...life can be translucent

Menu

unconfirmed date, how to proceed?

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
I am quite attracted to a gentleman who asked me on a date 12 days ago. The date plan was to go out Saturday (tomorrow) night for a bite and a performance at 8pm. I accepted the general date and he was leaving town for 4 days. Before he left said "super we will dine and enjoy the show. I will be in touch after i return." The last night of his travels he left a message saying he had had a question but nevermind, he found the answer and was being lazy." I returned the message in any case the following day.

All this week not a word from him.

The date is tomorrow, approximately 20 hours away. I have no idea if we are still going out but I am very upset, humiliated and do not know what to think or how to treat him IF he calls and acts as if this is still "on."

I asked the Yi several questions. If anyone can help me understand the answer, I apprecidate it.

+++

Show me how I should act towards him: Hex 37, liunes 1,3, 5 and 6; and Hex 2. What follows are my general guesses:

Line1: Firm seclusion within the family. Remorse disappears. = If he is allowed to exercise his whims and passions he and his parents will eventually regret the indulgence. = act like this is unacceptable. (which, to me, it seems to be. Friends would have called to confirm (or cancel) by now).

Line 3: When tempers flare up in the family, Too great severity brings remorse. Good fortune nonetheless. When woman and child dally and laugh, It leads in the end to humiliation. = Discipline tempered with tenderness is the best means of preserving concord. Too great severity is to be avoided. Nevertheless, in case of doubt, strictness is to be preferred to indulgence and brings happiness. (I should show that I'm not pleased. Its OK to act a bit peeved, but still be accepting? (How, when I am LIVID now and not sure i can cool off after this horrible treatment??)

Line 5: As a king he approaches his family. Fear not. Good fortune.
When a husband governs his family as a king governs his kingdom (or conversely) all is well. Ruling justly and kindly, evoking love and banishing fear, he brings prosperity to all. = But i am not governing here. I believe in traditional roles and he needs to be a gentleman (and a polite human being in any case). he is not acting as a "fair ruler" here. So I dont know what this means in terms of how I should behave.

Line 6: His work commands respect. In the end good fortune comes. =The man who subjects his actions to constant self-examination will bring good fortune to himself and to all his descendents, earning himself honour and universal acclaim. = I should examine my own actions. I didnt call bc he was the host, the gentleman, and he invited me... what else does this mean?


37. Chia Jên / The Family (The Clan)
The Judgement The Family. The perseverance of the woman furthers.
The Image Wind comes forth from fire: The image of The Family. Thus the superior man has substance in his words And duration in his way of life.

And hex 2 Receptive. The Receptive brings about sublime success, Furthering through the perseverance of a mare. If the superior man undertakes something and tries to lead,
He goes astray; But if he follows, he finds guidance. It is favorable to find friends in the west and south, To forego friends in the east and north. Quiet perseverance brings good fortune.

--> How do i know if he is a friend fro the "east and north" or not? (Feels like it. I want to not accept at this point, I am so angry).

The Image The earth's condition is receptive devotion. Thus the superior man who has breadth of character Carries the outer world.
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
At 1am he sent an email asking something about meeting around 6pm tonight, but if i were not up in the middle of the night, I would not have seen it until 10am at the latest, the same day of our meeting. In my view this is rude and inconsiderate. My friends always confirm at least 24 h in advance. I do not want to give this person the idea i'm ok with waiting til the last minute with things, hanging ona nd setting aside entire evenings for something that might not happen at all. I also think he's just failed a basic test of respect for other people's time (ie mine). I do not feel that i can go to meet him in good spirits now, as he has offended me greatly. Even if i go this will be eating away at me.

"Show me a picture of me cancelling tonight."


ENTHUSIASM Hexagram 16, lines 1 and 4. and HEX 24.

Thoughts?
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23,644
Reaction score
2,571
At 1am he sent an email asking something about meeting around 6pm tonight, but if i were not up in the middle of the night, I would not have seen it until 10am at the latest, the same day of our meeting. In my view this is rude and inconsiderate. My friends always confirm at least 24 h in advance. I do not want to give this person the idea i'm ok with waiting til the last minute with things, hanging ona nd setting aside entire evenings for something that might not happen at all. I also think he's just failed a basic test of respect for other people's time (ie mine). I do not feel that i can go to meet him in good spirits now, as he has offended me greatly. Even if i go this will be eating away at me.

"Show me a picture of me cancelling tonight."


ENTHUSIASM Hexagram 16, lines 1 and 4. and HEX 24.

Thoughts?

