questions on divination

[el_2]

Hi all.

I joined this forum a few months ago and have posted a few questions in the shared readings forum. I've kept on using the Yi but I feel disinclined to ask for help with interpretation mainly because I'm quite a secretive person - although this doesn't mean that I won't be posting in the future. The other reason for not posting frequently is that I've found out that I learn immensely more when I make more effort to understand the answers I get and I've been so engrossed with the Yi that this is something I quite enjoy even though it takes a lot of time for me since I want to dissect the possible interpretations in any way that I can. But I have to say reading interpretations people suggest in the Shared Readings forum has helped a lot in this respect. So thanks Hilary for the great site and all of you people volunteering to help with understanding. (End of long introduction).

So in my learning process I've come to realize or to wonder about a few things. First, I've noticed that my understanding of the oracle is enhanced when I'm calm and have ample time to try to explore, understand and interpret. This is self-explanatory of course. But the funny thing I've started to realize (or wonder about) is that on the whole I seem to also get more positive answers when I'm calm and not in a hurry to do anything else. Not positive in the sense of "happily ever after" or whatever - but still I get the feeling that the answers are indeed more positive. One reason for this might be that when I'm not in a calm frame of mind the oracle reflects my frame of mind, my agitation etc. Has anyone noticed something similar when using the oracle? I wonder.

Second, say you understand quite a bit and may are able to interpet according to the answer you posed in the first place. How do get confident about your interpretation? On the one hand, wishing for a positive answer may get in the way of interpretation - this seems to happen quite a lot to people who share their readings here (including myself). However, the opposite is true. I've often found myself expecting something negative and then the answer is more positive than I'd expect and I can't believe it. And this is when it gets really confusing.

On the other hand, often I read an interpretation, say in W/B (but not exclusively there), and it really "clicks" - I feel I really understand the answer in a succinct way, straight and clear. But as I explore different interpretations providing different angles to the situation, perhaps even applicable but not "clicking", I get confused. I wonder then if I should stick to my first understanding when it really "clicked" and keep the different interpretations in mind for different situations. It seems logical to do so but I'd like to hear what other people (more experienced learners) think.

Sorry for the long post. Perhaps someone would like to commend on some of the above.

Thanks anyway

el_2

 

[meng]

Howdy, El_2.

Your observations are astute.

 

[meng]

How do get confident about your interpretation?

As you have witnessed, two people with two entirely different interpretations of a reading can be equally confident that theirs is correct. So, how can one be sure they understand the answer as it was intended?

Imo, that responsibility lies with the person who asked the question. There's likely to be several "correct" ways of interpreting Yi's answer, but which one best adjusts the course of thought or provides the answer, that is only up to the one who asked the question.

 

[el_2]

I agree with you meng. I guess what I'm trying to say is that you get an answer and an interpretation "clicks". Then you read more takes on the answer and you start to think that some of them could expand the meaning and could be applicable in your situation but then you lose that feeling of something "clicking" and you get confused and maybe this isn't very useful - although it can sometimes be helpful. My hunch in this case is to go for what "clicks" (for lack of a better word) but as I've only recently started to use the Yi seriously I often get insecure about whether this is the right way to interpret.

Mind you, I think that maybe it all boils down to each person's relationship with the Oracle so I don't expect to get a definitive answer to the aforementioned dilemmas here. But I'd like to discuss it and perhaps I'll start finding my way and get more confident when trying to interpret.

As far as the more positive answers thing I mentioned before, trying to expand on what I have in mind: I got the feeling very recently that when I'm anxious (not necessarily overly anxious or frustrated) and enquire about something before I had the chance to collect myself, I'll get an answer that further adds to my worries over the situation enquired. And then it all goes downward - perhaps because the answer has affected me in a somewhat negative way so perhaps, at the very moment I read the answer, my negative mindset affects the way the situation will evolve. If this is so, then it is VERY important for one to collect oneself before enquiring about something that really matters.

el_2

 

[meng]

Having our bubble of certainty broken by insight we haven't considered before is how we grow in understanding. Not that the other points of view are necessarily better or more right, but it's worth looking into and considering. My view or understanding of every hexagram has changed and broadened in the last few years, largely due to looking at translations and comments other than Wilhelm. Prior to that, I'd been more or less limited to Wilhelm, along with decades of observing results and drawing my own practical conclusions. LiSe's and Brad's work, especially, has opened by mind to many things I hadn't considered before.

