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Tai Xuan Jing - new translation

pocossin

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Please do not buy this book. It's stolen.
 
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pocossin

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It's not a new translation. It's Nylan rephrased.

Michael Nylan, p.56: "This tetragram is aligned with Fire, whose nature is to rise up; hence the image of ascent. In the natural world of Heaven-and-Earth, it is now the Lesser Cold solar period, when the shoots of living things first appear, like arrow tips pusing their way through the soil."

Alexander Goldstein, p.133: "This tetragram is aligned with Fire, whose nature is to rise; hence the image of Rising derives. In the natural world, it is now "Xiao-han," or the Lesser Cold solar period when the shoots of living things first appear, like arrow tips pushing their ways up through the earth stratum."

Please do not buy this dishonest book.
 

stonebridge

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Oops! What a mismatch indeed

What a silly recommendation you make! The quoted above image does not pertain to Nylan's creativity but a translation from Fan Wang commentator's imagery. Before giving people such a recommendation, I'd kindly suggest you first research the material to see the difference in approaches rather than pick on "piracy" :eek:
 

pocossin

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What a silly recommendation you make! The quoted above image does not pertain to Nylan's creativity but a translation from Fan Wang commentator's imagery. Before giving people such a recommendation, I'd kindly suggest you first research the material to see the difference in approaches rather than pick on "piracy" :eek:
If your book is actually a new translation, I apologize. However, what it appears to be in places is Nylan awkwardly rephrased.

Alexander Goldstein, p.133: "This tetragram is aligned with Fire, whose nature is to rise; hence the image of Rising derives. In the natural world, it is now "Xiao-han," or the Lesser Cold solar period when the shoots of living things first appear, like arrow tips pushing their ways up through the earth stratum."

"This tetragram is aligned with Fire, whose nature is to rise; hence the image of Rising derives."

-- "Derives" is unnecessary. Why tack it on?

"In the natural world, it is now "Xiao-han," . . ."

-- It is most unlikely that pinyin would occurs in a Chinese text of 1700 years ago.

". . . pushing their ways up through the earth stratum."

-- "Earth stratum" is an awkward way to say 'soil', as Nylan has it. Why the evasion of the obvious?
 

sergio

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Mr. Goldstein also claims incorrectly that his is the " first translation of "Tai Xuan Jing," or the "Canon of Grand Triad" (hereinafter is referred to as “Triad”) into English made as a guidebook for divination rather than a philosophical treatise."
The alternative I Ching by Derek Walters first published in 1983 beat him for a mere 29 years. His book presented the T'ai Hsuan Ching's method of divination consulting its 81 diagrams together with the calendar on which this oracle was based.
Sergio
 

stonebridge

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It Was Once a Translation but Not for Divination

Yes, Mr. Sergio, for your information, "The Canon of Grand Triad" is the first translation ever available for divination. I just wonder how can you use Derek Walters's book for this
so far. A true mystery, my friend! :rofl:
 

pocossin

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a simple tai xuan divination

Take three pennies, one bright, one dull, and one dark. Shake in hands and with eyes closed, pick a penny. Bright = heaven line, dull = earth line, dark = man line.

Code:
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄  a heaven line. value = 0
▄▄▄  ▄▄▄  an earth line. value = 1
▄▄ ▄▄ ▄▄  a man line. value = 2
Construct the tetragram from the top down and repeat to make four lines. Yesterday at 8:22 pm with the question "What to do about Alex?" I cast and received three dark pennies and one bright.

Code:
▄▄ ▄▄ ▄▄
▄▄ ▄▄ ▄▄
▄▄ ▄▄ ▄▄
▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄
Read this pattern as a number to the base 3 and add one:

2 * 27 = 54
2 * 09 = 18
2 * 03 = 06
0 * 01 = 00

The sum is 78. Add 1, and the resulting tetragram is 79.

The head (judgment analogue) of 79:

79. Difficulties #39 (2)
HEAD: Yin ch'i makes difficulties on all sides. Water freezes, the earth cracks. Yang drowns in the abyss.

Line text analogues (Alex calles them postulates) are selected according to the time of day the question is asked:

1 5 7 morning (12 am - 8am)
2 6 9 midday (8 am - 4 pm)
3 4 8 evening (4 pm - 12 pm)

I cast at 8:22 pm so the relevant texts are 3 4 8.

3.
A center firm and fixed
Troubles the "inconstant."

4.
When the egg breaks against a stone,
The undeveloped dies.

8.
Crashing against stones, snapping trees in two,
He merely breaks his horn.

This is not a happy casting for getting anything done. The forces of inactivity dominate, and (line 8) it is pointless to fight against them. I truly would like for Alex's translation -- as questionable as I find it -- to revitalize interest in the tai xuan. Doesn't seem likely.
 
