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Progress of my comlicated relationship: 64.1.3.6 to 34+ New Reading

marybluesky

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Hello
I met a guy last year & sensed the potential of great connection and attraction between us from the start.
I texted him, he showed interest and our relationship -which was intended to be casual at the time- began. After a few months of mixed signals, he admitted that he had a girlfriend and that he was sorry and ashamed for his behavior. I was very heartbroken as I was falling in love with him. I cut all contacts. He texted me after a month and we restarted chatting. I realized that being in contact was very hard for me while trying to be just friends without the possibility of getting romantic because of his partner.
Since, I've tried to cut things several times, only to start chatting again (he has been the one who initiated most of the time). Now I'm not as emotional as I was during the first months. I love this guy and can't resist communicating with him, though I've did my best not to pass the limits of friendship. Some flirtation occurred, yes, but that's all. And I know being in romantic relationship with a taken guy is harmful to my emotional well being and try hard to prevent so. However I can't help myself dreaming about getting romantic/sexual with him...

I got hexagram 64 (Not Yet Across) changing to 34 (Great Vigour); in other words, 64.1.3.6 to 34, in matters of our relationship. What do you think about that? Where is going this relationship?
 
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Serraluna

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Hi, Marybluesky, I think your response reflects how you are feeling about the relationship. The hexagram 34 talks about wanting to cross, wanting to leave behind a state of affairs in your life, but it is in transit, one has not decided yet. You talk about wanting to cut the relationship (it would be hexagram 63), but you have doubts, you're confused (hexagram 64, it's the situation you're in) and the hexagram 34 could be talking about the need to empower you, what you it is necessary to be able to cross, that is, to leave behind this relationship of which you yourself say you should free yourself. Line 6 of hexagram 64 speaks of having crossed to the other shore and of not looking back, mutates to hexagram 40, liberation: cutting.I do not know if my explanation could have served you.Greetings
 

Trojina

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:confused: you have had a comment but not said if you understood it or what it meant to you ?



What about your own comment on this cast. What do you think of the reading and what does it mean to you ?

If you follow the link in my signature you can see tips on how to post for maximum responses. To me it is quite important a person engages with their own reading to some extent before expecting other's responses. One good reason for that is it is your reading and your sense of it really does matter in interpretation. No use being completely passive in understanding your own reading.
 

marybluesky

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I've read Serraluna's comment and thanked her, however had nothing to add.I also read the link & tried to explain my situation. The result's meaning wasn't clear to me: there are three changing lines with not so positive connotations, then there is hexagram 34- Great Vigour- which can be interpreted as gaining power. I can't understand: 1- How the changing lines that talk about pitfall can lead to a vigourous position, & 2- Where the power is to be manifested? Is it a sign of strengthening the relationship? Or it rather talks about me gaining the strenght to leave it behind?Maybe these interpretations sound simplistic. I'm not that professional.
 

Serraluna

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Hi Marybluesky, from my point of view, the hexagram 64 refers to a process of change that is underway, one wants to cross but still can not do it and the lines of 64 refer to different aspects or problems to be taken into account during that process of leaving a old situation to go to a new one, from chaos to order. The last active line in your run is 6, in which you are warned that if you finally want to cross, you must do so in a determined way and without looking back, if you do not run the risk of falling overboard and losing everything you have achieved until then .I'm not sure if the result is telling you how the relationship with that person is going to progress.I rather see that the result expresses the moment of uncertainty that you are living (hex 64) and the effort, the energy that is assuming (hex 34) the whole situation
 

marybluesky

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Thanks Serraluna. I have been through this conflict since a year. I'm tired ... and still have to be cautious an persevere...
 

