unconfirmed date, how to proceed?

[elizabeth]

p.s. also asked: What is he afraid of? 28.2.4.6 and 53

Does he want a romantic relationship with *someone*? Hex 35, Line 4: And hex 23 Splitting Apart.

The other answers (reiterated):
Does he want a romantic relationship with me? 47. Oppression, line 2, and hex 45 Gathering together.

How does he think of me now (today 1/26): Hex 12 Standstill lines 2,3,6; and hex 28.

 

[gato]

Elizabeth, what you feeling right now is not love. imo love is warmth. what you feeling right now is only your unsatisfied ego. in time this tends to transform itself in obsession. beware of the trap.

I had a lot of people coming to me in this state and i know no one will listen until is too late but there is a wall ahead of you and you are approaching it full speed. Slow down, vent your emotions, respect his decisions (as part of loving process) and have a little more faith in you. if it is not him there will be another

 

[elizabeth]

Elizabeth, what you feeling right now is not love. imo love is warmth. what you feeling right now is only your unsatisfied ego. in time this tends to transform itself in obsession. beware of the trap.

I had a lot of people coming to me in this state and i know no one will listen until is too late but there is a wall ahead of you and you are approaching it full speed. Slow down, vent your emotions, respect his decisions (as part of loving process) and have a little more faith in you. if it is not him there will be another

Thanks Gato. It feels like my heart is breaking though, it physically hurts not hearing from him. I am trying to slow down and jsut tell myself that it's over, bc that way i can move on and forget my feelings for this man, right? I dont see another approach. I do respect his decisions -- i dont agree with them, but i certainly cannot oppose them. I haven't spoken to him and won't, unless he comes forward (the Yi had told me to retreat, in any case). So I am "retreated now." But I wish I knew what was going on. Am I just misinterpreting things and really everything is fine?? Or is how I feel an indication of reality? I truly feel i'm in the dark on this one.

[ wish I could believe there would be another, but i have a history of very bad luck in love, which makes "finding someone" even more special and exciting. I haven't dated anyone in 4 yrs, not one person, he's the first one (and not sure if this was a date or not). Anyway... I can't believe the "there will be another", as reassuring as it may sound, bc in my experience there have not been. Not being negative here, just realistic and practical.]

 

[gato]

I'm not saying it is over ... you just make a lot of assumptions . one of them would be that he is not interested because he didn't jumped on you on first date. Yet another thing , his comments about other woman , looks to me like he is trying to hide his shame that is unable to advance with you . Maybe you were too stiff or too cold and he didn't knew how to deal with it. Maybe he was as scared of your attitude as you were of his.

I don't want to give you empty hopes and act based on what i said, because ANY move you will be making in this state will be a mistake. Instead try to what others do in this case: eat ice-cream, go with friends, see a lot movies( avoid romantic ones), even try to date other guys (if you say you are so rusty)... then, when you managed to calm yourself look at this relation once again.

And no, is not bad luck, you are just afraid of suffering (like everybody else,).

 

[elizabeth]

I'm not saying it is over ... you just make a lot of assumptions . one of them would be that he is not interested because he didn't jumped on you on first date. Yet another thing , his comments about other woman , looks to me like he is trying to hide his shame that is unable to advance with you . Maybe you were too stiff or too cold and he didn't knew how to deal with it. Maybe he was as scared of your attitude as you were of his.
.

Thanks Gato. My very close friend, who is like a sister to me, is convinced this man has no interest, no *serious* interest in me, and despite all his advances and asking me out, etc, doesnt want anything *really*, in the end. I am very curious if anyone can find indications from these readings that she is wrong .

I don't want to give you empty hopes and act based on what i said, because ANY move you will be making in this state will be a mistake. Instead try to what others do in this case: eat ice-cream, go with friends, see a lot movies( avoid romantic ones), even try to date other guys (if you say you are so rusty)... then, when you managed to calm yourself look at this relation once again. And no, is not bad luck, you are just afraid of suffering (like everybody else,).