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sparhawk

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Yes, Mr. Sergio, for your information, "The Canon of Grand Triad" is the first translation ever available for divination. I just wonder how can you use Derek Walters's book for this
so far.
A true mystery, my friend! :rofl:
Who knows... From here, perhaps? Page 43 onwards.



Do you even have Walters' translation? Can't be making wild, big claims, such as "first translation," in a place where you have people that can call them off with ease if they think they are wrong or misleading.
 

stonebridge

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Don't Cast Fast and You'll Never Loose with Your Prognosis

I thank you for your fast prognosis, which could be more precise if you by chance use my version, not someone else. What you have used is not my translation of the Triad, sir. So, relax; put your pennies aside, take your time and, following the instructions produce a serious forecasting with the yarrow stalks, putting on the pot a serious question. As an Old School guy you'd better play the game and get the key, which, thanks to Fan Wang's practical tips, has been "stolen" (if you insist on the word) from Yang Xiong for your good progress in your divination.
 

stonebridge

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I thank you for your large scale picture. Quite impressive. Alright for you if you can cope with all these directions. Regrettably, this is not Yang Xiong's original I'd dare recommend you for consulting if the translator doesn't care for the proper number of stalks used for forecasting :confused:
 

stonebridge

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Who knows... From here, perhaps? Page 43 onwards.



Do you even have Walters' translation? Can't be making wild, big claims, such as "first translation," in a place where you have people that can call them off with ease if they think they are wrong or misleading.
I thank you for your large scale picture. Quite impressive. Alright for you if you can cope with all these directions. Regrettably, this is not Yang Xiong's original I'd dare recommend you for consulting if the translator doesn't know the proper number of stalks used for forecasting :rolleyes:

P.S. don't you feel your Cerulean Dradon annoys people with vomiting its fire back and forth? :cool:
 

stonebridge

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Seeing Is Not Always Believing!!

Who knows... From here, perhaps? Page 43 onwards.



Do you even have Walters' translation? Can't be making wild, big claims, such as "first translation," in a place where you have people that can call them off with ease if they think they are wrong or misleading.
I thank you for your large scale picture. Quite impressive. Alright for you if you can cope with all these directions. Regrettably, this is not Yang Xiong's original I'd dare recommend you for consulting if the translator doesn't know the proper number of stalks used for forecasting :rolleyes:

P.S. don't you feel your Cerulean Dradon annoys people with vomiting its fire back and forth? :cool:
 

sergio

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Dear Alex;
I certainly used the T'ai Hsuan Ching many times for divination with the yarrow stalks methods outlined in Mr. Walter's translation( please see Luis' wonderful picture if you don;t have the book) since 1989 when I acquired the book, aided with the heavily annotated Nylan's version .If yours is more conductive to be used for divination purposes just say so but don't sell it as the first translation ever oriented to that purpose. That is just a bogus claim that, as Luis pointed out, could easily be disputed by anyone mildly interested in the subject. And if that first statement is easily proven wrong then the rest ( the book, the translation) easily comes into question, making anyone start looking at it with a suspicious eye that unfortunately seems to be corroborated by Poccosin's comparison of both yours and Nyland's texts. I wonder what Mr. Nyland would say about your book. For the time been since you desperately want to be the first at something I'll consider yours the first translation of the T'ai Hsuan Ching that was more easily proven false ever in the history of Clarity's forum.
Sergio ( Mr.)
 
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stonebridge

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Seeing Is Not Always Believing!!

Who knows... From here, perhaps? Page 43 onwards.



Do you even have Walters' translation? Can't be making wild, big claims, such as "first translation," in a place where you have people that can call them off with ease if they think they are wrong or misleading.
I thank you for your large scale picture. Quite impressive. Alright for you if you can cope with all these directions. Regrettably, this is not Yang Xiong's original I'd dare recommend you for consulting if the translator doesn't know the proper number of stalks used for forecasting :rolleyes:

P.S. Don't you feel you Cerulean Dragon annoys people with its fire vomiting where it hovers back and forth? :cool:
 

pocossin

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Don't Cast Fast and You'll Never Loose with Your Prognosis
That's true, Alex, only if you cast so slowly that the event in question has occurred before casting is completed :) In my opinion it isn't the casting that should be slow but the interpreting. One should dwell on text and situation until insight occurs. The tai xuan will never have a large following until it is as accessible and usable as the Yi -- text on the net and in English, an automatic casting program, and an archive of worked examples. Then it will draw, and people will see its brilliance and wisdom.
 

sparhawk

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I'm sorry, whoever you are, but there's no way you can win this argument and sustain your claim. If you indeed translated the Chinese text of the Tai Xuan Jing, kudos to you, it is a great effort and achievement. Just don't present it like something unique, totally new and unprecedented. Because it is not.