Trojina

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The result's meaning wasn't clear to me: there are three changing lines with not so positive connotations, then there is hexagram 34- Great Vigour- which can be interpreted as gaining power. I can't understand: 1- How the changing lines that talk about pitfall can lead to a vigourous position,


ah yes indeed it would make no sense at all to see the change lines leading to 34. See this Blog about that

https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/answers/2013/06/01/the-old-resulting-hexagram-conundrum/


The 2nd hexagram, 34 is your position, the context from which you ask the question. It is not 'the result' but rather the whole 'surround' of the question which might involve aspects of the future but cannot be seen just as 'the future'. In a jar of pickles the relating hexagram would be the vinegar and the primary the pickles ;)

& 2- Where the power is to be manifested? Is it a sign of strengthening the relationship? Or it rather talks about me gaining the strenght to leave it behind?Maybe these interpretations sound simplistic. I'm not that professional.


No need to be professional, anyone can talk to Yi and hear the answers. I think Serraluna made some good points but going back to your question

Progress of my comlicated relationship: 64.1.3.6 to 34
Hello
I met a guy last year & sensed the potential of great connection and attraction between us from the start.
I texted him, he showed interest and our relationship -which was intended to be casual at the time- began. After a few months of mixed signals, he admitted that he had a girlfriend and that he was sorry and ashamed for his behavior. I was very heartbroken as I was falling in love with him. I cut all contacts. He texted me after a month and we restarted chatting.


I'm wondering if he came up with a 'girlfriend' in order to create distance between you. Well clearly he did since he didn't speak of her at the beginning when he wanted to be close to you.


I don't like the sound of this at all...64 can be about things left perpetually open ended and my sense is is that he wants to leave this open ended. What he is doing is managing your emotions. You were getting intense so he pulled back but then decided he wanted just a bit of you so started texting again. Cruel. If he were a man of any emotional strength or integrity he'd be clear in his actions to you. If he doesn't want you close then he can't expect to come back for the amount of you he does want !

I realized that being in contact was very hard for me while trying to be just friends without the possibility of getting romantic because of his partner.


Not just hard but a ridiculously unrealistic goal. Of course you can't just be friends.


Since, I've tried to cut things several times, only to start chatting again (he has been the one who initiated most of the time). Now I'm not as emotional as I was during the first months. I love this guy and can't resist communicating with him, though I've did my best not to pass the limits of friendship. Some flirtation occurred, yes, but that's all. And I know being in romantic relationship with a taken guy is harmful to my emotional well being and try hard to prevent so. However I can't help myself dreaming about getting romantic/sexual with him...


Well no I don't suppose you can. This really isn't good for you and what's more you should realize this is quite manipulative on his part. He wants to keep you there, at arms length as an option by the sound of it without ever recognizing that he has any degree of responsibility for your emotional welfare. Don't give your heart to someone like this.

I got hexagram 64 (Not Yet Across) changing to 34 (Great Vigour); in other words, 64.1.3.6 to 34, in matters of our relationship. What do you think about that? Where is going this relationship


As lines 1 and 6 change it's as if the whole thing is a loop - from which my sense of this answer is that this will be a never ending in between kind of a thing where nothing is ever realized and everything is always in a state of not quite being there. It's also very hard work and takes up a huge amount of your strength (line 3). Is it worth it ? No I don't think so but you might. Line 6 does presage success of a long awaited goal so who knows maybe this will come good and he will step up and stop acting like a total drip - could be.


I wouldn't put money on it though.


Sometimes I see an answer as a big picture and this is one of them where I just see a never ending of a crossing of a stream. Who wants to be stuck midstream for ever. But what about the 34, vigorous action, full of self and full of confidence ? Here I'd see it as coming forward breaking through the never ending transition of 64. Not sure. Perhaps one of you will have such drive as to break through this pattern of ongoing 'not being sure where I stand' ? The image of 34 does say the superior person doesn't go against established ways so there may be a warning about doing things that aren't correct or are damaging to others such as cheating on his girlfriend - if there is a girlfriend ? I wonder if the 34 is his over confidence in being a good manipulator and liar.


Have you any evidence of this girlfriend ? I don't know why but I suspect she doesn't exist. Often if people want to make distance they suddenly say they have a partner but it's not always true. If there was no girlfriend and he made it up in order to distance you how would you feel ?


