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Stay with this? 40.4,5,6 > 59

em ching

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Hello,

This is a medical question so I understand if there are reservations in giving direct interpretation, but I have started taking anti-depressants (after one too many pot-holes, and feeling locked in around people). It has only been 3 days but I do feel weird - bit hyper, fearful, disturbed sleep, groggy - but then I've read that this is just your body re-adjusting and it'll settle down - and they'll do their job ie. give you your bounce back.
Thing is they have a different effect on different people.

I asked 'Should I keep taking them?'
40.4,5,6 > 59

... kind of suggests I should liberate myself from anything I could be dependant on (40.4) and the high inferior - the hawk on the wall is the pills? OR the inferior 'hardened in his wickedness' could be the depressive and negative thoughts I have inside that I can't see changing, unless I change.

And 59 suggests dissolving something - I wonder if it means the anti-depressants will loosen up the hardness inside me that has become used to feeling bad? I should probably give them more time, but what with reading about the side-effects... and feeling a bit funny..

Would really appreciate impressions here. I suppose as I said 'should I keep taking them' rather than 'should I stop taking them' might have a bearing...
Maybe it's saying the medication will liberate me by melting the ice (ie. my depressive state) or then again.. does say not to be dependent...

:confused::bows:
 

em ching

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I found these interpretations of line 5 and 6 on http://daoloatse.wordpress.com/

5.Letting go of bad influences requires inner resolve and strength of character. Weak people who have attached themselves to a stronger person are not easily shaken off. The only way to free yourself from negative associations is to free yourself from them inwardly first; sooner or later, these unwanted others will get the message, and fall away of their own accord. Tolerating unhealthy relationships and associations brings misfortune.
6.When your main obstacle is a cunning adversary, forceful removal of that person from the scene may be the only option. When such drastic action is called for, quick, precise action is necessary. As the element of surprise may be critical to success, discuss your plans only with those who have an absolute need to know. (This line can also be interpreted to apply to a bad habit or situation, or anything calling for immediate removal in order to assure success.)



Maybe these will represent taking steps towards shaking negativity's grip on me...?
 

Trojina

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Hi Em, that answer 40>59 looks like such great release. Dissolving all blocks (59), letting go what you don't need in 40...phew it just feels like a big breath out to me.

But does it mean if you should continue taking them or not. First glance to me it appeared advice to let them go...BUT could be they provide this release for you, that if you continue taking them they will really release you in some way. I don't know which it is really and as you said yourself am not qualified to say not knowing you personally or medically

However

Your priority here is not any moral sense of should and so on, its about whether you consider yourself to be ill or not. I personally think there comes a stage where the illness of depression takes on a life of its own,....where it is an illness. Theres many kinds of depressions I think., some are like quite a savage debilitating illness...these are the times medication can be absolutely the best thing to ease your suffering. Others are more fleeting, more circumstantial and so on....If i were you i would try to weigh up how unwell i feel, how much my life is affected, whether you can sleep or so on. I think its a good idea to look at your answer in terms of your suffering. If you had a headache constantly you'd probably take some pain killers then find out the reason for them..cos you can't think clearly about causes of a headache if you are in constant agony. Can be like that with depression too.


All I'm suggesting here is that you drop the shoulds and try to treat yourself according to how much relief from suffering you need right now., and see your answer in light of that.

Everyone has their limit, where they just can't take anymore. I see anti depressants as possibly saving many people by helping them at these times...then again they can have unwanted side effects, be difficult to come off etc. I guess its choosing the lesser of two evils and unfortunatley GPs hand them out to everyone who says they feel tired etc so one has to make ones own choice really.

Hope you soon feel better
 
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jesed

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Hi

I take it as a strong yes.. as the effect of the intended action.

But more important, is that you talk with your doctor (the one who prescribed the pills) about this symtomps. Some times it is just adjustment; some times you can try another medicine; some times is better to stop using pills. The close talk with your health professional is esencial.