I know how you feel but people do have very different ideas about what is a usual period of notice to give re a date. It could be he assumed all along you were going to keep this date, he thought that was agreed and left the final arrangements to just beforehand thinking that would be okay. For him it may be perfectly normal

Re your second reading, well i think its a clear message not to cancel. 16.1 jumps the gun, makes preparations (to cancel) before anything even happened and is a tad highhanded. This attitude isn't good, perhaps you could tone it down a bit before you meet. 16.4 says have a bit more trust in this person.

Maybe you could give him a chance and see how it goes tonight. Anyway theres no way i see this as advice to cancel. Cancelling would be rather OTT (16.1) when you may have a pretty good time (16.4)
 
Last edited:

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
Thanks Trojan. I thought that "enthusiasm" was maybe a signal in favor for cancelling. But the lines do point the opposite direction.

I am just so irate right now after all i went through, i seriously decided at 8pm last night that this date wasnt happening at all, period. I hadn't heard from him a word all week. For all i know he was out of town and forgot about our "tentative' plans.

I realize other people have different perceptions of time, but mine and his clearly differ. And longterm i'm not ok (I cannot be) with someone who is so last minute, my schedule just does not give me that luxury.

I"m not sure what to do but my gut tells me going is a bad idea given my sour sour black mood. I haven't been this upset in months. Really.
 

lucia

visitor
Joined
May 28, 2008
Messages
465
Reaction score
7
Hi Elizabeth

I"m not sure what to do but my gut tells me going is a bad idea given my sour sour black mood. I haven't been this upset in months. Really.

Maybe that is a fruitful route to go for a next question? Maybe to ask: what lies at the root of your feeling so upset about this?

Just a thought....

Lucia
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
Hi Lucia,

I know what lies at the root of this -- i'm strongly attracted to this man, have waited 3 weeks to see him, rearranged my entire schedule and then never heard from him. Now i feel insulted, humiliated, disrespected, and to me now, he is no longer possible "long term" material and i'm not interested in wasting time with someone who isnt (bc i dont have that time to waste)...

Just in case, I did the reading. It gave me hex 12 Standstill lines 4 and 5, and hex 23 Splitting Apart.
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23,644
Reaction score
2,571
Thanks Trojan. I thought that "enthusiasm" was maybe a signal in favor for cancelling. But the lines do point the opposite direction.

I am just so irate right now after all i went through, i seriously decided at 8pm last night that this date wasnt happening at all, period. I hadn't heard from him a word all week. For all i know he was out of town and forgot about our "tentative' plans.

I realize other people have different perceptions of time, but mine and his clearly differ. And longterm i'm not ok (I cannot be) with someone who is so last minute, my schedule just does not give me that luxury.

I"m not sure what to do but my gut tells me going is a bad idea given my sour sour black mood. I haven't been this upset in months. Really.

He didn't forget though did he. Perhaps the difference between you is you had time to get anxious and this has worn you down, while he was always intending to meet you and so was more casual and relaxed about it.

To equal it out a bit you could tell him you'll meet him a bit later, you know put things back on your terms. However the initial reading seemed good to me like he would be someone you'd feel very at ease with (37>2). The 37.3 could indicate its a good idea to tell him you'd prefer more notice in future.

I think you should just have a glass of wine, make yourself gorgeous :flirt: and go
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
Ha i do not think he is casual and relaxed about this for a split second (long story but based on very flirtatious emails prior to the invitation, daily contact, and then NOTHING for 12 days. 12 days when he is not working by the way). But that's another issue.

He needs to give me more notice, without question. This is not acceptable. But i am *very wary* of becoming a doormat to a man who takes liberties...first its a same-day email then its the same-hour email then i get stood up completely. When do you say "no more"? Maybe i'm being too harsh with him ...sigh. I don tnkow.

>>I think you should just have a glass of wine, make yourself gorgeous and go

Heh. (that at LEAST MADE ME SMILE so thank you!) I slept only 4 hours last night and feel HORRIBLE. which is not helping things either... #$%@^&*(!.
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23,644
Reaction score
2,571
LOL well you know more about him than me. I get :mad: with friends who leave me hanging around, i agree it can seem very disrespectful of ones time (yet they don't see it that way) so like you I tend to ditch them if they keep doing it because it can really mess your day up

let us know what you decide to do. Certainly being stood up completely is not acceptable and in the end sure I can see you don't want to signal 'doormat' to him

You could go and say "listen i really don't want to be here, i think you are a total waste of space but people on an I Ching forum have told me to come...and i need to report back to them" :rofl:
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
You could go and say "listen i really don't want to be here, i think you are a total waste of space but people on an I Ching forum have told me to come...and i need to report back to them" :rofl:

LOL. :rofl: actually that is the SINGLE best advice I've heard yet ;)

It gives me an idea too. What if i actually say that (Only i wont mention the forum, but just say "my friends said". I could say it as a joke but i am SURE it would get the point across!!