 

[Samgirl]

I just wanted to add that it happened to me feeling anxious, ask the Yi and get more anxious because of the responses I get... it has a lot to do as well with which version I am using and in this case, I adhere to Meng's comments. For those times when I felt worse, I can say that, later, when I calm down, I re-read the same answer and see something completely different: spacious, containing several pointers to find a solution, advice, or whatever is that I am able to see by then. Curiously, when I am over-excited or in a happy state, I can experience the same! The oracle at first seems to be just wine and roses! But later, I re-read and I find a lot more there to learn and not bypass.

 

[meng]

There's also something I refer to as h.o.m.e., or the Hall Of Mirrors Effect. No one, regardless of experience, is immune to it periodically. It goes like this:

You misunderstand your first answer, or it is just unclear, and so you follow it up with a second question/answer. Being that you missed the first answer, you now are incorrectly applying the second answer to what you're thinking is an extension of the first answer, but since your first assumption was incorrect, the second answer bounces off your (incorrect) reflection of the first answer. Then you still don't understand what Yi is trying to say, and the situation becomes even more desperate So, of course you ask a third time, in the interest of objective understanding, naturally . Now Yi's answers are having a merry old time, bouncing from mirror to mirror, and you're worrying that the world is about to end.

One one the most subtle aspects of Yi divination has to do with the proportion which is assigned to the images and symbols in a given reading. And theoretically, at least, they all apply at once, one could say in the form of a wave. Exactly what function fires next, I'm not certain, but I believe that our particular (separate) identity recognizes (recog-nize or reconstruct) on an internal level what it needs and what the answer is. From there it's a matter of listening to our own inner recognition.

 

[meng]

Samgirl, interesting ti ming. We crossed posts.

 

[maremaria]

Interesting thread !

Does anyone has felt that s/he doesn’t understand the reading but deep inside there is a voice tell you that you have perfectly understand what is this about ? You don’t hear , see the answer neither you can put it into words but “ you know it”

 

[heylise]

Great question and great answers, love this thread.

It might be that asking in a disturbed mood actually does bring up 'negative' hexagrams. The ones which are usually seen as negative, like 12 or 47, are simply advice for difficult situations. For hard times you need different advice than for easy ones. So an upset mood quite naturally asks for that kind of answer.

And about that inner voice: yes, happened often. When I am smart enough not to start dissecting the answer, it works on a very essential level, and sometimes I can also understand it with my thinking mind, later. Usually in hindsight. Seeing what I did then with this answer, and how it was just right.

LiSe

 

[meng]

Interesting thread !

Does anyone has felt that s/he doesn’t understand the reading but deep inside there is a voice tell you that you have perfectly understand what is this about ? You don’t hear , see the answer neither you can put it into words but “ you know it”

I think words usually follow what is experienced or intuited, though words can also provoke experience and intuition, such as words we may receive from an oracle. But typically we think in pictures and feelings, and words come to explain it rationally, or to express it, not always so rationally lol

 

[maremaria]

And speaking for those answers I asked “ Yi, how can I understand what are you telling me ?” 55.2.4 >11 ( thought i shouldn't make it general )

The image of the sun-answer in an eclipse moment came to my mind. The sun is there but can not been seen clearly. Or like when painter for example to check their painting they close their eyes to see it better without any thing else intefier and distract them.

or in more words ...... It needs one to trust itself , forget all the external distractions and stay focused on his/her inner truth. Be self confidant ? And sometimes you have to make alliances with the lord of your dark side . And then if one is lucky, 11 comes. Everything fits, and that feeling of peace is the reward.

 

[maremaria]

I think words usually follow what is experienced or intuited, though words can also provoke experience and intuition, such as words we may receive from an oracle. But typically we think in pictures and feelings, and words come to explain it rationally, or to express it, not always so rationally lol

Agree ! Words says "it is something like that" but it isn't "it" A lots of things get lost in our attempt to "translate" the language of images and feelings into word.

Hmmm, from where do i know this ..... No, never met it , lol

 

[el_2]

Very interesting ideas and experiences with divination.

I agree with the Hall of Mirro Effect. I've found that I can ask the Yi to elaborate on a particular answer in the form of a dialogue I'm having with someone who can give you valuable insights. But the question must be carefully chosen and it seems it doesn't work that well when I haven't let some time pass (maybe a day or more) before I ask for an elaboration. The more open-ended the follow-up question is, the more chance there is I will get closer to understanding what the Oracle is telling me. Although even then I just might not get it - at least not straight away.

