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Tai Xuan Jing - new translation

pocossin

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the flower hexagram

In the Elemental Changes, tetragram 61 is mistakenly correlated to hexagram 45. It belongs with hexagram 22, The Flower.

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/learn/gua/hexagrams/hexagram22.php

http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/hex_17-32/hex_e_22.htm

61.3
Sticking out yellow tongues
And grasping golden brushes
Help to show the men of wisdom.

'Yellow tongues and golden brushes' refers to stamens bearing yellow pollen. Stamens and pistil in the flower are like tongues in a mouth, and tongues are the instruments of speech. The idea of speech occurs throughout the texts.

61.8
The cicada cries yung yung,
As blood spurts from its mouth.

The cicada, I think, has no mouth. It has a proboscis. Next time I find one, I'll check. Anyway, the position is inauspicious (an even position in an odd tetragram). I think the cicada's loss of blood is a loss of life. It's noise betrays it. Cicada are used as food in northern China.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cicada

Cicada, I think, occurs in position 8 because the idea of talk/noise is already established and because position 8 = wood, that is, trigram Xun, and Xun is associated with flying things. Noisy flying things = cicada. Wikipedia says that their noise is so loud that they can damage hearing if held close to the ear.

The Head is challenging to explain.

Nylan:
61. Embellishment #22
HEAD: Yin is white while yang is black. Separately they perform their respective tasks. Whether going out or entering in, they are most embellished.

Robert:
61. Shi / Adorning
首:陰白陽黑,分行厥職,出入有飾。
Head:
Yin is white, while yang is black, and their duty is to move in different directions, so that in exiting and entering they are adorned.

My conjecture is that yang qi has moved from the external development of the plant to the ovules under the flower. That is, yang qi is now in the darkness of the ovary. Yin qi is now outside in the light, thus white, and the plant is showing signs of aging as it runs to seed. And among humans, we tend to dress up when we go out.

I'd very much like to know when errors in hexagram correlation occurred and whether modern Chinese texts have corrected them. Has anyone examined this question?
 

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Hola Pocossin;
Acting on your wholehearted defence of Nylan's text I decided to acquire one which I received on September 18. When I got home I picked the book and opened it for the first time at random on tetragram #61 which incidentally happens to correspond to the time period between September 18 to 22.
Then last Monday I checked Goldstein version of the same tetragram and noted the discrepancy in the correlation with the I CHING hexagram which he noted as #22. And to finish it off, today I opened your message in the forum and you just happen to comment about this very same discrepancy...
Just a bunch of coincidences worthy of sharing with you and the group...
Of course I have been reading the book and found something very interesting. Yang Hsiung is reputedly composing his T'ai Hsuang Ching as an image of the I Ching, complete with ten commentaries. In the instructions on how to use the yarrow stalks, after the operations are performed, the number to identify the type of line is obtained by counting the groups of three of the remaining stalks. This seems to be in accordance with the revised yarrow stalk method explained in a paper Luis posted some time ago and sounds to me as a confirmation of the authenticy of that method. It also suggests there could be more things to extract from the T'ai Hsuang Ching that could be applied to the I Ching.
Thanks for the recommendation.
Sergio
 
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pocossin

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Hola Sergio;

I was moved to post on 61 because of Charly's flower pictures. Since you are studying the tai xuan, I'll work up an errata for Nylan and post it here in a few days. The tai xuan is a rational reconstruction of the yi. Everything is systematic and well organized. Yang Xiong used the hexagram calendar (the one in Blofeld, also used by Meng Xi) to relate tetragram and hexagram, so hexagram errors in Nylan are easy to correct. Also, errors were made in printing tetragrams, perhaps by the typesetter. One oddity in the tai xuan is tetragram 41. In developing it, Yang Xiong used ideas from both hexagrams 30 and 31 whereas other tetragrams use ideas from just one hexagram, although some hexagrams are used twice.

Two helpful formulas:

Element assignment for tetragram and texts are based on the Ho Tu (Wilhelm, p.309).

1. water
2. fire
3. wood
4. metal
5. earth
6. water
7. fire
8. wood
9. metal

Each group of nine tetragrams follows this pattern, so that by dividing the tetragram number by 9 and considering the remainder, we know the element assigned to the tetragram. For example, 78 divided by 9 leaves a remainder of of 6, and 6 according to the Ho Tu is water, so the element of tetragram 78 is water. If the number is an even multiple of 9, then the remainder is 0, and the element is metal.