There are many many threads right now where women are 'in love with' a man who is with someone else. In such cases there is no ambiguity or complication at all. If he is with someone else and not with you then don't have a relationship with him until he is with you and no one else.
 

marybluesky

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I'm wondering if he came up with a 'girlfriend' in order to create distance between you. Well clearly he did since he didn't speak of her at the beginning when he wanted to be close to you.
I don't know whether the girlfriend is real or not. And it doesn't change the fact that he has been keeping me at arms' length. I suspected his emotional distance from the start. Then he talked about the girlfriend.
I don't like the sound of this at all...64 can be about things left perpetually open ended and my sense is is that he wants to leave this open ended.What he is doing is managing your emotions. You were getting intense so he pulled back but then decided he wanted just a bit of you so started texting again.
It makes sense. I wanted a casual relationship when I met him & he clearly said everything was going to be open. But even then, he wasn't "present" with me and didn't seem to enjoy the moment. He was uncomfortable. He became much more open and trusting after admitting (?) to have a girlfriend. Why did I fall in love with him? I was attracted to him from the start, and he had some traits I appreciated. Then I realized he wasn't going to invest in the relationship as much as I expected.
Well no I don't suppose you can. This really isn't good for you and what's more you should realize this is quite manipulative on his part. He wants to keep you there, at arms length as an option by the sound of it without ever recognizing that he has any degree of responsibility for your emotional welfare. Don't give your heart to someone like this.
I see.
If there was no girlfriend and he made it up in order to distance you how would you feel ?
I would ask him why he needed to create such a pretext, as the relationship was meant to be casual. So he could simply talk about why he needed more space etc- even could easily break up with me as we had no plan for the future (now I want a serious relationship with a reliable partner, but that's another story. I didn't want any commitment one year ego).
If he is with someone else and not with you then don't have a relationship with him until he is with you and no one else.
That's why I distanced myself. The real battle for me, I guess, is to leave behind the hope and romanticism that make me think about him despite all of that.
 

marybluesky

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I cast a new reading about my situation, asking "how my love life is going to change if I try to get rid of this relationship" and I got hexagram 24 unchanging: "Returning".
This hexagram talks about recovery and revival, which sounds positive, but also about coming back to where once I was: my empty romantic life before this guy.
To me it sounds like I should restart from the point zero. Not so exciting.
 

Trojina

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But if it's a wrong path then however exciting it is it will always leads to suffering. Starting again on your own path means you are open again to follow your true values.

It's up to you. Your first cast wasn't the kind of cast one could say 'this is terrible' not by the reading alone because the reading alone could show after much struggle in line 3 there is a victory of a kind, a celebration in line 6.

My personal impression is 'why would you bother', it seems beneath your dignity to me to go for 'mixed signals' and 'casual' -sometimes I think 'casual' is just short hand for 'I will have sex with you but don't care about you or your feelings so don't expect me to care in fact don't expect anything of me at all and be prepared for me to dump you anytime and if I do you have no right to be unhappy because we were only 'casual' ". Sounds like a bum deal to me and I can't see how that really works for most women if they are honest. Well I guess it does work for some but from what I see on these forums it just leads to heartbroken women attempting complicated performance art as 'friends' - it's all so dishonest to yourself .


No point in casual IMO as casual is 64 for ever and ever no river ever crossed and everyone halfway in the river saying they don't even know that they are in a river or even if they want to cross it -


- yes my view of the situation affects my interpretation



Sorry that is opinion and my opinion does affect how I see the cast here so you must decide for yourself I'm just surprised your own sense of dignity isn't a bigger factor. This is no way for you to be treated.
 

