There are times :-}

[heylise]

Reading - reading - enjoying myself. Eaten too much chocolate.

More great mails: Malka, Dharma, and some others

55 more to go

LiSe

 

[Sparhawk]

Hi Val:

If we go by the exhibited stubbornness I may very well be one (basque people are known by their stubbornnes, among many other good things) but, nope, I'm not from the Pais Vasco. I am however from a country where there is a large basque colony and know them very well. Great people and very enterprising and independent. I have many good friends that are 'vascos'.

Regarding Gene's comments, well, that's a subject to debate for a long while. Nobody knows exactly where the Vascos come from. Their language, called Euskara, has no connections to either Gaelic/Celt language (like the language spoken in Galicia, Spain and Ireland) or Latin (like Spanish itself or French). Their language has been almost untouched for about 4000 years and they strongly resist change, in this and many other areas, as you can gather from the constant flow of news on terrorist acts in Spain, the latest one just yesterday.

Cheers,

Luis

 

[dharma]

My last word on ego... Ultimately, when aspects of ourselves remain unintegrated in the fold of the one unified field of our individuality, this gives rise to ego. The spaces and segmentations that result between our multiple selves (see Val's post above) cause us to look out at the world through particular facets of our being rather than through the synthesized portal of only One. As the-many-are-gathered-together the barriers between them dissolve one-by-one until the illusion of separation no longer exists. That is nirvana. But let's not kid ourselves, there are many aspects to integrate... just getting around to all of you here on this board will probably take up a good chunk of my time.

P.S. Poor LiSe, with Luis' and my post you now have 57 more mails to get through

 

[heylise]

I am through!! Loved it all, everyone with his/her own idea of how to reach the here-and-now. Did put flags on many mails, so I can read them again calmer. Now I raced through everything.

One little remark about inner chatter: Lilian asked about it. I think it was Malka who answered, and I think she is right, that chatter pulls us away from the now. But some people need some chatter to clear up the junk inside. I do, I have moon in Virgo, without some chatter things get lost in the dark without being solved.
So chatter, but just do not go on and on with it.

LiSe

 

[Sparhawk]

Hi Davidl:

<BLOCKQUOTE><HR SIZE=0><!-Quote-!><FONT SIZE=1>Quote:</FONT>

My background is Judaism but wasn't it Jesus who basically said 'all is forgiven' . No benevolent creator I believe would allow suffering of this kind. Karma is a man made idea. If you doubt this then dont doubt that by asking your creator to wipe the slate clean, like, today, that grace would descend. Would you punish your child for an indiscretion that occured 10 years ago. Of course not, then why would your creator. <!-/Quote-!><HR SIZE=0></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I was born and raised a Catholic and I understand your comment about Jesus giving us a somewhat clean slate with his crucifixion (there are quite a few loopholes though, to put it in legalese) but it seems that you and I have been reading two different Old Testaments.

I will not get into lenghty theological discussions but, the G-d of Jewish antiquity (and Christian for that matter) is someone that gives you love with the left hand while dispensing quite a few spankings with the right one, some of them very nasty and sometimes down to the seventh future generation. (not to mention some cruel jokes like the one played on Abraham and his son Isaac...) If that is not a good analogy for Karma I've be hard pressed to find a better one.

Now, that does not mean that I believe in Karma as a fixed association with Fate. However, I do believe that one's spirit carries a baggage of mistakes and teaching from previous lives which are to be solved, and to keep learning from, in the current stage of evolution. That's where fate is combated and, if you are wise enough, defeated. If one does not strive for spiritual growth then, IMHO, Karma will be experienced stronger and the inertia of the baggage you are carrying will take over your fate.

I strongly believe that the ultimate goal of one's spiritual growth is to "dictate" Fate what is the course that one's spirit will take, be it in this or in future stages of evolution. Karma, as I see it, is the diary your soul keeps. An organized reference manual for a learned spirit or a mixed and disorganized collection of notes for an immature one.

Luis

 

[dharma]

Quote:

"Karma, as I see it, is the diary your soul keeps. An organized reference manual for a learned spirit or a mixed and disorganized collection of notes for an immature one."

Nicely said Luis. Can I use your words sometime myself?

Dharma

 

[Sparhawk]

But of course!

Luis

 

[malka]

David wrote:

"Anita, say to yourself every morning when you wake up ."I am new". I have no karmic baggage. I am free! Release yourself."

The traditional morning prayers in Judaism includes a line translated as, "Thank you, G-d for returning me to my soul. The soul you have given me, she is pure."

 

[cal val]

Malka...

You remind me a lot of a Malka I worked with at CPT a few years ago.