I understand - i must calm down and relook at this. I intend to do so. In the meantime, I really would like some help (if possible) *seeing* what the facts/realities are here. Bc I feel as if there is massive wool over my eyes.

 

[jesed]

Hi Elizabeth

I hadn't post in this thread because there is huge risk to be rude; and because gato have given you great comments.

But, since you asked it; I would said:

You made (and still are making) a lot of assumptions about what he intents or doesn't intent. I understand that impulse; but is not a healthy impulse for you. I would advise you don't follow that train of thought.

It is obvious that you are under fear/hurt. But fear is not a good adviser.

I dare to remember you what Wilhelm said about the image of hex 39: Difficulties and obstructions throw a man back upon himself. While the inferior man seeks to put the blame on other persons, bewailing his fate, the superior man seeks the error within himself, and through this introspection the external obstacle becomes for him an occasion for inner enrichment and education.

I'm sure this is not what you wanted when you asked for my comment. I only can say... I'm telling you this with the best intent.

Now... if you still think that I could be of any help for you after reading the above; the I would suggest the following dialogue (in this order)

a) General diagnosis of the relation between X and I
b) Quality of my position within the relationship
c) Quality of X's position within the relationship
d) Best thing for me to do about this relationship

Best wishes

 

[elizabeth]

Hi Jesed,
Thank you so much for the response. I am not offended at all! On the contrary. I know I have made many assumptions but I do not know which ones are correct. I am seeking the truth here, and so your suggestion is very helpful. Thank you.

I followed your advice and these are the answers the Yi gave me:

General diagnosis of my relationship with him: 16.5 and 45.

What is the quality of my position within the rel’ship with him? 15.6 and 52.

What is the quality of his position in our relationship? 57.1 and 9

What is the best thing for me to do about this? 48.5 and 46.

I added one more question, based on suggestion from Autumn way back when:
What should I embrace? 21.2.5 and 10.

Of this last, Biting Through, I found the following on this forum: As a rule, 'Biting Through' is something you do, not something that happens to you. It always indicates that there is a problem to be tackled, and usually you are the one who needs to get your teeth into it. The basic pattern of this hexagram, which you can understand at all levels from personal to social, is the presence of some obstacle to unity, like something tough between your teeth. It may be some deception or a third party keeping a relationship apart, or some obstacle such as self-deception dividing you from yourself: in all cases, it has to be bitten through to restore wholeness and make things work again.
Ironically, finding the truth is my whole goal in all of this.

Do I remain in the background, drop back and disappear, and let him be the man and take the reigns, and pursue me? or do I jump forward and suggest a meeting?
I will leave off my interpretations of the hexes above bc am interested what others see here. ie how promising or not, is this.

 

[elizabeth]

Anyone?

 

[bamboo]

General diagnosis of my relationship with him: 16.5 and 45.
Is he a chronic flirt with commitment problems? sounds like it

What is the quality of my position within the rel’ship with him? 15.6 and 52.
Too good for him. You have a right to want more than what he offers and to ask for it.
What is the quality of his position in our relationship? 57.1 and 9
He doesnt know if he is coming or going. commitment problems noted again.
What is the best thing for me to do about this? 48.5 and 46.
Know your own worth and worthiness. Its there, and you are capable of attracting the love you want and of giving the love that you have within. You can act on this.

I added one more question, based on suggestion from Autumn way back when:
What should I embrace? 21.2.5 and 10.
Embrace the truth. Dont shrink from it. Let the truth determine your conduct with him from this point forward.

 

[elizabeth]

Thank you bamboo, for the reply. This has been a tough week to say the least.

General diagnosis of my relationship with him: 16.5 and 45.
Is he a chronic flirt with commitment problems? sounds like it

*This is something that I have not truly been able to judge well at all, to date. I also highly highly doubt it is the case with him for a number of reasons. He says he wants to find "her", the one, etc...So here I am. It's not clear if he will "bite" or not, and I guess that is what it is coming down to. As soon as I make it known I"m receptive to his flirtation, does he continue or pull back? Last week was strange behavior in deed.

