There are times :-}

[ann]

... when I wonder if it would be better not to ask!

I'm about to go to a meeting about which I feel a little anxious. I asked: What do I need to do to achieve the best outcome for everyone?

God 29, change line 2 leading to hex 8

Line 2 - danger?

I take from this that I need to do more listening than talking, not try to achieve too much, etc. All of which makes perfect sense.

So I asked: What is the danger?

And got an uncompromising 35! This just made me laugh, following the confusion in the conversation above. Thought I'd share it

 

[candid]

Ann, undertaking any leadership endeavor includes a certain amount of danger. Going forward involves some danger. Making progress is mostly about fording the river, and rivers can also be dangerous. Its no reason to fret or turn back. Be encouraged and carry out your mission. That's how I read it.

 

[ann]

Hi Candid,

It was how I read it too - and the meeting went very well. Actually I went in chuckling to myself thinking of the 35. Sometimes I do wonder if the Yi is having a joke with me.

All the best

Ann

 

[frandoch]

Hi Ann,

There are times:-}

when I KNOW..........

that the 'Yi' is not answering me..........

because She is rolling on the floor, consumed with helpless laughter,

at the antics of the prat known as Michael F.

Love,

Michael F.

 

[ann]

Yup, and you feel just grateful that you didn't get a #4 don't you? I know THAT feeling very well.

Have a good weekend everyone!

 

[frandoch]

Michael F. and #4 are old friends.

You have a good weeekend, too.

Michael F.

 

[louise]

Had the same thought the other day. I was feeling low, that I couldn't get any lower - thinking that my life was a complete and utter mess, and I asked Yi "Am I as much in the ---- as I think I am". What did I receive but hex 42 line 2 and 5 moving !! "What increase" I said "where ?" I thought Yi are you taking the ----? Still who knows I may get a load of tortoise shells soon. Sometimes I just don't know whats going on here, lol.

Frandoch I am concerned that your ego is sinking a little too low. On another thread you call yourself a 'tosser' and here you call yourself a 'prat'. I must warn you however that self abasement/effacement can be a form of disguised egotism (the ego is a tricky little devil you know). No you cannot relax Frandoch, even in your self abasement I detect hints of a recalcitrant ego - besides which why slap yourself down and deny me the pleasure, lololol, laughing emoticoM.

Seroiusly though, do you think Yi really takes the ---- ? I didn't find it that funny at the time to get hex 42, when there was clearly not a spot of increase going on

 

[lenardthefast]

Hi Louise,

Perhaps the Yi was boding an 'increase' in the ----!

Namaste,
Leonard

 

[louise]

HA - I never thought of that, thats cheered me up no end Leonard, you little devil, lol. Still I'm glad you're feeling bouncy !

 

[lindsay]

If anyone besides me is having trouble with some of the colorful language used by our UK friends in this or other threads, try this link:

http://www.peevish.co.uk/slang/

 

[cal val]

Louise...

A lot of times when I ask a question requiring a yes or no answer, I get 42 or 41. But the Yi and I have come to that understanding.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

 

[candid]

Louise, I had 42 recently and asked myself the same question: Where? Then I thought, maybe Yi was just telling me I was full of it. *cymbal crash* ...but seriously, if there's not much in the way of changes for us at a given time, Ching has to say something, even if Increase meant having a nice dinner, or maybe its payday. (more on this in a bit)

During the drive home this afternoon I was thinking about something similar, like the "oh no, I'm in for it now!" type of reading. Then I pictured a detour sign. A warning to adjust my course or attitude. I think its the same whether we're talking about a very positive type of reading or one that sounds extremely negative. A positive reading has a bad outcome if we fail to heed the signs, just as negative sounding reading has a positive outcome if we do heed the signs. Everything serves to further if we heed the signs.

Take 25 for example. It sounds so positive, yet it includes the easily overlooked comment: "If someone is not as he should be, he has misfortune, and it does not further him to undertake anything."

Or, in 42: "If he has faults, he rids himself of them." The Yi could be saying something like: If you want an increase, rid yourself of faults. It doesn't say: No matter how bad your attitude is, you will be blessed with increase, or that increase is unconditional.

I?ve come to welcome 4 greatly. I tie it to 17. A chance for me to shut up for a change and listen to the Sage. Then, if I?m called to reach or teach, I?ll be ready. Otherwise, I?m on my own, which definitely wouldn?t serve well to follow, and heaven help those I'd lead!

Candid

 

[candid]

Val, Yes and no are the equivalent of increase and decrease, I agree.

