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reading spiritual books

dobro p

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I was reading a written exchange between a very good teacher and a student, and the student asked him about the usefulness or otherwise of reading spiritual books. The answer was along the lines of 'reading spiritual books is very useful in the beginning, but can be an obstacle near the end, and you have to know when to let go of that activity'. So, of course, I wondered how it applied to me, and because I had no very clear idea of how it applied to me, I decided to consult the oracle. I asked: 'What about the reading of spiritual books in my case?' The result:

1.2>13

1 I took that to mean that in my case, reading these books is a very good idea. I mean, the Yi would have come up with something like 43 or 47 otherwise, right?

2 I'm wondering what your take on 1.2 is. It would have been just as positive if I'd drawn 1.5, for instance, so why 1.2? The relating hexes for example, are 13 and 14. So what's the significance of drawing 13 as the relating hex instead of, for instance, 14?
 

russell

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Maybe:

Dragon appearing in the field, as opposed to being hidden, or flying high: possibilities are just emerging for you, and the outcome of your undertaking will be favorable. It will involve, or result in, getting together with others (fellowship/gathering), as opposed to merely increasing your own knowledge or abilities (great possession).

The reversed (complementary) hexagram and accompanying transformed hexagram (anti-hexagram), 2.2—7, have to do with order and discipline; this contrasts with your current situation, which appears to have more to do with spiritual, intuitive, or emotional issues.

—Russell
 

ginnie

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In the WikiWing it says: "Dragon emerging into the field of possibilities."

Sounds good, Dobro.

I'm thinking that "spiritual books" is a very large generality. People who are spiritual usually are following certain paths. Usually at the beginning one reads many kinds of books, until the day comes when one finds that one path is more congenial than any other. One can then follow that path for many years, perhaps joining a group.

At the end, however, perhaps it no longer matters very much what particular path one is on personally. It is said that God is One. One does not actually need a path to "reach" God. But in real life, seekers tend to be found in groups.
 

knotxx

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1.2 seems to me like a beautiful way of describing reading great spiritual books. You "see the great man" -- the writers, and/or your own potential self -- and enter into fellowship with them (13). Enormous creative potential.
 

rodaki

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. . could also be that the Yi was pointing at your fellowship with it (if you include it in your category of 'spiritual books') :)
 

dobro p

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1.2 seems to me like a beautiful way of describing reading great spiritual books. You "see the great man" -- the writers, and/or your own potential self -- and enter into fellowship with them (13). Enormous creative potential.

That's how I read the 13 part, too. Thanks.
 

dobro p

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. . could also be that the Yi was pointing at your fellowship with it (if you include it in your category of 'spiritual books') :)

That didn't occur to me. (I'm pretty literal.) Maybe the Yi's being self-referential with *every* consultation lol. But I think that if you want the Yi to tell you about the Yi, you have to ask the question directly. I love that story about Carl Jung getting acquainted with it, and asking it a question about itself and its role, and it gave him 48. Perfect. :)

I don't think of the Yi as a spiritual book. I think of it as a tool, an instrument. I think some of the commentaries in the Wilhelm translation are spiritual material. And I think that you can use the Yi in a spiritual way - I think you can use it to work out approaches and attitudes that will take you right up to the point where there's nothing to rely on any more - but I think in itself it's more pragmatic than spiritual. Having said that, I've often seen each of the hexagrams as spiritual lesson to be learned in life - spiritual growth requires that you learn about the nature of the Creative, that you learn about the way of Modesty, that you learn about how to reduce/sacrifice a la 41. Archetypes of the spiritual life, they seem to me. So maybe the Yi *is* spiritual. Maybe it's as spiritual as you make it?
 

rodaki

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Maybe it's as spiritual as you make it?


yes, probably . . I don't see it myself as 'spiritual' . . what that teacher answered though fits a lot my experience with Yi :blush:
 

dobro p

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Yeah, me too. My take on why I got 1.2 instead of 1.5 is that I'm far from being at the point where the books are no longer useful for me. If I'd got 1.5, I might have read it as 'The Creative - you've got it!'

But the Yi's saying 'not so fast, grasshopper'.