marybluesky

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Trojina I agree that "returning" is the right thing to do. I was just venting, in a way a tired person does, knowing that being correct is the best, even if it sounds hard now :)
 

marybluesky

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UPDATE:
This guy has been trying to get closer, calling me to meet him (that I rejected), revealing more about himself, and chatting more often.
I cast a reading and asked: "What is his intention?"
I got 21.1.2.4 >4
21: Biting trough: "Resting content with the appearance may be easier, but it's not enough." I should investigate the situation.
I don't know what to say about the changing lines 1 & 2. The 4th, however, talks about constancy in hardship: I should discover & accept the truth, however hard is this task. Or, he is trying to discover what he doesn't know about me.
The second hexagram: Not Knowing- so I'm not likely to know the entire truth- his intention- despite my efforts. Or, the ignorance is the context in which he is trying to discover the facts.
What do you think of this answer?
 

sylvia1ching

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QUESTION: Where is this relationship going? This is under the guise that he is in a relationship now.

HEX 64: BEFORE COMPLETION

LI-Fire (movement is up) over KAN-water (movement is down). It is synonymous with HEX 12 STANDSTILL.

This hexagram is last hexagram and like I Ching in all of its wisdom expresses an element of hope and possibility in its finality. The transition is possible but difficult. It is littered with obstacles, issues, growth, problems. The difficulty lies in taking two elements that are moving in different directions to move in the same direction of towards one another.

Like you love interest, he is flaming upwards as you hold down fast. His interest is not towards you but to everything else and has no focus. Like fire he has no form. It will take a lot of energy to have the both of you moving in the same direction.

THE JUDGEMENT
Before Completion. Success.
But if the little fox, after nearly completing the crossing,
Gets his tail in the water,
There is nothing that would further.

This situation is littered with issues that must be carefully considered in order for to get the relationship you want. There is maneuvering through his present situation which takes wisdom and careful consideration. If you are being na�ve you are like the young fox. Possibly your desire and your passion for him blinds or has you make decisions that will cause you to be humiliated or hurt. You will be the one that has a loss. Like the little fox the potential for you to "get your tail wet" is great. Do you want that responsibility? Do you not deserve better? The heart is constantly thinking (HEX 52)...it is the movement of the heart that must be considered and that comes from the mind. Is your sexual and emotional passion driving you?

THE IMAGE
Fire over water:
The image of the condition before transition.
Thus the superior man is careful
In the differentiation of things,
So that each finds its place.

Fire moves up and Water moves down. These two are in direct contrast and often in conflict with one another. You get to evaluate the situation and determine where you stand in his life. Knowing what you know you must understand if he is involved you are secondary. If he was truly interested he would have left his girlfriend. The fact that he "later admitted" he has a girlfriend should indicate to you 1) He is not honest 2) It enforces the idea that he is not aligned with you.

Line 1:
Six at the beginning means:
He gets his tail in the water.
Humiliating.

Enthusiasm leads to failure. From the beginning the idea of deception has been established through his lack of honest...of delayed honesty (if I am being generous). It is not your fault it is the lack of integrity that has created humiliation.

Line 3:
Six in the third place means:
Before completion, attack brings misfortune..
It furthers one to cross the great water.

The ability for him to make the transition towards you is incomplete. He is unable to make that transition. The other way to look at it, you cannot make the transition becauseNineyou have been blocked, stopped, deceived...rendering without will. At this time in order to make the right transition it is time to shift your attention to another possibility. Perhaps it is time to move away from him and remained grounded.

Line 6:
Nine at the top means:
There is drinking of wine
In genuine confidence. No blame.
But if one wets his head,
He loses it, in truth.

The possibility of a relationship with this person gives to a new beginning for you. The time you spend communicating creates a fantasy of love and life. The horizon is filled possibility. Your passion for him is sincere the possibility is real and yet there is a warning. The elephant in the room is that he is unavailable (most importantly he is not authentic with you). Your passion blinds you to these restrictions/limitations. You become drunk with idea that causes you a potential unfavorable ending. The duplicitousness of the situation is that like HEX 64 it is filled with possibility and littered with caveats.

HEX 34: TAMING OF THE GREAT
There are two yielding lines in positions 5 and 6 followed by four strong lines in positions 1,2,3,4.