I have no idea. I physically feel sick about this bc i have been trying (unsuccessfully) to not fall for this man. And somehow in the span of 3 weeks and the previous emails i have fallen inspit of myself. HE HAS no clue about this. And I now feel that i should not be with him, there are signs like this (and other similar "flakey" things) that just to me speak that he's not longterm material. This is sort of a microcosmic example supporting that fear.

I feel torn in half and my heart aches with the realization he's not for me. And so I dont know how to proceed bc i dont feel i can go and feel "happy go lucky shiny pretty girl" tonight bc i'm ripped in half inside now. As stupid and LAME as i know that sounds. I had expectations and basically he failed them...

And i dont feel i can go with the "just friendship" mindset SINCE i am so attracted to him. Which puts me in this weird limbo space -- angry at a potential suitor for failing, and not comfy with acting "just friends" bc my heart is pushing me to be and to request more from him.


You make a valid point about not standing me up entirely; but psycholigically, for me, the outcome is the same. I dont need constant or repeat confirmations but i need to know if a meeting is happening or not. It would have even been OK for him to say "I will confirm with you *on that Saturday morning* when and where we will meet.' FINE. But no, he didnt say that. And the happy-go-lucky social butterfly came in late last night, had brunch this morning with friends followed by shopping and hasnt even SEEN his email yet, approaching 1pm in the afternoon, same day, so what is SHE supposed to think??

This is all just so screwy....:duh::confused::rant:
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23,644
Reaction score
2,571
LOL. :rofl: actually that is the SINGLE best advice I've heard yet ;)

It gives me an idea too. What if i actually say that (Only i wont mention the forum, but just say "my friends said". I could say it as a joke but i am SURE it would get the point across!!

I have no idea. I physically feel sick about this bc i have been trying (unsuccessfully) to not fall for this man. And somehow in the span of 3 weeks and the previous emails i have fallen inspit of myself. HE HAS no clue about this. And I now feel that i should not be with him, there are signs like this (and other similar "flakey" things) that just to me speak that he's not longterm material. This is sort of a microcosmic example supporting that fear.

I feel torn in half and my heart aches with the realization he's not for me. And so I dont know how to proceed bc i dont feel i can go and feel "happy go lucky shiny pretty girl" tonight bc i'm ripped in half inside now. As stupid and LAME as i know that sounds. I had expectations and basically he failed them...

And i dont feel i can go with the "just friendship" mindset SINCE i am so attracted to him. Which puts me in this weird limbo space -- angry at a potential suitor for failing, and not comfy with acting "just friends" bc my heart is pushing me to be and to request more from him.


You make a valid point about not standing me up entirely; but psycholigically, for me, the outcome is the same. I dont need constant or repeat confirmations but i need to know if a meeting is happening or not. It would have even been OK for him to say "I will confirm with you *on that Saturday morning* when and where we will meet.' FINE. But no, he didnt say that. And the happy-go-lucky social butterfly came in late last night, had brunch this morning with friends followed by shopping and hasnt even SEEN his email yet, approaching 1pm in the afternoon, same day, so what is SHE supposed to think??

This is all just so screwy....:duh::confused::rant:

The trouble with interpreting on these shared readings is mostly we simply don't know the background. At a glance I'd say this is someone you feel comfortable with and who you could come to trust a bit more (and its still early days..I mean he needs more time to fall for you doesn't he) but from what you say he really is being rather flakey.., so certainly if you feel you had enough of his behaviour then i wouldn't argue with that. The readings have to be interpreted in the light of the situation as you see it not how i see it.

Sounds like you've fallen for him and you are now terrified/panic stricken/disapointed all in one, very stressful.

Don't know what to suggest. One way or another i think he will get to know of your anger (37.3) whether you go or you don't go. Then its up to him i guess. But i agree theres no use just pretending you want to be friends if you want much more.
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
The trouble with interpreting on these shared readings is mostly we simply don't know the background. At a glance I'd say this is someone you feel comfortable with and who you could come to trust a bit more (and its still early days..I mean he needs more time to fall for you doesn't he) but from what you say he really is being rather flakey.., so certainly if you feel you had enough of his behaviour then i wouldn't argue with that. The readings have to be interpreted in the light of the situation as you see it not how i see it.