:)
 

Trojina

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hmm a spiritual onion eh

i didn't know they could read
 

dobro p

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Onions read on a surface layer. Peel them down to a deeper layer, and you find they don't need to read at all. I mean, why read about it when you *are* it?
 

Trojina

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All Hail Dobro

The First Enlightened Onion ever

(or he will be when hes read all the books and if someone doesn't use him in a sandwhich first )
 

ginnie

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I don't think of the Yi as a spiritual book. I think of it as a tool, an instrument. . . . I think in itself it's more pragmatic than spiritual. Having said that, I've often seen each of the hexagrams as spiritual lesson to be learned in life - Maybe it's as spiritual as you make it?

Personally, I wouldn't exclude the pragmatic from the realm of the divine, because how could we be helped, here on Earth, if not by pragmatic means?

The I Ching does not care, as far as I am aware, what kind of question I ask. I can ask any type of question -- but the translation I use must to be up to the task, if my question is spiritual or metaphysical.
 
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dobro p

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I don't think it matters to the I Ching what kinds of questions we ask -- but it's important that the translations we use are up to the task of helping us interpret the answers we receive.

Whenever I ask the I Ching a spiritual question, I'm sure to look at the Stephen Karcher translation, first published in 2003. The older texts, the Legge, W/B, and the Blofeld, are also stronger in the spiritual area, but not with the depth of the Karcher.

Karcher's the biggest mystery in the Yi field. His renderings are idiosyncratic, revisionist, off the wall. And yet when I use his Yi, I often get insight. I knocked my brains out at one point (it was a long point - it took me years) working out a rendering of the Yi that was as accurate, true to the original, and useful to me as I could possibly make it. And then Karcher comes up with his Johnny Depp versions and they're just as if not more useful than my own. This says something about the nature of the Yi, I think. It's not carved in stone. It's written in hearts. Or something.
 

elvis

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The I Ching is a language - a primitive form when compared to the precision of words but also a holistic form that allows for an immediate, if but at times vague, depth in communication often missed by words or else requiring too much 'wordyness' (words being serial in form, grounded in partials summed to elicit a whole whereas the emotional content of images allows for a holistic experience - combine the two and you have high precision communication covering the serial and the parallel etc)

As a language the I Ching is self-referencing and so can describe/represent anything you like, including itself, and including all classes of consciousness and so all possible differences in interpretations.
 

dobro p

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The I Ching is a language - a primitive form when compared to the precision of words but also a holistic form that allows for an immediate, if but at times vague, depth in communication often missed by words or else requiring too much 'wordyness' (words being serial in form, grounded in partials summed to elicit a whole whereas the emotional content of images allows for a holistic experience - combine the two and you have high precision communication covering the serial and the parallel etc)

As a language the I Ching is self-referencing and so can describe/represent anything you like, including itself, and including all classes of consciousness and so all possible differences in interpretations.

Can it go beyond thought? How?
 

lloyd

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Hi Dobro - How? Maybe by being fitted into static theory, thereby losing its life ...
 

elvis

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Can it go beyond thought? How?

If by thought you mean directed thinking then the focus on mythic thinking and use of symmetry and sensory experiences. Those experiences come in the form of secondary harmonics and as such as colours, chords, smells etc. The standard response to secondary harmonics (and so frequencies) is basic emotion - as such we can resonate with a moment; our basic emotions allow for parallel communication. (secondary emotions then add local details where secondary emotions are dependent on our sense of self for their definition)

The issues with this basic resonance is that, being grounded in symmetry, it is biased to SAMENESS and as such is sensitive to a CLASS of experience rather than the nuances of an INSTANCE of a class.

The nature of the I Ching hexagrams etc is in being able to represent these classes and as such represent 'wholes' as it can 'parts'. It is then consciousness, our particular nature, that can ground the class in the details of an instance.

The IDM work in meaning derivation has identified a property of symmetry where recursion of a dichotomy, in this case yang/yin, will elicit the trigrams and hexagrams but also bring out a property of recursion, a phase transition, that 'magically' converts the literal classes of meanings into figurative forms and so able to be used as language.

