states of mind for the yi

[fkegan]

Hi Panther,

Rely on you to interrupt a nice thread on personal states of mind most appropriate for Yi Oracle appreciation with more of your long blah-blah-blah with so little inherent meaning, it's just not worth going over in detail.

You missed the boat on the meaning of the phrase 'Need to Know' in this thread (surprising for one so proud of his CIA roots) and then try to blather your way out of your mistake. Relax, its OK to make a mistake, just don't get all bent out of shape about it.

There is one tendency to read hex 52 in terms of Keeping Still and therefore about meditation practice. Another tendency to see hex 52 as trigram Ken or Mountain doubled like a mountain range. It is also the negative Dyad of the decad starting with hex 51 or how the Divine thunderbolt hits the human heart, as it were. In this sense it has to do with the structural reality of the awesome as mountains have for most cultures a sense of majesty and power in their size, etc.

For those into Yang and Yin concepts, they both are based upon the ideogram element for Mountain, as something that is clearly visible. Yang as that part of the landmark mountain that stands out in the sunshine like a battle pennant fluttering in the sunshine. Yin as the dark valley that must surround a mountain so that it can be seen as a mountain. Otherwise it would be a high plateau with the mountain surrounded by equally high other earth all around or an island with the mountain surrounded by the sea instead of a valley and then looking like a flat island since only the bit of the peak, no longer high at all, sticking up out of the water.

Frank

 

[solun]

meaning no disrespect to mountain climbers or hermits in my last post actually
because I think Elder Gabriel really does have that unrelenting seeker look in his eyes. He's asking all the questions and feeling all the feelings.
Funny that site should be about iconography and orthodoxy - reading an image for clues about how to go about it.
anyway, I think this particular hermit has something to say, iconographically, to me, and to others if they can read a hermit icon good enough!
I wonder if he winks? probably not. I wonder if he blinks? probably. we have that luxury as humans and not mountain goats i think.

 

[pantherpanther]

meaning no disrespect to mountain climbers or hermits in my last post actually
because I think Elder Gabriel really does have that unrelenting seeker look in his eyes. He's asking all the questions and feeling all the feelings.
Funny that site should be about iconography and orthodoxy - reading an image for clues about how to go about it.
anyway, I think this particular hermit has something to say, iconographically, to me, and to others if they can read a hermit icon good enough!
I wonder if he winks? probably not. I wonder if he blinks? probably. we have that luxury as humans and not mountain goats i think.

Apparently, the Elder Gabriel (1886-1983), who was for forty years abbot of the monastery of Dionysion on Mt. Athos. He seems to be pictured as a "pilgrim" (as in the Russian classic, "Way of a Pilgrim," which teaches the centering "Prayer of the Heart") He is noted for his analysis of 20th century society, but I haven't read what he said/wrote.

Many see Russia's destiny is to incarnate the "New Man" and rule the West, and the Orthodox vision and teaching supports that from the spiritual angle. The nationalist movement in Russia is strong and seeks to identify its ideas with those of the Orthodox church.

Icons are sacred art - they contain spiritual energy. Elder Gabriel's picture does "question" one , doesn't it? Am I here, am I present to how I am?

"There is no peace on the mountain," as an Italian barber once told me.

 

[Trojina]

I wonder if he winks? probably not. I wonder if he blinks? probably. we have that luxury as humans and not mountain goats i think.

This mountain goat picture, never seen anything like it, good image for 22. Can you make it bigger so i can see it better ?

 

[pantherpanther]

Hi Panther,

Rely on you to interrupt a nice thread on personal states of mind most appropriate for Yi Oracle appreciation with more of your long blah-blah-blah with so little inherent meaning, it's just not worth going over in detail.

You missed the boat on the meaning of the phrase 'Need to Know' in this thread (surprising for one so proud of his CIA roots) and then try to blather your way out of your mistake. Relax, its OK to make a mistake, just don't get all bent out of shape about it.