Good and bad fortune change with each text (Appraisal or Postulate). A text represents a 12 hour period, from midnight to noon or from noon to midnight. The first is auspicious, the second inauspicious -- as I remember. But when we are considering a particular tetragram, these 12 hour periods aren't marked. The formula is simple. In odd numbered tetragrams, odd numbered texts are auspicious. In even numbered hexagrams, even numbered texts are auspicious. For example, 11.7 is auspicious:

As with a pile of eggs,
He acts with great caution.
From fear comes propriety, then safety.

whereas 79.4 is inauspicious:

When the egg breaks against a stone,
The undeveloped dies.

I am currently focusing on plant imagery, which I think explains many of the enigmas in the tai xuan, although it will be quite some time before I complete a study.
 

stonebridge

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It seems, you people just start to find an approach to "the nine cats with nine lives each" mentioned earlier; some good progress. At the end of the day I'll watch the birds flying. . . . Pls go ahead and purchase my ebook entitled "Decoding of the 'Lao-zi'(Dao-De Jing): Numerological Resonance of the Canon's Structure" sited at:

http://www.smashwords.com/books/view/100736

to grasp the whole operation. Meanwhile, I remain,

Truly yours,

Alex Goldstein
 
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pocossin

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basic errata for the Elemental Changes

incorrectly drawn hexagrams

05. 0011
10. 0100
13. 0110
28. 1000
33. 1012
34. 1020
52. 1220
61. 2020
66. 2102

Except for a correction to 66, I took this list from the webpage:

http://taixuanjing.0catch.com/taixuanjing_00000a.htm
Errata to Nylan's Text

which also gives other errata.

tetragram -- hexagram

41. 31/30
53. 13
61. 22
62. 22

By Yang's system of correlating tetragrams to hexagrams, tetragram 41 belongs with hexagram 31, but there are also ideas in tetragram 41 from hexagram 30. Yang Xiong may have meant this irregularity to represent the division of the yi into two parts.
 

sergio

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Hola Pocossin;
Thank you for your two posts. I printed the tetragrams table from Walter's book, cut the the correct ones and paste them on top of the wrong ones. They look beautiful! Now I have to find a way of correcting the hexagrams affiliations too.Let's see how cut and paste works this time...
I am also (and still..)reading the introduction to the T'ai Hsuang Ching and it is extremely interesting . Yang Hsiung's concept of fate and time are very deep.His idea of writing a text paralleling the I Ching and somehow "perfecting" or better adding all these elements that were foreign to the I Ching ( five phases, calendar affiliations) was a massive task worthy of a genius. And all this without loosing respect for the I Ching , it is really a worthy companion to it. It makes me really look at the I Ching with different eyes.
Thanks again for the recommendation and keep the comments coming.
Sergio
 

pocossin

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And all this without loosing respect for the I Ching , it is really a worthy companion to it.
Well said, Sergio. They are like two friends who mirror each other. I have learned more about the yi by studying the tai xuan than from any other book.
 

sergio

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Hola Pocossin;
On a sidebar there is a translation of the Tao Te Ching by R.L.Wing. She uses the Tai Hsuan Ching as a way of pairing its 81 tetragrams with the Tao Te Ching's 81 verses. In that way you can use the yarrows stalks to cast a tetragram that would yield a verse to read. What I found interesting was that she supplies a dice method to cast the tetragram as follows: 1-2 represent a solid line; 3-4 a broken line and 5-6 a twice broken line.
Sergio
 

pocossin

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Thanks, Sergio. I had a vague feeling about the die method and went searching. I posted this to the Taixuanching Yahoo group Dec 17, 2001:

Mo's Research

Rick Lavelle, a friend of the late Lawrence (Larry) Moore (Lare, but
known to most of us as Mo Lei-Li), has kindly made available a CD
containing files from Mo's Hard Drive.

For anyone who has this CD, under Photos from Hard Drive\PaperPort
Scans\September 13, 2000 there are four scans from a book about how
to consult the Tao Te Ching using tetragrams. The title of the book
may be "The Tao of Power," which is mentioned with a bigram table.

