What caused myself and X to fall out?

[heritage]

Hello members,
I had previously casted a reading aimed at finding answers for how I could reconcile with someone.
The thread is here:

How do I convince X to forgive me

Dear all, hope you're all doing well. Any guidance you could afford would be appreciated. I have a dear friend who I have upset but she will not tell me the reasons why and I am only left to speculate for the reasons. This is friend of mine is also someone I have romantic feelings for. (We were...

www.onlineclarity.co.uk

One of the posters in that thread suggested that I start with a more foundational question such as asking why the person isn't speaking to me.

I have thought it wiser to ask "What caused myself and X to fall out?" as it seems more complete of a question from an intuitive perspective at least.

Background:
I have a dear friend who I have upset but she will not tell me the reasons why and I am only left to speculate for the reasons.
This is friend of mine is also someone I have romantic feelings for. (We were first friends and roommates, then friends and colleagues). She was working at my company but has since resigned on the day we fought and I had upset her.

I have tried to apologize, for the sake of our friendship, plus convince her not to resign, however I am not having any tangible success getting through to her.

Question: "What caused myself and X to fall out?"
Answer received: 38.1.6 to 40

I think the answer I'm being provided by the Iching describes what has happened, what I should do, and what will come. I don't think the answer actually explains the cause as I had asked; though I don't think that is such a problem here as my mental and emotional preoccupation is concerned with reconciliation. And so I think the Iching is giving me what I want to hear and not going into the minute details.

Resulting Hex 40: Eliminating Obstacles, Release, Liberation, Release of Tension
I think this Hex is describing what I need to do and also what is to come...
I need to let go off this issue, stop trying to act to solve and then in time the situation will be resolved.

Hex 38 (Opposing, Mutual Alienation, Separated, Disharmony):
This hex aptly describes the current situation between myself and X.

Line 1:
I think this line speaks to my exhaustion, I've apologised as much as I really can. At this point in time I need to let X go, and just know that X will return. In terms of the reference to engaging with evil in this line. I think this could be taken as something like, don't let yourself be affected by negative thoughts at this time or people.

Line 6:
Would love to hear everyone's thoughts on this line.
But I think this line speaks more to X's position. I am seen as a devil or pig etc. I'm seen as an enemy. However X in time realises that I have been misjudged and the matter is reconciled between us.


So my conclusion is: Just don't worry about doing anything to resolve this matter. Let X return when ready after they've had some space to realise the value of the relationship.

Anyone else have any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[breakmov]

Hello heritage

Question: "What caused myself and X to fall out?"
Answer received: 38.1.6 to 40

It seems to me (I apply it to my questions!) that creating a "Common Space for an answer" where Yi answers the situation present in that space would be something more "productive".

I imagine "That Space" as a Space where all the dynamics unfolded and that led to the question formulated by you - In that space is you, is the other person, the dynamics created between the two, and that "flavor created" in the whole situation between the two.
"That Space" is a point of view from above that tries to look at the situation objectively and impartially as a whole .
-And the answer given (38.1.6>40) is an answer to "That Space", for you to ponder from a higher point of view (the Noble man).

38.1.6>40
"two different ways of thinking that have not been able to agree on something in common. "Letting it all go" would be a way of relief about all this."

line1: at the beginning of a situation where there are different points of view, it would be beneficial not to advance so eagerly with the discordant points of view, and to be careful not to create an antagonistic disposition right from the start.

Line 6: "things got ugly and unproductive". The different points of view, with that well marked antagonistic disposition that "excludes any beauty" that might exist in the other party that has a different point of view.

breakmov

 

[Trojina]

I have answered the original query you linked to here which asks you basically to stop trying to make her forgive you.

I have thought it wiser to ask "What caused myself and X to fall out?" as it seems more complete of a question from an intuitive perspective at least.

When you have lines 1 and 6 changing it's a 27/28 change pattern so something has reached a culmination, it's a situation where all the nourishment has been taken in from the primary, here 38 and the relating hexagram comes to the fore, here 40.

It looks very much like a misunderstanding doesn't it with these lines in 38 - you viewing the situation in totally different terms from one another and when I say 'different' in 38 it's so different it can be hard to imagine the other's seemingly very weird pov. This cast makes me think this won't be too hard to clear up once the misunderstanding is out of the way(40)

I wouldn't normally say this but also the cast makes me think of gossip, other people telling her things you said and things like that, I get that from line 1. Is it worth talking to other colleagues to see if they have a clue about what was said?

I think often with such misunderstandings time is the best healer as in you cannot convince her because you may not know what was said and so you have to wait for her to figure it out for herself that you didn't do whatever it was. I can't be sure this was the result of gossip but to me it does look like a classic case of petty misunderstandings than can be let go of.


