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Since the I Ching is from China......

cassius_clay

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I was thinking that asking the I Ching about present day China would be interesting. What that in mind I asked "I Ching since you are from China, comment on present day China. What is your opinion on present day China?"

The anwser I got was hexagram 33, Retreat, with beggining line 6 turning it into hexagram 13 Fellowship with Men.

I was thinking that the I Ching is talking about China retreating (developing its own talents within?) and fellowshipping (developing ties/relationships) with it's own people and other countries. I could be wrong though. What do you think about that reading? Anything you want to say about it? What are some of your thoughts on this? Thanks.
 

lightofdarkness

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33 covers the concept of enticement. It is competitive as is its partner, 31, more cooperative. The focus on 33 is trickary to draw in the competition or be tricked by - but then enticement can do that - all that glitters need not be gold ;-)

Chris.
 

dobro p

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When I draw 33, it most often is a nudge from the Yi that's telling *me* to withdraw from a particular line of enquiry. That might apply in this case.

If the draw is an answer to your question however, it would translate something like: "Present day China is in a phase of withdrawing from fellowship with men." In other words, Chinese culture and government don't see themselves as one with the rest of us on the planet. Which is parallel, I guess, with a similar dynamic going on at present with the US and the Middle East. We live in weird times.
 

frank

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Hi Cassius,

If line 6 is the ONLY line changing, you do NOT get hexagram 13, you get 31! NOT folowship with man but a subbtle influence as goverment towards autonomic regions like Senchen, Hong Kong, Shanghai, and provences like Guanzhou... (33 > 31), a tendency the goverment has taken years ago already...

Frank
 
R

rosada

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Hi Frank,
I think Cassius meant he tossed 3 heads for the first line and gave them a value of 6, meaning the first line would be a change line, and thus 33.1 changing to 13.

Anyway, I always think it's important to first be sure we've read what the I ching says before attempting an interpretation. So often I'll spot something in the book I never saw before when I'm reading it with the question in mind. so,,,

What is your opinion of present day China?
33.
Retreat. Success.
In what is small perseverance furthers.
Thus the superior man keeps the inferior man at a
distance,
Not angrily but with reserve.

This sounds like the IC is saying China is withdrawing from relationships it regards as "inferior" with the thought of preparing for a counter movement.

33.1
At the tail in retreat. This is dangerous.
One must not seek to undertake anything.

Wilhelm comments that "Keeping still" is the easiest way of escaping from threatening danger.

As this was such a broad question, it seems the IC is giving us a very broad answer. IChing seems to be simply commenting on the well known pattern in China to refuse to share much information with the rest of the world and it seems to suggest that one key reason for this approach is concern for safety.

Perhaps thinking Western ways will distroy their culture or even that if the West truly knew their limited nuclear capacity they might be in danger of being attacked.

Or perhaps this seeming secrecy is due to the Yin-Yang principal. As we know more about the the West, the East seems more and more secretive or Unknown.

13.
The superior man organizes the clans and makes distinctions between them.
Is the IC telling us that this China's system works for china?
We had a tenant in our house for a time who came from China. He was a brilliant man, a scientist furthering his studies at Cal Tech. He really opened my eyes about the political situation in China by explaining just how the culture over there is and how Western ideas of would be catastrophic for their situation. I do wish we had cultural exchanges with an emphasis not on which system is best, but why different systems work in different situations.
 

frank

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Hi Rosada,

Aha, OK, sorry for that, it sounded like line 6, but yes, ofcourse, when changing the first line it is said it?s a ?6 on the first line?... Then it could mean China is returning to itself (as line 1 is the Yang line of 24, Return...)... Beware Taiwan :-D... Farewell foreign influences...? China united as equal people (13)...