Here is page 16:

" The Right Mind Approach

Many of the philosophical classics of China are written in a style for
which there is no counterpart in Western literature. The majority of
Western philosophy seems to emerge from the analytic left hemisphere
of the brain,
wherein a hypothesis is logically developed through a number of
chapters until a conclusions is reached at the end of the book.
Chinese classics, by contrast, seem to emerge from the spatially
oriented right hemisphere of the brain. These works are, in a sense,
holographic: each chapter is complete and each reflects the entire
book. The only difference between chapters is a very slight shift in
the angle of the view of the central premise. Thus, when exploring a
classic like the Tao Te Ching, it may be appropriate to match its
nonlinear style by reading the book at random.

When Eastern scholars explore a philosophal classic, they look
for a subjective experience that might stimulate their intuitive
understanding of the work. Perhaps they will open the book at random
in order to select the next passage to contemplate. Using chance and
synchronicity in their approach they can then contemplate, too, why
that particular passage appeared in their lives at that particular
mement.

In nature, a snowflake is a snowflake -- until we take a closer
look and see that no two snowflakes are formed in the same way. So
too, in human nature, no two individuals are informed in the same
way. Those who would like to allow nature to determine their
intellectual path through the Tao Te Ching may find that a random
approach to the text will help trigger the spirit of the moment and
open their mind to self-discovery. Readers who are familiar with
Chinese philosophy will recognize the approach that follows, since
similar forms of subjective interaction are used in such classics as
the T'ai Hsuan Ching, a philopsohical work from the early history of
China (c.1 B.C.), and the I Ching.

In the I Ching, each of the sixty-four passages is represented
by a hexagram, a mathematical diagram constructed from six stacked
lines of two types (solid and broken). There are sixty-four possible
arrangements of these two types of lines (2^6). Through the use of
the hexagrams, the Chinese developed the binary numbering system
nearly three millennia before it re3ached the rest of the world.
Their binary system was based on the square of 8, thus sixty-four
became an important number in Chinese philosophy.

It is no accident that the Tao Te Ching has eighty-one chapters,
for eighty one, the square of 9, is also a significant number to
those Chinese philosophers who treasured the symmetry of numbers. The
elegance of the number eighty-one was expressed by the ancient
Chinese with the use of mathematical diagrams known as tetragrams. A
tetragram is constructed from four stacked lines of three types
(solid, broken, and twice-broken). There are eighty-one possible
arrangements of these three types of lines (3^4). The tetragrams,
which were once used to randomly explore th T'ai Hsuan, are combined
here with the eighty-one passages of the Tao Te Ching. They appear in
the Tetragram Arrangement on the next page.

There are two ways to use the tetragrams to select one of the
passages in the Tao Te Ching. The first method is quick and requires
the use of a six-sided object -- dice were invented by the Chinese
for purposes such as this. The other"

Summary from page 18 on how to construct a tetragram:

To construct a tetragram using a die:

1,2 = solid
3,4 = broken
5,6 = twice-broken

To construct a tetragram using the 64 sticks method:

1. Separate the sticks at random into three bundles in front of you.

2. Pick up the bundle on the far right and count it out by threes.
There will be either 0, 1, or 2 sticks remaining. Put the remainder
to one side. If the remainder is 0, take one stick from the bundle
you just counted and put that aside instead.

3. Repeat step 2 for the middle bundle, then add the remainder to the
remainder from the first bundle.

4. Repeat step 2 for the final bundle and add the remainder to the
remainder of the first two bundles.

5. Total the remainder of sticks in the remainder pile. There will be
3, 4, or 5.

3 = solid
4 = broken
5 = twice-broken

6. Gather all the sticks and repeat the process three more times.

(N.B. In this system, the tetragram is constructed from the bottom
up.)