It makes me sick to think this might be true though.

Is there any OTHER Possible interpretation of these two hexes? Bc this is the crux of the problem, if indeed there is a problem. Could this at ALL be seen as he is *afraid*, and that if shown he isnt going to get hurt, things will work out? My past experience with commitmentphobes is that it is a conscious awareness they have about themselves, but hide from others. If he is afraid of commitment, I dont think he has consciously recognized it in himself yet...

What is the quality of my position within the rel’ship with him? 15.6 and 52.
Too good for him. You have a right to want more than what he offers and to ask for it.

Hm.. Does he know this, i wonder? And again, how do we know that's the case? I've looked up to him for quite some time --he's intelligent and seems to be caring. But I don't know him as a "relationship" just as a friendship, so ... i dont know.

What is the quality of his position in our relationship? 57.1 and 9
He doesnt know if he is coming or going. commitment problems noted again.

That makes sense given last week. Doesnt make sense in the overall context of the messages he has sent me. What he wants from me, if anything, at this point, is not clear...

What is the best thing for me to do about this? 48.5 and 46.
Know your own worth and worthiness. Its there, and you are capable of attracting the love you want and of giving the love that you have within. You can act on this.

I added one more question, based on suggestion from Autumn way back when:
What should I embrace? 21.2.5 and 10.
Embrace the truth. Dont shrink from it. Let the truth determine your conduct with him from this point forward.

*sigh*. Is this the truth? Is the Yi wrong? I Mean, can these interpretations be seen in any other way? The problem is I dont know how to behave bc i dont feel I have the full truth or can see it yet. It's all sort of hypothetical, based on Yi readings so far... By the same token I do not want to get burned......

 

[jesed]

Hi Elizabeth

Just in case the comment could be useful

General diagnosis of my relationship with him: 16.5 and 45.

Both 16 and 45 are in the past. That is very bad sign. When one gets the 2 hexagrams in the past, is like someone who has lost the contact with the present and the reality. Delusion; nostalgy.

I would say: Something has happened in the relationship between August 1st and September 15th, 2009 that hurted the relationship. It is something that both of you maybe don't want to discuss or recognize. But has a great influence until present day. Whatever it could be, is like a illness to the posibility to achieve reunion. However, the relation is not dead. The Yijing says: "[he] will survive"

What is the quality of my position within the rel’ship with him? 15.6 and 52.

You are pondering about the relationship. You want to find balance and stability. And you don't want to make any movement about it, but being still.
The Yijing says "the will is not fullfiled yet". You are not getting what you want.
Later interpretations (I mean, not Yijing, but other commentarists) says 15.6 is an advise to don't blame the others, but examinate ourselves and take the initiative to correct us and reach the others.
Ricardo Andree says that 15.6 implies the need to self-examination about our own moods and states of mind that lead us out of balance.

What is the quality of his position in our relationship? 57.1 and 9

He is traying to understand and adapt himself to the circumstances of the relation. He wants to progress and advance, but not in a forceful and straightforward fashion, but in a gentle and subtle way (maybe too much subtle).
The Yijing says: "[he] has doubts in his mind" This is not much as lack of commitment (the yijing talks about the loyalty of a warrior), but as doubts on the way to proceed.

With the above 3 answers, you have a "map", where something has hurted the relation. Because of that, he wants to advance, but has doubts and takes only tiny steps; and you don't want to take any step at all. But, this is important... the relation is not dead, and still have the chance to survive.

What is the best thing for me to do about this? 48.5 and 46.

get deeper and achieve a higher perspective. There is clean water... it's up to you to reach it or not.

best wishes

 

[elizabeth]

Jesed, thank you so much! I am jumping up and down and giving you a big hug, out of joy.

(Yes, the comments were very useful!) I am so happy from the hope I read here, you have no idea!

It is interesting the Yi says the relationship is injured but not dead. I think, upon reflection that makes sense, is accurate, and in some ways is how it feels to me too.