Frank
 
R

rosada

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Hmmm...some level of divination I'm not familiar with here. How do you know to look at the yang first line of 24 in this instance?
Thanks!
 

frank

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Hi Rosada,

I?ve talked about this a lot on this board :-D! Karcher mentions it in his `Total I Ching? and names it the Outer Operator... then on his site Great Vessel it is called the Inner Operator... and ever since the 70?s dutch I Ching auteurs and study-fanatics Han Boering and Gerben Hellinga, united with Jaap Voigt, Luuk Hamer, Dries Langeveld and the Yi in ?The Group of Five?, where busy with this issue which is very easy to follow. Till some months ago I just called it the method of the ?Phase?-hexagram, like in what kind of ?phase? you are at the moment of the question... Now im starting to understand more the meaning of this Group of Five-people who think that this method will let you know what the things are that you are confronted with, so they call it the method of the ?Confrontational Hexagram?.

To understand and to work with this method there are just two plain and simple rules you have to deal with:

1. Look at the lines as forms of energy... Yang is active energy, yin is non-active energy. A changing line is energy, a non-changing line is not.

2. Make changing lines Yang...

Here, in this particular case, hexagram 33, line 1 change... so I say ?change the first line into yang?... The ONLY hexagram that has a changing line on the position of line 1 ONLY is hex. 24... Therefor I talked about 24 - The Return.... China could be ?confronted? with his or her own roots...

Sounds very solid to me... After years of foreign countries picking in your markets, even till this day, and they become more and more popular, everyone seems to like to invest into China...now it?s time to go for your rights and get back to your roots, but with the foreign money... It?s a matter of time China will get there people back into national feelings... be chinees again, china before everyone, etc... Some generations ago the english created the opium wars, to break open the chinees markets... now China welcomes everyone with money and in time they will throw the people out, and keep the money... A sweet revenge, with every legitemate right to do so...

I hope I made this ?level of divination? a bit more understanable for you, and do not hasitate to ask if I did not...

Hug,
Frank
 
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rosada

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Thank you Frank! Could you provide a couple of examples so I am sure I'm getting this right. Like are you saying ANY hexagram with a single yin changing to yang line in the first place guides a person to consider hexagram 24? So 15.1 for example would also guide you to look at 24?

thx, R
 

lightofdarkness

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15.1 indicates a focus on contributions of 24 as the change is from yin to yang for that line position where that line position is 'controlled' by 24 (the yang element). OTOH a change of yang into yin for the bottom line position means a focus on contribution of 44 to the meaning. It all gets into wave forms where each line position maps to a sine wave of a particular frequency.

From a STRUCTURAL focus, and so yang line positions as actualisations of meaning see http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/WaveInterpret.html

you can add the hexagrams with single lines together to give you a complex hexagram and its associated meaning. Change then introduces consideration of hexagram PAIRS in the form of opposites.

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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BTW - the differences in frequency of each line means that as we move up a hexagram we move from the vague to the crisp, the raw to the refined, the general to the particular. What this means is that the high precision top line is the easiest to change, the bottom line the hardest.
(purity means high frequency and so high precision and that means more sensitivity to differences than in low frequency - its like FM radio vs AM radio)

Chris.
 
R

rosada

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"high frequency means more sensitivity to differences than low frequency". Very useful definition/insight!
Thank you for all of this, Chris!
 
P

peace

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I think it also means moving from earthly (lower lines) to the more spiritual (upper lines).

Then it depends what realm you "normally" live in.
If you're an action person and "rooted" in the earth and with people - changing things in the upper, spiritual realm (more the upper lines) will be more difficult.

Those people who are more focused on the spiritual and ideas, will have a much more difficult time "doing" things/taking actions to change - as compared with ideas in their head.

Rosalie
 

frank

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Hi Rosada (and excuses to Cassius_Clay for hijacking this tread...),

It is realy very easy...

Every changing line is methaphoricly changed into a YANG line, so it does not depend on the fact that it should be a yin or yang line in the first place, it depends on the position on what highed of the hexagram the yangline comes...

You asked for examples:
1. 15.1.... then the confrontational hexagram will be 24, as that is the hexagram with a yang line on the first line...

2. 15.2.... then you have hexagram 7 as confrontational hexagram...

3. 15.1 AND 2... then you have 19 as confrontation, as that is the only hexagram with yang lines on the POSITION of the lines that are changing in the original hexagram...