Cheerio the noo,

Val

 

[davidl]

malka,

One of my favourite teachings from Judaism is
'we are not a body with a soul, but a soul with a body.

Speak soon.

 

[malka]

Val, what's CPT? I'm pretty sure I'm not the same Malka, but it's nice to know I remind you of someone I hope you like!

David, that's good -- never heard that before. Thank you.

Lila Tov! (Good night!) Well, it's night for me over here in North America!

 

[pedro]

This ego topic is one of my most important concerns. I dont have the time now to read all this thread, and comment on so many things I did (and otheres that I did not) agree.
But if what I learned can be of some help, here is how to deal with the ego: stop thinking "I am" and focus on just being.
There is no way to overcome the ego, other than physical death. We wouldnt want to shut the ego off either, since it is our means of survival. What we can do is weaken our identification with it. Instead of attaching to the sense of I, we have to just be able to BE. We can do and be much more that way. In practical terms this is similar to focusing on the NOW, realising that life is splendurous if we just look at it.

 

[dharma]

Pedro,

Quote: "What we can do is weaken our identification with it. Instead of attaching to the sense of I, we have to just be able to BE."

How does one weaken identification with something that is by nature multi-faceted and whose facets one has not yet fully identified with and come to recognize as one's own?

It seems to me that if one is being controlled by something (in this case, ego) it may be because one hasn't yet identified precisely what "it" is and how it is doing it. Based on my understanding of ego, your suggestion, to dis-identify, is not possible until certain conditions are met. Unless of course, you are simply talking of letting-go, as in meditation. Otherwise...

Ego is a conglomeration of separate "I's" that must be brought into conscious awareness before one can accomplish ego dis-identification.

Very simply, one cannot do away with something that one has yet to acknowledge as belonging to Self.

Most people I've ever met identify with only a few select "I's". Hence, the narcissistic behaviors that we equate with ego are hard for many people break free from because the "I" that is at the root of the problem has yet to be identified and accepted. This is integration - the process of bringing together as one, one's whole Self.

Dharma

 

[tashiiij]

Dharma;

To my understanding, what you are writing about is personified in the Tibetan Buddhist Thanka's which depict a lineage tree, a realization lineage tree. The Guru, with the lineage of Buddha's over head, is surrounded by many many ferocious and peaceful dieties, devas and dakini's.

In the tantric traditions, one works with a teacher who draws all this out of the practioner. Not always a pretty, or comfortable process.

To say the least.

tashij

 

[dharma]

tashij,

Correct... not pretty nor comfortable a process, but worth the trouble of doing the inner work.

The energy that is freed up from the cellular level of the body, where said energy was stored (inhibited) originally, becomes available and accessible to the individual to be used in other ways.

Dharma

 

[heylise]

Dharma quoted Pedro: "What we can do is weaken our identification with it.
Instead of attaching to the sense of I, we have to just be
able to BE."

I did not join in the discussion about the ego because it was way over my head. I cannot even find out what ego is, let alone say anything intelligent about it.
I do know the difference between being here-and-now and being ?thoughts?. But trying to find out how things are inside only blocks the way to here-and-now for me. I did, I have been searching for years, without much result. Tiny steps forward, and then again long times without any happiness.
This applies to me personally, others probably have different ways to search, and different ways to find. But I could very well understand what Pedro meant.
On a day I suddenly grasped it. I had felt it many times already, but only for short moments. I did not know how to get hold on it. Now I know.

Tashij quoted from Tenzin Palmo's book, "Cave In The Snow" in the thread ?Molotov coctails? (in the discussions). Here is another quote, she can say it much better than I can:


?. ?We need to clear out the junk yard, quieten the inner noise. And the way to do that is to keep the mind in the moment. That?s the most perfect rest for the mind. That's meditation. Awareness. The mind relaxed and alert. Five minutes of that and you?ll feel refreshed, and wide awake,'
?People say they have no time for ?meditation?. It?s not true!? she goes on. ?You can meditate walking down the corridor, waiting for the computer to change, at the traffic lights, standing in a queue, going to the bathroom, combing your hair. Just he there in the present, without the mental commentary. Start by choosing one action during the day and decide to he entirely present for that one action. Drinking the tea in the morning. Shaving. Determine, for this action I will really he there. It?s all habit. At the moment we?ve got the habit of being unaware. We have to develop the habit of being present. Once we start to be present in the moment everything opens up. When we are mindful there is no commentary ? it?s a very naked experience, wakeful, vivid.?

