spiritual development

[Trojina]

Oh. How can we rightly translate ancient Chinese if we can't even get our geographic proper English right? Do burgundy, blue and white striped cotton briefs count as underpants or knickers? They must be the former since they have that sewn opening thingy in front.

Bruce the pants/knicker question was given it's own thread...


http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?17995-UK-US-Translation-Thread

you are a man so you will not be wearing knickers (unless you like to wear women's underwear). The striped briefs you describe are not therefore not knickers but underpants or as you say 'briefs'.


I'm not sure how much further we can lower the tone of this thread

Normally Luis would make an appearance about now and Annamaria would give up.

 

[Trojina]

Nice synchronicity, btw. Proof that we're still on topic. And, laughing at your disheveled drawers sounds very Zen to me. Either that or a little loco, which are close to the same thing

'loco' ? I don't know what means....maybe crazy ? will google.

The drawer made me wonder whose drawer it was Some weirdo had stored a really random collection of things, carefully...neatly, for no reason, and then let them get covered in dust.


It was me.....apparently

 

[anemos]

that is enlightenment !

I was very serious. Simple but deep.

 

[sooo]

I'm not sure how much further we can lower the tone of this thread

Normally Luis would make an appearance about now and Annamaria would give up.

N'ah, we're just reaching deep into the Well.

Annamaria has probably achieved Nirvana by now due to so much enlightened dialogue.

Luis is just taking notes, I think.

 

[pocossin]

What I find in my chest of drawers is things I should have discarded long ago.

 

[Annamaria]

N'ah, we're just reaching deep into the Well.

Annamaria has probably achieved Nirvana by now due to so much enlightened dialogue.

Luis is just taking notes, I think.[/QUOTE
Nix nope no nirvana yet but IF you guys continue making me laugh out loud so that my family Starts to suspect that i went totally 'loco' i belive i am nearing to the development of this beautiful lotus flower above my crown chakra very soon, but seroiusly i look forward to meeting you guys in Warsaw, any i Ching news about that from Hilary....?

 

[anemos]

I think we are living big times and solved the riddle of "the path of spiritual Development"

"the path to Spiritual Development is to UN-Develop"

 

[hilary]

Warsaw?

 

[Trojina]

here is another sock in the knicker drawer


http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...bundance)-changing-to-30…-(clinging-like-fire)

 

[bradford]

The term "Spiritual Development" is such a foreign and new age concept to apply to the Yijing.
I can't help but look for a term more consistent with the nature and personality of the Yi.
Maybe Character Development.

 

[sooo]

I don't know about there being anything at all new about the concept of spiritual development, and though I don't view the Yi as a spiritual guide or teacher per se, I think an individual can employ it to further whatever priorities that are important to them, which may include ones so-called spiritual development or character development, both which the fruits are read by others according to their own subjective standards. Personally, my character development will ultimately fertilize the sea with ashes, whereas my spirit, if indeed there is one, will have more use for the fruit of this life than the fishes.

 

[Trojina]

I think every answer does have a spiritual relevance. How can it not. The beauty of Yi is one is learning of ...oh what to call it ? spirituality/tao/character building.......in every question without even realising it.

I may ask for example "what garage ?" and I may pick a garage on the basis of the answer, but I also get to view how I was directed. There is always something to learn in that, always. I see what angle I am directed from...often not one I would have thought of but sometimes one I would have.

That must be why this forum is so busy.......so much to learn and we never stop talking !

(meantime we have some stray socks need balling Tom http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?18211-heisenberg

 

[pocossin]

meantime we have some stray socks need balling Tom

It's done.

 

[Trojina]

Good. Do you think you could fit a buzzer in your kitchen or by your bed so we can alert you at any time to housework that needs attending to ?

 

[pocossin]

Good. Do you think you could fit a buzzer in your kitchen or by your bed so we can alert you at any time to housework that needs attending to ?

When we are truly spiritually developed, we won't need these physical means.

 

[Annamaria]

This is exactly what i mean with the SD.thnx pocossin. I feel responsible to systematize this thread, could we divide my question into 3 categories, before, under and after, than the general question would be how do you work with i ching, f.ex. before Do you meditate, calm your mind from inner chatter in a special way d you tand candels etc, under -do you Use coins, yarrow stalks, dice, computer, etc, after- how - describe the process of making the answer, i am not interested in the final product.-message, but in the process. Thank you for sharing !

 

[Trojina]

Nix nope no nirvana yet but IF you guys continue making me laugh out loud so that my family Starts to suspect that i went totally 'loco' i belive i am nearing to the development of this beautiful lotus flower above my crown chakra very soon, but seroiusly i look forward to meeting you guys in Warsaw, any i Ching news about that from Hilary....?

What I want to know is what on earth you are talking about here ? Warsaw ? Hilary already asked you what you mean ?

So is there to be an international I Ching conference in Warsaw ? Hilary has booked a hotel ? Will we have single rooms ? I hope so. I hope there's a mini bar too.

Please can you tell us what you are talking about ? Patience is not my virtue

 

[Trojina]

What date is the hotel booked for ? I want a room with a view please and a full English cooked breakfast.

It's so good of Hilary to lay this on for us, no expense spared, and I look forward to meeting you all in person, in Warsaw.







BTW Tom I liked that swamp invitation you should have left it there

 

[Trojina]

Maybe we need to start a


We are all going to Warsaw


thread.


Or is it that everyone here is going to a hotel in Warsaw for an I Ching gathering and no one told me....is that it ? Well it's too late now, I'm not being left out....if everyone else is going to Warsaw so am I !