Best wishes
 

Trojina

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You have been soldiering on with this depression for some time as well haven't you Em....maybe you could give them a bit more of a chance to work, or talk to the dr like Jesed said.
 

ann

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Em Ching, if you have been living with depression for a long time, then getting release from it might need some work other than taking pills. This isn't to say 'don't take the pills' - I wouldn't dream of saying that.

Five years ago I was nearly on my knees and my dr prescribed anti depressants. I was glad of them because I felt so terrible but I was very determined to be free of them. After much searching, it turned out that my depression did indeed have physical causes - an inability for my liver to convert a hormone into another hormone. T4 to T3. I also did a LOT of work with a complementary therapist and also a LOT of work with the emotional freedom technique = EFT. Look at www.emofree.com

Like Trojan, I think Yi is talking about freeing yourself - but whether of the root causes of the depression, or of the pills, I don't know. Pills can be a big help in getting you 'up' enough to start doing the personal work that will eventually free you, but in my experience 'the work' is what really does the job. And I have found that EFT is the most painless way of slaying those dragons!!

Hope you soon feel much better:hug:
 

diamanda

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Hi Em! You asked, should you keep taking them, and the answer said
"get rid" and "dissolve". I would personally take this as a no, don't keep
on this course. If it was a yes, it would speak of perseverance. This one
speaks of getting rid.
 

Trojina

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i think its really hard to say, i could see it both ways. i guess another question re not taking them might help. 40 doesn't always mean 'get rid' of course but it could be 'get rid of the depression' as in taking the pills will get rid of the depression

So often these days Yi presents me with how it will be regardless of my actions which is kinda weird sometimes so hopefully this is a really good omen for Em whatever way she decides..cos to me the answer shows relief from this tension is definately possible which has to be good news...that may come spontaneously as in feeling better not needing the pills OR continuing with the pills and feeling better....at least feeling much better is definately hovering in the air as a reality somewhere. Yi isn't saying you have to sit this out, you're in for a hard slog or anything like that...its more like the light at the end of the tunnel is actually in sight.

Length of the depression and the effect it has on Ems life..just how long shes been in this dark tunnel and how mentally painful it is has to decide her i think.


sorry to talk of you in the third person Em...and to possibly confuse you...but shows we are thinking of you and do care
 
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peter2610

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Hi Em,
Have you considered asking a follow-up question such as 'Please give further guidance, should I continue taking ...' I've often found that, used in moderation, additional questions can help produce greater clarity. Peter
 

em ching

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Thanks so much everyone! :hug:

Trojan: BUT could be they provide this release for you, that if you continue taking them they will really release you in some way...
Your priority here is not any moral sense of should and so on, its about whether you consider yourself to be ill or not. I personally think there comes a stage where the illness of depression takes on a life of its own,....where it is an illness. Theres many kinds of depressions I think., some are like quite a savage debilitating illness...these are the times medication can be absolutely the best thing to ease your suffering. Others are more fleeting, more circumstantial and so on....If i were you i would try to weigh up how unwell i feel, how much my life is affected, whether you can sleep or so on. I think its a good idea to look at your answer in terms of your suffering. If you had a headache constantly you'd probably take some pain killers then find out the reason for them..cos you can't think clearly about causes of a headache if you are in constant agony. Can be like that with depression too.



Yes exactly. That is the stage I have got to. And I have had sabotaging thoughts for years now which I need to be liberated from, and I've read that chemical imbalances can be caused by stress and upset as well as be the precursor - which can stop you feeling better and having good days etc. if it has been long term.


Ann: Pills can be a big help in getting you 'up' enough to start doing the personal work that will eventually free you, but in my experience 'the work' is what really does the job. And I have found that EFT is the most painless way of slaying those dragons!!


Thanks for sharing your story. Yes that's what I felt - that they could just put me in a different head space or change my patterns which would allow me more strength to change my outer-self and environment.

Diamanda, yes that was my initial impression but today I feel better. I have sweaty palms a bit but the anxiety has gone and I had a good night sleep. I already feel like I've been put into a more positive frame of mind so I think I'm inclined to see the answer as giving me a picture of what they're doing at the moment.