In the EIC this is the XOR work (the tables in each hexagram description) where each hexagram is describable by analogy to all of the other hexagrams. Sure we use words to flesh out the details but the holistic element is still there - I can XOR hexagram 24 with any other hexagram and get the expression of 24 THROUGH a context described by that other hexagram - where the expression is in the form of analogy to another hexagram. Thus we get the I Ching to describe itself by reference to itself - the beginnings of hexagram 01 are tied to characteristics of hexagram 44; the developing single-mindedness focus starts off with acts of persuasion/seduction:

whole - 01
aspect - 24
expression - 44

111111 (01)
100000 (24)
-------- XOR
011111 (44)


Since the I Ching is considered as a filtering system and so able to map 'all there is', its language element allows for finer details to be extracted and meditated upon using emotions alone (and so mapped to sensory secondary harmonics).

The HARD CODING of this covers the hard-coding of our neurology where its processing of sensory data introduces local context variations of hard coded classes of meanings - wholeness is wholeness but in different contexts it can take on different forms and cultural differences can mean what is a whole for you is a dynamic relationship for me!

Thus we can use a hexagram to represent a context, a whole, and then use all of the other hexagrams to give us finer details on the properties (Form) and methods (process) of that whole. We can focus on sensory experiences or on the use of high precision in the form of words (and the actual methodology is grounded in basic dynamics of our brain grounded in use of logic operators).

What is important to understand is the issues with symmetry where instance/class can be confused. Being able to recognise such then aids in understanding the general and the particular.
 

pantherpanther

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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by elvis
The I Ching is a language - a primitive form when compared to the precision of words but also a holistic form that allows for an immediate, if but at times vague, depth in communication often missed by words or else requiring too much 'wordyness' (words being serial in form, grounded in partials summed to elicit a whole whereas the emotional content of images allows for a holistic experience - combine the two and you have high precision communication covering the serial and the parallel etc)

As a language the I Ching is self-referencing and so can describe/represent anything you like, including itself, and including all classes of consciousness and so all possible differences in interpretations.

.....

In reply to dobro's question , "Can it go beyond thought?"

If by thought you mean directed thinking then the focus on mythic thinking and use of symmetry and sensory experiences. Those experiences come in the form of secondary harmonics and as such as colours, chords, smells etc. The standard response to secondary harmonics (and so frequencies) is basic emotion - as such we can resonate with a moment; our basic emotions allow for parallel communication. (secondary emotions then add local details where secondary emotions are dependent on our sense of self for their definition)

The issues with this basic resonance is that, being grounded in symmetry, it is biased to SAMENESS and as such is sensitive to a CLASS of experience rather than the nuances of an INSTANCE of a class.

The nature of the I Ching hexagrams etc is in being able to represent these classes and as such represent 'wholes' as it can 'parts'. It is then consciousness, our particular nature, that can ground the class in the details of an instance.

The IDM work in meaning derivation has identified a property of symmetry where recursion of a dichotomy, in this case yang/yin, will elicit the trigrams and hexagrams but also bring out a property of recursion, a phase transition, that 'magically' converts the literal classes of meanings into figurative forms and so able to be used as language.

In the EIC this is the XOR work (the tables in each hexagram description) where each hexagram is describable by analogy to all of the other hexagrams. Sure we use words to flesh out the details but the holistic element is still there - I can XOR hexagram 24 with any other hexagram and get the expression of 24 THROUGH a context described by that other hexagram - where the expression is in the form of analogy to another hexagram. Thus we get the I Ching to describe itself by reference to itself - the beginnings of hexagram 01 are tied to characteristics of hexagram 44; the developing single-mindedness focus starts off with acts of persuasion/seduction:

whole - 01
aspect - 24
expression - 44

111111 (01)
100000 (24)
-------- XOR
011111 (44)


Since the I Ching is considered as a filtering system and so able to map 'all there is', its language element allows for finer details to be extracted and meditated upon using emotions alone (and so mapped to sensory secondary harmonics).

The HARD CODING of this covers the hard-coding of our neurology where its processing of sensory data introduces local context variations of hard coded classes of meanings - wholeness is wholeness but in different contexts it can take on different forms and cultural differences can mean what is a whole for you is a dynamic relationship for me!

