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Trying to figure out the best "timing" (warning, it's a long one!)

flor05

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Hi guys,

As part of my "purifycation and recontruction plan", I'm planning a talk with my husband (I recently separated, as mentioned in other posts). Last time we met face to face was 2 months ago. Since then, we had occasional chats on the phone and some text messaging, with mixed results.

I asked about this possible conversation a while ago, with positive results, but when I asked about timing, I got a bit confused.

So after 1 week, with a couple of unrelated chats with him in between, I asked again:
"What would be the outcome of having this particular talk with him?"
Hex 43, no changing lines.
Now, this one sounds a bit dangerous, but it is also about the necessity of speaking out.

I believe finding the right timing for this is very important, so here comes a string of questions:
"What's the possible outcome of a talk with him if I ask him to meet me the last week of November?"
Hex 29, no changing lines. The chasm. Seems terribly dangerous, but it also calls for action.

I repeated the question for different time frames:
"What's the possible (...) first week of December?"
Hex 54, no changing lines. Marrying maiden doesn't look too promising.

"What's the possible (...) second week of December?"
Hex 41, no changing lines. Decreasing, less is more. Not too promising either.

I even tried to narrow it down
"What's the possible (...) between 25 and 29 of November?"
12 .1.3.6 >49 Hex 12 sounds realy scary, and though 1 and 6 are positive lines, line 3 and the overall hex look very bleak.

So I went back to my original question and rephrased it:
"In the long run, will this particular talk with him contribute to getting back together?"
26 .2.3.6 > 24 All lines seemed pretty positive to me, pointing that I'm in the right track.

So I asked a more general question:
"What is the best time for such talk?"
51.5 > 17
51: Thunder, shock, arousal. Line 5: Coming and going. Work is done.
17: Following.

I been cracking my head over this one. Thunder is something unexpected. Should I just do it, and expect for him to agree to see me (17)? Or is the best time a rainy day??? :duh:
I wish there'd be an easy way to ask "when questions"!
Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.


BAKGROUND - what type of "talk" is it:
My personal work for the past months has been on understanding what happened, analysing my role in the break-up process, trying to grasp some clarity. I feel that I undertand some of his remarks (demands? /complaints?) a bit better now, and though I don't fully share his version of the story, I can understand better where he is coming from. To me, part of that process will make sense fully (or at least, in a more complete way) if I share it with him. Basically, I need him to know I don't stand quite in the same place I did when we last spoke.
On the other hand, I'm interested in the actual encounter. I want to see how I feel when I see him, and I think it would be interesting -and probaly conducive to my goal of getting back together after some time- for him to see me (there's always been a strong physical attraction).
Don't get me wrong, I know this is no fairy tale. I'm aiming at gradual process here, at a subtle influence, NOT at overnight solutions. My idea it to get him thinking, hopefully in a positive direction.
 

pink_mandolin

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Hehe

*faints, wow this is a long one :rofl: I want to have a go at it though ;)

The way you put this post might put some people who would normally reply off abit because of its length- have a read of this- It could help you next time get some more feedback sooner I think :)http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=8924

I be back online later tonight and have a look :hug: I'm starting to become "one" with clarity quite literally! In the sense I'm starting to become glued to my computer screen!! :D
 

pink_mandolin

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Some Thoughts & suggestions :)

Hi flor :hug: back, nice to meet you! I'm going to have a go at seeing what I can understand from your lines and maybe see what the Yi is advising you.

If you asked a while ago and had positive results about the talk idea and you still feel its for the best I'd trust yourself with that.