As I have been using the Yi more seriously (trying to study it at the same time) in the last few months I've noticed that, even when I am confused, on the whole, through dialogue, I've come to understand or intuit the dynamics of a particular situation better and sort of know what the Yi is going to tell me about that particular situation, how it has evolved or is evolving etc. I sort of anticipate the answer and then the answer comes as a confirmation, maybe adding another dimension and expanding on what I'd already felt to be the case. During those times I know I'm on the rigth track although I have to be on the alert so I don't miss the right track. It is just that in the last couple of weeks I've really come to realize the importance of being composed when asking the Oracle for advice as well as the importance of doing one reading at a time. I mean, I've read about this things in discussions in this site but it is only now that it has finally started to dawn on me what all this is about - beyond a purely intellectual level of understanding.

Another thing is that there are so many levels of understanding a particular answer. One aspect of this is using the W/B version which, being so evocative, can really be helpful or you may completely miss the point precisely because it is so evocative (and perhaps unnecessarily negative in some instances?). Another aspect of it... I'm not sure how to put it into words, perhaps an example would make clearer what I have in mind. Yesterday I got 16.2 as an answer for something I enquired about and at some point I just stopped and pondered and contemplated the interaction of movement with responsiveness (according to the trigrams). So perhaps on another level the answer I got could be seen as quite straight and applicable in practical terms although I can't see it at the moment. But right now I'm thinking about it in more abstract terms. The moving line is not helping me scale down my interpretation since it seems to me to epitomize the essence of hexagram 16. But with patience I may get to understand how to apply it in a real-life situation.

So there are so many things to consider when consulting the Yi and I've come to a point when I've realized a little bit about aspects of the process of divination. The words of people in this forum ring true but it is only through trial and error that at least I have finally realized what the advice about this process is about. Sort of learning through messing up first.

el_2

 

[meng]

As I have been using the Yi more seriously (trying to study it at the same time) in the last few months I've noticed that, even when I am confused, on the whole, through dialogue, I've come to understand or intuit the dynamics of a particular situation better and sort of know what the Yi is going to tell me about that particular situation, how it has evolved or is evolving etc. I sort of anticipate the answer and then the answer comes as a confirmation, maybe adding another dimension and expanding on what I'd already felt to be the case. During those times I know I'm on the rigth track although I have to be on the alert so I don't miss the right track. It is just that in the last couple of weeks I've really come to realize the importance of being composed when asking the Oracle for advice as well as the importance of doing one reading at a time. I mean, I've read about this things in discussions in this site but it is only now that it has finally started to dawn on me what all this is about - beyond a purely intellectual level of understanding.

I smiled when I read this yesterday, and smile again this morning. It's a familiar story, and I sometimes forget how I got here, all entangled in Yijing's influence. Thank you for that. Now, please don't think that I think I'm up there somewhere, and you're down here. From my eyes, it looks entirely opposite. You see, the way I see it, the IC is an earthly vessel, much more so than a heavenly vessel. So it is truly how immersed you are in the practice or process, with the kind of exchange with Yi you speak of. I think the proverbial onion image works very well here. To realize we are the onion, we must peel through all layers, sparing nothing. But, in the context of nature and Yijing, that's always how it is, waxing and waning. Learning how to fall helps you rise. After a rise comes a fall. I think if (big if) Yi has a mission, it is only to make us aware of what's really going, while we're off trippin' on this and that. The Yijing is the perfect Zen Master...may the historians forgive me.

 

[el_2]

"Now, please don't think that I think I'm up there somewhere, and you're down here. From my eyes, it looks entirely opposite."

Oh I'm aware that people here who have been long-time users and learners have probalby gone through similar processes themselves and have their own stories to tell. That's why I decided to post in the first place.

So, may I guess that some people also wondered whether it was worthwhile consulting the Yi at the beginning of their relationship with it, in the sense that there was an element of doubt involved at some point? Because this happened to me at some point but I immediately dimissed the idea thinking that it was all due to the fact that I was not calm when consulting or I was still inexperienced and didn't have a basic understanding of all hexagrams etc. Yesterday, any doubt that might still be lurking vanished as I was feeling quite low for some reason and decided to just throw the coins, no question asked and got 23 unchanging. How perfectly it described the situation. I'm still in a 23 mood today and just waiting for it to pass. The Yi can be soothing; it can sometimes feel like being ill and getting a diagnosis and just getting the diagnosis is reassuring, it is an acknowledgement of what is happening - even though the diagnosis may not be so positive. It's good to know and it's good to get confirmation.

el_2

 

[maremaria]

" The Yi can be soothing; it can sometimes feel like being ill and getting a diagnosis and just getting the diagnosis is reassuring, it is an acknowledgement of what is happening - even though the diagnosis may not be so positive. It's good to know and it's good to get confirmation.

el_2

Yes !!! exactly !!!. I can relate to that.