Thus we can use a hexagram to represent a context, a whole, and then use all of the other hexagrams to give us finer details on the properties (Form) and methods (process) of that whole. We can focus on sensory experiences or on the use of high precision in the form of words (and the actual methodology is grounded in basic dynamics of our brain grounded in use of logic operators).

What is important to understand is the issues with symmetry where instance/class can be confused. Being able to recognise such then aids in understanding the general and the particular.

The human energy anatomy is constructed to receive and process energies from the whole universe . The human is a transmitter of the energies it receives from all levels of the cosmos or "multiverse." The human has many centers or "bodies" that relate to all the levels of universe. The physical body is neither the whole human nor is the human isolated from the life of the rest of universe. It is a functioning part of a whole, which is always changing in time according to evolutionary laws of creation and destruction, more precisely, thae interaction of the three principles of positive, negative and neutralizing or passive,active and reconciling. Energy flows both upward and downward and the process is both symmetric and asymmetric.There is always present the principle of hazard, for three forces are involved - the positive, negative and neutralizing. In Taoism this is represented as Yin, Yang and Tao.

The I Ching is a metaphorical representation of an ancient knowledge teaching, from which all cultures have developed sciences, religions and arts.

The materialistic science of neurology has no understanding of the structure of the human being or the energies with which it functions. Interpreting the meaning of the I Ching's metaphors and symbols based on a false conception of the human structure and functioning results in a rationalistic caricature that has no reality. There is no basis for relating brain study to the language of the I Ching. The precise interactions experienced with different energies at any time by the human being are not limited to or described by what you call sensory impressions or emotions. Myth, ritual and art are only representations of actual processes that occur in the life of the human as a part of an evolving universe.
The cultivation of the science of working with different energies requires practice and the engagement of the many centers in the human being which the rational mind cannot access.
 
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dobro p

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In reply to dobro's question , "Can it go beyond thought?"

The human energy anatomy is constructed to receive and process energies from the whole universe . The human is a transmitter of the energies it receives from all levels of the cosmos or "multiverse." The human has many centers or "bodies" that relate to all the levels of universe. The physical body is neither the whole human nor is the human isolated from the life of the rest of universe.

Sure, okay. So, going one step beyond the physical body we have the mental body with its thoughts and some of the higher emotions perhaps. Going one step beyond the mental body (beyond thought, in other words), we have what I'll choose to call the conscious body. Just consciousness, free of thoughts, emotions, and sensations. I know it exists, cuz that's what my deep meditation is. So let's talk about that body. My question now is: Can the Yi usefully operate at the level of the conscious body. I'd say no, and here's why: the Yi registers in the human mind via images and words. Images and words are the furniture of the mental body. Without images and words, the Yi communicates not at all, it seems to me.

The I Ching is a metaphorical representation of an ancient knowledge teaching, from which all cultures have developed sciences, religions and arts.

If it's a representation, then it represents via images and words, as I said above, and images and words are at the level of thought, not beyond it.

The materialistic science of neurology has no understanding of the structure of the human being or the energies with which it functions.

Well, science can only deal with what it can measure. Science is brilliant at the level of the physical universe, through its use of the controlled experiment. Science is really on shaky ground at the level of the mental universe, because how can you measure a thought or do a controlled experiment with emotion? And as for the level beyond thought, science is a complete waste of time. It's a tank in a kindergarden - it's out of place, anachronous and without useful function.

(snip)

The cultivation of the science of working with different energies requires practice and the engagement of the many centers in the human being which the rational mind cannot access.

Sure, but can the Yi operate at the level of those energies? How could it, when it communicates to us via the mind, that is, on a level other than those energies?
 

elvis

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The human energy anatomy is constructed to receive and process energies from the whole universe . The human is a transmitter of the energies it receives from all levels of the cosmos or "multiverse." The human has many centers or "bodies" that relate to all the levels of universe. The physical body is neither the whole human nor is the human isolated from the life of the rest of universe. It is a functioning part of a whole, which is always changing in time according to evolutionary laws of creation and destruction, more precisely, thae interaction of the three principles of positive, negative and neutralizing or passive,active and reconciling. Energy flows both upward and downward and the process is both symmetric and asymmetric.There is always present the principle of hazard, for three forces are involved - the positive, negative and neutralizing. In Taoism this is represented as Yin, Yang and Tao.

