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Trump's Enablers: 27.6 to 24, 41.6 to 19 and 5.2.5 to 36

Fanofenka

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Ever since Trump's ascendance to the White House, he has been manipulated and has his strings pulled by his enablers. The enablers are basically the GOP in the Congress, where the moderates fall in line?

What do I need to know about Trump's enablers? 27.6 Nourishment to 24 Returning.
Line 6 says, "Origin of nourishment. Danger, good fortune. Fruitful to cross the great river." Is it risky to prop up Trump?
Are the changing hexagrams telling me that the enablers want to purify the GOP in order to turn back from Trump?

What are Trump's enablers up to now? 41.6 Decreasing to 19 Nearing.
Line 6 says, "Not decreasing, increasing it – not a mistake. Constancy, good fortune. Fruitful to have a direction to go. Gaining servants, not a home." Will they have Trump to help them in 2020?
Are the changing hexagrams telling me that the enablers are increasing their strength and will be close to political domination?

I am getting changing line 6 for both questions.

What will happen to Trump's enablers in the future? 5.2.5 Waiting to 36 Brightness Hidden.
Line 2 says, "Waiting on the sands, there are small words. In the end, good fortune." Will there be gossip?
Line 5 says, "Waiting with food and drink. Constancy, good fortune." Will they have a party?
Are the changing hexagrams telling me that they will see what Trump does while they hide in the dark?
 

foxx777

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I think you should just stop with the first question and not complicate things with follow up questions. It takes considerable time to focus and meditate on a casting, and to contemplate changing lines; by doing several you muddy the waters.

So let’s focus on:

What do I need to know about Trump's enablers? 27.6 Nourishment to 24 Returning.
Line 6 says, "Origin of nourishment. Danger, good fortune. Fruitful to cross the great river." Is it risky to prop up Trump?
Are the changing hexagrams telling me that the enablers want to purify the GOP in order to turn back from Trump?

I think Trump’s enablers have the potential to succeed. I always use DeKorne’s site as a contemplative tool for changing lines: certainly the talk of “great joy” indicates success, if Confucius , Legge and other commentators are viewed as legitimate.


Line-6

Legge: The sixth line, dynamic, shows him from whom comes the nourishing. His position is perilous, but there will be good fortune. It will be advantageous to cross the great stream.

Wilhelm/Baynes: The source of nourishment. Awareness of danger brings good fortune. It furthers one to cross the great water.

Blofeld: Nourishment gives rise both to trouble and good fortune. It is favorable to cross the great river (or sea). [Our quest for the necessities of mind and body brings mixed results.]

Liu: Seeking the source of nourishment. Danger, good fortune. It is of benefit to cross the great water.

Ritsema/Karcher: Antecedent Jaws. Adversity significant. Harvesting: wading the Great River.

Shaughnessy: From the jaw; danger; auspicious; beneficial to ford the great river.

Cleary (1): The source of nourishment; dangerous, but auspicious. It is beneficial to cross great rivers.

Cleary (2): At the source of nourishment, it is good to be diligent, etc.

Wu: He nurtures all below him. With fortitude comes auspiciousness, etc.



COMMENTARY

Confucius/Legge: His good fortune, notwithstanding the peril of his position, affords great cause for congratulation. Wilhelm/Baynes: It has great blessing. Blofeld: We shall enjoy great blessings.[`Blessings' means good fortune apparently unconnected with our merits or endeavors.] Ritsema/Karcher: The great possessing reward indeed. Cleary (2): There will be great celebration.Wu: There will be great joy.

Legge: The topmost line is dynamic, and line five relies on him. Being penetrated with the idea of the hexagram, he feels himself in the position of master or tutor to all under heaven. The task is hard and the responsibility great, but realizing these things, he will prove equal to them.

Anthony: The source of nourishment comes from the Sage to ourself and from ourself to others. Only by nourishing ourself correctly can we fulfill our responsibility to nourish others. We “cross the great water” when we tend to this inner nourishment, sorting out and resolutely discarding all the thoughts fantasies, false comforts and self-deceptions that are unworthy of our inner dignity. In this way we get past the dangers they create.
 