Frank

Frank,
I was aware of need to know in regard to security clearance. The point was its tasteless and inappropriate use. Chogyam's term "spiritual materialism" characterizes many of your comments. I gather from the quotes you have given from your teacher that he pointed out to you your identification with your mind. The heaviness of your thinking fits the saying,"Clever is stupid." Pride in "being right" and "knowing" denies the wish to seek truth.

Your frequent misquoting or misrepresenting what others have said seems unconscious and driven by a need to affirm not only your opinion but also your self-esteem. Otherwise, you would listen better and not miss so much. It can be ridiculous at times. When I made a simple statement about Socrates, supported by relevant quotes, you didn't just flatly reject it but repeatedly - after I had dropped the subject and passed on - posted voluminous quotes by others who clearly were wrong.

pp

 

[fkegan]

Hi pp (I like that form of your moniker, it has such interesting pun value)

If you expect your attacks to have any impact, you have to maintain at least sufficient contact with reality that your words don't come off as pure projection of the dark recesses inside your own mind. Though some of your words are intriguing... see below.

Unfortunately, the 'need to know' reference on this thread had nothing to do with security clearances. [Apparently, you aren't quite up to snuff on US intel doctrine either, isn't operational n-to-k about being a necessary participant in the op not just having achieved the inside status in the hierarchy which is expressed in the various levels of security clearance?]

In this thread, it was a reference to how a personal need for an answer was the best indicator of how clear and satisfying the Yi Oracle result would be. If you had managed to read the other posts on the thread before you took off on your strange tangent you might have caught the drift of the comments that indeed that was what made the difference between a Yi Oracle that hit a bulls eye and those that were just words.

Of course, such subjective honesty is apparently a major problem for you, so you end up posting about other things more convenient to your thought pattern.

BTW, my first technical paper for an occult conference was upon the importance of the occult virtues of 'ignorance' and 'stupidity'. Apparently a perspective not to your liking, but I thank you for what to me is quite a compliment, though I must demur a bit--you laud me with a greater achievement than I can fully accept. It is like you calling me a true uncarved block. Again, I thank you for your kindness and your honor of my achievements in mystical philosophy and initiation. :bows:

(still at the honors you heap upon me)
Frank

 

[pantherpanther]

Hi pp (I like that form of your moniker, it has such interesting pun value)

If you expect your attacks to have any impact, you have to maintain at least sufficient contact with reality that your words don't come off as pure projection of the dark recesses inside your own mind. Though some of your words are intriguing... see below.

Unfortunately, the 'need to know' reference on this thread had nothing to do with security clearances. [Apparently, you aren't quite up to snuff on US intel doctrine either, isn't operational n-to-k about being a necessary participant in the op not just having achieved the inside status in the hierarchy which is expressed in the various levels of security clearance?]

In this thread, it was a reference to how a personal need for an answer was the best indicator of how clear and satisfying the Yi Oracle result would be. If you had managed to read the other posts on the thread before you took off on your strange tangent you might have caught the drift of the comments that indeed that was what made the difference between a Yi Oracle that hit a bulls eye and those that were just words.

Of course, such subjective honesty is apparently a major problem for you, so you end up posting about other things more convenient to your thought pattern.

BTW, my first technical paper for an occult conference was upon the importance of the occult virtues of 'ignorance' and 'stupidity'. Apparently a perspective not to your liking, but I thank you for what to me is quite a compliment, though I must demur a bit--you laud me with a greater achievement than I can fully accept. It is like you calling me a true uncarved block. Again, I thank you for your kindness and your honor of my achievements in mystical philosophy and initiation. :bows:

(still at the honors you heap upon me)
Frank

Frank,
You are making the diverse comments fit your personal view, which they obviously don't. In fact, you responded to the original question in a less informative and thoughtful way than did many others. This is a good example of how your mind filters and categorizes new material according to a set of fixed ideas.

Proclaiming "Need to Know" (whatever it means) as though it was the key to the kingdom was arrogant. What made it worse and tasteless was the phrase "need to know" is popularly associated with mundane matters, namely access to classified records and information. Are you unconsciously playing the Wizard of Oz?