4. 54, lines 3 & 4... goes towards 11... Then 62 is the confrontational hexagram... as that is the only hexagram with yang lines in positions 3 & 4...

4. Hex. 3... just random... hex. 3... with ALL changing lines... towards... 50... Then hex. 1 is the confrontational hexagram, as ALL lines change, and hex. 1 has yang lines on all positions...

5. Hex. 3.... with no changing line what so ever... THEN hexagram 2 is the confrontational hexagram, as there are no changing lines, therefor no Yanglines to draw...

6. Just do this with every hexagram... and look to what line or lines are changing... then put those lines in a new hexagram and make those positions yang... The non-changing lines stays yin...

This seems also an easier way for explaining the XOR of Chris :-D... I do not need a whole enceclopedia to explain it... (Sorry Chris, no harm mented... :-D)

The difference between Chris' XOR and the method of the confrontational hexagram is that the latter ONLY looks to the lines actually changed... and mentiones 1 out of 64 possible hexagrams. The XOR names all posibilities, I name just 1...

Like when change 15.1... I say 24 is the confrontation... Chris would say...: the 24-ness of 15 is 36... OR the other way round... the 24-ness of 36 is 15...

Or when changing lines 3 & 4 of 54 are apearing I would say: "how to proceed in a compromise situation (54) and have peace with it (11)? By staying low (62)... Chris could say: 'the 62-ness of 54 is 11, or the 62-ness 0f 11 is 54...

etc... :-D.

We both can mean the same things, altough we use different routes and words to get there... That's all... :-D

I hope this has made it a bit more clear to you, and if not, do not hastitate to ask further :-D. Perhaps better then to start a new post...

Huggie,
Frank
 

lightofdarkness

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frank,

Sorry to say but what you have written above is highly misleading re the XOR material. XOR has nothing to do with changing lines etc it has to do with hexagram STRUCTURE and how we can extract its SPECTRUM using XOR.

I think you are confusing XOR with the wave approach material that has a different perspective.

XOR covers line positions, not line changes. Thus to get the description of the 24-ness of any hexagram you XOR that hexagram with 24 to give you a description by analogy with some other hexagram.

ALL hexagrams have their full spectrum described by analogies to all other hexagrams.

Thus the 27-ness of a hexagram has nothing to do with lines 1 and 6 changing since that change is about line content rather than position. What you need to do is 'flip' the top and bottom lines to give you access to the 27-ness of a hexagram regardless of it changing or not, this flipping is about XOR - no divination is involved.

E.g. to get the 27-ness of 01 just XOR and that gives us 28. We have not 'derived' 01 with changing 1 and 6 etc - there is nothing about divination here - we are dealing with structure of a self-referencing system in that such a system can tell you about itself.

The wave material can cover line change issues but there is still more to do with that in that changing lines in a hexagram reflect a 'short cut' in using dodecagrams.

So please dont confuse line changing with XOR where the former is something out of divination and the latter is out of analysis of structures based on self-referencing.

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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To make the point, the 27-ness of 01 is 28. We are still talking about 01. we are not talking about lines 1 and 6 changing 01 into 28. We are talking about a property of 01, its 27-ness where that property is described by analogy to the XORed hexagram, here being 28.

The ability to do this comes from the IDM analysis of self-referencing systems using the 'bit' form of representation that reflects the line format of the IC. We are dealing with an aspect of the IC not covered in traditional material since to uncover it requires working with the binary sequence.

With this method we get each hexagram to describe itself in general by analogy to all of the other hexagrams.

Chris.
 
R

rosada

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oooookaaay...well, anyway, i do understand how you're forming the hexagrams now, fellas, and I thank you for the explanations!
 

frank

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Hi Cassius_ Clay,

I guess we 'knocked you out', as you are silenced :-D? It would be nice to hear if you have anything to add, or not... fair enough.

Hi Rosada,

I understand the 'oooookaaaay':-D! Sorry for that... Just two kids in school getting there ego's out I guess... I hope you just 'get the picture' and maybe try to experiment with the method. Ofcourse you do not have to if it does not work for you... It does for me...

Hi Chris...