I know,it's hard to interpret w/o the full story and this story is a long one. But just to help you (and me), I'll give some more background. I've known this person for over 20 yrs but we were out of touch for 16+ of those (ie met when i was YOUNG and got back in touch about 4 yrs ago or so). We were only friends -- he's older than I am.

About 2 yrs ago we met for coffee, our annual "reunion". I really did not see him or even talk to him that often but once per year we'd get together. Well after one such meeting he asked me flat out (by email) if he asked me out would i be interested. That's what I recall of the email. At the time I was going through some massively stressful huge life changes and could neither focus on his question nor answer it properly. So I did not answer. I also was very put off by the kindergarten nature of "If". It was like he wanted approval and "green light" *before* even asking me out. My gut reaction was "be a man and ask and you'll FIND OUT." Maybe it was wrong of me at the time but again, i was going thru so much, I couldnt even focus on that. But i also recall being annoyed bc we were in separate cites and countries when he asked. What could I say? "sure?" It would not have changed anything at that point. Anyhow: I am certain he took that for rejection. We remained in touch and good friends after that, no harm done. And never mentioned again.

Last fall there was a point at which I was supposed to stay in one level of his house for a time while i was returning to my home city and he seemed very sort of nonchalant about that...didnt care whether i was coming, didnt remember the date I was coming. Flakey. Just plain flakey.

My sister at one point had set up a freelance job for him in another country and again he was flakey about that..and that upset her too bc she had pulled lots of strings to help him and he ended up not going.

Fast forward to this year. We got together again after New Yr's for our annual meeting. Subsequently a flirtatious email, this time complimenting me, very flattering, but very CLEARLY not just friendship. I"m sure he had not forgotten about the initial "email inquiry"from 2 yrs prior. IN any case i found myself attracted to him.

So: there's a history of flakiness. I dont want to encourage it. I dont want to be cruel. I have to set boundaries. But why? Why doesnt a grown man know better? If you're trying to win a lady over, is this how you handle it??

I know i'm prolly overthinking things but...at any rate that's the Whiz Version of the backstory to this.

The problem is now that i find myself attracted to him, i do not WANT to be attracted to him bc of these flaky issues...

Sounds like you've fallen for him and you are now terrified/panic stricken/disapointed all in one, very stressful.

EXACTLY. And how to proceed so *I* dont get hurt (well more than i already am?)

1) Cancelling/not going: sends a clear message.
2) Going will be torturous bc I am so hurt and I will have to hide it. To pretend to be OK when i'm hurt -- and if i show the hurt it will make ZERO sense to him. I have to hide it bc if i dont, he will think its a green light and GIVEN the flakiness, it should not be a green light. Basically I have to be consistent in my signals, but my insides are all conflicted so i dont trust myself to put on an act tonight...

I am trying to figure out if i just have to kill him off inside me or what. That seems the only solution here...
 

beadasil

visitor
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Messages
40
Reaction score
0
Hi Elisabeth

I am new when it comes to the I Ching but just wanted to offer my opinion without looking at the reading. I am in total support of your attitude here. Some people need to learn to respect others' time / schedule and who can teach that to them? :D

I hope things worked out in the end. That is, you followed your instinct and behaved in a way that trained this potential partner to get an insight into how YOU want to be treated from now on.

Sometimes the best way to obtain things is to act like you're on the edge of a cliff with nothing to lose ;) it is hard but you'd feel so much better for it. It usually works for me :)

Good luck to you.

Bea :) xx
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
Hi Beadsil,

Thanks so much for your kind words of encouragement. I sent an email reply telling him that to be honest, I thought he had forgotten since I had not heard from him, and that it is difficult to plan my schedule without advance notice. Period.

Then I added i'm fine with meeting at 6pm today. (because i realized if i do not go, i am going to sit at home and let this FESTER In me and even if we have a blowup it would be better for me in the long run --basically i need to see him period and let what happen, happen).

SO we will see how he replies, if he shows up, how he behaves, if he apologizes and so on. I am trying to regain full composure in the meantime and have about 2 more hours to do so. SLowly the anger is dissipating and I am glad i sent e response rather than waiting longer to do so. A good wise friend counseled me in the meantime, pointing out that He had put the Monkey on My Back and it was up to me to get it off, and to do whatever it took to keep me healthy (ie not angry, not missing sleep, not on edge and nervous). So that was my solution. And i will hope my dull headache is gone by the time our "date" rolls around.