Wu Chi -> Yi Chi -> T'ai Chi -> yin/yang -> T'ai Chi -> Yi Chi -> Wu Chi

From the void, the breathless, the lacking of extension, is detected a change that forms into a whole (great extension, life breath).

There is hierarchy here, reductionism where a whole (T'ai Chi) held for long enough in consciousness will collapse into its yin/yang elements. Those elements are in the dualist form of forms - wholes, parts, statics, dynamics - and processes - producing, distributing, filtering, exchanging. Refining understanding then allows for re-integration and a better understanding of what is going on.

Thus the holistic experience is T'ai Chi and the partials experience yin/yang.

ANY attempt to describe the universe, across all levels, real or imagined, will use language, both directed and mythic. The basic forms used are those of differentiating (objects, aka nouns) and integrating (relationships, aka verbs) where the recursion of such gives us a dimension of classes of meanings mixing the differentiating and integrating to which we then attach instances in the form lf labels etc.

DIRECT experience is sensory experience (real or imagined where imagining seeing lights-up the visual areas of the brain) and the communication of such is through resonance. ANY attempt to describe any level of being will be done so using part/whole forms of representation with the best fit being through use of resonance (see cymatics for example).

The I Ching is a metaphorical representation of an ancient knowledge teaching, from which all cultures have developed sciences, religions and arts.

Any 'ancient knowledge teaching' will conform to communications using patterns of differentiating/integrating, objects/relationships, and the composite patterns elicited from recursion of those dichotomies. The I Ching reflects that process where we can trace the process down to the neurology and from there out into the universe (the neuron reflecting 600 million years of development of a robust form of communication)

The materialistic science of neurology has no understanding of the structure of the human being or the energies with which it functions.

it is doing fine - and ongoing research will continue. the EIC perspective demonstrates material NOT covered in any 'traditional' perspectives known to date and as such offers a more efficient form of 'I Ching' than the traditional forms presented in current texts.

Interpreting the meaning of the I Ching's metaphors and symbols based on a false conception of the human structure and functioning results in a rationalistic caricature that has no reality.

The EIC is working fine in identifying core issues identified from the making of emotional assessments of situations (and so holistic experience) where we can break such down into partial forms of analysis, piecemeal processes allowing for high details of all aspects of the whole GIVEN the language of the I Ching. That's all the EIC needs to do, provide consistent, testable, material that is useful to those using the system. Simple. No need for occult perspectives etc

There is no basis for relating brain study to the language of the I Ching.

...so you admit the I Ching is a language. That's a start. GIVEN this admission it follows that you must understand that ANY language, to be called such, must be able to describe itself but reference to itself, and the EIC clearly demonstrates this capability where such is NOT covered in the traditional texts used to date in 'traditional I Ching' perspectives. The ability to identify the self-referencing of the I Ching came about from considering basic brain studies and so indicating there IS "a basis for relating brain study to the language of the I Ching"

The precise interactions experienced with different energies at any time by the human being are not limited to or described by what you call sensory impressions or emotions.

Prove it. Prove that the I Ching did NOT emerge from basic sensory experiences of reality combined with anthropomorphism. ANY attempt to identify 'different energies' etc will be done using patterns of differentiating and integrating that can elicit resonance and so a sense of understanding. And in the context of IDM and the EIC that is all that is needed to make the material useful. Simple.

All of the possible CLASSES of energies you write of can be categorised by the I Ching (since you yourself assert the I Ching to be metaphor, a representation, of those classes) "The I Ching is a metaphorical representation of an ancient knowledge teaching"

Myth, ritual and art are only representations of actual processes that occur in the life of the human as a part of an evolving universe.
The cultivation of the science of working with different energies requires practice and the engagement of the many centers in the human being which the rational mind cannot access.