To bad for you that you probably do not see what I am trying to tell you... Ofcourse has the XOR nothing to do with changing lines in theory... BUT it's just like imagining a road... and within the middle of that 2 mile long road there is parking space.... I ride in a red car from left to right... (bird view) and you in blue one from right to left... and we both are on our way to that same parkingplace... That parking place is called Hexagram 27... Your blue car runs on gas called XOR and is giving you 64 different ways and speeds to get to that parking spot... My car has a navigational system which is calculating the difference between my car, the speed, and even the mark of oil that's in the cooling system, just to get me to that parking spot...
Your part of the road has 64 different sideways where you can park earlier... My part is just one bouring 1 mile long straight road... Your care is one of a Buick Hex. 1... Mine is of the same....so with an hexagram 1 car, we are on our way to a hexagram 27 parking lane... My navigationalsystem just tells me I will be confronted with some houses along the road where the roofs are almost collapsed... (28), on your side those collapsed houses is just one of the total of 64 landmarks along your part of the road... If you want to look at all of them I will be parked way ahead of you... Is the I Ching not a book that is just telling you where to park, or at least how to get there, AS FAST AS POSSIBLE :-D???

Please don;t get me wrong, I do undertand what you are writting about and it all made a lot of sence to me, it realy does... But in practice, how does it work...

And actually... by getting us to the website over and over again I just start to wander... If you are dating and a girl would ask you about the XOR or the Yi, would you then just say: 'Oh, it's all on my website...'? And when she start to ask to you: BUT I want to hear it from you, right now, right out of your mought'.... then what :-D?

You think to complicated to put this stuff in practice, Chris... They are great and fine things to write about, but isn't a bit to big :-D?

No offence, realy, please carry on the things you do, and hello.... those answers you wrote above are new to me... man, they are short :-D... Realy, hang in there, and please don;t forget: most of the people are closer to understanding theory and all then you could ever dream of, even the ones you thought would never understand...
I Do.

Hang in there!

Hug,
Frank

Take care you all,

Hug,
Frank
 
B

bruce

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Silly me. I thought the change operator was my head.

XORs and Buicks - oh my!

I'm sailing with Rosada on this one, too, and cheer her comment: "I do wish we had cultural exchanges with an emphasis not on which system is best, but why different systems work in different situations."

There may also be consideration for China's position in world politics, without focusing exclusively on her economy. Does her retreat expose her rear to foreign threats? She does appear to live in her own world, aside from the immense world trade economic boost she's experienced. Seems she doesn't wish to make her position known at this time, where nuclear arms, military development and world politics are concerned.

My pithy ching calls 13 "Commune". Not too far from Communism.
 

lightofdarkness

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>
> Posted by Frank (Frank) on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 11:26 pm:
>
<snip>
>
> Hi Chris...
>
> To bad for you that you probably do not see what I am trying to tell
> you... Ofcourse has the XOR nothing to do with changing lines in
> theory... BUT


No buts about it. XOR has NOTHING to do with traditional divination methods re changing lines etc. The STRUCTURAL properties of the I Ching are derived from a particular methodology that encodes the whole in each part - as we have the whole of our species DNA in each cell and LOCAL CONTEXT then determines the expression.

> it's just like imagining a road... and within the middle
> of that 2 mile long road there is parking space.... I ride in a red
> car from left to right... (bird view) and you in blue one from right
> to left... and we both are on our way to that same parkingplace...
> That parking place is called Hexagram 27

Nothing like this at all. You car/parking analogy does not cover the meaning of XOR etc. You are using divination methods to 'predict' some state where the use of coins/yarrow-sticks/marbles or any other 'random' means is used to come up with a hexagram. XOR has nothing to do with this in that it focuses is on extracting details of a hexagram, its properties and methods, without any reference to issues of 'change' etc in the form of divination.