"What would be the outcome of having this particular talk with him?" Hex 43, no changing lines. (I'm reading from Wilhelm) I like that the i-ching has given you this hex, it appears very strong like you are standing your ground! I think it suits your question perfectly! This hex is telling you that it would further you to undertake this talk I think but you should conduct yourself in a certain way when you do it. You must be truthful it says- there is always a danger in being truthful but this hex shows that it may be nessisary to do so. It advises you not to do anything by force, aggressively or overt defensively when you approach him & talk. Be very clear about your intensions and do it in a friendly & union concious sort of way. Also it advises to not compromise with anything you feel is negative between you- really air everything that you need to get out but in a friendly (as best you can) manner and things should be ok. The hex shows that being resolute will lead to a breakthrough or a release of tension- which is what you'll get from the talk. It also shows that a change will be brought through this, which is stating the obvious- it doesn't say what changes though ;)

A good question you could ask is- What change will this talk bring to our relationship?
And also- How can I best approach him for the best result? But I think you read up on hex 43 you'll see the Yi is already advising you on that.

I looked at all the timing questions to see which one looks the best from my point of view :) hmmm...

If I had to choose i'd choose hexgram 29- ""If you are sincere, you have success in your
heart and whatever you do succeeds."" Thats what grabbed my attention with this hex. From your Post you seem very sincere.

It looks to me that 1st week of december is not a good idea- 54 unchanging- undertakings bring misfortune. The 2nd week of december looks ok- 41 unchanging it says it would further you to undertake something but it also if you look carefully at the hex advises you in what way to do it.

The choice is yours :D

Is the timing for this talk nessisary? Would the talk itself not be your best focus? Sometimes its easy to get lost in the details! When we want to do something we procastinate it to death! But by doing that we sort of lose focus on what we're trying to achieve I think & then often miss the right moment anyway.

Instead of asking all the timing questions- you could ask yourself if your ready to do this and then maybe ask your ex if he is ready to talk with you- an initial approach before you go ahead with the talk! if your ready and he's ready! You could ask the I-ching- if you are both ready for this talk now and see what it says :)

You know none of those hex's are scary, it might be a good idea and look at each one in depth that would help you understand your reading better and be feel less afraid! :hug:

"What is the best time for such talk?"
51.5 > 17

I think this is just saying that the best time is when you are feeling balanced/centered within yourself- when your in a balanced place within yourself you won't be emotionally tossed around & simply when your ready. The line talks about shocks and that nothing is lost but there are things to do- I think its saying that you need to get cracking! I think the relating hex is saying to follow your feelings with this, when it feels right go for it- because the relating hex talks about movement induced by joy which is natural and often spontanious! :)

Thats all I came up with, hope its useful, I wish you well with your relationship!!
 

pink_mandolin

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Flowing like Water- A good teacher..

"What's the possible outcome of a talk with him if I ask him to meet me the last week of November?"

""Hex 29, no changing lines. The chasm. Seems terribly dangerous, but it also calls for action.""

I wanted to share with you a bit more about this hexagram as I'm learning.. I've been reading over the different interpretations of hexagram 29. When you first look at it its easy to go ooooh nooo! A ravine & a pit of water I'm going to drown :rofl: But this hex spoke to me a lot! This is what I get from it- see what you think!! I'm using wilhelm as its the one I liked the most for this hex.

Its saying that you can use "danger" to your advantage here! That you can use your heart and penetrate the situation fully! Also that you must flow like water and if you conduct yourself in the right way you have success and you will learn a heck of a lot from the experience- which would not only help you learn but the relationship to progress I think. From reading your post it seems you want to learn from yourself, from this relationship and your partner!
If you are sincere, you have success in your
heart and whatever you do succeeds.
Water flows on uninterruptedly and reaches its goal:
The image of the Abysmal repeated.
Thus the superior man walks in lasting
virtue and carries on the business of teaching
I love this- your in a situation where you've become use to certain "dangers" or use to a situation which is testing you fully! I think this is you the superior man walking in lasting virtue it ties up with what you said about yourself and your situation in the little piece about your background :D By conducting this talk with your ex and planning/preparing for it carefully you are not only the student but the teacher, so don't underestimate yourself is what the i-ching is saying to you I think ;) Hold your head high. I think to get through this hex you need a lot of courage and self belief and the situation you describe (from a strangers perpective) looks like you have got that, which enabled you to get you this far!!