The number of the tetragram is the chapter of the Tao Te Ching to
consult.
 

sergio

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Hola Tom;
Yes, that's the book. I bought all three of Wing's books (I Ching, Tao Te Ching-Tao of power and the Art of war)some time ago. I do like her fusion of the TTC/THC.I would not use it as divination per se , just a neat way to randomly pick a chapter to read although one may actually cast the THC and at the same time read the TTC chapter and the IC hexagrams or the other way around:cast the IC and read its corresponding THC and then go to its corresponding TTC..
Sergio
 

sergio

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Dear Group;
A few weeks ago I bought Alex Goldstein's translation of the Canon of Grand Triad(Tai Xsuan Jing. Smashwords. 2012). A discussion ensued in this forum questioning the validity of its authorship so I decided to give Mr. Goldstein the benefit of the doubt. Plus it would be totally inadequate to keep criticizing a book without having actually read it. Here are some of my comments and concerns after reading it.
1. Mr, Goldstein used to claim that his was “the first translation of Tai Xuan Jing, or the Canon of Grand Triad (hereinafter is referred to as “Triad”) into English made as a guidebook for divination rather than a philosophical treatise.” That blurb was fortunately corrected although still insists on maintaining its divinatory aim. Been that the case I think it would have been in order for him to provide a table to search for the tetragram one casts or a table showing all of them at least, otherwise one is doomed to search through all the pages . The e-book does show at the top of each tetragram’s text some gorgeous illustrations. Unfortunately they are too small to really enjoy in detail.
2. Mr, Goldstein is fond of making bold statements such as stating that the Lian Shan was composed of tetragrams and was cast with 36 yarrow stalks, that the Gui Can was made of pentagrams and was cast with 45 sticks and the Zhou Yi (which he insists in calling the book of circular change) with 55 sticks based on numerological reasons. Mr. Goldstein does not provide proper sources for those assertions so that anyone interested could check and corroborate it. He leaves us no choice but to either take them at face value or consider them fabrications of his own.
3. Since we must use words to communicate and the language of choice is English I must then say that, when he writes, his style is certainly very poor, confusing and structurally weak with basic usage mistakes making the reading experience very difficult at times. This could have been overlooked had the quality of the material outweighed it.
4. As for the claims about his translation been a copy of Nylan's I always thought that two people translating the same material were bound to write obviously the same version or something very close to the same. However what really got me worried were his “Author’s note” and “Introduction”. This is where the author can expound his personal views about the book, the aims of the translation, explain key concepts and contextualize the work in question. Let me begin by saying that I first read Nylan's excellent introduction (The canon of supreme Mystery by Yang Hsiung. Translated by Micahel Nylan. SUNY press 1993) and then Mr.Goldstein's and was shocked to see how much he blatantly lifted from it. The plundering of material goes from just a single sentence (Goldstein p.27\Nylan p.49) to complete sections (Goldstein p.44 Zhen as cultivated integrity\Nylan p.71-72 the meaning of chen)
One does not need to look too far into the introduction to find the first signals that something is wrong. The show, for lack of a better word, starts right from the get go in ‘The author’s note” ( of all places…) Goldstein page 4 \Nylan’s preface( “It is a divination manual that suggests a complex interaction between time and virtue in unfolding human destiny. It is also one great philosophic poems of world literature , assessing the rival claims on human attention of fame, power and physical immortality, while situating human endeavour within the larger frame of cosmic energies.”) to its following section about the book’s style and translation (i.e.Goldstein p.5\Nylan p.73) where four different sections lifted from Nylan’s match word by word or with slight modifications or interspaced with Goldstein’s numerological musings. Without proper quotations or credit we are left to think that everything printed in the Author's note ( hence the name) and introduction came from Mr. Godstein's when in fact the authorship in those passages in question are clearly and beyond any reasonable doubt, Nylan's.
Sergio
 

stonebridge

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Sergio, my friend
I should thank you so much for your ad regarding my book promotion. Regrettably, your group people reaction was quite slack; it seems they are uneasy to be provoked. Anyway, there is some good news for you too. I have inserted a decade of charts for your benign perusal which you were seeking for so badly. These charts should always be in your mind while casting-out. I've also enlarged the diagrams to each chapter, enjoy. I look forward to reading your new review. Meanwhile, kindly take into consideration that the book price will step up next month upon the promotion period closing.
Take a good care.
Peace,

Alex
 

pocossin

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Alex, you have put me to much labor and expense in tracking down your plagiarism of Nylan, but it's all for my own good since I should have had a copy of The Canon of Supreme Mystery -- the book you stole much of your Introduction from -- to begin with. And today I realized how to tell when you are stealing because when you steal you make inane modifications to the text to cover your tracks. I have put in bold your distortions of Nylan's text.