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moss elk

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I always use DeKorne’s site as a contemplative tool for changing lines: certainly the talk of “great joy” indicates success, if Confucius , Legge and other commentators are viewed as legitimate.

I promise not to rant about Dekorne today,
I've done it enough in the past.

Look at Confucious, Legge, and Wilhelm there, but please, I beg you, ignore what
'the editor' writes, and understand that while Anthony is occassionally insightful, she has some sort of very narrow tunnel vision in general about the texts meanings, that overall make her not so great a source for learning. (the editor is, shall we say, baked.)
 
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foxx777

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I promise not to rant about Dekorne today,
I've done it enough in the past.

Look at Confucious, Legge, and Wilhelm there, but please, I beg you, ignore what
'the editor' writes, and understand that while Anthony is occassionally insightful, she has some sort of very narrow tunnel vision in general about the texts meanings, that overall make her not so great a source for learning. (the editor is, shall we say, baked.)
Yes, understood, and I do not take any interpretations or commentary as gospel. That said, what do you think the casting indicates regarding Trump and his enablers?
 
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Freedda

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It seems to me that there's more than a bit of GIGO* at work here. And I find myself questioning, if the questions are prejudice or skewed, are we simply going to be looking for (or even getting) skewed less-than-truthful responses?

Why, for example, are you refering to these people as 'enablers'? And if that's in any way true, can't we just as easily - and just as accurately - refer to Bernie's enablers, or Corbyn's? And what deals are being struck between these people? And whom exactly is manipulating whom in all these situations?

For me, here 27 is about looking more closely at people's 'appetites' - what makes them hungry and why do the seek the particular foods they do to satiate themselves? Why, for example would people turn to Trump for their sustanance? And I wonder, is this a question that the Democrats should be asking, but aren't because they get so distracted by the petty goings-on of the POTUS?

27.6 says to me that it's only by being brutally honest, and looking at and addressing people's hopes and fears that the Democrats will gain any traction and get anywhere.

Best, D.
* GIGO = garbage in / garbage out
 
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Freedda

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I promise not to rant about Dekorne today, I've done it enough in the past. (... shall we say, baked.)
How shall I rant about Dekorne, or ... how shall I love thee or how shall I misuse thee, let me count the ways ...

The Dekorne site reminds me of something I was reading recently. It was an essay by Edward Espe Brown who was the first head cook at Tassajara Zen Center (in Big Sur, Calif.) from 1967 to 1970. In the essay he describes how the breakfasts at the zen center grew in complexity as more and more people started to go there. Starting with simple bowls of oatmeal, they soon found themselves offering all kinds of condiments: salt, sesame salt, soy sauce, miso, sugar, honey, milk, soy or almond or oat mik, raisins, nuts, and on and on and on ....

One day Suzuki Roshi, whom founded Tassajara, the first Buddhist monastery outside Asia, gave a talk about 'one taste, many tastes'. He told people that they had so many choices and were so attached to having their food taste the way they wanted it - and were so worried that the food might not be salty enough, or too salty, or too yang, or too sugary - ... that they were failing to understand or appreicate the idea of 'one taste' - which to me speaks of simplicity and of accepting or knowing things as they are.

For me DeKorne is like these 'many tastes' - there is something there for everyone, and you can pretty much make any hexagram or reading be the way you think it should be and say what you think it should say. But in doing so you could likely be missing the essence of what the Yi is telling you.

And while I do appreicate the idea of using this site as a learning tool, I think the temptation of these 'too many tastes' too often overshadows what good we might glean from it. I therefore don't find it a useful tool.

Best, D.
 
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foxx777

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How shall I rant about Dekorne, or ... how shall I love thee or how shall I misuse thee, let me count the ways ...