Sometimes is not clear what the situation is, what is going on. You don’t know what is that you have to fight , solve, whatever. Knowing what it is is a good thing to know. It’s a relief. Some time ago I experienced that literally( diagnosis) and metaphorically ( reading). Its like you are lost and suddenly you get a map of the area and a note one the map “you are here !”

Enjoyed reading your thoughts El_2

Maria

 

[jilt]

Yes !!! exactly !!!. I can relate to that Maria and EI_2

I think in the old wilhelm translation this refers to hex 48 line 3: for people who know me I am a clear well. That is something we alle learn in the course of time, to trust the yi as a live, intelligent and talking to you and your specific situation, without caring much about systems and formal ways, just using what is at hand and most approriate in the situation. I love that.

 

[bradford]

My suggestion would be to take advantage of the fact that hindsight is 20/20
(or at least 20/30), keep a journal and return to it after the question has been
answered by life and the real deal. If it's written down it's harder to twist and
squirm around your divination errors. And it's easier to see which version nailed it.

 

[meng]

hindsight is 20/20
(or at least 20/30)

 

[meng]

So in my learning process I've come to realize or to wonder about a few things. First, I've noticed that my understanding of the oracle is enhanced when I'm calm and have ample time to try to explore, understand and interpret. This is self-explanatory of course. But the funny thing I've started to realize (or wonder about) is that on the whole I seem to also get more positive answers when I'm calm and not in a hurry to do anything else. Not positive in the sense of "happily ever after" or whatever - but still I get the feeling that the answers are indeed more positive. One reason for this might be that when I'm not in a calm frame of mind the oracle reflects my frame of mind, my agitation etc. Has anyone noticed something similar when using the oracle? I wonder.

I have mixed experiences regarding this. I understand what you mean about a calm mind resulting in a more positive answer, but I don't think that can be relied very much upon. It's like the mystery of being surprised in a dream: it's your mind, so how could you surprise yourself? But the Yi does indeed throw some totally unexpected curve balls. That's Creative's way.

Sometimes a high level of anxiety is exactly what's needed, to penetrate through a challenge. At least least that's how it's been for me. It's during a crisis that I most loudly call upon the lord.

Meeting ones lord in the calm of meditation, how can there be error in that? Perhaps the best all around way to approach life, as well as the Yi.

But what if negotiating error is part of the equation of creation? What if, for example, the big bang was the result of a flaw: something flying off axis due to mass shift? Kind of like a carnival spinning pallet painting.

 

[el_2]

I don't disagree with you Meng.

Perhaps I didn't put it clearly. I was not suggesting that if you are calm when consulting, you will definitely get more positive answers - after all, you don't own reality and can't manipulate it. I was trying to say that I've found that when you are anxious when consulting, the oracle will tend to reflect your frame of mind and your emotional state, so the answer might indicate danger or oppression or something, and may not address the original question asked at all, and you might misinterpet and then it's downward - until you get to a point that you realize that what you are doing is ridiculous, you leave it for another day and then you get the answer you were supposed to in the first place. In the meantime, you have gotten even more anxious and this is the attitude you carry in the outer world. OK, nothing tragic has come out of it for me, but I have experienced a situation such as that described.

I don't dismiss the value of this, however. Trial and error. It can be challenging, but then you learn. So it's useful.

Got to rush (I'm at work, shame on me, etc.). More, later.

el_2

 

[fkegan]

Hi El_2,
One's state of mind is a major factor in how one can view or understand an Oracle. The entire experience or relationship to the oracle is colored and controlled by one's state of mind. Being agitated interferes with all understanding by whatever means.

However, my personal experience is that the Yi Oracle works on a need to know basis. If the question is personal to you and you need to have answer then the Oracle will answer that need in your terms. That is what makes divination so impressive.

Frank

 

[el_2]

Hi all

I had to be away for a couple of days and did not have the chance to post here.