Trojan: but it could be 'get rid of the depression' as in taking the pills will get rid of the depression... So often these days Yi presents me with how it will be regardless of my actions which is kinda weird sometimes so hopefully this is a really good omen for Em whatever way she decides..cos to me the answer shows relief from this tension is definately possible which has to be good news

Yes I have got that impression too before, that the yi overrides your question a bit to say what it wants to say about your issue.

I did ask a follow up Q and 59 came up again! :D
I asked: What is going on in my body now re. the anti-depressants?

59.2,3,4 > 33

59.2 could be indicating that inside I was in danger (which I really felt last week) and they are supporting me so I don't dissolve completely
59.3 'under certain circumstances a man's work may become so difficult that he can no longer think for himself... he must dispense what the self gathers about it to serve as a barrier against others' (and that is exactly what I've been doing! Not trusting not being able to be open and communicative with anyone, even family sometimes. Also I have been getting stressed out by my work-load and feeling the pressure - but today I feel more relaxed about it and able to cope!)
Line 4 I'm not sure how it relates but maybe it's about distancing myself from my old ways..
And hex 33 > the bad chemicals, hormones, thoughts are in retreat!? Being dissolved? Dispersing to ice to water? So that I flow in multiple directions not just one (negative) one...

That is how I feel about them at the moment, so I'm going to stick with them. I've seen them do wonders for my cousin too, even though her life continues not to be perfect, she has now got hope, enthusiasm and self-belief - and so is taking action to change her life, when before she just didn't bother.

Thanks so much again everyone :)
I am going to maintain my awareness of becoming dependent ect, but the side effects are much less noticable today, and I do feel happier - and I think I can sense that the little things that bring joy to others are getting their power back for me too, and less hopelessness. Even actually, remembering good times I've had rather than dredging up mistakes and regrets.
Anyway, we'll see how it goes :rolleyes:

:bows:
 

Trojina

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I did ask a follow up Q and 59 came up again! :D
I asked: What is going on in my body now re. the anti-depressants?

59.2,3,4 > 33

59.2 could be indicating that inside I was in danger (which I really felt last week) and they are supporting me so I don't dissolve completely
59.3 'under certain circumstances a man's work may become so difficult that he can no longer think for himself... he must dispense what the self gathers about it to serve as a barrier against others' (and that is exactly what I've been doing! Not trusting not being able to be open and communicative with anyone, even family sometimes. Also I have been getting stressed out by my work-load and feeling the pressure - but today I feel more relaxed about it and able to cope!)
Line 4 I'm not sure how it relates but maybe it's about distancing myself from my old ways..
And hex 33 > the bad chemicals, hormones, thoughts are in retreat!? Being dissolved? Dispersing to ice to water? So that I flow in multiple directions not just one (negative) one...

That is how I feel about them at the moment, so I'm going to stick with them. I've seen them do wonders for my cousin too, even though her life continues not to be perfect, she has now got hope, enthusiasm and self-belief - and so is taking action to change her life, when before she just didn't bother.

Thanks so much again everyone :)
I am going to maintain my awareness of becoming dependent ect, but the side effects are much less noticable today, and I do feel happier - and I think I can sense that the little things that bring joy to others are getting their power back for me too, and less hopelessness. Even actually, remembering good times I've had rather than dredging up mistakes and regrets.
Anyway, we'll see how it goes :rolleyes:

:bows:
Looks to me like the chemicals in the drugs are dissolving/dispersing in the body...doing some rescue work as in possibly 'rearranging' neorotransmitter patters/serotonin whatever in the brain, that show i see 59.4...your brain actually get a chance to do things differently giving you a break..., and a break from your usual patterns as you say. I think 59.2 is often around taking quite traditional or usual means of support, infact i recall getting it more than once about using 'western' medicines...to good effect i might add. i think 59.3, dispersing the self, well i think that might be the letting go the drugs may help you to do..letting go of being so plagued by all your anxieties and so on. The 33 of course retreat from danger and injury. Hmm yep I pretty much agree with your interpretation here.

I think you made the right decision for you at the moment...if things change you can reconsider but for now these answers do seem to support the medication option.