Since the hexagrams of the I Ching define 'all there is' in 64 forms so the description of any details can only be by analogy to other hexagrams. We can zoom-in and move to dodecagrams with 4096 forms or zoom-out to trigrams with 8 forms. Each level is a language made of qualities that allow us to describe all there is from a finite set of qualities - and so each quality has to describe a potentially infinite number of contexts and that is done by analogy. Included in 'all there is' is the I Ching itself and we find from IDM that self-referencing systems will encode the whole in each part and we can interrogate each part to show us the expression of that whole THROUGH that part.

XOR does not deal with process, with change, etc BETWEEN, we are focused on WITHIN where we are dealing with universals USED to describe change where we can extract details of those universals using XOR.

The ICPlus material focuses on the "Book of Structures" as covered in http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/IChingPlus and so focuses on the universals that are the hexagrams. We now have access to full spectrum details on each hexagram far superior to anything the traditional material offers.

The purpose of using XOR is to get fine details on a hexagram where those details are made by analogy to all of the other hexagrams in the IC. This is all about structure and self-referencing, not about issues of the change of one hexagram into another (but it can cover internal changes where local context can push buttons to adapt but the hexagram is still the hexagram)

In the Emotional IC material (http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/EmotionalIC.html or, skipping the preamble, http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/lofting/icplusEProact.html) the focus is on using one's emotions to 'resonate' with a context and so elicit a static hexagram or a changing hexagram. THAT can give you the dynamics of change. You THEN get details on a particular hexagram using XOR. For example, we can identify a hexagram's ideal path of development (IOW if you stay in a context then the development of that context is determined and it will 'push' you along) and the rest of its X-ness natures.

XOR focuses on a hexagram as a static entity and uses a methodology to describe that entity in full. Up till now any descriptions of a hexagram have been through the original 'traditional' material and the interpretations/translations by many sticking within the traditionalist bounds. IDM/ICPlus allows us to transcend that limitation.

Think of it all by using analogy to Astronomy - each hexagram is a star and we can use spectral analysis to get details on that star, giving us how much oxygen is present etc (and so determine the age of the star and what level of nuclear fusion it has reached etc) - all of this is a focus on WITHIN, not BETWEEN.

We can do all of this due to now understanding the properties and methods of self-referencing.

Wilhelm and all other interpreters/translators of the I Ching have not been able to extract spectra since their perspective was constrained by the traditional material. With the spectrum of a hexagram we move past the 'pithy' material and into the depths of the IC and on into the depths of our consciousness and the dynamics of the universe - we get far more detail (and that CAN frighten some - it gives us a book per hexagram, each book of possibly the same size as Wilhelm's original text where he covered all of the hexagrams twice! - IOW 64 volumes describing in detail all hexagrams)

This material then becomes a source of reference. Thus we can get a 'general' idea about a hexagram but to fully understand it we need more details and we can either work in the realm of the ad-hoc or we can extract details from the IC itself using XOR etc. applied to the universal IC where all POSSIBLES, or POTENTIALS, are contained and we get the IC to tell us about itself in full UPTO the level of associating a universal with a local context where our consciousness can fill in the dots.

The Emotional IC shows the use of the IC in describing contexts and all done with no 'magical' elements. The 'magical' comes out of not understanding how our brains deal with wholes/parts etc such that ANY hexagram will give you 'meaning' for any question asked since ALL hexagrams apply to the question. The issue is that the hexagrams are ordered by the LOCAL context into best-fit/worst-fit order and the particular methodology of the 'magical' is to find the 'best fit' by chance or 'synchronicity' etc. The IDM/ICPlus point is that we can get the IC to work very well WITHOUT the 'magical'. That does not mean there is no 'magical' it means there is no NEED for the magical.

The Emotional IC material lets you communicate with that part of your species-nature well refined by hundreds of thousands of years of development and interaction with the environment. The 'issues' that come with emotions being 'suppressed' or 'repressed' by the rational are well known. Given the Emotional IC we get a better chance of getting the 'best fit' hexagram in a consistent manner... but XOR is about qualities WITHIN a hexagram, not about changing between hexagrams.

If you want to get into change etc and making one hexagram from another/others then review the wave model of the IC as covered in previous posts.