Nylan: "Self-cultivation" refers to the arduous process, by which the individual intent on virtue fulfills his own innate potential.

Goldstein: As the term, "self-cultivation" refers to the arduous process, by which the individual intent on virtue fulfils his own innate potential.

Nylan: Finally, the Appraisals (unlike the Line texts of the Changes) are read according to the time of day when the divination is carried out. To each time of day, three Appraisals are assigned so that the inquirer can know the short-, middle-, and long-term prospects for the situation queried. If the act of divination is carried out in the morning, Appraisals 1, 5, and 7 of the given tetragram are read and considered; if in the evening, Appraisals 3, 4, and 8; if at the median times, Appraisals 2, 6, and 9.

Goldstein: Besides, the Postulates , unlike the line texts of the "Zhou Yi," are read according to the time of day when the divination is carried out. To each time of day the three Postulates are assigned so that the diviner can know the short-, middle-[,] and long-term prospect for a query. If the act of divination is carried out in the morning, Postulates 1, 5[,] and 7 of the given tetragram are read and considered; if in the evening, Postulates 3, 4[,] and 8; if at the median times (the periods centred about noontime and midnight) Postulates 2, 6[,] and 9 are involved.

Such effort at deception is pathological.
 

sergio

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Mr. Goldstein;
I am not your friend nor do I want to be. I am just a reader of your book and as a paying customer I exercise my right to present an opinion which, by the way ,was solicited by your publisher. The diagrams were a necessity in my opinion and now that they are there they greatly contribute to clarify what you say,(or is it Nylan?) By the way the one in page 14 is wrong.
What I cannot really understand is why you still keep your smug attitude with airs of superiority and seem to be unable to keep an exchange of ideas in a civilized manner without resorting to derogatory rhetoric that quite frankly does not suit you taking in consideration that there are serious allegations in play that you still cannot and did not explain properly.
Sergio
 

cjgait

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?..Meanwhile, kindly take into consideration that the book price will step up next month upon the promotion period closing.
Take a good care.
Peace,

Alex
I'm sure the author of the book you plagiarized will want to pick up a copy at the promotional price. Perhaps their publisher's lawyer will add it to the court costs and sundry when you are paying those.

And yes, the term `smug' does really seem to fit your postings.
 

denisvog

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Alex, you have put me to much labor and expense in tracking down your plagiarism of Nylan, but it's all for my own good since I should have had a copy of The Canon of Supreme Mystery -- the book you stole much of your Introduction from -- to begin with. And today I realized how to tell when you are stealing because when you steal you make inane modifications to the text to cover your tracks. I have put in bold your distortions of Nylan's text.

Nylan: "Self-cultivation" refers to the arduous process, by which the individual intent on virtue fulfills his own innate potential.

Goldstein: As the term, "self-cultivation" refers to the arduous process, by which the individual intent on virtue fulfils his own innate potential.

Nylan: Finally, the Appraisals (unlike the Line texts of the Changes) are read according to the time of day when the divination is carried out. To each time of day, three Appraisals are assigned so that the inquirer can know the short-, middle-, and long-term prospects for the situation queried. If the act of divination is carried out in the morning, Appraisals 1, 5, and 7 of the given tetragram are read and considered; if in the evening, Appraisals 3, 4, and 8; if at the median times, Appraisals 2, 6, and 9.

Goldstein: Besides, the Postulates , unlike the line texts of the "Zhou Yi," are read according to the time of day when the divination is carried out. To each time of day the three Postulates are assigned so that the diviner can know the short-, middle-[,] and long-term prospect for a query. If the act of divination is carried out in the morning, Postulates 1, 5[,] and 7 of the given tetragram are read and considered; if in the evening, Postulates 3, 4[,] and 8; if at the median times (the periods centred about noontime and midnight) Postulates 2, 6[,] and 9 are involved.

Such effort at deception is pathological.