A-Ha. Here is your problem, if you take the IDM/EIC work as a useful, testable, meaningful system then it raises issues about all of the energy you have put in to your current dogma; it marginalises such a perspective and can reduce it to being an example of rhetorical hype and no more - all of the perspective is open to re-interpretation given the work in neurosciences and that is an issue.

That is not my problem, it is your problem. If scientific perspectives do a '59', lift the fog of ancient, over-metaphorised, perspectives, that is a fact one has to deal with. You can dig-in and fight the change or adapt. The I Ching focus is to adapt but the idealist focus is to avoid change, use properties of hexagram 12 which your above prose indicates - attempts to neutralise the material as one tries to validate current belief - so even the I Ching 'knows' what you are doing, and the EIC format can even identify the purpose - to maintain an ideology (hex 30 representing the purpose/outcome of 12)

IDM/EIC does not replace anything other than that which is in need of replacement - once the Earth was discovered to be round so all flat-earth perspectives 'disappeared'.

As such IDM/EIC does not perform total analytical negation, more so dialectical negation where we 'keep the good bits' of past dogmas and role on with the new perspectives.

Note that the IDM material also applies to ALL occult perspectives - Astrology, Tarot, Runes, Qabalah, etc etc etc and as such all are up for review given the IDM findings re meaning derivation in our species.
 

dobro p

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There's another possibility, too.

There's a possibility, and it's a strong one, that the Yi was saying: "No, you don't need spiritual books. Reality is starting to come into its own in your life. You need a spiritual teacher, complete with sangha."

So why did no one see that possibility? Probably because everyone interpreted in terms of what they were already familiar with (or didn't interpret at all, or changed the subject, which is what their personalities are familiar with). In other words, the Yi tells you nothing that you're not ready to hear.

So, now I've got two really plausible interpretations. How to proceed?
 

rodaki

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There's another possibility, too.

There's a possibility, and it's a strong one, that the Yi was saying: "No, you don't need spiritual books. Reality is starting to come into its own in your life. You need a spiritual teacher, complete with sangha."

So why did no one see that possibility? Probably because everyone interpreted in terms of what they were already familiar with (or didn't interpret at all, or changed the subject, which is what their personalities are familiar with). In other words, the Yi tells you nothing that you're not ready to hear.

So, now I've got two really plausible interpretations. How to proceed?

maybe by going back to the start and taking the advice of the very good teacher you mentioned in your first post? :bag:

what is sangha btw??
 
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maremaria

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There's another possibility, too.

There's a possibility, and it's a strong one, that the Yi was saying: "No, you don't need spiritual books. Reality is starting to come into its own in your life. You need a spiritual teacher, complete with sangha."

So why did no one see that possibility? Probably because everyone interpreted in terms of what they were already familiar with (or didn't interpret at all, or changed the subject, which is what their personalities are familiar with). In other words, the Yi tells you nothing that you're not ready to hear.

So, now I've got two really plausible interpretations. How to proceed?

Glad you mention it because I could see also that "you don't need books" but find it very difficult to back it up. Something in the 13 judgement "Thus the superior man organizes the clans And makes distinctions between things."

There is another layer at that reading besides the obvious that i can't point a finger at it but i feel there is.

edit :
 
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lloyd

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That is not my problem, it is your problem. If scientific perspectives do a '59', lift the fog of ancient, over-metaphorised, perspectives, that is a fact one has to deal with. You can dig-in and fight the change or adapt.
Lloyd:
yourMisunderstanding.gif
 

pantherpanther

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Sure, okay. So, going one step beyond the physical body we have the mental body with its thoughts and some of the higher emotions perhaps. Going one step beyond the mental body (beyond thought, in other words), we have what I'll choose to call the conscious body. Just consciousness, free of thoughts, emotions, and sensations. I know it exists, cuz that's what my deep meditation is. So let's talk about that body. My question now is: Can the Yi usefully operate at the level of the conscious body. I'd say no, and here's why: the Yi registers in the human mind via images and words. Images and words are the furniture of the mental body. Without images and words, the Yi communicates not at all, it seems to me.

If it's a representation, then it represents via images and words, as I said above, and images and words are at the level of thought, not beyond it.