As for dependency...hmm I was once (unintentionally) hooked on benzodiazepines and it was hell getting off them but these new anti depressant drugs are a totally different kettle of fish i understand. Some don't find them addictive at all and have no problem coming off them...whilst others do BUT even if you do have trouble coming off theres plenty of support around in helping you to do it, not only from the Dr but from all kinds of drug support groups ...so fear of dependency isn't a good reason to forgo all the immediate benefits they may bring you..IMO of course...but you're wise to be aware of the dependency issue.

Good Luck :hug:
 
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luz

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Em,

I'm glad that the anxiety is going away. From what I understand, antidepressants are often prescribed along with benzodiazepines (for anxiety) , at least at the beginning of the treatment, precisely because you might experience those symptoms you experienced.
My personal experience is that I was once prescribed Paxil (which is an antidepressant) for anxiety, as the doctor saw this something I could take long term. I took HALF the pill for two days, I think it was, and I had the worst panic attack I've ever had. So I totally discarded them. But then I learned that I probably should have taken them along anxiety medication and maybe they would have worked better.I'm glad I didn't go on taking them because I don't really like to take medication much (I even hesitate to take Advil!) but I can see how it's really necessary in some cases. So, if I totally had to take them, I could definitely take it along with some benzodiazepenes at the beginning.

Good luck!
 

em ching

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Thanks!
Today I am feeling the anxiety again and ruminating that I did the first two days, so not as good a day as yesterday, but from what I gather they take a while to settle. I'm going to stick with them anyway.

I'm taking Citralopram. One in the in the evening as taking them in the morning made me feel drowsy in the day but the doctor did first say morning. I wonder if it makes a difference in how you metabolise them and maybe they're more effective taking them in the morning and the drowsiness is an initial side effect that'll wear off... Have read numerous forums online contemplating this topic and it seems a split issue so I'm still not sure whether to switch again.

I should probably ring the doctor just in case and I will tomorrow, but I asked the Yi
Continue taking them at night?
34.5,6 > 1

This to me either means drop the issue (line 5) and don't perhaps over-think it and get more entangled in ruminating type behaviour and allow the creative power to work Or that I should take action, and start again (hex 1) by switching to taking them in the morning...

I then asked, does that mean take them in the morning?
15.1 > 36

Is about being unassuming and attending to a matter quickly and simply.. so perhaps saying this switch needs to be done.. but then injury (36)...

Maybe it doesn't so much matter either way. And I will ring my doctor, but if anyone has had any experience with Citalopram and/or ideas on these readings it would be interesting to hear!

:bows:
 

Trojina

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whats great about the internet is that theres an online forum about everything isn't there...no one is ever alone with their interest or problem anymore..however wierd it is..(not that taking citralopram is weird).

Hmm i don't know anything about this drug but reckon a chat to your Dr tomorrow is the best option. I doubt the drug will have really taken full effect yet and these troubles with decision making are all part of depression. Also if you can't get to speak to your dr right away chemists are of course very knowlegable and helpful. They will know why morning is said to be the best time....


Generally when the time to take a drug is specified I find its just that thats the optimum time to take them...not that they don't work at other times, well I guess you knew that. I'd imagine it can't do much harm to take it in the evening again just for tonight, well you have no option now as it is evening...

Re the readings, looks like you are half in, half out of the hedge (34.6). You want to charge on through but you can't you have to wait, do a bit of wiggling, ie make little adjustments. Actually I see 34.6 as descibing where you are. You've begun a course of action you aren't entirely sure about...going back isn't an option, going forward seems troublesome also. Accept you are sort of in an in between phase right now, try to relax, things will get far less complicated if you just stay where you are for now doing what you're doing.

Re the 15.1 i think thats a call for simple action. I really couldn't say if it means take them in the morning, I'd rather see it as follow what the dr tells you on this...and of course also tell him you don't like to take them in the morning as they make you drowsy and he may be able to help. He may of course just tell you this is an adjustment period and after a while of taking them in the morning you won't feel drowsy anymore..hmm that would pretty much be like the rams position in the thorn bushes.

