Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
I knew a girl like that once. Beautiful.
The first Dali morph was really clever.
Regarding the word Gou, there's a character Gou that refers to
"dog" that is the title of this hexagram in the Mawangdui ms.
But it refers to a bitch, and the word has the same derogatory
meaning here as it does in the west. The woman here
is to be avoided as an untimely distraction. But there are
plenty of other places in the Yi where the woman is to be
embraced, empowered or celebrated.
Carin:...There are so many different women passing your eye within three minutes. All being who they are, captured in their time. Each with her own soul. ...
Brad:
I go to re-read your rendering for H.44, I don't get why MWD should refer to a bitch.
I actualy thinks that the women denigratory sense comes from ulterior moralistic readings, not from the text itself.
Charly
I believe it's like in astrology where 'good' and 'bad' (or 'benefic' and 'malefic') are words that hardly any astrologer will use nowadays. But some configurations are still considered to be 'easier' than others.
In the I Ching, hexagram 40 is not 'good' and hexagram 3 is not 'bad'. But I find hex 40 the easier of the two.
It's also personal, I think. A hexagram might be easy for me and less easy for you or the other way around. It depends on type, history, on what you are good at or not so good, and so on. Hexagram 3 situations require a lot of patience, in my experience, and I'm not all that good at being patient.
He wanted to clear the decks, put his old life behind him, and start over. He got Hexagram 23, I told him what it meant, and he just nodded and shrugged, and looked at me like "Of course". He's actually looking forward to losing that last bit.
Cesca
I think the image of the Zhuang Nu, the strong woman, is so captivating in itself that we nearly always forget that this is only an analogy or a metaphor, not a prediction. Even for the subset of horny young men and hot young lesbians, the Yi is only going to be referring to an actual hot young woman only a tiny percentage of the time. It might just as often refer to a financial investment or automotive repair or a smelly old man.
I think it's important to first grasp what the symbolism is about. Why would they pick an aggressive young woman? Perhaps because she is the most powerful force known to man when it comes to distracting him from his higher purposes and interfering with his grand schemes and plans. She stands in here for a form of entropy, the dissolution of order. That's why in the Da Xiang the sovereign has to be redundant with his commands (say again? we're breaking up).
吿子曰:「食、色,性也。仁,內也,非外也,義,外也,非內也。」
[6A:4] Kao Tzu said: "By nature we desire food and sex. Humaneness is internal and not external, Rightness is external and not internal."
MengZi, translated by Muller
http://www.hm.tyg.jp/~acmuller/contao/mencius.html#div-6A
El auto es el objeto más deseado por el hombre argentino, después del fútbol y las mujeres
Así lo demuestra un estudio realizado por Rexona V8, que confirma la extraordinaria relación existente entre el hombre argentino y el auto. Los hombres le destinan una gran cantidad de cuidados, y hasta incluso cariño... [el estudio] se realizó a nivel nacional en abril del 2007 por la consultora TNS Gallup para Rexona.
...los empresarios en general están contentos con los resultados de las elecciones metropolitanas... algunos de sus jugadores forman parte del núcleo duro de amigos de Mauricio Macri...
In the case of 44, I see the overall theme as recommending restraint, self-discipline or control, starting with putting on the brakes in line 1, even though in lines 4 and 6 this has perhaps been taken too far and a little lightening up is in order. So when I look at line 5, I need to ask why covering melons in willow leaves is an expression of restraint. That made it obvious to me that the melons were being kept in shady storage until they were perfectly ripened, until they became a gift from Heaven, which to the Chinese was intricately bound up with proper timing, Heaven being the cosmic clockworks and all. The restraint is in not cracking them open too soon and having an inferior experience due to ones haste.
Long ago I made it a first principle in my Yixue to simultaneously:
a) Subordinate the Yao Ci or Line Text meaning to the overall meaning or theme of the Gua, no matter how divergent or colorful or contradictory it was, and
b) Use the divergent or colorful or contradictory line symbolism to stretch out the overall theme or meaning of the Gua until I got a comfortable fit.
Even when you draw one active line and it has a meaning that is the flipside of the main text message? How do you arrive at a comfortable fit when the main message says A, and the active line message says Z?
Men want to be seduced. And of course sometimes they choose to restrain themselves, but other times not. A man who restrains himself all the time.. There were monks who chastised themselves far away from 44, but they are no average men. Maybe not even wise men.
He attachs very much oracle bone characters. May be the last quoted meanings the more recent.取 = 耳 er3 ear + 又 you4 right hand
to take hold of the ear 耳 with the hand 又
...
to take / to receive / to fetch / to obtain / to take hold of / to select / to choose / to summon / to recall / to marry / to take a wife
http://www.chineseetymology.org/Cha...aspx?characterInput=取&submitButton1=Etymology
LiSe:
Both translation and connections make much sense in the whole hexagram context.