I think therefore this is a hopeful answer but I also don't think you need to apologise further. I think in line 1 you could talk to the 'hateful people' - those at work or elsewhere that may have knowingly or unknowingly caused misunderstanding between you.

So my conclusion is: Just don't worry about doing anything to resolve this matter. Let X return when ready after they've had some space to realise the value of the relationship.

I think your conclusion is correct.



In the other thread I had begun by thinking it possible she just doesn't want to be friends any more but this answer does make it seem far more reconcilable. Nonetheless as you said let her come to her senses in her own time. You can't do more at this point.

 

[heritage]

Hello heritage



It seems to me (I apply it to my questions!) that creating a "Common Space for an answer" where Yi answers the situation present in that space would be something more "productive".

I imagine "That Space" as a Space where all the dynamics unfolded and that led to the question formulated by you - In that space is you, is the other person, the dynamics created between the two, and that "flavor created" in the whole situation between the two.
"That Space" is a point of view from above that tries to look at the situation objectively and impartially as a whole .
-And the answer given (38.1.6>40) is an answer to "That Space", for you to ponder from a higher point of view (the Noble man).

38.1.6>40
"two different ways of thinking that have not been able to agree on something in common. "Letting it all go" would be a way of relief about all this."

line1: at the beginning of a situation where there are different points of view, it would be beneficial not to advance so eagerly with the discordant points of view, and to be careful not to create an antagonistic disposition right from the start.

Line 6: "things got ugly and unproductive". The different points of view, with that well marked antagonistic disposition that "excludes any beauty" that might exist in the other party that has a different point of view.

breakmov

I love this analogy of space. So the Iching can give you answers that may not be directly related to your question but will be more helpful for you to grasp/make sense of given your current circumstances?

 

[heritage]

I have answered the original query you linked to here which asks you basically to stop trying to make her forgive you.


When you have lines 1 and 6 changing it's a 27/28 change pattern so something has reached a culmination, it's a situation where all the nourishment has been taken in from the primary, here 38 and the relating hexagram comes to the fore, here 40.

It looks very much like a misunderstanding doesn't it with these lines in 38 - you viewing the situation in totally different terms from one another and when I say 'different' in 38 it's so different it can be hard to imagine the other's seemingly very weird pov. This cast makes me think this won't be too hard to clear up once the misunderstanding is out of the way(40)

I wouldn't normally say this but also the cast makes me think of gossip, other people telling her things you said and things like that, I get that from line 1. Is it worth talking to other colleagues to see if they have a clue about what was said?

I think often with such misunderstandings time is the best healer as in you cannot convince her because you may not know what was said and so you have to wait for her to figure it out for herself that you didn't do whatever it was. I can't be sure this was the result of gossip but to me it does look like a classic case of petty misunderstandings than can be let go of.


I think therefore this is a hopeful answer but I also don't think you need to apologise further. I think in line 1 you could talk to the 'hateful people' - those at work or elsewhere that may have knowingly or unknowingly caused misunderstanding between you.

I think your conclusion is correct.



In the other thread I had begun by thinking it possible she just doesn't want to be friends any more but this answer does make it seem far more reconcilable. Nonetheless as you said let her come to her senses in her own time. You can't do more at this point.

Thank you very much for your reply, Trojina! I read both of your messages.

This cast makes me think this won't be too hard to clear up once the misunderstanding is out of the way(40)

This is reassuring to hear. My challenge is in how to clear this misunderstanding up. And it sounds by the advice of this hexagram as well as by what yourself and others are saying is that the misunderstanding is cleared up by letting go of the matter. Is that correct? Because, at least for now, I've exhausted all the apologies I can text or email etc.

I wouldn't normally say this but also the cast makes me think of gossip, other people telling her things you said and things like that, I get that from line 1. Is it worth talking to other colleagues to see if they have a clue about what was said?

I have been thinking about this gossip angle -- did you raise this because of the mention of 'evil people' in the first line? I am pondering if gossip could have been at play here but I am unsure. Perhaps in her own personal life people had been saying things about me that caused this seemingly crazy event.
I had also though that perhaps this particular reference in the line was telling me to avoid negative thoughts/people at this time?

I think therefore this is a hopeful answer but I also don't think you need to apologise further. I think in line 1 you could talk to the 'hateful people' - those at work or elsewhere that may have knowingly or unknowingly caused misunderstanding between you.

I might try this, i just can't suspect anyone that may have gossiped with her about this. Do you think it might be worth casting another hexagram to see if this was the case?

Line 6 also suggests that even if let's say this fall out was due to other people/gossip, she would realise of her own accord that whatever negativity she held for me was unwarranted?

Thank you!!