From August to September 15 I was supposed to actually stay in his house -- I had moved back from living abroad. At the last minute my parents intervened and I have been in another apartment. I did not see him then, in August, or at all in the fall. Could this mean he was disappointed due to this? Or maybe just disappointed he did not see me soon after I arrived? The stress of the move was incredible and I didnt see any friends in that first month, it was all about moving boxes and storage, and job hunting...a big mess, with my mother in the middle. I am curious though why or how he could be hurt from me NOT staying with him. I was sure..that he did not care. This is the only thing I'm aware of during that timeframe. If there was something else I did or said, I'm not aware of it.

You are pondering about the relationship. You want to find balance and stability. And you don't want to make any movement about it, but being still.
The Yijing says "the will is not fullfiled yet". You are not getting what you want.
Later interpretations (I mean, not Yijing, but other commentarists) says 15.6 is an advise to don't blame the others, but examinate ourselves and take the initiative to correct us and reach the others.
Ricardo Andree says that 15.6 implies the need to self-examination about our own moods and states of mind that lead us out of balance.

I had presumed the state of unbalance is because I have strong feelings, but feel I cannot show them. I dont want to show them bc I do not want to be pursuing him now and scaring him off. I know it may sound silly but it is a great fear of mine. Also previous Yi readings kept saying standstill... i took it to mean i SHOULD be still rather than that I WAS being still. But more on this in a bit.

He is traying to understand and adapt himself to the circumstances of the relation. He wants to progress and advance, but not in a forceful and straightforward fashion, but in a gentle and subtle way (maybe too much subtle).
The Yijing says: "[he] has doubts in his mind" This is not much as lack of commitment (the yijing talks about the loyalty of a warrior), but as doubts on the way to proceed.

THat makes sense; his messages have been very mixed. It seemed he was pursuing then stopped. Then we saw each other and all was fine. THen i hear nothing...

He had offered to show me somethings and I took a gulp and sent him an email today after a four day silence. He replied saying he could meet me Saturday or Monday night. I will go on Saturday... i cannot wait until MOnday But I am confused as to how to act, how much emotion to show. So many people (And i thought the Yi too) had said he was a flirt or commitment phobe. I am very afraid he is just "all words" and no substance. But I can't get rid of this feeling. I cant seem to find it in myself ot just bury it all and forget him and move on, so i figure I have to see this through to whereever it is going, and do what i can, participate when I can, and see what happens...

What is the best thing for me to do about this? 48.5 and 46.
>>get deeper and achieve a higher perspective. There is clean water... it's up to you to reach it or not.

The clean water, meaning purity of sorts in his intentions? I Hope?

I am so afraid that he will be cold to me when we meet. I figure I could try to flirt and be affectionate without saying (in specific words) how i feel. I dont know if that's the best tactic but it is what comes to mind.

With the above 3 answers, you have a "map", where something has hurted the relation. Because of that, he wants to advance, but has doubts and takes only tiny steps; and you don't want to take any step at all. But, this is important... the relation is not dead, and still have the chance to survive.

Yes, this is important! This is the most important part of it all!!

Again thank you Jesed. A huge huge thank you!

 

[gato]

Both 16 and 45 are in the past. ......
I would say: Something has happened in the relationship between August 1st and September 15th, 2009 that hurted the relationship.

is this you intuition/inspiration or something you can tell from the above hex? do you any links which might provide further info on time aspect of the readings ?

 

[jesed]

is this you intuition/inspiration or something you can tell from the above hex? do you any links which might provide further info on time aspect of the readings ?

Hi gato

Hope this can be useful for you
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=259

Best wishes

 

[elizabeth]

Hi Jesed,
A quick question -- how can we ask about the future with the Yi? I asked straight out what my future was with this man and the yi said 41.1.4.5.6,>47. Which sounds positive (?) until you hit 47 (Ak!). So I am wondering if this is a miscast somehow... I asked about my upcoming meeting with him and the reading was very favorable. I am trying to recall -t he Yi can only refelect the current state of affairs so i wonder what it was answering with the 47 really.