I have long ago complimented you on your achievements, but here I have been noting your lack of attention to what others say which limits the possibility of exchange. Of course, I am guilty of this,too; or I wouldn't be able to observe it in you.

 

[jilt]

I remember from my days on the university that I read "the Catalpa bow" from Carmen Blacker, a british anthropologist. The catalpa bow is a study of Japanese shamanisn -if you ever come along this unknown classic, read it, it's fun, an English lady with her handbag between the shamans. But she also did some fire-walking and concluded: "all went well, in spite of the fact that I did not have a collected mind whatsoever, actually, I was somewhat distracted" (my words, no citations).

At the other hand: in my recent meditations I make contact with god and accept that i am part of god and god part of me. Well, ehhhh -this is not very christian- yesterday god started to tickle me under my heart. It was so so funny, I laughed and laughed and smiled and smiled. Then I thought "I will throw the yi now and get hex 42 with the 2nd and 5th line -with coins. That is what came.

I remember making a birth-hexagram for my daughter (she's almost 22 now). I did all the computations according Sherril and Chu, came hex 15 with the 3rd line. That fits her character perfectly.
Then I decided to throw coins with the question "what is my daughters birth-hexagam" Came hex 15 with the 3rd line.
I thought " why going through all those computations, when asking is much easier?"
I think people who have a long term relation with the yi know about this. I is something you build in time, a mutual understanding, indeed based on love and compassion.

I hope this is a beginning of an answer to Rodaki's question. It has to do with the notion that god and the universe is inseparable from us, but that we, at the same time are also discrete entities, and as such are in a permanent exchange with god-universe, can reflect on that exchange, are being changed and make changes.
This last year I am in a process of leaving a rather classical scietific woldview behind and let it fill with something far more spiritual and alive. Something like to accept that heaven is populated with all kinds of beings we communicate with. In that I am a novice, as a new-born, looking around in amazement to the fountains of love/life. At the same time, yesterday I said to a friend: "getting old isn't nice at all" I'm 54 now.

In eschatological montheistic religions, like christianity, judaism and islam (sometimes I call them jokingly "the holy trinity"), unavoidably you have a discussion if life is predetermined or is there something like a free will. In the Netherland they even waged something like a civil war on this somewhere in the 17th century. Something like "there is a strict plan from god an mankind is guided to judgement-day and is only doing gods will in that plan" at the one hand, and at the other " Why should there be a judgement if there weren't something like a free will. If everything is in strict pathways, there can be no deviation and actually judgement would be a waste of time"

In the yi this dichotomy is irrelevant, because, unlike as in the mentioned religions, there is no absolute beginning (genesis) and no absolute end (judgement day), time is something that comes with all the myriad moments of creation, not a line that begins and ends. It is more like the expanding concentric ripples in the waters that come and die away with every new drop of rain. Change is at the heart of the yi, not a monistic plan. We weave our lives and plans through it, but nothing is for sure.

My change of heart also comes with a deeper acceptance of the continuation of my souls (or whatever it may be addressed) after this life ends for me. Death is not the end, only a threshold. We fear the threshold, the process of dying. Perhaps we are afraid of leaving this world behind, perhaps we are afraid for all our sins and some kind of judgement at the moment of dying, but our lives go on. How? I don't know.

This is something I have known since a long time, but recently I know it for sure. strange, but the yi is part of it. It is as if a door is opening.

 

[rodaki]

wanted to add something about 'need-to-know' . . It often happens to me that I might feel totally confused by Yi's answers because it precisely tells me what I really need to know and not what I presume I need to know . . ahem, clarity again, Yi knows better

Bert, your post made me smile and smile and smile

 

[pantherpanther]

I remember from my days on the university that I read "the Catalpa bow" from Carmen Blacker, a british anthropologist. The catalpa bow is a study of Japanese shamanisn -if you ever come along this unknown classic, read it, it's fun, an English lady with her handbag between the shamans. But she also did some fire-walking and concluded: "all went well, in spite of the fact that I did not have a collected mind whatsoever, actually, I was somewhat distracted" (my words, no citations).