P.S. Don't you feel you Cerulean Dragon annoys people with its fire vomiting where it hovers back and forth? :cool:
Not at all, specially when the poor little thing, tirelessly and under appreciated, flies back and forth, keeping faithful vigilance of the place and calls me when he spots something worth "crisping up"... Mind you, you are not the first nor the last one to take issue with the green one. :D
 

stonebridge

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Do You Have My Ebook in Your Possession? If Not, What the. . . Are You Talking About?

Dear Alex;
I certainly used the T'ai Hsuan Ching many times for divination with the yarrow stalks methods outlined in Mr. Walter's translation( please see Luis' wonderful picture if you don;t have the book) since 1989 when I acquired the book, aided with the heavily annotated Nylan's version .If yours is more conductive to be used for divination purposes just say so but don't sell it as the first translation ever oriented to that purpose. That is just a bogus claim that, as Luis pointed out, could easily be disputed by anyone mildly interested in the subject. And if that first statement is easily proven wrong then the rest ( the book, the translation) easily comes into question, making anyone start looking at it with a suspicious eye that unfortunately seems to be corroborated by Poccosin's comparison of both yours and Nyland's texts. I wonder what Mr. Nyland would say about your book. For the time been since you desperately want to be the first at something I'll consider yours the first translation of the T'ai Hsuan Ching that was more easily proven false ever in the history of Clarity's forum.
Sergio ( Mr.)
Feel free and brush thru my ebook free sample before taking your consideration. I'd appreciate your effort.
 

stonebridge

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When Cast Cast, Don't Talk and You'll See the Unique Yourself

I'm sorry, whoever you are, but there's no way you can win this argument and sustain your claim. If you indeed translated the Chinese text of the Tai Xuan Jing, kudos to you, it is a great effort and achievement. Just don't present it like something unique, totally new and unprecedented. Because it is not.



Not at all, specially when the poor little thing, tirelessly and under appreciated, flies back and forth, keeping faithful vigilance of the place and calls me when he spots something worth "crisping up"... Mind you, you are not the first nor the last one to take issue with the green one. :D
Do you have my ebook in your possession, sir? If not, what are we talking about? And thanks for drawing such a deep conclusion. You guide your mind too :duh:
 

stonebridge

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To See the Brilliance You Have to Be Brilliant, To Grasp the Wisdom You've to be Stup

That's true, Alex, only if you cast so slowly that the event in question has occurred before casting is completed :) In my opinion it isn't the casting that should be slow but the interpreting. One should dwell on text and situation until insight occurs. The tai xuan will never have a large following until it is as accessible and usable as the Yi -- text on the net and in English, an automatic casting program, and an archive of worked examples. Then it will draw, and people will see its brilliance and wisdom.
Exactly! Interpretion of the events in their incipience. That's the whole point of our striving. From now on, upon the proper word's pronunciation, it is good to talk to you about the Book of Odes (excuse me for the trite quotation). Whoever and whatever as oracle are good for Yi if we are quite useful with it; otherwise, neither an archive nor automatic casting program could be helpful. I understand you are the only one who has purchased a copy of my ebook so far in the clarity's pool. Survey it diligently to grasp the key of interpreting you just speak about, which is on the surface and never was a mystery. Anyway, being popular or not, but the Triad plays its good part in the Yi's orchestra for our further cultivation. A trite expression but right ;)
 

sparhawk

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You do realize that the whole text of your book is available in HTML, right? I doubt Tom/Pocossin bought the book but is quoting from what's available online. I could be wrong, of course. In any case, I still sustain your claim of "first/unique" is misleading.

Now, let's tackle a small portion of your "translation" side-by-side with the Chinese text of the 太玄經:

09.爻守

首:陽氣強內而弱外,物鹹扶而進乎大。

Substance - qi of vivid Yang grows strong inside
But still appears weak outside;
All things zealously hold on to their head
In readiness to advance under Yang's leadership.
A great good fortune will be found
By the temperate subject of this tetragram.

[Nylan's: HEAD: Yang qi is strong within, but weak without. All things, branching out, advance to greatness.]

初一:自我匍匐,好是冥德。

Postulate 1 (Water)
Everymen with their burden of ambitions
Start to creep on their bellies before the ruler (5),
Trying to show their gladness in following him.

[Nylan's: Appraisal 1: From the time I crawled, / I have loved this hidden virtue.]