Will update you all afterwards as well... Fingers crossed. Sort of :)
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23,644
Reaction score
2,571
I am trying to figure out if i just have to kill him off inside me or what. That seems the only solution here...

What you said about the length of time you've known him makes the 37 seem apt. i think there is a degree of 'belonging' there, feeling at ease. To 'killing him off inside you' I haven't seen that in the readings but in killing him off you kill a bit of yourself off too (as he seems like kin, 37) so hopefully there is another way.

let us know what happens


if you feel like it of course :D
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
Ok I promised the update, so here goes.

Turns out that he had had some serious health scares earlier this month, which I had known about, but basically they continued during his "week of silence." He went on at length explaining them to me. Bottom line is they did not preclude him from informing me about them *during the week* (altho he did not admit as much) but, they did explain *what* he was preoccupied with, so i am guessing he was either too insecure to tell me OR too absorbed/worried about them to mention them midweek. He also perhaps was unsure how well he would be come Saturday. So in short, I got a reason for his last minute contact. Sort of.

When we met, by some twist of fate, my anger had dissipated so i wasn't rude or mean (thank God). Not that I planned to be, but i was so wound up, i wasn't sure how i could handle the evening. As it was, it was completely natural and normal -- like you mentioned the feeling of "kin", Trojan -- it's almost uncanny bc i never feel so relaxed while on "dates" with someone. Usually I have to explain myself and my interests and my point of view. With him i dont. It saves LOTS of time.

The evening itself was wonderful, and Trojan, I truly owe you for interpreting those hexagrams correctly. I am surprised and humbled by just how wrong I was (but mannnn was I heated up with ire!). I haven't felt that passionately about something or someone in years. THere's some fire as concerns him apparently! It would have been wrong to go or to cancel and i'm exceedingly glad now that i did NOT cancel.

We went to dinner and a performance, and he was showing me off to his friends afterwards, introducing me to literally everyone he knew. I'm not used to such public attention (it was like a party after the show, with lots of people milling around).

The problem is our entire relationship is very strong/close friendship with some flirtation involved, and I"m dying of...longing for him, and he has no idea. Well maybe htat's not a problem, but for me now it is! :)
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23,644
Reaction score
2,571
About 2 yrs ago we met for coffee, our annual "reunion". I really did not see him or even talk to him that often but once per year we'd get together. Well after one such meeting he asked me flat out (by email) if he asked me out would i be interested. That's what I recall of the email. At the time I was going through some massively stressful huge life changes and could neither focus on his question nor answer it properly. So I did not answer. I also was very put off by the kindergarten nature of "If". It was like he wanted approval and "green light" *before* even asking me out. My gut reaction was "be a man and ask and you'll FIND OUT." Maybe it was wrong of me at the time but again, i was going thru so much, I couldnt even focus on that. But i also recall being annoyed bc we were in separate cites and countries when he asked. What could I say? "sure?" It would not have changed anything at that point. Anyhow: I am certain he took that for rejection. We remained in touch and good friends after that, no harm done. And never mentioned again.



...

What I underlined seem the key points. He found it hard to ask you out directly but him saying if he asked you out would you be interested is the same thing virtually as asking you out IMO. I guess you have to put yourself in his shoes, he did feel rejected so now hes cautious about being too upfront understandably...I mean when he did more or less ask you out you didn't say anything :duh: buut its so romantic huh he was there all along and because you knew him for a long time you didn't see him in that way and now.....

Ok I promised the update, so here goes.

Turns out that he had had some serious health scares earlier this month, which I had known about, but basically they continued during his "week of silence." He went on at length explaining them to me. Bottom line is they did not preclude him from informing me about them *during the week* (altho he did not admit as much) but, they did explain *what* he was preoccupied with, so i am guessing he was either too insecure to tell me OR too absorbed/worried about them to mention them midweek. He also perhaps was unsure how well he would be come Saturday. So in short, I got a reason for his last minute contact. Sort of.

When we met, by some twist of fate, my anger had dissipated so i wasn't rude or mean (thank God). Not that I planned to be, but i was so wound up, i wasn't sure how i could handle the evening. As it was, it was completely natural and normal -- like you mentioned the feeling of "kin", Trojan -- it's almost uncanny bc i never feel so relaxed while on "dates" with someone. Usually I have to explain myself and my interests and my point of view. With him i dont. It saves LOTS of time.

