each other's families, have discussed having a family in the future, etc etc). It was all on what felt like a blissful, albeit slow-developing, track.

Then last month I proposed marriage. She didn't say no, but asked for more time to "process" the idea. She got very emotional and said she was moved beyond belief, loves me and knows for certain I'm the one she wants to be with, but feels young still and isn't quite ready to make the jump to being engaged. She explained that it was like standing on a high diving board knowing she would jump, but needing to catch a few more breaths before taking the plunge. She also says she wants to be proactive about the decision and not just respond passively, but really "own" the process and decision to get engaged herself.

Things are still going well with us but I am emotionally very up and down about it. If she's so sure I'm the one and, as she claims, she's not "keeping her options open", why the inability to accept my proposal? I told her we can wait as long as she wants and it can be a long engagement. She is now in the final year of her PhD, and I just finished. I am also a decade older (she's 26), so the age issue is one that comes up periodically. I just feel bewildered and insecure. I have no idea how long it'll take for her to respond to this, finally, and I feel frustrated and hurt at her inability to make a decision. The mean part of me feels like telling her to grow up and take a stand, make a choice. But I sense that I need to tread very carefully here.

Today I asked the YI what to do, and first thought about making an ultimatum and arguing that leaving me in no man's land isn't fair to me. I got 56.1.6-- a clear warning, I think, to not act rashly and violently lest I ruin everything and lose her (the warning is very strong in line 6).

So I drew again, asking what path I should follow to give us the best chance of stability and keeping the future open to being on the same page, eventually. I once again drew 53.5>52, and re-reading this thread from two years ago, the advice seems uncannily similar. There's clearly a pattern here.

Sigh. Any advice welcome. She assures me day after day that she wants to build a life with me, believes in us, wants a family at some point and is happy I proposed to her, because it's started a process. The only thing that seems to be hurting me is my own deep fear that she may end up breaking my heart or that she's stringing me along. But she's been a consistently loving and trustworthy partner, so why can't I trust this? I would very much appreciate feedback or counsel in this moment of painful transition. I hope it's just growing pains, and not the end of us.

Thanks for listening!:bows:
 

folledeschiele

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PS-- I have also drawn hexagram 1, lines changes at 1 and 5, changing to 50 twice. I take that as a heartening sign that while I need to lay low now, eventually things will come together. Maybe we're "cooking" something right now-- transforming the relationship? It's hard to make objective readings when my heart is so set on a positive answer.
 

ginnie

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My feeling is that she will need to complete her Ph.D. before being able to turn her full attention to the relationship she has with you. But your readings leave no doubt that eventually things will work out to your satisfaction! Yeah, I agree with you, it's a long time to wait, and doubts creep in. However, don't let your doubts get the better of you!
 

folledeschiele

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thanks

Thanks Ginnie! I'm trying to trust, slay those old demons of insecurity and anxiety, and just accept that this is a long-unfolding, beautiful relationship that does seem to put down deeper and deeper roots with time. I'm not the most patient person, but this is teaching me a valuable lesson: sometimes the most beautiful things take a long, long time to develop and come to fruition. I'll try to enjoy the ride and not obsess about the destination.
 
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mirian

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Hi folledeschiele , so the Yi is giving reassurance that your reading is still very much valid two years on! I think that is really great that your reading is so consistent and clear. I totally understand that this is not what you want to hear. But I just want to say that the Yi is making crystal clear that this is what you need - a process of development and growth that takes its own time.

This process involves both of you, not only her. Just think about how much you have been through together in the last two years, how much you have learnt about each other, how many things you have experienced, so you are not really waiting for something to happen, you are having a life !

Maybe if you had got married two years ago you could be heading to a divorce by now, have you thought about it? :D
So, you both seem to be having the benefit of the time represented by 53.5 since she has her insecurities and you have yours. I think that if you are both happy you should really value the relationship for what it is and let 53.5 take its action in time.

As for 56.1.6, trust me you don't really want to go there. I had this reading about a relationship in 2004 and it was nasty. So, please drop that idea associated to this reading.
 

folledeschiele

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Hi folledeschiele , so the Yi is giving reassurance that your reading is still very much valid two years on! I think that is really great that your reading is so consistent and clear. I totally understand that this is not what you want to hear. But I just want to say that the Yi is making crystal clear that this is what you need - a process of development and growth that takes its own time.

This process involves both of you, not only her. Just think about how much you have been through together in the last two years, how much you have learnt about each other, how many things you have experienced, so you are not really waiting for something to happen, you are having a life !

Maybe if you had got married two years ago you could be heading to a divorce by now, have you thought about it? :D
So, you both seem to be having the benefit of the time represented by 53.5 since she has her insecurities and you have yours. I think that if you are both happy you should really value the relationship for what it is and let 53.5 take its action in time.

As for 56.1.6, trust me you don't really want to go there. I had this reading about a relationship in 2004 and it was nasty. So, please drop that idea associated to this reading.
Many thanks, Mirian, for these beautiful insights. They really do help.
 

folledeschiele

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a moment that augurs well?

Just wanted to share a sweetly uncanny thing that happened a couple of days ago: my partner started calling me her "arbol" (tree in Spanish) as a term of endearment, noting that I'm like a harbor/refuge for her and observing that the etymology of the two words "harbor" and "arbor" are the same. I said I liked this term of endearment; it was apropos, and she asked what mine would be for her. I said, "The same, my little tree".

Then she turned and embraced me and said, "well, we'll be like two magnificent trees that grow roots together and around each other over time".

It immediately made me remember that the traditional image for Hexagram 53 is a tree, and the image of the gradual laying of roots. This all struck me as uncanny and very fitting indeed!

I think I'm going to just embrace this process and stop worrying, enjoying the long road we're on. :bows:
 

ginnie

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In the sheltering arms of each other . . .
 

folledeschiele

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Update: we're now engaged, and the lessons of hexagram 53 in retrospect seem so very fitting! I couldn't be happier. I'm not the most patient person, and I would often sigh in frustration when receiving this hex. But I have never been better with someone, and I know that our marriage will be built on deep, longstanding, loving foundations. To my mind, that's one of the real lessons of this hex. The best things take time.
 
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springflower

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Wow folledeschiele you really make my day!
I have received the same answers about my exfiance: 53.5>52 if he is going to act for our relationship and 1.1 1.5>50 If I should hope that we will be together again.. I think we just need time for steady development! Thank you my dear! Wish you the best!
 
S

springflower

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PS. I don't know if this means something but your first post was February 11th, 2013, your last February 17th, 2016. 3 years indeed!
So I think I have to wait 3 years. Unfortunately it will be difficult and painful because we are not together :(
 

folledeschiele

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Another happy update: We tied the knot last month, and I incorporated LIse's image of the "waterwheel" into my vows. Without knowing she would, she talked about two trees growing side by side and intermingling their strong roots over time. This is just incredible. I never knew that taking the YI's counsel would help guide me toward one of the happiest moments of my life. :) This hexagram has literally become a fundamental part of our philosophy and our marriage! Thanks to everyone who counselled me through the long wait. It was worth it...as predicted.
 

equinox

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Wow, a prediction that manifested after such a long time -- congratulations and thank you a lot for the update. It makes it so much easier for us (at least for me) to understand the I-Ching better. I read so many threads here where I'd loved to know about the final outcome.
 

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