CHEN-thunder/arousing above CHIEN-heaven/strong. Movement and strength. This kind of powerful intention requires a governor to keep it under control.

The power of your passion has taken on a will that is strong and without boundaries. It has overshot the median cause it to be out of control. It is important to "tame" this force. This kind energy or will does not allow you to take notice of what is correct and how to act accordingly. IT IS SIMPLY WILD. It is important to ground yourself. Ground yourself in what is correct.

The movement of the two triagrams are in same the direction. Movement is in accordance to Heaven. This is a good thing. It also suggests that this blind energy, unchecked energy will cause things to not be in harmony with what is right or correct. Established order or the guidance of the mores must be observed such that you know how to make moves.

The thing is that you two may be moving in the same direction but is it the right direction?
 
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marybluesky

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I cast a new reading, asking: "How does he feel about me?".
The result: 27.1 >23

Hexagram 27: Nourishment
I somehow nourish him (his need to boast his ago? to have girls around? to casually flirt?)

Line 1- according to Liu: If you leave your divine tortoise and look at me with mouth drooling, there will be misfortune.
Commentary and notes:
"He who watches with his mouth watering is also unworthy of respect".
"At the outset, the man is envious of the prosperity of others."

It's his greed- the selfish desire to feel loved, sexy, attractive- that pulls him toward me. He's not acting in a noble way. He is losing what is essential for an unhealthy rivalry.
He also can be jealous of me in some respects.

Hexagram 23: Stripping away

Soon everything is over. His "greed" including.

What do you think?

* The italic parts are cited from http://www.jamesdekorne.com.
 

marybluesky

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WOW! I read your incomplete post the day you submitted it, only to see your complete answer that filled me with wonder now .
The way you interpreted the three changing lines sounds like the timeline of my relationship, resonating very well with my question- "the progress of my complicated relationship"- something I haven't noticed before!

Line 1:
Six at the beginning means:
He gets his tail in the water.
Humiliating.

Enthusiasm leads to failure. From the beginning the idea of deception has been established through his lack of honest...of delayed honesty (if I am being generous). It is not your fault it is the lack of integrity that has created humiliation.
Yes, I was very excited at the beginning of our relationship, and it was visible to my family & friends. Then there was disillusion after disillusion: from mixed signals & lack of enthusiasm on his part to his confession. My perceived great potential turned sour too fast.

Line 3:
Six in the third place means:
Before completion, attack brings misfortune..
It furthers one to cross the great water.

The ability for him to make the transition towards you is incomplete
. He is unable to make that transition. The other way to look at it, you cannot make the transition because you have been blocked, stopped, deceived...rendering without will. At this time in order to make the right transition it is time to shift your attention to another possibility. Perhaps it is time to move away from him and remained grounded.
He has been indeed too indecisive. He obviously felt guilt over his behavior, yet was unable to resist the temptation; withdrew, then came back to seduce.
I, on the other hand, lost the motivation to be firm and move the things forward for the very reasons you mentioned. At some point I decided that this emotional roller-coaster, which apparently led to nowhere, was harmful to my well-being. I wasn't in a romantic relationship with him, however had powerful overwhelming emotions that intensified by communication. I distanced myself and felt better little by little.

Line 6:
Nine at the top means:
There is drinking of wine
In genuine confidence. No blame.
But if one wets his head,
He loses it, in truth.

The possibility of a relationship with this person gives to a new beginning for you. The time you spend communicating creates a fantasy of love and life. The horizon is filled possibility. Your passion for him is sincere the possibility is real and yet there is a warning. The elephant in the room is that he is unavailable (most importantly he is not authentic with you). Your passion blinds you to these restrictions/limitations. You become drunk with idea that causes you a potential unfavorable ending. The duplicitousness of the situation is that like HEX 64 it is filled with possibility and littered with caveats.
Sometimes our communication incarnated "the fantasy of love"- and reminded me of my childhood memories, when everything was colorful, happy, perfect, worry-free.

My guess is that by keeping the distance, he prefers things to remain at this level without facing the reality and its inevitable challenges. He has a strong tendency to feel nostalgic, I know.