The evening itself was wonderful, and Trojan, I truly owe you for interpreting those hexagrams correctly. I am surprised and humbled by just how wrong I was (but mannnn was I heated up with ire!). I haven't felt that passionately about something or someone in years. THere's some fire as concerns him apparently! It would have been wrong to go or to cancel and i'm exceedingly glad now that i did NOT cancel.

We went to dinner and a performance, and he was showing me off to his friends afterwards, introducing me to literally everyone he knew. I'm not used to such public attention (it was like a party after the show, with lots of people milling around).

The problem is our entire relationship is very strong/close friendship with some flirtation involved, and I"m dying of...longing for him, and he has no idea. Well maybe htat's not a problem, but for me now it is! :)

:pompom: :):D:) I'm truly pleased for you ! Re your last paragraph well he must be interested in you or he wouldn't be asking you out would he ? In the light of what he said some time back, you know asking if he asked you out what you'd say, I'd guess he's just protecting himself by playing it a bit cool...so maybe you need to let him know the answer to that question he asked back then was Yes !

So your're still acting like friends ? Hmm well a quick way round that without too much explaining is just to kiss him full on the lips, i doubt he'll resist after the first 30 seconds ;)...
...if he says "Elizabeth what do you think you're doing" you can say "someone on an i ching forum suggested it :rofl: well maybe thats not your style but i guess you may need some way to indicate soon how you feel ?
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
LOL yes. I"m finding this "Someone on a Yi Ching forum said" approach to be quite useful!

I love the cheerleader icon too btw, nice touch :). It made me giggle!

The thing is, *i know i know*, but I am scared of making the first move. I dont nkow why, but i want it to be HIS first move even WHILE i know he already essentially made the first move ( duh Elizabeth) and I 'shot him down' or whatever. Except truthfully in my mind that was not waht i did nor what i intended to do. From my point of view. But i can see it from his POV as well.

That I have to step up my own flirting, no doubt about that. IT just does SO NOT COME EASILY to me! I have friends who do it naturally, they can say "oh in that case, just say this and that to him and smile." And i'm like, "where do you get this stuff?"It just never occurs to me.

I will be pondering ways to show him without the direct kiss... ;-)
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
I have been dying for the forum login to get fixed so I could post this.

Basically I jumped to way too many conclusions on Saturday night. I was pleased to have had the chance to see this man again, to spend time together, and yes we had a good time. However he gave many indicators now that he sees me only as a friend, including one very direct comment to me about another woman, “Those eyes! Aren’t they beautiful.” I said nothing. When we parted, he did not set up another “date” at all. In reply to my thank-you email sent me a 2 word response 1 day later.

In fact none of this hit me until today when I started digesting all of it. I've already fallen seriously for him and it seems he was never sincere in any of his questions to me 2 yrs ago, but more importantly (bc that is water under the bridge now, i cannot expect that those feelings of his still stand)...more importantly, his flirtations of several weeks ago stopped abruptly and I have been silly and stupid to not see what must be the obvious reason why.

"Show me a picture of my physical relationship with him in the next 30 days."
(note: there has been no physical rel'ship to date, but im essentially asking if there will be one)

Hex 2 Line 5 and hex8 [Holding together]. At first I thought this was positive but a friend indicates it is not – that the “aristocratic decency” basically indicates NO physical relationship.

"How does he see me now?" (I asked this on Monday Jan. 25th)
33 Retreat, lines 3 and 5; and 35 Progress. (I take this that I should retreat. The lines are of great concern to me. Other women??)

"Show me what progress comes if I retreat from him."
Hex 36 Darkening Light line 3; and hex 24.

I am guessing this means this "relationship" is not going anywhere. I am not even sure I have a friendship with him anymore. And i have no idea what happened. My heart has just been smattered across the road...
 

gato

visitor
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
620
Reaction score
6
Not related with this topic so is off-topic, please excuse, but what if he is so inspired in this very moment that he is dieing to see you... right now, in this very moment. what if he wants to offer you a moment o joy and enthusiasm which will last only few seconds ?

imo, planing and schedule too much will ruin everything or, at least, make everything dull . inspiration is a wild beast...it comes when it wants to and not on a schedule. sometimes is very relaxing and refreshing to just listen the music.

i'm talking from my point of view here since is very frustrating for me to schedule a date a week before just to find out when the time comes that i'm not in mood for a date.


Hi Elisabeth

I am new when it comes to the I Ching but just wanted to offer my opinion without looking at the reading. I am in total support of your attitude here. Some people need to learn to respect others' time / schedule and who can teach that to them? :D

I hope things worked out in the end. That is, you followed your instinct and behaved in a way that trained this potential partner to get an insight into how YOU want to be treated from now on.