At the other hand: in my recent meditations I make contact with god and accept that i am part of god and god part of me. Well, ehhhh -this is not very christian- yesterday god started to tickle me under my heart. It was so so funny, I laughed and laughed and smiled and smiled. Then I thought "I will throw the yi now and get hex 42 with the 2nd and 5th line -with coins. That is what came...

This is something I have known since a long time, but recently I know it for sure. strange, but the yi is part of it. It is as if a door is opening.

There are diviners (and healers,mediums, psychics, intuitives, mystics et al.) who are successful in what they do but they do not grow or change much as human beings, that is, there is no transformation. Some develop some parts of their being but other parts of their being remain undeveloped. The religious way, for example, may develop the emotional part but leave the instinctual part undeveloped and capable of overwhelming the rest and turning a holy man into an inquisitor and torturer.
To develop the whole being, in a safe and balanced way, requires learning to consciously separate and combine coarser and finer energies, received through food,air and impressions,within one's being. This is best learned in quiet conditions or with others sharing the same aim, but the goal is to become able to practice in ordinary life conditions.

 

[jilt]

Panther,

I think you are referring to people and teachings that claim to have admission to something godly or an authority that normal, uninitiated earthlings have no acces to, and therefore claim an authority over you. That might become a 17-4 situation.

Also some claim to be more initiated then others, as are some more equal then others, things like that.

What also can happen in e.g. Yi-land is, that someone uses the oracle to claim authority over others. something like: "because I have 1 with the 5th line, you have to listen to me" or, 64-4: "I only see devils in my surroundings, have to beat them all". Or, "the oracle said you are a real 4-4 case, therefore communications with you are are utterly futile, please shut up".

It ain't easy to develop into a noble person. Lise once started a thread on this subject (which one was it....).

I think religion has become a confusing word in the course of time. Originally it comes from latin, "religere", meaning to tie or to connect. Religion is making connections. I like that. But now adays religion means something different, something stupid people do, or something fanatics do. But I used the things I learned in science many times to connect things in my worldview, actually as religion. Scientists are even expected to connect the phenomena in the world to a cohearent view for us. Is't that religion or.... Indeed there are some that make anal-science and in the name of science and make bombs. But within that religious system there are also very noble researchers that listen to guts, heart and mind.
The way of the believers. And believers don't investigate, don't check, don't base their insights on experience and sound thinking, things like that.
But in believing is the word "Lief", ethymologically connected with love. In believing we give love to something, someone, a thought. We do it all the time. After a carefull exploration/examination I can start to believe in.......

 

[44bob123]

Marie-Louise von Franz, "On Divination and Synchronicity" suggests the Yijing should only be consulted when there is a real need, i.e. things are going on in the unconscious and archetypes are constellated. Then synchronicity works. It shouldn't be consulted just as a matter of curiosity? Bob

 

[pantherpanther]

Panther,

I think you are referring to people and teachings that claim to have admission to something godly or an authority that normal, uninitiated earthlings have no acces to, and therefore claim an authority over you. That might become a 17-4 situation.

......

Not really. Any normal, serious person can learn the practices, and there are responsible teachers and/or groups in every tradition (and no special tradition) who can be a support, although I have known a few individuals who worked out a safe, practical method by themselves. It takes common sense and discrimination to know which are genuine and which aren't, and perhaps some trial-and-error to see how it goes. Every individual is different: although the practical methods may be basically the same for all, each has to learn through practice how to make it work for her/himself. Wish,patience and sincerity no can supply for another.
When it comes to spiritual matters people often make the simple complicated and don't learn to work.

A teacher of the I Ching and energy arts, B K Frantzis gives good advice on choosing a teacher and/or group , regardless of tradition,East or West, in his book Relaxing Into Your Being.

 

[fkegan]

Jung and Yi and folks making normative pontification...