 

[Trojina]

This is reassuring to hear. My challenge is in how to clear this misunderstanding up. And it sounds by the advice of this hexagram as well as by what yourself and others are saying is that the misunderstanding is cleared up by letting go of the matter. Is that correct? Because, at least for now, I've exhausted all the apologies I can text or email etc.

Remember whilst I said it looked like a misunderstanding it may not be. In the other thread I also considered she is using this as a way to get distance generally. I really don't know and neither does anyone else except her herself. Yi isn't a basis for finding facts in a situation.

The only useful thing Yi can really tell you is what you best do/not do and there seems nothing left for you to do.

Although are you quite sure you have offended her? I will go back to the other thread to re read it because I mean with 38 people can have such widely diverging views on a situation you could be going an entirely different track to her. Like maybe she doesn't even think there's a problem at all?

I have been thinking about this gossip angle -- did you raise this because of the mention of 'evil people' in the first line? I am pondering if gossip could have been at play here but I am unsure. Perhaps in her own personal life people had been saying things about me that caused this seemingly crazy event.
I had also though that perhaps this particular reference in the line was telling me to avoid negative thoughts/people at this time?

I raised it partly because of lines 1 and 6, the possible crossed wires of 38 and also just a feeling possibly due to the fact in the other thread you said she had left the workplace, a communal environment where others would surely also have some idea about why she left and what was going on there.

In a close friendship we generally are not going to just believe second hand reports of what our friend said, we would go direct to the friend and she hasn't done that. She has shown no willingness to build any bridge at all. As far as I recall she is just not replying to you. That could be for a number of reasons besides her being mad with you.


Line 1 isn't telling you to avoid 'hateful people' it says you can talk to them.

'Regrets vanish.
Lost horse, no running after it, it returns of itself.
See hateful people,
No mistake.'

Nothing there about avoiding the negative, there is 'no mistake' in seeing hateful people. Generally this tends to me people you have negative feelings towards at the time.

I might try this, i just can't suspect anyone that may have gossiped with her about this. Do you think it might be worth casting another hexagram to see if this was the case?

No. Asking the I Ching is not a way to find out facts and whether there was gossip or not cannot be ascertained as a fact through any answer. No answer can tell you factually 'yes there was gossip'. If you want facts you need to use fact finding methods. If you don't think there was gossip there probably wasn't it was only a suggestion of mine given this happened in a work place.

Line 6 also suggests that even if let's say this fall out was due to other people/gossip, she would realise of her own accord that whatever negativity she held for me was unwarranted?

Mostly it's a mistake to ask questions about what other people think and feel. Much better to ask from your own standpoint then you know who the answer is about. I'd take it the 38.6 is about you - that you discover what you see as a dark event is not.

 

[Trojina]

From the other thread you said

She was working at my company but has since resigned on the day we fought and I had upset her.

You must know what the fight was about surely as you were there fighting. So why are you asking here what caused the fight, you already know surely?

One of the posters in that thread suggested that I start with a more foundational question such as asking why the person isn't speaking to me.

Well it's because of thing you were fighting about.

 

[breakmov]

heritage said:​

"I love this analogy of space. So the Iching can give you answers that may not be directly related to your question but will be more helpful for you to grasp/make sense of given your current circumstances?"

I imagine that before any question, there is always an attempt to navigate "This Space" looking for "the why of things" and then a question that helps to advance in this navigation.
And this space is something basic and that precedes all the questions you can ask about this space.
You can imagine this space as a physical object, imagine a cube, which you have in your hand and you can rotate it from all possible angles, with all the resolution you want..wide rotation, finer rotation, an infinity of points of view different on this same cube.

-all the questions you can imagine and ask "about this space" (this cube) will always be an attempt to see and know this cube through this new angle of vision (the new question).

You asked 2 questions about the same situation (the same cube) and they both show something in common that pertains to this situation:

- something happened that tested the limits of your long friendship, and now you can't do anything concrete about "that something" that has already happened.

- Of course, it also shows that now you know what can be tried and what cannot be done in this friendship of yours

... the test of limits.

"a "stone" thrown, which unintentionally broke a glass window"

"a slow accumulation of weight on a rope that can hold 100 kg but in no case can hold 500 kg"

" or the culmination of a "speech", in a phrase said and that can no longer be unsaid"

I wonder what led your friend to such a sharp demarcation... it's almost like a "slamming on the door" on "that something that happened"?
.... it's almost as if she has been (now and for quite some time) indirectly telling you: our friendship is based on "this reality" and the limit is "this border" - don't go beyond it! ...maybe if you keep in mind the cause of this situation and guarantee that there will never be this "going over the border" again, maybe there will be room to bring your friendship to life.


breakmov