Sometimes the best way to obtain things is to act like you're on the edge of a cliff with nothing to lose ;) it is hard but you'd feel so much better for it. It usually works for me :)

Good luck to you.

Bea :) xx
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
Not related with this topic so is off-topic, please excuse, but what if he is so inspired in this very moment that he is dieing to see you... right now, in this very moment. what if he wants to offer you a moment o joy and enthusiasm which will last only few seconds ?

imo, planing and schedule too much will ruin everything or, at least, make everything dull . inspiration is a wild beast...it comes when it wants to and not on a schedule. sometimes is very relaxing and refreshing to just listen the music.

i'm talking from my point of view here since is very frustrating for me to schedule a date a week before just to find out when the time comes that i'm not in mood for a date.

In answer to your question, my point of view as a rather traditional female is as follows: 1) if a man is that inspired, he will contact you.
2) if he is that inspired, that "passion" will not die down after one day or one week. If it is real passion, if it is genuine. If he truly feels something, you will be able to plan something 3 days or 3 weeks out.
3) if his "joy and enthusiasm" lasts only a few seconds For ME, then i do not want to be with this person bc it is not real.

++

In any case, am still hoping for help with these last few hexagrams...
 

gato

visitor
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
620
Reaction score
6
In answer to your question, my point of view as a rather traditional female is as follows: 1) if a man is that inspired, he will contact you.
2) if he is that inspired, that "passion" will not die down after one day or one week. If it is real passion, if it is genuine. If he truly feels something, you will be able to plan something 3 days or 3 weeks out.


3) if his "joy and enthusiasm" lasts only a few seconds For ME, then i do not want to be with this person bc it is not real.

++

In any case, am still hoping for help with these last few hexagrams...

you're just angry... besides that you just said that this guy passion went off. judging on point 3 you should not ask because he is not real and you do not want . still you ask
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
judging on point 3 you should not ask because he is not real and you do not want . still you ask

I have strong feelings about this person, happen to love him. If you dont want to help, then I am not sure why you are posting (??) I think there are others here who might be willing to help. I would appreciate not being criticized for asking for help. Since that is the purpose of this forum.
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
Reposting the hexagrams again:

"Show me a picture of my physical relationship with him in the next 30 days."
(note: there has been no physical rel'ship to date, but im essentially asking if there will be one)

Hex 2 Line 5 and hex8 [Holding together]. At first I thought this was positive but a friend indicates it is not – that the “aristocratic decency” basically indicates NO physical relationship??

"How does he see me now?" (I asked this on Monday Jan. 25th)
33 Retreat, lines 3 and 5; and 35 Progress. (I take this that I should retreat. The lines are of great concern to me. Other women?? Does this mean he is seeing someone else?

"Show me what progress comes if I retreat from him."
Hex 36 Darkening Light line 3; and hex 24.

Not sure what this last means.
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
23,644
Reaction score
2,571
Reposting the hexagrams again:

"Show me a picture of my physical relationship with him in the next 30 days."
(note: there has been no physical rel'ship to date, but im essentially asking if there will be one)

Hex 2 Line 5 and hex8 [Holding together]. At first I thought this was positive but a friend indicates it is not – that the “aristocratic decency” basically indicates NO physical relationship??

"How does he see me now?" (I asked this on Monday Jan. 25th)
33 Retreat, lines 3 and 5; and 35 Progress. (I take this that I should retreat. The lines are of great concern to me. Other women?? Does this mean he is seeing someone else?

"Show me what progress comes if I retreat from him."
Hex 36 Darkening Light line 3; and hex 24.

Not sure what this last means.

Elizabeth I have really limited function time since I'm ill right now..but you do seem angry with him..yet as he doesn't know how you feel hes not wilfully hurting you is he ? If you are sure he only wants friendship then thats sad for you..but i don't know why it makes you so mad.

Hmm anyway I don't think you should try to draw conclusions too soon with 36.3. Give it time, things can't be settled all at once. I know you aren't in the mind frame to be giving him more time...but there does sound alot of pressure on him to perform a certain way or hes out the door. Someone you feel comfortable with and have a good evening with is still a good thing to have isn't it ? Maybe your agenda is actually getting in your way. 2.5 is about modesty, not pushing things and so on, actually doing well in a less than ideal status position I think. Withthese reading it may be an idea to subdue agendas you have for making progress...hard I know

I hope others can assist further i have to lie down

Take it easy :)
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
Elizabeth I have really limited function time since I'm ill right now..but you do seem angry with him..yet as he doesn't know how you feel hes not wilfully hurting you is he ? If you are sure he only wants friendship then thats sad for you..but i don't know why it makes you so mad.