Anyway thats definetly my last imput! Good luck with this!!

ps. To flow like water you need to be yieling, versatile, very strong, clear and determined with your feelings/emotions but also persistant and keep going to break/wear down those barriers! That will get you to your goal I believe!!!
 

flor05

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Hi Pinky,

First off... THANKS!!!!! You've been extremely nice. I have to agree with other forum members, you really are lovely! I know the title of my post is not encouraging, but I knew it was very long. And I like to provide as much "background" information as possible, I think is critical to understand the situation.

All of your input has been incredibly helpful. I like the suggestion of asking the Yi if we are ready for the conversation. I will definitely do that when I get home.

As far as the questions I already asked, I agree with you 100%. It seems my chances will be best by late November. And I also agree with you, timing shouldn't be such a big deal, but when you feel your chances are "slim", you want to take all precautions possible. It is true that it may be counterproductive.

I loved your description of Hex 29, and how it contains "how" I should approach this conversation. You analogy with flowing water was superb!

To flow like water you need to be yieling, versatile, very strong, clear and determined with your feelings/emotions but also persistant and keep going to break/wear down those barriers! That will get you to your goal I believe!!!
Again, thanks for the best wishes too!!! :D
 

willowfox

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I even tried to narrow it down
"What's the possible (...) between 25 and 29 of November?"
12 .1.3.6 >49

This is the one to go for, as my friend said previously, line 12.6 is about you making the effort to end the stalemate situation which then leads to Hex 49, which says, "on your day he will believe you".

Remember, Hex 49 is about serious changes and that is exactly what flor wants to happen in the guy's brain.
 

flor05

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Thanks Willowfox!
Yes, and as you can see, it's the same timeframe as "last week of November", which gave me hex 29, covered by Pinky.

So everything points to the last days of the month... Challenging, but possible and with potential for success!

Thanks so much for your input! :bows:
You've been most helpful.
 

willowfox

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In actual fact, Hex 29 says yes, then you simply go to 12.1,6 > 49.

But remember what line 12.6 says, it is down to you to make the effort to sort the story out, so it is you who approaches him, you are the revolutionary.
 

pink_mandolin

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Your welcome!

Your very welcome!!!! Let us know how you get on with an update If you want to!

Wishing you great success with this xx

Ps. I like the new picture :D I love sunflowers!!
 

flor05

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thank you girls!

Thanks both of you!
I'll let you know what the outcome is. I guess I have to get him to agree to meet me first! ;)

Cheers,

Flor.

PS: I'm glad you you liked the flowers, Pinky!
 
J

jesed

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Una cuestíón de orden, por si sirve de algo:
antes de preguntar por el mejor tiempo para realizar una acción que busca el reinicio de una relación, se debe tener claridad de que vale la pena intentar el reinicio de tal relación (no sólo en términos de que sea POSIBLE, sino de que tena VALOR).

¿Ya has puesto bajo valoración (tuya, de la gente que te conoce, del Yijing) tal cuestión?

Los mejores deseos..sé lo dificil que se pasa en estas circunstancias. Ojalá lo que escribo no sea descorazonador.
 

flor05

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Hola Jesed,

Muchas gracias por tu comentario. Con respecto a tu pregunta, yo sí he estado evaluando el valor de retomar la relación. Más allá de los años de convivencia, los de matrimonio y los planes conjuntos, creo que nuestra relación aportaba mucho a cada uno a nivel personal.

Las rupturas son complicadas y, al menos en este momento, lo veo como un proceso que era necesario para eliminar ciertos obstáculos o vicios que trababan la relación. También tiene que ver con grados de madurez diferentes, que esta experiencia puede haber nivelado. Claro que también se suman cadenas de errores, de reacciones desesperadas y demás, lo que hizo que la separación finalmente se concretara y lo hiciera de la forma en que fue. Con esto quiero hacerme cargo de la parte que me toca en incrementar el dolor y los conflictos más de lo necesario.