It was a new beginning. It revived some beautiful feelings/perceptions in me, and unlocked some precious others. I'm much more connected to the world around me now. After some bitter experiences in my past, I had become numb and joyless. Meeting this guy brought back the braveness and joy of life to me. It was beautiful, very beautiful despite all the suffering.
 

sylvia1ching

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The result: 27.1 >23
HEX 27:CORNERS OF THE MOUTH/PROVIDING NOURISHMENT changes to HEX 23: SPLITTING APART

The idea behind HEX 27 is that nourishment is of the body and the spirit. That in order to be nourished we need to feed our body and souls with the right things. If you want to know how one feeds themselves watch what they put in their mouth or what is in their mouth when they speak. It also references how one cultivates their character. By observing how one feeds themselves, how one responds, acts etc all you need to do is watch and listen.

Line 1: (Wilhelm)
NIne at the beginning means:
You let your magic tortoise go,
And look at me with the corners of your mouth drooping,
Misfortune

This describes someone who has given up their power and then wonders why no one is paying attention to them. You dumped your tortoise and then you wonder why its gone.

If you look at what HEX 27 means in context to line 1 it suggests to me that you go about this relationship thing. You say you have gotten important lessons from it, you have connect with your passion again...eventhough this guy is not forth coming.

This is line is for you. When are you going to hold yourself higher than mediocre. That is all i have to say. You are exceptional and you want to be special but you continue to feed youself low grade food. What can I say? You keep accepting average people and average love and expect it to fill you and make you whole and you wonder why?

HEX 23: SPLITTING APART

Splitting apart is right. Yep that mediocre man is causing you to focus on scarsity and thus is not creating stabilty but actually undermining you.

Ultimately: You can do better than this.
 

marybluesky

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Update:
The last time I chatted with this guy was more than 20 days ago. He wanted to see me and I declined, saying that it hurt.
 

marybluesky

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Update 2:
Now my story with this guy belongs to the past. I found the courage to follow him in social media- I couldn't before because of intense feelings & pain. Besides, I learned that he's been flirting with my best friend- I suspect he did it during our time together, and with other girls, too. Seems like he thinks my friend doesn't know about our relationship (she does). I guess my friend has a crush on him. They have met each-other several times. I told she's free to go for this guy but should beware of his tendencies.

Recently I remembered Trojina's comment on this my very first thread, the first advice she ever gave me; and what she wrote about his girlfriend:
I'm wondering if he came up with a 'girlfriend' in order to create distance between you. Well clearly he did since he didn't speak of her at the beginning when he wanted to be close to you.
***
Have you any evidence of this girlfriend ? I don't know why but I suspect she doesn't exist. Often if people want to make distance they suddenly say they have a partner but it's not always true.
He has said nothing about the GF to my friend- as he didn't initially tell me. He has even complained about the girls who have "abused" his kindness in the past (I wonder how they've been ever able to "use" this man...). Apparently, he's repeating the same pattern with my friend.

There is no evidence of the girlfriend in his social media, however a girl is present in many photos beside him, and as my friend says, he doesn't greet other girls when she's around. She should be the "hidden girlfriend". In one Instagram post he's referred to her as his "good friend" while according to the photos, they have been together for more than four years. What a noble man :) I guess the girl is so eager to be with the guy that she pursues him with least demands. Of course he doesn't want to lose such an opportunity -he told me once it is wise to date people who're in love with you more than you're with them, because you'll suffer otherwise- and always "do" something for the one who "does" something for you! Seems like the girl does many things for him, but she probably wouldn't anymore if she learns about other girls in his life, whether she's the GF or just a friend in love who's been in limbo for a long time.

Given that the "girlfriend" exists, if the fidelity is important to him, why does he systematically flirt with other girls?
And if she's not his GF, why has he created the idea?
It's clear that the girlfriend thing was a excuse for his distant, wishy-washy behavior, so that I wouldn't demand commitment later.
 

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