I have made some searchings looking for additional stuff and I find two:
1) etymology:
包 bao1 ... A person leaning over and holding or covering an object perhaps a baby
From Sears' ChineseEtymology
2) Maybe a mother like this?
Leaning over her little baby.
THE POWERFUL GIRL !!!
I always think that the GOU advice of «not marrying such a gir» was a fake advice.
I like more something as:
姤 gou4: Wow!!! (1)
女 nu3 壯 zhuang4: Girl is powerful
勿 wu4 用 yong4: don't use
取 qu3 女 nu3: to force girls (2)
Don't you agree?:bows:
Yours,
Charly
-------------------------------------
(1) like dog's barking exclamation .
(2) freely inspired from Harmen
Long ago I made it a first principle in my Yixue to simultaneously:
a) Subordinate the Yao Ci or Line Text meaning to the overall meaning or theme of the Gua, no matter how divergent or colorful or contradictory it was, and
b) Use the divergent or colorful or contradictory line symbolism to stretch out the overall theme or meaning of the Gua until I got a comfortable fit.
In the case of 44, I see the overall theme as recommending restraint, self-discipline or control, starting with putting on the brakes in line 1, even though in lines 4 and 6 this has perhaps been taken too far and a little lightening up is in order. So when I look at line 5, I need to ask why covering melons in willow leaves is an expression of restraint. That made it obvious to me that the melons were being kept in shady storage until they were perfectly ripened, until they became a gift from Heaven, which to the Chinese was intricately bound up with proper timing, Heaven being the cosmic clockworks and all. The restraint is in not cracking them open too soon and having an inferior experience due to ones haste.
I always think that the GOU advice of «not marrying such a gir» was a fake advice.
I like more something as:
姤 gou4: Wow!!! (1)
女 nu3 壯 zhuang4: Girl is powerful
勿 wu4 用 yong4: don't use
取 qu3 女 nu3: to force girls (2)
Don't you agree?:bows:
Yours,
Charly
-------------------------------------
(1) like dog's barking exclamation .
(2) freely inspired from Harmen
Hi, D-Mouse:Oh yes, we like this very, very much indeed; we think it is one of the finest translations of "姤女壯勿用取女" we have seen. ... Thank you for this, Charly.
The WOW! idea comes from the title of H.8 in Mawangdui manuscript which is 狗 gou, dog.
I believe that DOG in the MWD manuscript was indeed a pun based on the phonetic whose meaning got lost in the time. Brad said that BITCH fits well wit a derogatory intention. But I believe that it was not the earlier intention, goddesses and female forces where worshipped in communitarian cultures before extensive agriculture and state centralization. I believe that the sense was more admirative (WOW!) than pejorative.Charly I loved the "wow" suggestion! A word which very much sounds like another word would be an excellent divinatory text technique. I don't think that the original title-character for 44 was the dog one, as it would be very odd to have an exclamation as the title of a hexagram. But I do believe that puns are purposefully part of the divination 'game'.
Of course, no gender is sure in that sort of titles. HOU means RULER or QUEEN id different times and contexts. It was applied to LORD MILLET the god of agriculture but some people think that it was a goddess, a queen, LADY MILLET given that agricultural deities where female in most cultures. Of course that applied to divination the context of the questions rules the seeking of a meaning among different possibilities.I also really like your rendition of the Great Image, although in my experience "ancestress" can also be a man. 44 unchanging had come up many times related to a previous boss, who had started bullying me out of the blue, and finally made me redundant. So for me it was rather a "prince declaring the mandate to the four corners". Of course, it could also equally refer to a woman in a high position, depending on the circumstances. But for sure I've witnessed 44 refer to a dangerous man (and my exclamation was more like a "f**k!" instead of "wow" ).
Gourds have usually fertility meaning due to the quantity of seed contained but the HULU, the bottle gourd, also can have a phallic sense because of its shape in some stages of fruit evolution. In my country it is the PORONGO, which addresses to the container made of that gourds and is also a rude slang for PENIS. There is a folk wind instrument HULUSI made with a gourd and three pipes maybe depicted in the character YUE that shares connotations of music, joy, spring and peasant marriage customs.Very interestingly, and I only make the connection now, after I had been told that I was being made redundant, I received 44.5 > 50. A wrapped 'packet', a windfall - indeed I received very good redundancy money."The word for gourd is pronounced �€œhulu,�€� which is a homonym for fortune and prosperity" (visiontimes.com) - quite apt in my story
And also, on the never-ending subject of hexagram 44... here's yet another interesting take. It's from a website which briefly analysed oracle bone characters. The website sadly doesn't exist anymore, and it didn't mention who wrote it.
Hi Deflatormouse:...
I tend not to concern myself with the philosophical beliefs of the book's authors at all in divination, and for this reason have not referred much to the Daxiang in interpretation (actually, I have never even once read Daxiang in Chinese, only English). I pretty much consult the Zhouyi, and treat the rest of the Yijing as a very interesting book. Nevertheless, this is a very interesting observation about the absence of nobility in 44...
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).