Marie-Louise von Franz, "On Divination and Synchronicity" suggests the Yijing should only be consulted when there is a real need, i.e. things are going on in the unconscious and archetypes are constellated. Then synchronicity works. It shouldn't be consulted just as a matter of curiosity? Bob

Hi Bob,
There is always a bit of difficulty in those who claim that others should only consult the Yi when they do or only when they find it fits their norms and expectations. Any such claims, including the need for some practice or teacher or anything else violates the fundamental reality of the Yi Oracle. Not everyone who is shown the Yi Oracle or ever uses it becomes a regular. And those that do have their own unique and personal relationship with the Yi which is not at all any business of anyone else to judge.

The interaction between any of us and the Yi Oracle is a totally personal matter and anyone else butting in to make normative pronouncements is strange to the max.

You cite a source on the Jungian notion of synchronicity and Jungian psychology. Neither is truly relevant to the Yi or the Yi Oracle. The technical details of the philosophy of science applied to synchronicity or the limitations of Jungian psychology is a bit technical. So let me mention just one little anecdote to put Jung and the Yi into proper perspective.

Jung's widow liked to tell the European circle of those close to him that her husband said that any European type who actually got involved with Eastern practices (rather than just enjoying dabbling a bit) was like a man who climbed up a huge Oak, went out on one branch high in the air and cut it off between where he sat and the solid, anchored trunk. For Westerners with a fundamental belief in Newtonian gravity, this is obviously foolish and can only lead to a terrible and damaging fall.

When I heard this story, my reply was that from a Taoist perspective, such sawing off the branch one sat upon from the great Oak of Western belief was essential. The Taoist result would be that cut free from the trunk and roots as anchor, the individual could expect to fly off on his branch as though flying on a magic carpet or a witch's broom.

For those who object, that gravity is essential and inescapable objective reality; I refer them to the first lessons of a basic Zen class where a picture of an Ox is put up on the wall and the teacher asks, 'what is this?' The students say, "it is an ox" and the teacher replies, "No, not at all. An ox is a smelly beast and not at all appropriate to be in a classroom. It is a picture of an Ox only."

Similarly, this is STORY about some Westerner climbing up the great Oak of Western knowledge, sitting on a branch doing Eastern practices and sawing himself off that great Oak-- merely an imaginative narrative. No actual Oak of Western knowledge objectively exists and no saw exists, etc. Therefore, each of us is free to tell our version of the imaginative story as we choose.

What is objective, empirical reality and what is merely belief and expectation is totally subjective solely, and only. Synchronicity and Jungian archetypes only work within the belief system of Jung's psychology. The Yi Oracle is its own reality and makes its own relationship to each of us who chooses to cast their own Oracles.

Frank

 

[Trojina]

Marie-Louise von Franz, "On Divination and Synchronicity" suggests the Yijing should only be consulted when there is a real need, i.e. things are going on in the unconscious and archetypes are constellated. Then synchronicity works. It shouldn't be consulted just as a matter of curiosity? Bob

Hi Bob,
There is always a bit of difficulty in those who claim that others should only consult the Yi when they do or only when they find it fits their norms and expectations. Any such claims, including the need for some practice or teacher or anything else violates the fundamental reality of the Yi Oracle. Not everyone who is shown the Yi Oracle or ever uses it becomes a regular. And those that do have their own unique and personal relationship with the Yi which is not at all any business of anyone else to judge.

The interaction between any of us and the Yi Oracle is a totally personal matter and anyone else butting in to make normative pronouncements is strange to the max.


Frank

I agree with what Frank said here yet I have never once cast merely out of curiosity though not for the reasons Marie Franz says. (well not that i can recall anyway....)

For me casting the oracle feels as if it takes a certain amount of psychic energy, its not always something i want to do even when i appear to need to do it and i am more and more of the opinion that consulting the oracles is not just idle throwing of coins that costs nothing more than the energy taken to throw them...I feel the energy its takes is something more than that and that the very act in itself, of consulting may change the nature of things. If things are changed by the consultation then can a consultation be taken so lightly as to ask out of idle curiosity ?