 

[Annamaria]

What I want to know is what on earth you are talking about here ? Warsaw ? Hilary already asked you what you mean ?

So is there to be an international I Ching conference in Warsaw ? Hilary has booked a hotel ? Will we have single rooms ? I hope so. I hope there's a mini bar too.



Please can you tell us what you are talking about ? Patience is not my virtue

Dear trojan i thought that patiance is a common virtue among the i ching diviners, i shall answer Hilary in a second or two IF this is OK with you

 

[Trojina]

Dear trojan i thought that patiance is a common virtue among the i ching diviners, i shall answer Hilary in a second or two IF this is OK with you

Oh no you got that wrong. I Ching diviners don't have virtues .....not that I've noticed....


yes yes I can wait....it will be character building

 

[Annamaria]

Warsaw?

Dear Hilary,
I just made a suggestion about going to Warsaw for some days ago on another thread. The reason was to listen to a summer concert in Lazienki park to some of the Chopins etudes which i found calming and beneficial for spiritual development, some workshops on i Ching, and than Pushkins poetry, i could give it a try and read Onegin in its original version, and of course it would be a pleasure to me to be your tour guide, as for the hotel i do not need a room as i could be staying at my sister's house, of course IF swedish nature is more interesting, it could be an honour for me to organize a life meeting in Linköping, just let me know....

 

[Trojina]

Ah ! I see ! When you said "you guys" I thought we were all going

Oh well.

Better start unpacking

 

[hilary]

Ah - I didn't see that. Better warn your sister to expect everyone...

Actually, I was just wondering whether I might find the courage (and money and time) to go to this:
http://colloque-yijing.djohi.org/
Alas, no Chopin. And a talk about Lacan - could I cope?

 

[sooo]

I'm going on horseback. But I'll need a spiritual horse.

 

[Annamaria]

Ah - I didn't see that. Better warn your sister to expect everyone...

Actually, I was just wondering whether I might find the courage (and money and time) to go to this:
http://colloque-yijing.djohi.org/
Alas, no Chopin. And a talk about Lacan - could I cope?

You may always have the courage to follow what you want... I hade to check about Lacan ... He said " i Began with Imaginary, i then had to chew on the story of Symbolic and i finished by putting out this famous Real" , this could be the key while exploring the i ching divinatory, instead of choosing the text, the image or the Real, one could Unite these three aspects...well even if Chopin was born in Poland , very near Warsaw, so i believe his heart rests in Sacre Coeur....

 

[rosada]

I think it's interesting that talk of Spiritual Development led to talk of sorting out the underwear and sock drawers and all the dust balls an unclaimed objects in-between. Sounds like 50.1 to me and all those lucky comrades going off to Warsaw make me feel like I'm on the wrong side of 50.2. Could Bruce without a spiritual horse be likened to a ting without a handle as in 50.3?

Perhaps we're being given the IC Experiential Spiritual Development Tour?

 

[sooo]

I still have a difficult time determining things like spiritual and character development. Spiritual development means very different things to different people, peoples and cultures. I can understand spiritual ideas or religious beliefs, and expanding knowledge of those different beliefs, and either deciding on one to believe and practice or to see common elements which many of them share and are practiced in different ways, but I don't find much of that in the Yijing, except for how some hexagrams or lines are interpreted in certain ways, such as 52 implying meditation and going so far as to name Buddhism, Taoism, and Wilhelm's Christian family roots, all with their accompanying ideas of morality, but I personality see all that as interpretations, not the Yijing itself. As far as I can tell, The Yijing does not discriminate based on ones religious beliefs.

As for character development, I see it mentioned once, in Wilhelm's 39, but I think the word usage there is also interpreted. I've been thinking, just what character means, and I find the chief meanings to be so fundamental that one doesn't need a Book of Changes to teach them, other being interpreted as such. To me, someone of good character simply is honest with themselves and others, in all respects, someone with integrity. Very basic things, like not stealing, lying, cheating, doing what you say you're going to do; but all that can still be summed up as honesty and integrity. So if the IC were a book to teach character, it could be summed up: don't lie, cheat or make promises you don't keep.

To me, the Yijing is about change and the interaction of the elements, and lessons which can personally be derived through the examples from the natural elements, and so it's fundamentally entirely subjective through interpretation of those natural interactions of elements and forces. In the human sphere, I think Yi deals with our psychology, and in that sense is informative, but still requires employing honesty with ourselves and others.

Unless one already has good character when they employ the Yi, it's unlikely they'll find it useful in the first place.

I have my own ideas of spirit and the spirit world, none of which I can prove, none of which are spelled out in the IC. Good character is also interpretable, though the basics are pretty universally the same, even if the specifics can vary to the extreme. Those things should be learned as a child by ones parents, or if their parents lack good character, they can find examples to follow, if good character is what they desire, or they can decide for themselves through their own conscience. Bad character can also be learned from parents, but ones own sense of right and wrong still guide their conscience, and their character will be thus formed.

Some versions of the Yijing use the word spiritual liberally without ever defining it. That's because no one can, objectively. Or if they can, I've yet to hear it. These are ideas, concepts and sometimes solidify into beliefs; beliefs which are not found in the Yijing.

 

[Annamaria]

I have my own ideas of spirit and the spirit world, none of which I can prove, none of which are spelled out in the IC.[/QUOTE]

I would very much appraciate if you could expand on that, please. :bows:

 

[Annamaria]

So strange i just realized that some sources say that Chopin was born on the 22 of February, http://tifc.chopin.pl/aktualnosci.php