Dear sir
I would like to know what book is the right book of TAI XUAN JING ?
Long ago i bought the TAI HSUANG JING of Derek Walters and by using it i found very good.
Now i want to buy the TAI XUAN JING of Michael Nylan but i saw many errata on tetragram picture so i want your opinion and sugestions
Iwait your reply
best regards
DENISVOG
 

pocossin

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Get Michaei Nylan's The Canon of Supreme Mystery. It is the real thing.
 

denisvog

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dear Sir
thank you for your answer... i believe that this is a marvelous book ever... written form Chinese philosophers in the past ... and errata is of not substance !!! ...are you agree ?
i wait your reply
DENISVOG
 

pocossin

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dear Sir
thank you for your answer... i believe that this is a marvelous book ever... written form Chinese philosophers in the past ... and errata is of not substance !!! ...are you agree ?
i wait your reply
DENISVOG
Yes, the errata are trivial and easily corrected.
 

denisvog

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Yes, the errata are trivial and easily corrected.
Dear Sir
I would like to introduce myself and tell that I am a man who very early of my life dealt with the Chinese divinatory arts (YI JING - TAI XUAN JING - LING CH"I JING) for self cultivation.

i want to share with you some ideas that applied in the past and would like your opinion.

If one constructs a divinatory method that could represent all three divinatory arts (YI JING - TAI XUAN JING - LING CH"I JING) at the same time what effect could arisen ???
I suppose if the result is positive then one can combine the answers of questions from all these three sources at the same time !!!

DENISVOG
 

pocossin

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In a way the Yi Jing, Tai Xuan Jing, and the Ling Qi Jing are already together because the Yi Jing is the parent of the other two. I invite you to practice your divinatory skills by replying to querents in Shared Readings.
 

oldstudent

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In this life experience ,Im finding my own way to Divination. Nylan's works are a serious must have just as the books of change are, at least for those of us who dont read archaic chinese texts. Over the years I rediscovered simple ways to access both texts at the same time.The many charts and tables I wrote down are a large part of that experience.What these systems are based on and the levels of mind they touch is incredible.Im extremely excited over this subject and happy to be a new member of this community.
 

oldstudent

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To bridge these systems as one certainly tests the Diviner's ability to connect and reconnect the text.I know that the combinations run into many millions for YI JING , TAI XUAN JING and TAO.The access work Ive done is mainly aimed at TAI XUAN JING.The Bridged methods are optional.I have no experience with LING CH"I JING.I discovered that there is so much more behind the Divinitary symbols, numbers and explanations of the logic 'SEPERATE' from the translations of the texts.I am not a scholar,Im a thinker who loves the mysteries and needed a mystical logical way to access this information on my own terms.Some learned say these profound texts are nothing more than fortune telling books with strange old very old advice.I feel for a fact thru my own discovery,these systems are much much more and that the mind that put this work into the mind of man is divine.
 

pocossin

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oldstudent

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All of these translations of 'Supreme Mystery' are important and necessary.Translating archaic period chinese takes education,serious education and with that thought I have a deep respect for these advanced student professors who pass on this information to the less educated.Because of their exhausting work we have the opportunity to formulate a variety of systems based on the translated text.Is Professor Nylan accomplished in the arts of Divination ?Maybe,but the primary objective of the author is translation of the archaic eastern thoughts as they were formulated and recorded during that time period.In this time period we also have archaic ideas re-discovered.I would hesitate to take a few pages of Professor Nylan's translated discription of the divinitary logic and base my own methods and logic exclusively on it.Maybe that portion of the text is incomplete as professor Nylan describes it, maybe the original archaic author was having a temporary weak connection with the Divine. We can use the translated text for what it was intended for and develope additional methods to access it.Is anyone who authors a new versioned book of change based on 64 hexagrams handed down thru the centuries a pirate ? maybe,If they took credit for the original text.Professor Nylan didnt take credit for the original text,Professor Nylan took credit for the translation of that text.Anyone who developes a system for Divination or access based on Professor Nylan's translation of the original archaic chinese text is the author of that system ,Not professor Nylan.
 
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The "Mystery" (Xuan, 玄) already includes the "Changes" (Yi, 易), and do not use changing lines, while 4096 combinations of the "Changes" are already covered in the "Forest" (Lin, 林).
 

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Just a simple quote having nothing to do with the post.Ways to access the book of change coupled with the Book of Supreme Mystery.Study without reflection is a waste of time ,CONFUCIUS.The complexity of a diviners methods are as complex as the reflection.Quote without reflection is a danger to self.
 

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