The Dekorne site reminds me of something I was reading recently. It was an essay by Edward Espe Brown who was the first head cook at Tassajara Zen Center (in Big Sur, Calif.) from 1967 to 1970. In the essay he describes how the breakfasts at the zen center grew in complexity as more and more people started to go there. Starting with simple bowls of oatmeal, they soon found themselves offering all kinds of condiments: salt, sesame salt, soy sauce, miso, sugar, honey, milk, soy or almond or oat mik, raisins, nuts, and on and on and on ....

One day Suzuki Roshi, whom founded Tassajara, the first Buddhist monastery outside Asia, gave a talk about 'one taste, many tastes'. He told people that they had so many choices and were so attached to having their food taste the way they wanted it - and were so worried that the food might not be salty enough, or too salty, or too yang, or too sugary - ... that they were failing to understand or appreicate the idea of 'one taste' - which to me speaks of simplicity and of accepting or knowing things as they are.

For me DeKorne is like these 'many tastes' - there is something there for everyone, and you can pretty much make any hexagram or reading be the way you think it should be and say what you think it should say. But in doing so you could likely be missing the essence of what the Yi is telling you.

And while I do appreicate the idea of using this site as a learning tool, I think the temptation of these 'too many tastes' too often overshadows what good we might glean from it. I therefore don't find it a useful tool.

Best, D.
I can see that, yes. The only thing I can say in its defense is that the various commentary are usually very similar: If I’m upset with a casting the DeKorne site usually makes matters worse by reinforcing the meaning which has unsettled me. In other words, there is less chance of twisting things to make the reading more agreeable to one’s own wishes or desires. I think the Trump castings are a case in point.
 

Lavalamp

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DeKorne's site is very useful, like a Biblical concordance where you can view various translations side by side.
But this Clarity site of Hillary's is I think a thing of history. I don't know what Hilary's original vision was, but I think maybe Clarity has taken on an unexpected life of it's own, as readers from around the world share their experiences with the Yi.
It's a virtual library on The Book Of Changes in practical life. May it continue far far into the future.
- LL
 

Trojina

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I think de Korne's site is nuisance in the sense that he provides much, sometimes misleading translation/commentary but has no forum to assist people with the misguided ideas they have gathered from there.

It's not as bad as it was. There was a time about a year ago where everyone in SR had come straight from de Korne, got the wrong idea about the readings and then come here for first aid on their reading.


I wouldn't even bother with half the stuff there because Hilary's book, Bradford's book and LiSe's work are IMO far more useful than anything on there. Oh of course Wilhelm is worthy, something I will always look at but on the whole I don't appreciate great clumps of de Korne's site here at all, I think it gets in the way, I don't read it. I actually think it's confusing and there are people who have made the Yi something that isn't the Yi at all such as Carol Anthony, de Korne's commentary, Cleary (isn't that taoist I Ching ) . In general I don't welcome loads of quotes of de Korne's site. If he was going to provide all that maybe he could have provided a forum too since in general this site serves as an emergency ward for those who have gone to deKorne.
 
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Lavalamp

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Well Trojina, there are many many Biblical Concordance sites that are similar in their model, that place the translations side by side and offer commentary by someone, for example Mathew Henry. Why don't you make your own better site that includes your more favored modern translations?
Having the translations side by side rather than just relying on one Guru's take as "the best" I think allows a reader to take a step back and get the wider gist of what the Yi is trying to say. They are not really so different from a broader perspective.
You don't have to agree with the commentary of DeKorne, to find the site a helpful tool.

- LL
 

Trojina

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Actually it being 'shared readings' not 'give a reading for nothing' the idea here is the querent does most of the interpreting themselves or at least shares their ideas. This doesn't always happen. Throwing in a bunch of translations just isn't that useful to anyone. I don't think it's even useful to those who do it, especially when they could be thinking about it, writing about it themselves.

You totally missed the point of Shared Reading if you think it is about taking one 'guru's' word as the best. The idea is people do their own. I don't rely on any guru when I respond to people I respond from my own head.

As for telling me to go make my own site I have as much right to give a view of de Korne's site as anyone and I contribute far more often here than you do so why don't you and make your own site.