Hi Trojan,
I am sorry you are not feeling well! Get some good rest and feel better soon. I will send good thoughts and prayers your way. And extra thanks for helping me when you're feeling under the weather ((hug)).

I am not that mad at him now. I'm insulted by what he said bc I guess to me that means he *does* want only friendship. Which (yes) is hurtful precisely bc I wished for more, and his initial indicators implied he did too.

If wants more than friendship, then this behavior reflects on the kind of man he is (Flakey, flirty, not monogamous) , and since I feel such a strong pull to him, i want to overlook and forgive it, but based on my principles and how i feel i should be treated, i dont want to be w/someone who treats me with such disrespect. That's how i feel. We had a "date," and i feel like he took the opportunity to clearly demonstrate it wasnt a date. When I look closely.

Hmm anyway I don't think you should try to draw conclusions too soon with 36.3. Give it time, things can't be settled all at once. I know you aren't in the mind frame to be giving him more time...but there does sound alot of pressure on him to perform a certain way or hes out the door. Someone you feel comfortable with and have a good evening with is still a good thing to have isn't it ? Maybe your agenda is actually getting in your way. 2.5 is about modesty, not pushing things and so on, actually doing well in a less than ideal status position I think. Withthese reading it may be an idea to subdue agendas you have for making progress...hard I know

I hope others can assist further i have to lie down

Take it easy

"less than ideal status" -- story of my life! :p

"subdue agendas" -- not a bad idea. But i'm taking it one step further. I feel I should just move on. He's not interested, or if he is, he is giving SUCH mixed signals that i cannot follow and it's unclear to me. I am already hurt and we haven't even gotten close! How disastrous would it be if I was actually seeing him and he's commenting to me about how beautiful *other women* are?!?! I just... I see these as signs. HE flirted, asked me out...and then when we go out he acts like just a friend. What gives??

Whenever I ask the Yi how I should behave, it gives me the usual "be receptive" (traditional female). So I can't very well go making pronouncements to him til i know for sure how he feels. And actions speak louder than words. And his actions are sending conflicting messages. I am just wondering how many of these "concubines" there are...

If i thought declaring myself to him would help, I might consider doing it. But so far all signs seem to point to "no."...
 

gato

visitor
Joined
Jan 11, 2010
Messages
620
Reaction score
6
one more thing, don't perform divination, toss coins, draw cards when in you are this state of flux. first of all , while in this state, you will hear only what you want to hear. second the emotional impact and programming will be very strong.
balance yourself first (for few days in a row) then toss the coins. <----- this IS help
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
one more thing, don't perform divination, toss coins, draw cards when in you are this state of flux. first of all , while in this state, you will hear only what you want to hear. second the emotional impact and programming will be very strong.
balance yourself first (for few days in a row) then toss the coins. <----- this IS help

Thank you gato. I didnt know about that, but it makes sense...

*Sigh*. I just want this feeling to go *away*. It is horrible.
 

elizabeth

visitor
Joined
Jan 10, 1971
Messages
691
Reaction score
4
Well, 24 hrs later I feel much better. I got some sleep,f or one, and some food, for another, and was distracted all day with a very intense freelance job that came in. Phew. So I have some perspective now. However, I still think there's some massive fact missing or else big miscommunication happened because the overall situation makes no sense. So I wanted to ask the Yi again, and I did so:

Does he want a romantic relationship with me?

47. Oppression, line 2, and hex 45 Gathering together.

That line: One is oppressed while at meat and drink. The man with the scarlet knee bands is just coming. It furthers one to offer sacrifice. To set forth brings misfortune.
No blame.

That's pretty definitively negative.

I backed up and asked about the meaning of his initial flirtatious (ie more than friendship) emails. And the Yi told me Receptive Hex 2, twice unchanging. He was just testing the waters? Or being receptive to me (??) He initiated it so that makes no sense.


I also asked how does he think of me now (today 1/26): Hex 12 Standstill lines 2,3,6; and hex 28.

Line 2: They bear and endure; This means good fortune for inferior people. The standstill serves to help the great man attain success. <--he is pausing?
Line 3; They bear shame. <--what is he ashamed of?
Line 6: The standstill comes to an end. First standstill, then good fortune.

Or maybe it is saying that fortune will come with someone else, but not him?

Any insights would be most helpful.
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top