The idea that the nature of things may change through consultation was introduced to me by Luis and though i can't say it makes rational sense or that i fully understand the idea i do kind of understand on an energetic level. That is i can quite tangibly sense on an energetic level, ie in my gut if you like, that there is a special kind of energy expended and returned, the whole person/oracle exchange and it isn't something without any consequence for ones own energy field. (I'm using the word 'energy' all over the place as I can think of no other word to say what i mean)

There seem so many things i need to ask, need to know, and asking costs me in some kind energy equation, and also theres only so many answers i can really process..because of that I can't even imagine wanting to ask a question about something out of idle curiosity....

 

[pantherpanther]

Marie-Louise von Franz, "On Divination and Synchronicity" suggests the Yijing should only be consulted when there is a real need, i.e. things are going on in the unconscious and archetypes are constellated. Then synchronicity works. It shouldn't be consulted just as a matter of curiosity? Bob

She also writes (op cit., pp 39-40):
["]We could all be mediums, and all have absolute knowledge, if the bright light of our ego consciousness would not dim it. … I have myself observed that in states of extreme fatigue, when I am really dangerously physically exhausted, I suddenly get absolute knowledge; … "

As Nobel Laureate physicist Wolfgang Pauli put it, 'The only acceptable point of view appears to be the one that recognizes both sides of reality-the quantitative and the qualitative, the physical and the psychical-as compatible with each other, and can embrace them simultaneously."

Wolfgang Pauli was an interesting demonstration of his own proposition. He visited many laboratories . The scientists found that when he was visiting, many of their ongoing experiments went haywire and produced strange results. So some avoided scheduling them when he was present.

To quote Jung, "Synchronicity is no more baffling or mysterious than the discontinuities of physics. It is only the ingrained belief in the sovereign power of causality that creates intellectual difficulties and makes it appear unthinkable that causeless events exist or could ever exist. But if they do, then we must regard them as creative acts, as the continuous creation of a pattern that exists from all eternity, repeats itself sporadically, and is not derivable from any known antecedents." Jung adds an interesting footnote to the above: "Continuous creation is to be thought of not only as a series of successive acts of creation, but also as the eternal presence of the one creative act"

,
Baruch Spinoza (1632- 1677) expressed theologically the same thought as Jung.* However, Jung did not accept the existence of an independant intelligence or intelligences. He comes close in his statement, "Continuous creation is to be thought of not only as a series of successive acts of creation, but also as the eternal presence of the one creative act" He worked in the psychic world and its contents and interpreted Eastern and Western teachings accordingly - as "Man and His Symbols." his relation to his "daimons" and 'teachers" and writings on the I Ching shows.

* Spinoza Ethics Part 2:

"PROP. VII. The order and connection of ideas is the same as the
order and connection of things.
Proof.-This proposition is evident from Part i., Ax. iv. For
the idea of everything that is caused depends on a knowledge of
the cause, whereof it is an effect.
Corollary.-Hence God's power of thinking is equal to his
realized power of action-that is, whatsoever follows from the
infinite nature of God in the world of extension (formaliter),
ollows without exception in the same order and connection from
the idea of God in the world of thought (objective).

 

[meng]

Marie-Louise von Franz, "On Divination and Synchronicity" suggests the Yijing should only be consulted when there is a real need, i.e. things are going on in the unconscious and archetypes are constellated. Then synchronicity works. It shouldn't be consulted just as a matter of curiosity? Bob

Guess I've been doing it wrong all this time. My curiosity is the reason I inquire 90% of the time. Need to know? mm, not really. Need to know what I want to know, is more like it. Will the Yi accommodate that, or will it speak to what is creating the sense of need?

 

[solun]

hello trojan,
if you right click the image and select properties, it will give you the url. !HIghlight that in it's entirety and copy (Ctrl C) and paste it(Ctrl v) to your address bar, or go to google images and type in mountain goat. The photo is as it appears there, same size.
I often feel bad for animals in these types of photos, it seems they are sometimes forced into dangerous situations by their fear of the helicopter or plane that is pursuing them for the photo ... like the stampedes that jeopardize the young in herds that are being flown over ... these two goats look like they have been driven to the edge.

hello panther,
the info on the Russian orthodox/nationalist front was very interesting. I am inspired to look more closely at this. I thought the iconography aspect was interesting in light of the fact that the hexagrams are pictograms or icons in a sense, albeit more abstract.