Bradford, I do try to keep a journal although I'm still in the process of trying to make it more manageable. Recently, I've started making different Word documents on my computer for short-term questions, deeper and more general questions, questions related to a specific problem at work etc. Some Word documents have more, some have fewer questions. This is another thing a newbie has to do - make the journal manageable and meaningful. I have to be able to get back to lines I got in the past and check out what actually happened but when the questions are of a deeper, more personal nature, I also have to feel there is a dialogue going on and to keep track of the dialogue.

As a sidenote: A few days ago I got 42.2 for something I was enquiring and the answer matched the question, that is I really felt the Yi was answering my question. However, at the same time, I'd started wondering how often do you need to consult about an ongoing issue - on a weekly basis, a monthly basis, when you feel there's a change in the dynamics of the situation? And as I was reading the answer on your site it struck me that there was no need to consult very frequently - I'm still not sure how I got this from 42.2 but I did feel there was a subtext there when I was reading your interpretation. The Yi works in subconscious ways - who knows?

And, yes Frank, the Yi is so personal, and that's what makes it great, it is interactive. Maybe one of these days I should put the question to the Oracle: "Who are you, anyway?"

el_2

 

[franklin]

more questions

Dear El_2

A late reply to your message.

I'd say that finding out which one is the right 'click' is essentially what it is all about. The process of connecting up the question and the divination is the clue to benefiting from the Yi, as we believe it really speaks to you when you consult it.

This whole thing thrives on doubt because doubt is exactly the concern. Besides: you are never sure your interpretation is the one, always running the risk of seeing what you want to see. Going beyond the initial click is crucial in order to get a step further.

i also experienced that your 'attitude' while divining can have an impact on the positive or negative inclination of the respons by the Yi. But then again: rarely an answer is fully positive, a positive answer is often a real risk (because you are blinded), negative (or small) can be really positive, a positive breakthrough right before the divination (because of it) proves to be Okay but not completely (the road doesn't change is direction just like that), etc.

Sharing the puzzle with others is for me also a good way of exploring all the possibilities (I don' use trigrams, as a sinologist a focus on the words and the subtle details). Going as far as possible in exploring all possible meanings can be a quite tiring and terse obligation in order to reach beyond and really feel the gentle touch of the truth. But then again: this is part of the heeling.

Sometimes at the end of this research you come back to the intial 'click', but with a slightly modified vision or within a more matured context. You can hardly express it but are fully charged with the whole scheme (the doubts, small perils, strange remarks, etc° ) waiting (ready) for the moment.

What do you think?

Mvg
Franklin

 

[meng]

Franklin,

I think more in terms of zoom than clicks. I'm not inclined to mark things down, nor to take measurements or gradients. I'm a terrible scientist and an even worse student. Likewise, returning to Brad's ledger idea, I've never kept one, and just the idea of it is a turn-off. This is also why things rarely appear black or white, because it is dependent on the focus of a zoom lens, and the available relative lighting.

But I enjoy clicking on what you've said.

 

[maremaria]

..... Maybe one of these days I should put the question to the Oracle: "Who are you, anyway?"

el_2

Chuckling here .

Sometimes you can't help it and want to ask that question

Maria

 

[Samgirl]

I don't disagree with you Meng.

Perhaps I didn't put it clearly. I was not suggesting that if you are calm when consulting, you will definitely get more positive answers - after all, you don't own reality and can't manipulate it. I was trying to say that I've found that when you are anxious when consulting, the oracle will tend to reflect your frame of mind and your emotional state, so the answer might indicate danger or oppression or something, and may not address the original question asked at all, and you might misinterpet and then it's downward - until you get to a point that you realize that what you are doing is ridiculous, you leave it for another day and then you get the answer you were supposed to in the first place. In the meantime, you have gotten even more anxious and this is the attitude you carry in the outer world.

I was thinking about this the other day... at least in my case, what I find is that the type of questions I make when I am calm and present are quite different to the type of questions that arise when I am anxious about something, so, it is not the responses I get from Yijing what changes in my case.

I was also in the belief that the Yi was a mirror of myself and that responses were according to "my world". I am starting to believe that there is a lot more mystery on this, perhaps because what I call "myself" is just a tiny part of what I am, and the rest is as mysterious as the Yi.

Also, I used to be "too serious" with the responses I received, looking for answers about the meaning of life in every reading. When I started to compare my readings with the real experience, I found that the responses from the YI were a lot more simpler than my own interpretation.