測曰:匍匐冥德,若無行也。

Solution:
Creeping on bellies, everymen show their aspiring
To follow their virtuous ruler everywhere;–
It doesn't become them to behave like that,
As they should advance like men,
Walking on their two feet, not like toads.

[Nylan's: Fathoming: Crawling toward hidden virtue / Means: It is as though I had not walked.

This looks a lot like a personal interpretation of the meaning of the tetragrams and lines than a translation of the Chinese text.
 

pocossin

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You do realize that the whole text of your book is available in HTML, right? I doubt Tom/Pocossin bought the book but is quoting from what's available online.
I didn't buy the book. 20% of the book -- 190 of 948 pages -- is available for free, but this is very generous. It may be that if one joins Smashwords and pays a fee, then HTML access will be given to the whole book.
 

stonebridge

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A Homework Which Is Done Well But in Vain

You do realize that the whole text of your book is available in HTML, right? I doubt Tom/Pocossin bought the book but is quoting from what's available online. I could be wrong, of course. In any case, I still sustain your claim of "first/unique" is misleading.

Now, let's tackle a small portion of your "translation" side-by-side with the Chinese text of the 太玄經:

09.爻守

首:陽氣強內而弱外,物鹹扶而進乎大。

Substance - qi of vivid Yang grows strong inside
But still appears weak outside;
All things zealously hold on to their head
In readiness to advance under Yang's leadership.
A great good fortune will be found
By the temperate subject of this tetragram.

[Nylan's: HEAD: Yang qi is strong within, but weak without. All things, branching out, advance to greatness.]

初一:自我匍匐,好是冥德。

Postulate 1 (Water)
Everymen with their burden of ambitions
Start to creep on their bellies before the ruler (5),
Trying to show their gladness in following him.

[Nylan's: Appraisal 1: From the time I crawled, / I have loved this hidden virtue.]

測曰:匍匐冥德,若無行也。

Solution:
Creeping on bellies, everymen show their aspiring
To follow their virtuous ruler everywhere;–
It doesn't become them to behave like that,
As they should advance like men,
Walking on their two feet, not like toads.

[Nylan's: Fathoming: Crawling toward hidden virtue / Means: It is as though I had not walked.

This looks a lot like a personal interpretation of the meaning of the tetragrams and lines than a translation of the Chinese text.

Hey, Green-bluish Wales-type Fire-spitting Dragon, wake up! You have blindly flied as far as the foreign region with the foreign culture, foreign scripts and foreign attitude of conceptualization. Your Old School period has vainly passed by you. Sorry. :bag:
 

stonebridge

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It May Be. . . May Be Not

I didn't buy the book. 20% of the book -- 190 of 948 pages -- is available for free, but this is very generous. It may be that if one joins Smashwords and pays a fee, then HTML access will be given to the whole book.
Dear Sir,
You waist your time wavering between purchasing and not to. . . Pls try your best not to disappoint me this time and I'll try to forget yours hasty "dishonest." Honestly. Your kind donation will be highly appreciated; what's more, it may be even slightly clean your karma. :bows:
Cheers
 

sparhawk

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Hey, Green-bluish Wales-type Fire-spitting Dragon, wake up! You have blindly flied as far as the foreign region with the foreign culture, foreign scripts and foreign attitude of conceptualization. Your Old School period has vainly passed by you. Sorry. :bag:
The dragon is my pet. I have a name, which appears at the bottom, with the Green One, and is Luis Andrade. If you are going to resort to name calling, I can play but I think is a waste of time and energy. I provided you with the actual, received Chinese text of the 太玄經 for you to clarify your position with the text and/or defend your translation. That's how things are reviewed and discussed in a serious manner. But never mind, you've made your position very clear and I'm not interested whatsoever in how you are pursuing your studies. You say that I "have blindly flied as far as the foreign region with the foreign culture, foreign scripts and foreign attitude of conceptualization" and I ask: what the frack are we talking about here if not a text that's two thousand years old, totally based in concepts that precede it by some, perhaps, another five hundred years, and written in Chinese?
 

stonebridge

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Luis, my friend--
No doubt, I do excuse your French, because you're ten thousand percent right. Full stop. Amen.
Truly yours,
Alex

By the way, do you exercise your reading loudly any Chan verses composed by some clumsy guys like Han Shan or Shi De or Feng Gan? If so, I have a beautiful collection for you. Just let me know your thoughts.
 
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pocossin

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it seems you trick me again. . . . :mischief:
Let's stop tricking each other, Alex, and try to be truthful with each other. I do not have a credit card and am in no position to buy your book. Now, your turn to come clean. You describe your work as "deep translation". Does this mean translation modified by frequent flights of fancy?
 

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