Also as with following any medical instruction theres a degree of surrender to the advice given. We consciously have to make a choice whether we are going to trust...or not. There are studies that show patients who are committed to a course of treatment, (ie they decide to put doubts aside and really give it a try) actually get the most benefit from that treatment


15.1 might be a reminder that many many people suffer from what you do,, these drugs have been developed especially for this, in that respect theres a degree of humility in making this personally as least complex as possible. You have a known illness, theres some help available.., doing that simply (15.1) following the instruction is the way forward. I'm not at all sure i made sense there...but whats new :rolleyes: 36 is the context, the background...you are 'injured' in a sense...anyway thats nothing to worry about as 15.1 is the main focus of the answer IMO.

Might be an idea to talk to him about the anxiety too. i think some of these anti depressants can really send anxiety rocketing initially anyway
 
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tigerintheboat

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Impressed

I asked: What is going on in my body now re. the anti-depressants?

59.2,3,4 > 33
Em, I didn't know you had this thread going... but this reading seems to be a positive one.

You are in retreat (H33), which is a strategic retreat. Retreat is not running away, it is gathering strength to fight other battles. In H59.2, you are dispersing, fleeing to your support and regrets vanish. If this drug has become support, excellent! In H59.3, you are leaving behind the heaviest part of yourself, and psychologically, this is what we want. In H59.4, dispersing gains the high ground, where ordinary thinking does not go.

All of this sounds very good, like you are going to get what you want from this path. Stay in touch!:)

Best
Tiger

 

em ching

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Re the readings, looks like you are half in, half out of the hedge (34.6). You want to charge on through but you can't you have to wait, do a bit of wiggling, ie make little adjustments. Actually I see 34.6 as descibing where you are. You've begun a course of action you aren't entirely sure about...going back isn't an option, going forward seems troublesome also. Accept you are sort of in an in between phase right now, try to relax, things will get far less complicated if you just stay where you are for now doing what you're doing.

Re the 15.1 i think thats a call for simple action. I really couldn't say if it means take them in the morning, I'd rather see it as follow what the dr tells you on this...

He may of course just tell you this is an adjustment period and after a while of taking them in the morning you won't feel drowsy anymore..hmm that would pretty much be like the rams position in the thorn bushes.

Also as with following any medical instruction theres a degree of surrender to the advice given. We consciously have to make a choice whether we are going to trust...or not. There are studies that show patients who are committed to a course of treatment, (ie they decide to put doubts aside and really give it a try) actually get the most benefit from that treatment

15.1 might be a reminder that many many people suffer from what you do,, these drugs have been developed especially for this, in that respect theres a degree of humility in making this personally as least complex as possible. You have a known illness, theres some help available.., doing that simply (15.1) following the instruction is the way forward. I'm not at all sure i made sense there...but whats new :rolleyes: 36 is the context, the background...you are 'injured' in a sense...anyway thats nothing to worry about as 15.1 is the main focus of the answer IMO.

Hello and thanks Trojan! Very helpful what you wrote above especially what I've put in bold.
I have switched to taking them in the morning now - and don't feel groggy today! So maybe that's passed and as you say it's a period of adjustment - I have a bad habit of expecting the worst or at least jumping to conclusions and taking matters into my own hands impulsively sometimes without giving things a chance. Think lack of trust (and indecision) may have something to do with it! Working on it...

Not feeling particularly happy (as in hyper or weirdly excited) today, but not sad or anxious either - even keel! So that's good. Keeping buoyed :)

:bows:
 

em ching

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You are in retreat (H33), which is a strategic retreat. Retreat is not running away, it is gathering strength to fight other battles. In H59.2, you are dispersing, fleeing to your support and regrets vanish. If this drug has become support, excellent! In H59.3, you are leaving behind the heaviest part of yourself, and psychologically, this is what we want. In H59.4, dispersing gains the high ground, where ordinary thinking does not go.
Thanks Tiger - yeah that's what it feels like, a strategic technique - trying to block myself from the bad chemicals by introducing more good ones hopefully :) Dispersing and inserting.

:bows:
 

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