Even when we have no specific question, our heart is asking for something. Knowing what we are wanting is, I believe, what Yi tells us. Once we see what we are wanting, we can edit the data in our mind, and make the adjustments, which will render the results we've chosen.

Have you ever noticed an absolutely *instant* attitude adjustment from contemplating one of Yi's answers? Its like a bop in the head! And everything seems to change just as instantly. Where did all the stressful dilemmas go? What changed? I'd say, my mind changed, and my heart followed.

I don?t know which I prefer, increase or decrease. There?s something about the emptiness of decrease that somehow feels more at home. Its like the womb. Needing nothing but life itself. Of course increase is nice because it makes living intensified. Funny though, I?ve known more couples with lots of money than couples with little who have broken up. Increase brings responsibility for all one is increased with. I think of the proverbial camel through the eye of a needle. The way is narrow, and the opportunities, broad. Its so easy to get lost in the woods without a Forester.

 

[martin]

42 reminds me of an answer that Ramana Maharshi once gave to U.G. Krisjnamurti.
UG asked: Can you give me enlightenment?
Ramana answered: Yes, I can give it to you. But can you receive it?

By the way, there must be something in that number 42, as it was also the answer that the huge computer in "A hitchhikers guide to the galaxy" gave when asked about the meaning of life ...

Martin

 

[cal val]

Hi Candid...

And have you asked a question that requires a yes or no answer and gotten 42 to 41? *titters* I get from that it's saying, "Welllll...yes and no." So then I have to ask "How so?"

Actually, the Yi has influenced my attitude tremendously about a situation at work, but not through Hex 42. I mentioned the power tripper in another thread. Well....part of her power tripping is to try to get me fired. It seems her original motivation was to cover her butt (an MO my immediate supervisor and colleagues are all well aware of and have all been victims of in the past), but now it's grown into something else altogether...something bigger...something obsessive.

Having failed to convince the division head of my inefficiency, who could find no evidence of her assertions through several surprise visits to my facility to see for himself, she is now travelling around the country looking for mistakes I might have made. In her eagerness to find (and point out) my mistakes, she's ended up making about three big blunders herself...for everyone in the world to see. Every attempt has backfired on her.

She's definitely on a mission and very determined, and it seems every failure seems to make her even more determined. Her efforts have been rather disruptive and time consuming for everyone else in the company. My immediate supervisor has been very nervous and tense, my colleagues have become angry about their time being wasted. And it is, for the most part, a pretty oppressive situation.

But me? I'm not in the least worried. And why am I not worried? Well the Yi of course! They have confirmed that my "tormentor" does indeed have immense power and that the situation is indeed oppressive, but as long as I remain steadfast, she can do me no harm.

Today I had a conversation with the Yi because of her latest attempt. I haven't been worried. I know that whatever happens will work out for the best for me, but it's starting to wear me down. Instead of being able to just focus on my current workload, deadlines and priorities, I have to keep pulling my documentation and showing her where the mistakes she thought she could blame on me were actually oversights on the part of her own staff.

When I told the Yi of a plan I had to try to get out of this without too much damage to my reputation, they answered 5.4 to 43. I decided then to just keep my cool, keep at my job like always and trust that time will tell the truth.

Shortly after I went back to my tasks with a renewed vigor and Buddhalike calm, the division head, who hadn't made a surprise visit in a couple of weeks, popped in. This visit, however, was different from the previous "inspections". His attitude was different. Ever since Power Tripper started her quest, he'd been rather cold and aloof...suspicious. This time, he was back to warm and friendly.

When he left, I just smiled and said thank you very quietly to the Yi.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

 

[yellowblue]

Big sigh and

...I love this thread!!! I've so enjoyed hearing all of you. Next time I'm on the treadmill of 35 and feeling terribly ignorant with 4, I will remember it and smile a little more.

Thanks!!!

Deb

 

[cal val]

Martin...

If you like Douglas Adams, have you tried Tom Robbins? It's kind of the same genre...what I like to call "irreverent relevance."

Cheerio the noo,

Val

 

[candid]

Val - awesome!

That still calm, and knowing you've been guided, and saying, thank you.

 

[frandoch]

Louise,

Fear not, dear lady. My ego is in fine fettle, and I did not call myself a tosser - I said, if you would be kind enough to read what I wrote (schoolmasterly tone here, so ruler at the ready) that of the spectrum of opinions about me, there are a few who think I'm a tosser.

And I delight in your command of the language - nearly as good as mine LOLOL.

Far be it from me to deny you the pleasure of slapping me down - heaven forfend - Ahhh, change that to 'forbid' -I sometimes forget that we have members in the US, where the word forfend has a different meaning. Alas, they speak a different language.