En este punto, no estoy planteando la posibilidad de retomar la relación, la conversación de la que hablo no tiene esa finalidad, sino la de compartir ciertos cambios de visión sobre la ruptura y, tal vez, sembrar una semilla de esperanza e interés. En caso de que volvamos a estar juntos esto serviría para empezar a sentar bases más fuertes. Si no volviéramos, serviría para procesar mejor un evento doloroso y muy importante en nuestras vidas.

Voy a aceptar tu propuesta y voy a preguntar al IChing sobre el valor de retomar una relación. Sé que tal vez la respuesta no sea del todo positiva, dadas las circunstancias actuales. Aquí viene una duda filosófica... Si mucho (aunque no todo) depende de lo que hagamos y del marco de situación actual, ¿la respuestadel IChing va a estar condicionada a la conyuntura actual, o puede hablar de un potencial, en caso de que las cosas se hagan "bien"?

Nuevamente gracias,

Flor.

*****************
For the benefit of English speakers, I'm translating my above answer to Jesed.

Hi Jesed,

Thanks for your comment. About your question, I have been evaluating the benefits or value of re-starting my relationship with my husband. Aside from the years living together and joint plans, I believe we gave each other a lot as individuals.

Breakups are complex and -at least at this point- I believe it was a process necessary to clean up some obstacles and bad habits that prevented our relationship from being a better one. It is also related to different levels of maturity, which I hope this experience helped bring closer. Of course, you must add chains of mistakes, desperate reactions and things of that sort, which contributed to the separation actually taking place and shaped it. With this, I'm trying to take ownership of everything I did that increased the amount of pain and resentment more than necessary.

Right now, I'm not thinking about re-staring our relationship. It is not the purpose of the "talk" this thread is about. With it, I'm aiming at sharing my changes in my views on the breakup and, maybe, planting a seed of hope and interest. If we were to get back together, it would help to set a strong foundation. If not, it would still help us process a painful milestone in our lives.

I will accept your suggestion and I'll ask the IChing about the value or benefit of getting back together. I know already that the answer might not be altogether positive, given the current circumstances. And here's a philosophical question... If a lot (though not all) depends on what we do, in a current time frame, will the IChing's answer be conditioned by the current state of things or can it speak of a potential scenario, providing we act "appropriately"?

Again, thanks.

Flor.
 
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flor05

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one more thing...

Any suggestions on how to phrase this question?
(In either language!) ;)
 
J

jesed

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And here's a philosophical question... If a lot (though not all) depends on what we do, in a current time frame, will the IChing's answer be conditioned by the current state of things or can it speak of a potential scenario, providing we act "appropriately"?
Just in case it could be useful

The Yijing says... in order to know the future, you need to research it's seeds from the past. It also says: man/woman has the power to model and change his/her destiny. In the way I had learn, there are 4 forces in any situation: Heaven, Earth, Man and Chance. You cann't control Heaven, Earth nor Chance. But you can control your own actions (Man). That's the fragility and power of free will. It is not absolute (your free will is within a context you cann't control), but allows you to give direction on your path. That is just enough, for me ;)

So.. the answer is both conditioned by current state... within a previous-present scenario. That combination gives a potential scenario of development. But you ALWAYS have the power to nourish or change the tendencies.

With coins, the answer has it's roots in the previous 2-3 years; and covers 1-2 years of the tendencies about the future. With yarrows, experienced people can research 20-30 years in the past, and foretell 1 or 2 generations of tendencies for the future (see Zuo Zhuan)

You may ask: how do you judge my intent to rebuilt the relation?

Best wishes
 

flor05

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Thanks, Jesed!
However, I don't feel worthy of admiration at all... I'm trying to be mature about this, but I can only do that: TRY. In the end, when all is said and done, I just miss him :(

But please, do suggest what you would consider to be a productive question to the IChing. I'm starting to think is harder to come up with the correct wording of questions than to interpret the results...

Muchas gracias por tu ayuda.
 

flor05

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Sorry, I answered while you were answering...

What you say makes perfect sense. I'll think about it and cast my question (it's a bit scary, though).

Muchísimas gracias por tu ayuda.
 

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