(snip)

Sure, but can the Yi operate at the level of those energies? How could it, when it communicates to us via the mind, that is, on a level other than those energies?

What was the I Ching created to do? Consider what a teacher who
has a knowledge of the ancient teaching and wishes to transmit it
to others may do: he selects certain ideas, practices, and forms that
will make it accessible to the people of his time. Much of what he transmits
directly will be through his example and his being and sometimes
orally,through mind-to-mind energy transfer, telepathically (not the same as
mind-to-mind) etc. He is essentially teaching the whole human being.
What he transmits to one pupil may not be assimilated for many
years after the teacher has died. Perhaps that pupil will one day
be able to transmit the ancient knowledge. Confucius is said to have had
1000 pupils. He taught the different arts,like music and calligraphy, as
well as texts like the I Ching. He passed 70 of his pupils, according legend.

What we call sacred texts,rituals and works of art may feed the
whole being of many although few will be fully aware of how this happens
or learn to cultivate and develop their being to the degree some
pupils of a master may do. The intention of real religions is to
provide a measure of discipline and restraint of the passions of
the body corporate. Many however cultivate practices as chanting,
dance and rigorous prayer exercises that engage body and mind which
can be transformative. The memorization and speaking aloud of
sacred texts of many traditions can have positive emotional and
physical benefits and develop an inner life that leads some to seek to
relate to a higher consciousness.

The I Ching can be studied on many levels. The practices associated
with its study are described by some schools , as the Taoist and
Confucian, but there is much that isn't revealed in writing.
There are many chants and mediums or the planchette are a part of
traditional schools today. The practice of calligraphy is associated
with the study of the I Ching.

When I suggest that the I Ching is metaphorical and represents an
ancient teaching, I mean it can be a cataylst and guide to relating
to a level of intelligence - beyond the mind - that perceives the working
of the laws which the I Ching describes. It is the work of the
learner to experience different states of awareness, which cannot be
expressed in images or words.
 
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pantherpanther

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[QUOTE=elvis;104943]Wu Chi -> Yi Chi -> T'ai Chi -> yin/yang -> T'ai Chi -> Yi Chi -> Wu Chi

From the void, the breathless, the lacking of extension, is detected a change that forms into a whole (great extension, life breath).

There is hierarchy here, reductionism where a whole (T'ai Chi) held for long enough in consciousness will collapse into its yin/yang elements. Those elements are in the dualist form of forms - wholes, parts, statics, dynamics - and processes - producing, distributing, filtering, exchanging. Refining understanding then allows for re-integration and a better understanding of what is going on.

Thus the holistic experience is T'ai Chi and the partials experience yin/yang.

ANY attempt to describe the universe, across all levels, real or imagined, will use language, both directed and mythic. The basic forms used are those of differentiating (objects, aka nouns) and integrating (relationships, aka verbs) where the recursion of such gives us a dimension of classes of meanings mixing the differentiating and integrating to which we then attach instances in the form lf labels etc.

DIRECT experience is sensory experience (real or imagined where imagining seeing lights-up the visual areas of the brain) and the communication of such is through resonance. ANY attempt to describe any level of being will be done so using part/whole forms of representation with the best fit being through use of resonance (see cymatics for example).



Any 'ancient knowledge teaching' will conform to communications using patterns of differentiating/integrating, objects/relationships, and the composite patterns elicited from recursion of those dichotomies. The I Ching reflects that process where we can trace the process down to the neurology and from there out into the universe (the neuron reflecting 600 million years of development of a robust form of communication)



"Tao" as reconciling force is one of three forces that interact in time and space in ascending and descending directions, relating different levels or worlds and producing definite results on each level ,subject to the law of hazard. This describes the activity of different energies or vibrations on all levels.

This has nothing to do with the theoretical model and terminology you have invented which is not based on real observation. What you call "the language of the I Ching" is based on the idea that the I Ching was created by the human mind not higher mind. To understand its symbolism it is necessary to penetrate beyond any culturally influenced interpretations that developed historically.
 

ginnie

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What spiritual book were you thinking of reading?
 

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