As George Bernard Shaw is supposed to have said: (actually it does not appear anywhere in his published writings)

'England and America are two nations separated by a common language.'

As for your question about whether the 'Yi' takes the p*** - She certainly does in my case - especially when I'm in 'ego' mode.

Be gentle (especially with me, LOL)

Michael F.

 

[louise]

Val, well i did get 42 to 41, but dunno about the 'yes' and 'no' idea - interesting idea though.

Thanks for your thoughts Candid.

Frandoch, I stand corrected. You did not call yourself a 'tosser' on another thread, but said there were those who may well have called you one, or who have actually called you one (?)

Funny, just as eskimos have 22 words for snow and we have one, the English seem to have at least 100 words for 'idiot' or 'foolish person'. I wonder why that is ? Also I wonder what 'forfend' means in the US ?

 

[martin]

Hi Val,

Yes, I like Douglas Adams very much.
It's a pity that he left the planet so early.
I didn't try Tom Robbins yet, but I will, thanks.

Martin

 

[frandoch]

Louise,

I have been called most things including that one. LOLOL.

Forfend: English - to avoid, to ward off
North America _ to secure, to protect.

Michael F.

 

[cal val]

So....

Mr. Michael Frandoch and Louise...when are you two going to meet at the Ritz for tea? I'm watching the most delightful friendship develop here, and that seems the next logical step to me...*grin*

Cheerio the noo,

Val

 

[martin]

Oh yes Val, tea for two!
But could anyone please define "ego" for me?
I don't know what it is or what is wrong with it.
I guess it is the modern scapegoat

that has replaced the sex of other times.
Right?

Martin

 

[cal val]

Candid...

I really am pleasantly surprised with my response to this whole bruhaha. It's a first for me actually. I don't think I've ever been in quite so tense a situation or been this calm in any tense situation in the workplace. And I owe it to the wise counsel of the Yi.

My performance on this job, whether it ends now or later, is integral to my securing another position when the end does come. If I were to internalize this whole dog and pony show, it would greatly hamper my performance, and I would make those mistakes Ms. Power Tripper is so desperately looking for. That would only hasten the end and reflect badly on my resume.

The fact that the present economy is literally killing the parent company and it is struggling to survive is a good deal of added stress. But, because of the Yi, I know this is all really a good thing. There is a great opportunity coming out of or in spite of this...and this too shall pass...*grin*

Cheerio the noo,

Val

 

[frandoch]

Hi Martin,

I hope this helps.

Michael F.

<FONT COLOR="0000ff">EGO AND THE ?I CHING?

In the interpretations of the hexagrams that follow, there will be frequent references to the ?ego? and ?ego-based? actions. It is important that these words, as they are used in the present work, are defined. To begin with, let?s try to see where the concept of ego comes from. In order to do this, we shall consider the various levels of consciousness as found in the world. We will consider a rock, a plant, an animal and a human.

A rock has a very low level of consciousness. It just sits there. It doesn?t move unless acted upon by an external force. It is wholly governed by the laws of cause and effect. Some would doubt that the Life Force is present in a rock, but the rock does show some measure of organisation. As we have seen, it consists of atoms or molecules held together in a specific arrangement by invisible forces, and these forces are part of the Life Force.

A plant exhibits a higher level of consciousness than a rock. As well as being subject to cause and effect, it responds to external stimuli. The sprouting seed produces two shoots, one of which will form the root and which grows downwards in the direction of gravity, whilst the other shoot grows upwards, against the force of gravity. Its flowers will open in the sunlight and close when the light levels fall. Some flowers will follow the sun, turning as the sun goes from one horizon to the other. There is a primitive intelligence at work here.

An animal exhibits a higher level of consciousness yet. It is subject to cause and effect; it responds to external stimuli; but it also has instinctive drives which are not external. It is aware of food, potential mates and potential enemies. This awareness is internal, but the animal will respond to these internal stimuli.

A human is subject to cause and effect, and responds to both external and internal stimuli. But, in addition, a human will respond to internal stimuli which don?t exist, i.e. imagined stimuli. The human mind is capable of asking the question ?What if.....??. This means that it can produce a model of reality in its mind, from which it can project possible futures, and make decisions accordingly. This model necessarily contains a representation of reality which includes the concept of ?I?. In other words, humans are aware that they exist. They have ?self awareness?. It?s what makes us different from animals.

There may be a blurring of the boundaries of the above four levels of consciousness, but there is no doubt that the four levels exist.