 

[solun]

sorry trojan, tried to enlarge mtn goat photo in editor mode, arrows wouldn't do a thing

i know the photo is of two mountain goats on a narrow ledge with apparently no way out and a waterfall is in the upperground. I hope they can turn around, they are mountain goats anfter all and maybe they were ok.
poor animals. foul humans.

 

[rodaki]

hi Solun, Trojan (and everyone else of course )

Solun I followed your 'right click' instructions and played around with the url a bit . .
the image is not a photo really, it is a painting from redsunfineart.com . .

try this link . .

 

[Trojina]

sorry trojan, tried to enlarge mtn goat photo in editor mode, arrows wouldn't do a thing

i know the photo is of two mountain goats on a narrow ledge with apparently no way out and a waterfall is in the upperground. I hope they can turn around, they are mountain goats anfter all and maybe they were ok.
poor animals. foul humans.

thanks for trying. I hadn't thought the goats had been forced into this position as in a discussion on 22 Brad had talked about how mountain goats need to keep a near vision,http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=7807 to pick their way on sides of mountains so i thought it was something natural to them..but i don't think i ever saw a goat this close to the edge

 

[Trojina]

hi Solun, Trojan (and everyone else of course )

Solun I followed your 'right click' instructions and played around with the url a bit . .
the image is not a photo really, it is a painting from redsunfineart.com . .

try this link . .

Nice One ! Thanks.

 

[rodaki]

You're welcome wouldn't have found it without Solun's instructions though . . two minds work better then one

it's interesting to read what the artist Bateman had to say about this painting

Of all of the American mammals, the world of the mountain goat is the most rarified and precipitous, and yet he negotiates it with the nonchalant ease of a stroll in the park. I would be in a state of sheer terror if I was in their position, but the goats' bland expressions are compatible with their confidence. - Robert Bateman

http://www.redsunfineart.com/robert_bateman.html

I think it sounds very much like 22, nice catch!

 

[fkegan]

Hi Solun, Trojan, and Dora,

There is something of a first lesson in Zen in these comments upon the mountain goats. Is an image just an imaginative fiction or the actual, living reality in all life's razor's edge of fleeting now with possible pain and destruction looming all too close?

And how does this reflect the state of mind most appropriate to fruitful Yi Oracle interpretation?

The Yi Oracle offers a symbolic snapshot or imaginative image of the situation and process inquired about. Our state of mind makes it either a connection to the poignant possibilities and looming difficulties or a peaceful illustration removed from the din and chaos of current experience.

Frank

 

[rodaki]

reading Bradford's selected quotes on hexagram 51, I came across one that made me think of Solun's image . .

Yet I know that I dwell in the midst of the roar
of the Cosmic Wheel
In the hot collision of Forces, and the clangor
of Boundless Strife
Mid the sound of the speed of worlds, the rushing
worlds, and the peal
Of the thunder of Life

W. Watson, "Dawn on the Headland"

maybe sometimes we are at home in the divination process, no matter the roar and difficulty of context, we are like those mountain goats on a steep cliff
and other times we do feel out of it, as if we are just onlookers to a scene that seems unfamiliar and scary . .
I think knowing both helps us proceed keeping that chalice intact . .


:bows:

 

[solun]

rodaki, OMG! it's a painting!! And what a beautiful one too! I am so relieved that these animals weren't forced to the edge by a flying machine armed with cameras. I don't like all this exploitation of animal habitat by wildlife photographers, so it made me cringe to think ... but good on your talents for the discovery! It looked so real! Still does~!

 

[rodaki]

hi Solun

yes, it is a beautiful and powerful image!
trying to think of myself there filled my ears with the constant roaring sound of cascading waters . . unending . .