The other day, for example, I was making several questions about an event that I had to assist to, and I was receiving hex. 39 all over the place. I started to look at the situation from 10.000 different angles, wondering where the blockages, what I was missing there, because I didn't feel before those readings that I should stop and think about the situation. So I went on and on until I started to find somewhere in my head (imaginary) reasons for stopping my plans for this event... however, I felt quite clear in my heart that there was nothing wrong with what I was planning, so I was puzzled, but decided to follow my intuition rather than my thoughts, so I kept my plans as they were. Finally, the blockage showed up! But it was not related to me or my perception of life, or my inner growth... It was that the event had to be postpone for another time because the computer of a friend of mine (who I was working with in this project) broke down and we had to stop and wait for the thing get fixed before I could go ahead. I said to myself... Ahhhh.... that's what is all about. The answer was not about me nor was a "spiritual" overview, but just a practical matter: "there is a blockage for the event". At the same time, it was related to me, because the advice was to chill out for a bit until the blockage was gone... advice that I didn't follow, as instead of waiting patiently, I initiated a frenetic search to discover what the blockage was.

It's strange to me that the Yi can give such accurate responses while predicting future events. I am reluctant of searching for future hints but amazed when the Yi brings them up in order to help understand a present situation or behaviour.

 

[fkegan]

Originally Posted by el_2 View Post
..... Maybe one of these days I should put the question to the Oracle: "Who are you, anyway?"

Chuckling here .

Sometimes you can't help it and want to ask that question

Maria

Hi Maria, and El_2,

The question "Who are you, anyway?" isn't a tough one for the Yi.

After discovering that humans are incapable of random number selection, I started asking folks I met casually to tell me two natural numbers 1 to 64 inclusive and then interpreting these as a Yi oracle answering the question,"what is important for me to know about you at this moment."

I have also seen examples where a single Yi oracle has been interpreted by a number of folks as their own personal answer asked in the same time and place. I asked the Yi for its Oracle to the above quoted question and received hex 38.2,3>>30. The Sabian Symbols for these two lines are:

An unexpected thunderstorm breaks over the parched lands of the river empire and its terror is welcome relief.
AND
A deserter from the navy stands suddenly aware of the dawning truth that freedom is never the result of compromise.

Now is always the best "one of these days."

Frank

 

[el_2]

"I was thinking about this the other day... at least in my case, what I find is that the type of questions I make when I am calm and present are quite different to the type of questions that arise when I am anxious about something, so, it is not the responses I get from Yijing what changes in my case."

Yes, perhaps something like this goes on when one is calm when asking questions. It is not that external reality suddenly changes the way you want although things will probably get better if you attain a clear perspective on the situation. Lack of anxiousness does this. Having said that, I still sometimes get anxious about some answers I receive but at least I've come to a point when I simply refrain from consulting the Oracle when I'm in such a mood.

Frank, I think the Yi gave you a great answer. I'm sure that if I posed the same question I'd get a different answer. The Yi is different things to different people. Apart from consulting about ongoing situations I have questions like this running around in my mind and then one day I feel that it is the right moment to ask - the right moment in the sense that I really feel I want to ask that question at that presice moment, it has sort of matured in my head. When I do pose the aforesaid question I will post it in the shared readings forum.

To go back to Samgirl's post, I have a funny story to share. A while ago I was going to attend some sort of event and I had to pick what I would wear. There was no formal dress code but it wasn't a casual-dressing event either. So I fretted about it for some time because with work and what have you, I didn't have the time to go shopping around, etc. So I decided to ask the Yi what I should do about it although I was not sure I should ask something so mundane or that any answer I got would make any sense at all. The Yi answered with 28.5,6. I thought "huh?" I went through W/B - too heavy, did not make sense. And then I checked Chris Lofting's notes on the lines. For 28.5 he gives: "A withered willow flowers. An elderly lady marries a learned man. No harm. No praise. ONE ATTEMPTS TO AUGMENT ONE'S APPEARANCE". For 28.6: "One has spent too much time and energy on the task at hand and are drowning. Danger. There is no error in this." I had to laugh (at myself). I did not search for the meaning of the answer longer.

Perhaps one day someone should write "The Mundane I Ching" or something like that. Maybe there is such a book I do not know of? Mind you, I don't regard Lofting's comments on the hexagrams and the lines as mundane. I always check them out straigth after I've checked the W/B version.

el_2