You don't have to agree with me but I do have a right to an opinion without being told to go make my own site !
 
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Lavalamp

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Well gee Trojina.
When I quote translations, it is to source where my interpretation comes from.
I find DeKorne's site a useful tool in reading for others because there are multiple interpretations.
A similar site that includes people not on DeKorne's site, like Karcher etc. or even Charly here's commentaries would also be a useful tool.
Your combative response hurts my feelings. I certainly was not insulting you suggesting you create your own site. You're a moderator are you not? If Hilary can create Clarity and Lotti can create Yijing and Dekorne can create her Gnostic Book Of Changes, surely you can too.

- LL
 

foxx777

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Well gee Trojina.
When I quote translations, it is to source where my interpretation comes from.
I find DeKorne's site a useful tool in reading for others because there are multiple interpretations.
A similar site that includes people not on DeKorne's site, like Karcher etc. or even Charly here's commentaries would also be a useful tool.
Your combative response hurts my feelings. I certainly was not insulting you suggesting you create your own site. You're a moderator are you not? If Hilary can create Clarity and Lotti can create Yijing and Dekorne can create her Gnostic Book Of Changes, surely you can too.

- LL
I kind of felt hurt, too, in the past about rebukes regarding using DeKorne commentary, because to me it was a contemplative tool used to enhance the query and poster responses, not to replace them by any means.
 

Trojina

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Dekorne is a man, his name is James unless I am mistaken.

I have no interest in starting a website but if you want to why don't you. I am not a moderator.

I certainly was not insulting you suggesting you create your own site.

well I thought it was pretty rude. De Korne's site was being discussed, I added my opinion and then you., who rarely even responds here, tells me to get my own forum. it didn't come across well at all.
 
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Trojina

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I kind of felt hurt, too, in the past about rebukes regarding using DeKorne commentary, because to me it was a contemplative tool used to enhance the query and poster responses, not to replace them by any means.

It looked to me like deKorne's site was being discussed here already so I added my opinion which I think I am entitled to. It wasn't intended to hurt but it is a bit of a pain IMO but if you like it use it.
 

foxx777

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It looked to me like deKorne's site was being discussed here already so I added my opinion which I think I am entitled to. It wasn't intended to hurt but it is a bit of a pain IMO but if you like it use it.
I understand fully your points; just felt embarrassed so wanted to make clear that I never intended to cause any problems when I would copy paste the commentary.
 

Trojina

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Don't feel embarrassed the deKorne debate was going on long before you were here. Sorry about this I regret making you feel this way when I can see you have much to offer the forum. Do go on contributing as you feel best.
 

Trojina

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Sorry LL if i misunderstood you and hurt your feelings.
 

foxx777

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Don't feel embarrassed the deKorne debate was going on long before you were here. Sorry about this I regret making you feel this way when I can see you have much to offer the forum. Do go on contributing as you feel best.
Thanks; much appreciated. :)
 

Lavalamp

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I kind of felt hurt, too, in the past about rebukes regarding using DeKorne commentary, because to me it was a contemplative tool used to enhance the query and poster responses, not to replace them by any means.

Well I know DeKorne has his own "Gnostic" philosophy, I've not examined it. But his Yi site you have translations and commentaries from Legge and Wilhelm and Confucius and actually he also quotes Karcher. That's pretty helpful right there.
If there are other Concordance model sites out there I'd love to check them out.

- LL
 
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diamanda

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DeKorne's collection of translations is an absolute gem. It's invaluable in that it shows where a particular word from the original can be interpreted in various ways. The next step is to go check out the Chinese etymology of the character in question, for yourself. I don't read his commentaries at all. For the sake of realising the structure of translation, DeKorne's site is pure gold.
 
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Freedda

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Regarding DeKorne's website - I suggest if people want to continue discussing the pros and con's of his site that someone should start a new thread about it, maybe in 'exploring divination.' That way we're not highjacking someone else's thread, and we can also give the topic its own heading, and the attention it deserves.

D.
 
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