Chris.
 

frank

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Hi Chris,

I realy know what you are trying to tell me Chris, and as I said already a couple of times: I DO UNDERSTAND THE THINGS... so don't come up with connections to websites, please! I realy feel sorry right now that by talking about some explanation about the theory of the confrontational hexagram I'm stranded in talks that do not 'hit the jackpot'... The parking story was just a way of trying to communicate, but then again... you and perhaps others, want to 'park somewhere else':-D... I was just using methaphores. I have made things more complicated then they actually are... So scip the connection with the XOR or wave, or whatever... That's not the point... What the point is is that by looking at the changing lines and make a new hexagram where you fill in the spots of changing lines by Yang lines, you create a hexagram that talks about attitudes and challenges you are facing in the mids of going from the received hexagram to the 'end'hexagram... That's it...
I will no longer make any attend to connected things to theories of others only for the purpose to communicate and even preparing myself to give up the views I had for as long as another one is a better replacement of seeing things... And by reading your respons: I did not find it... Let's stop this now... Cassius must be thinking we are just a bunch of Gooffies by now, and he is not that far off :-D...

Hi Bruce and Rosada,

I do understand what you are trying to say Bruce, and I apologize for this Rosada... Just try if it works for you and if it's not I at least will not dreg you into websites... I let you free :-D...

And Cassius, to get back to your request, as we started only to respond to JUST THAT (sigh :-D), I guess hexagram 33 is about a tactical withdrawel and for the rest I stand for what I have been saying here in earlier posts above.

Huggies to you all, and I mean ALL :-D.,
Frank
 

void

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Frank a thread doesn't run and progress just to deal with a querents initial question or suggestion for discussion. There is no contract here 'only to respond to just that' as you say, so there is no need to 'sigh' about it. Thats the whole point of a forum isn't it, exchange of ideas. Its not about simply fulfilling someones request. Felt the need to say that to you as am uncomfortable with your expectation that all must stick only to the initial question of the querent.

Besides I hardly think Cassius wanted a definate answer, more like it was a wish to open a discussion and explore the possibilities.
 

frank

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Hi Void,

I apologize for the fact that you feel uncomphortable in the way I talk about how I expect a forum should be or handle... Maybe it's time for me to look to that a bit less stricked.
I haijacked this post as well, to respond to Rosada in this case as she asked for examples and I created all by myself some responses I was not looking for, and definitly was not 'waiting' for it as well :-D. Ofcourse a forum can be a place where we all share ideas, that is what a forum is all about. But I guess it is something of my own that tells that I need a more strickted way of handling, otherwise the view for me is gone. It's like opening a tread on fruitgummes and all of a suden someone strat to talk about the philosphy of bananas... :-D. Nice subject, but irrelevant of the subject we are talking about... Or is that my own ego who's talking here...? I know I created this tread more or less the way it is going now, where Cassius only asked a question about a certain outcome, and I responded to someone who wanted examples about what I was trying to say, for at least on that way my answer whould have more 'balls'... so to speak. I had no intention what so ever to make you uncomphortable, not even get this tread over to my hands, so I can shuffle my own ideas to the stand. I guess I was trying to explain something in a way I could get closer to people like Chris, but I guess I got that wrong :-D. I know now that XOR is about hexagrams alone and has nothing to do with the changing line-theory... To bad, because they match... But hee, everyone is entitled to handle things and believesystems they want as they are doing... And I guess by receiving hexagram 33, line 1, China is just doing that :-D...

Let's get out of here, and have a drink together :-D.

Huggie,
Frank
 

lightofdarkness

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Frank, you wrote:

> I know now that
> XOR is about hexagrams alone and has nothing to do with the changing
> line-theory... To bad, because they match... But hee, everyone is
> entitled to handle things and believesystems they want as they are
> doing... And I guess by receiving hexagram 33, line 1, China is just
> doing that :-D...
>

Ah -- I think I get what your on about:

(1) the XOR material for deriving a spectrum is valid for static hexagrams.
BUT
(2) you feel the XOR is applicable to changing lines as well.

The answer is yes -- and no. ;-)

We need to step away from divination for a moment and focus on what happens as we build trigrams/hexagrams/dodecagrams.