?It?s so simple we miss it. We think it has to be something bigger, more spectacular. What do people think spiritual development is? It?s not lights and trumpets. It?s very simple. It?s right here and now. People have this idea that Enlightenment and realization is something in the distance ? a very fantastic and magnificent happening which wil1 transform everything once and for always. But it?s not like that at all. It?s something which is sometimes so simple you hardly see it. It?s right here in front of us, so close we don?t notice it. And it?s something which can happen at any moment. And the moment we see it, there it is. It?s been there all the time, but we?ve had our inner eye closed. When the moments of awareness all link up ? then we become a Buddha.

She searches for an analogy to illustrate her meaning. ?At the moment it?s as though we?re looking through a pair of binoculars and the perspective is blurred. When we experience anything we do so through the filter of ideas, preconceptions, judgements. For example, when we meet somebody we don?t see them as they actually are. We see them in relationship to what we?re thinking about them ? how much we like or dislike them, how they remind us of somebody else, what sort of qualities they have. We?re not experiencing them in themselves. Everything we perceive is like that ? everything we see, eat, hear, touch. It?s immediately interpreted hack to ourselves in conformity with our thoughts and experiences.
?We might think, "So what? It?s not important?. But what happens is that we?re living several paces back from the experience itself and therefore we become more and more conditioned, more and more robotic. We become increasingly computer-like. Someone ?pushes our buttons? as they so aptly put it and out comes the conditioned response. What we have to do is bring everything into sharp focus, to see things as they truly are as if for the very first time ? like a small baby looking at the murals in a shrine room, as the Tibetans say. The baby sees the colours and shapes without judgement, its mind is fresh. That?s the state of mind we have to bring into our everyday life. If we can learn to do that, without doing anything else, it will transform the situation automatically,?

... Normally we are so identified with our thoughts and emotions, that we are them. We are the happiness, we are the anger, we are the fear. We have to learn to step back and know our thoughts and emotions are just thoughts and emotions. They?re just mental stares.

?Once we realize that the nature of our existence is beyond thought and emotions, that it is incredibly vast and inter-connected with all other beings, then the sense of isolation, separation, fear and hopes fall away. It?s a tremendous relief!?

 

[dharma]

Very nice LiSe, and I agree with you all the way. We are saying the same thing only in our own unique and different ways.

Ultimately, the goal is to gaze upon all one's constantly flucuating and changing colors, objectively and serenely, rather than being colored (affected) by them. But the first step is to recognize (identify) when and how one is being colored.

One learns how to crawl and walk, and maybe even how to dance, before they can take off flying. I don't make the rules, these are the realistic conditions of living within this slow, coarse dimension that we are all familiar with.

 

[yellowblue]

: )

it does all seem to be about coloring (shades) and the dots (perception)...when one is here now, one is centered and being in the center one can sees all (of the shades and dots and how they "connect).

I haven't become green yet.

Deb

 

[anita]

David,

if you like Cayce, how come you don'tb really know what he's saying about cause and effect? He does point out many diseases and phobias and circumstances that stem from past lives. And one doesn't get rid of one's bad karma just by praying for it. It requires a change of attitude.
And of course as you say, you can dispense your karma. That's what I'm doing with my spiritual practice so I can attain purity - some day. That state of being and spirit where there are no flaws and the divine seed in you shines through unfettered.
Some day perhaps.

Best for your Quest

Anita

 

[anita]

David,

Forgot to answer your point about the sins of our fathers. In India this is a very common concept and I believe Christianity too speaks of it. But whether anyone does or not is only theory. I speak from experience with my son. In a rocky marriage any other child would have probably been traumatised and had psychological problems and would have probably been a poor student. But not my son. He has survived much and is still well-balanced and joyous. It's because what virtue I'm able to gather in my spiritual practice is transferred to him and so I have no anxieties about him even though he lives with his father - my ex-husband. In contrast my step-daughter has had many problems because of his rocky first marriage. Had his ex-wife (whom I introduced to the Path) been practising, it would have been different for the daughter too.

Anita

 

[yellowblue]

Hi Anita and all--

Just a thought, (but coming from a very orthodox Christian background and giving a lot of thought to finding the true Christ, Buddha, Mohammed, etc.....) re: the sins of the fathers....

I used to aske myself if I was being punished for my father's transgressions....then came the time of letting myself open to other possible meanings (which took a lot of courage). Then I questioned things I was afraid to question at first.

To me, the sins of the fathers is the wrongs we as humans do against the universe and the pain we reap from doing so....(which ripples to a personal injury as well). Of course this can be on any level, but usually, for me anyway, a cosmic level on one hand which is influenced through the generations down to me.

Deb

 

[yellowblue]

Which I guess is cause and effect, but the consequences are indirectly reaped.

Deb