In many ways ?self awareness? is a blessing, but in other ways it is a curse. The internal model of reality represents the world, including the concept of ?I? as a separate being. This separate being feels itself to be separate from everything else in the Universe; it feels threatened; it feels vulnerable; it feels that in order to survive it has to take on the external world and win, or it will be destroyed. This separate being is the ?ego?. But the separation is an illusion. It?s unreal. It?s a construct of the mind. We are all connected. We are totally dependent on things outside of ourselves in order to go on living. The air we breathe, the food we eat, our friends, our lovers, all other people, the weather, the seasons - we are interdependent with all that exists.
The ego has other problems. It cannot live in the present moment. It cannot handle the ?Now?. Its identity is based totally on the past. It is built of past memories and experiences and because of its fear, it must protect its identity by manipulating the future. But unfortunately for the ego, the future doesn?t exist. Not only is the ego unable to deal with the present moment, it actively fears it, because if the ?real you? lives in the present moment, the ego evaporates, and it can?t let that happen. At least, not without a fight. It will do anything in its power to stop the ?real you? from living in the ?Now?. But, there is nothing else but the ?Now?. You can?t experience anything but the present moment. You can?t change the past. You can?t alter the future until it becomes the ?Now?. Remember, the ?I Ching? is your connection with the Collective Unconscious, or Higher Self, which only knows the ?Now?, because it experiences past, present and future as one eternal ?Now?.

Can you not see that the ego is a curse? There exist not only individual egos, but collective egos, such as tribal and national egos. After all, nationalism is only an advanced form of tribalism. It is these collective egos which cause racial hatred, fear of different others, wars, in fact, most of the ills of mankind. Because of both the individual and collective egos, humanity is the most insane and dangerous species that has ever existed on this planet, and unless we find a way to control these negative forces, we will destroy ourselves and possibly the planet. We have to continue to evolve, but do it consciously. We must transcend the ego state; we must rid ourselves of this dangerous illusion. The ?I Ching? tells us how.

So, what are the characteristics of ego-based behaviour?

Guilt, sadness, remorse, bitterness, anger, regret, depression, hostility, resentment, etc. These characteristics are all based on past experiences and all represent our inability to forgive ourselves and others for the past, which we cannot change. We can only learn from it.

Fear, worry, anxiety, nervous tension, apprehension, dread, panic, trepidation, etc. These characteristics are all based on a projected future, about which we can do nothing until it becomes the ?Now?. And most of our fears never materialise anyway.

In every part of the text, the message is the same: ?Curb the ego. Follow the ways of the ?wise?. In doing this we will be contributing to the future of ourselves, others, the environment, the planet and then the Universe. People often ask the question: ?But what can I do? What can any one person do? We are powerless.? We are not powerless. We have immense power, if only we knew it. True, we can?t change other people; we can?t change the world. But we can change ourselves, and in doing so we become a centre of influence, which will spread far and wide. It?s like dropping a pebble into a pond. The waves spread over the whole pond, influencing everything in the pond. Not everyone has to change. We only need a small ?critical mass? of people who follow the Sage in order to change the world.

Don?t doubt the wisdom of acting in accordance with the Sage. From personal experience I can say: ?Try it. It works?.</FONT>

 

[martin]

Well Michael, that's more or less the story that I've heard many times.
I think it's in most cases our superego that creates problems, not our ego, whatever that is.
And that same superego (whatever _that_ is) tells us that we should cange, curb the ego, follow the Sage, etcetera.
Hmmm, looks like a trap to me ...

Martin

 

[frandoch]

Hi Martin,

I offer my thoughts about things, based on my studies and my experience. You are free to choose whether those thoughts are relevant to you or not.

I merely place them before you. You can pick them up, try them out, use them or discard them. Each of us is on a separate path.

But, if we are to discuss this topic, then I have defined what I mean by ego, and I would ask you to define your use of the terms ego and superego.

If they are part of triple term 'Ego, Id and Superego', beloved of one school of psychology, then we are talking of different things, especially as these terms have never been defined except in the vaguest manner.

I cannot see a trap in what I wrote, but if there is one, I would like to hear about it, as I may have to change my thinking on this subject.

Your input would be welcome.

Michael F.

 

[martin]

Why don't you see the trap, Michael? It's obvious ..

Martin

 

[frandoch]

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

I think it's in most cases our superego that creates problems, not our ego, whatever that is.
And that same superego (whatever _that_ is).... <!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Martin,

The above quote from your post is meaningless.

You have put forward an argument based on words that you admit have no meaning for you. That would be a trap, but I have no intention of being seduced into a discussion based on words without defined meanings.

Good try though !!