Hexagrams are not the same as 'hexagrams with moving lines' in that the latter is in fact a short hand version of describing a dodecagram. Now the XOR dynamics of (1) above also apply to dodecagrams in that they are static and there are 4096 of them and XOR-ing will bring out the 4096 aspects of a dodecagram as XOR-ing a hexagram brings out 64 aspects of it.

So it is possible to use XOR on changing lines and get some 'meaning' since you are in fact 'playing' with dodecagram dynamics. This means that at the hexagram-with-changing-lines level you are in fact working with 4096 qualities where we have the 27.1-ness or the 28.1.3.4-ness of a hexagram. To get this to work clearly requires journeying down to dodecagrams where there are 64 12-line symbols per hexagram all compressed into a 'hexagram-with-changing-lines'.

The issue of course is that we are still working statically whereas, for divining, the belief is a hexagram with changing lines is really changing, and not the shorthand representation of the X-ness of some dodecagram.

The issues are in resolution power - trigrams are like looking at the stars with the naked eye. Hexagrams are like looking at the stars with binoculars or a cheap telescope. Dodecagrams are like looking at the stars using the Hubble telescope.

Each level of resolution has a language and a life such that we can be misled about what we are dealing with.

The ICPlus focus on dodecagrams is currently limited but it covers the enfolding and unfolding of changing lines through issues of line compression. Just as alpha centuri to the naked eye is a single star, so through binoculars it is shown to be a binary of alpha alpha centuri and beta alpha centuri. Move to a telescope and out pops proxima alpha centuri.

In the line enfolding model we have a changing line become two lines. If the change is yin to yang then the two lines are yang over yin (reflecting the upwards movement and so change). If the change is yang into yin then we have yin over yang.

Thus the hexagram of 23 with line 1 changing (x00001) becomes the dodecagram 010000000011. The unchanging form of 23 becomes 000000000011. We can apply XOR to all of this and that means it will appear in 'hexagrams-with-changing-lines' but need not be part of that perspective - it is still dealing statically but with dodecagrams compressed into changing line hexagrams.

Note that this compression approach is not the same as adding hexagrams on top of each other (another form of dodecagram creation/interpretation).

Can we validate this 'compression' method? Does it appear elsewhere? Yes it does - see the comments and diagrams re compression (i.e. loss of resolution) of hexagrams in http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/WaveStructure.html

Since there is still work to do fleshing out the hexagrams, the dodecagram work is slow at the moment and will be contentious in that we enter the argument of changing lines being 'real' or just short hand for a dodecagram.

(current draft status:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/64dodecagrams.html )

Note with the XOR that it gives us methodology as well as properties so we see the internal dynamics from begin to end of a hexagram so THIS picks up not change but 'growth' - birth to death of a hexagram and so of a context represented by a hexagram. This can get 'heavy' philosophically so something to think about ;-)

So - I think I get in general what you are focused on but suggest being wary re what the meaning 'really' is - not XOR working with changing lines but XOR bring out the XOR applied to dodecagrams (and so still static forms but with a spectrum that covers properties and methods for each dodecagram. The methods of note are IDEAL such that local interference can upset things).

Chris.
 

void

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Frank, spank ya later
oops I meant see ya later xx
 

frank

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Chris,

You wrote: the answer is yes and no...

My answer: Damn


But glad to discover you getting out of your cocoon to even try to think like me...

Huggie,
Frank
 
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rosada

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I am wondering if there is more we can say about the original question and answer. Could 33.6 -13 also be interpreted as saying we are seeing the tail end of China's "Retreat" and that more and more now we will be seeing this country becoming a major player in the world community, 13?
 

frank

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Hi Rosada,

When you ask for 33.6 the hexagram does not change into 13, but into 32... By changing the top line you could say that China takes the attitude to last long. I'm now doubting what the actual answer was... 33.1 (6 at 1) or realy line 6, as I asked at the beginning of this list of posts anyway :-D...

Frank
 

frank

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Oops, that's 31, and not 32... probably China wants to influence the world in a subtle level... I realy am wandering what the actual outcome was...
 

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