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"What do you think is the Beatles' best album?" 42.6>3

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deflatormouse

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This is just for fun and practice. I chose the Beatles for their ubiquity and popularity: I figured most people would be at least somewhat familiar with the Beatles.

So my first thought was 'Help!' (3 relating: "needing assistance"), they never improved on it because after that, they got too overambitious and experimental and so were prone to self-indulgence and inconsistency. This is challenging the general consensus about Beatles records, but it is a very strong record and chronologically the most mature of their earlier work, the last one to follow on their initial sound before they brought in the sitars, ditched the simple boy-meets-girl lyrics and launched into the stratosphere. Makes a lot of sense as Yi's favorite Beatles album (or their "best" as in most accomplished work irrespective of personal preferences or biases, depending on how you look at this).

The other possibility I see is 'The Beatles' (white album), which I personally think is their best album - a sprawling, disjointed (inconsistent!) collection of tracks, the point where they cut out the production wizardry that had been building and building on their previous few records, and where each individual member just beginning to branch out on their own, laying the groundwork for their solo records. It doesn't seem very Yi like, however, to suggest that anyone is stronger individually than collaboratively... so my money's on 'Help!'

I think safe to say it isn't Sgt. Pepper or Revolver which are probably their most acclaimed albums in the US and UK respectively. Just because it has much clearer ways of saying those things :p
And given the Yi's aesthetic of simplicity, this would make sense...

Anyone else care to weigh in??
 
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rosada

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3. Are you crazy?
Ahem, excuse me...
Are you confused?
Who can say?!!!
"Best" in what way?
What are the criteria?

42.6 The IChing has absolutely nothing to gain and everything to lose by voicing an opinion on this!
 
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deflatormouse

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream." - John Lennon on authoring the lyrics to 'Help!'

I think this economy of language, the direct and straightforward tone and ambiguity of meaning reflect the Zhouyi's aesthetic rather nicely, actually.

Or it could very well be saying we have nothing to gain from asking questions like this, sure, and that had occurred to me. And that's what I like about the question, it's of no real consequence to anyone, just an opportunity to work collaboratively with a reading that doesn't have any impact on myself or someone else. But now that i see the response I think there may be an oppotunity to understand better the likes and dislikes of the Zhouyi. If one were to make an offering to a spirit. One might one to know what qualities it appreciates... Different Beatles albums reflect different qualities, characteristcs and ideals in different porportion, so here is an oppotunity to understand which of these attributes Yi values. I think it is saying that ther's nothing to be gained from this, actually, as well as what its favorite Beatles album is-if music journalists (and everyone else) are allowed to voice opinions on this stuff, and frequently do... why nott Yi?

Two ways to think of "best" in this context: personal favorite, or most accomplished. I saw it as the same as asking anyone else what their favorite Beatles album is: And this does not assume, please keep in mind, that the person (or articulate genius consciousness machine) being asked particularly likes the Beatles, nor does it ask what they think of the Beatles. The Beatles' albums are only being discussed relative to each other. I'm not a fan of George Lucas but if prompted I would express a preference for 'American Graffiti' over 'the Phantom Menace' - that's according to my criteria, it is debatable- 'Phantom Menace' is a lot more popular (and probably cost a lot more money and took a lot more hands to make). So, Beatles albums according to Yi's criteria and preferences. I suggest 'Help!'
Maybe I'm crazy.

Edit: maybe it's something like "Not that it's any of your business/not that it matters, but my favorite Beatles album is 'Help!'"
 
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rosada

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I was trying to be amusing - suggesting you asked a question so profound, so fraught with subtleties that even the I Ching dare not attempt to answer.
 
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deflatormouse

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Oh dear, i completely missed that... Internet... So hard to read tone, my apologies. That is actually really funny :rofl:
 
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deflatormouse

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I think the Beatles make a good case study here not only because of their ubiquity but because although the arc of their work shows a distinct and ambitious evolution followed by an abrupt return to their origins, it doesn't have anything like the range of, say, Shakespeare's output. They are consistent enough in their attitude and overall tone from album to album that we're not comparing comedies to dramas, apples to oranges.
 
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Hey jude

Hexagram 42 Increase to 3

Hexagram 42: Increase
Statement: Increase. Gain by having a place to go. Advance across the great river.

Line 6 comment: No increase when someone attacks. Setting the heart without constancy: misfortune.
The image Wind and thunder: increase. The noble one sees perfection and shifts to fit its pattern, and corrects his own faults.

Hexagram 3: Sprouting
Statement: Sprouting begins everywhere, abundant and pure. No need to go far: gain by naming allies.

Line 6: his heart is not constant and he is attacking himself , he is burdened, thus he cannot increase . He must correct his faults

Hey Jude, don't make it bad (SELF TORMENT; CORRECT FAULTS)
Hey Jude, don't be afraid (FEAR)
And anytime you feel the pain, hey Jude, refrain (PAIN)
Don't carry the world upon your shoulders (BURDENED)
For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder (COLD; INCONSTANT -- BOTH PAIN AND COLD)
You were made to go out and get her (CROSS THE GREAT STREAM)

HEXAGRAM 3
Sprouting begins everywhere, abundant and pure. No need to go far: gain by naming allies.

Remember to let her into your heart (OPEN, SPROUT)
Then you can start to make it better (START)
You were made to go out and get her (YOU DON'T NEED TO GO FAR)
The minute you let her under your skin (SHE IS NEARBY)
Then you begin to make it better (BEGIN)
So let it out and let it in, hey Jude, begin (BEGIN -SPROUT)
You're waiting for someone to perform with (NAME ALLIES)


Lyrics

Hey Jude, don't make it bad
Take a sad song and make it better
Remember to let her into your heart
Then you can start to make it better

Hey Jude, don't be afraid
You were made to go out and get her
The minute you let her under your skin
Then you begin to make it better

And anytime you feel the pain, hey Jude, refrain
Don't carry the world upon your shoulders
For well you know that it's a fool who plays it cool
By making his world a little colder
Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah

Hey Jude, don't let me down
You have found her, now go and get her
Remember to let her into your heart
Then you can start to make it better

So let it out and let it in, hey Jude, begin
You're waiting for someone to perform with
And don't you know that it's just you, hey Jude, you'll do
The movement you need is on your shoulder
Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah nah yeah

Hey Jude, don't make it bad
Take a sad song and make it better
Remember to let her under your skin
Then you'll begin to make it
Better better better better better better, oh

Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
Nah nah nah nah nah nah, nah nah nah, hey Jude
 
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Extra Credit:
Which hexagram corresponds to which Beatles Song?



We Can Work it Out
Penny Lane
When I'm 64
Yellow Submarine
Roll Over Beethoven
P.S. I love you
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds



Etc Etc
 
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When I'm 64

Hmmm.... would it be 64 itself? or Hexagram 4 (a youthful folly question?)
or 63 (aspirational , about to be 64)?

Great Question, deflator mouse

With a Little Help from my Friends 39.5
 
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deflatormouse

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When I'm 64?
I think of 50.3 - when the ding handles break, rendering the ding is useless and immobile... How are we gonna eat the pheasant? (who will feed me?)

I don't much like the sound of "When I'm Not Yet Across." I'd prefer to think of old age as something more than waiting to die :rolleyes:
 
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D

deflatormouse

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For Hexagram 63... I would say maybe 'In my Life'?

I mean, they have a song called 'The End' but thinking about it just a little tiny bit more deeply than the titles...

53 is probably 'The Long and Winding Road,' though
 
D

deflatormouse

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"No one I think is in my tree
I mean it must be high or low
That is you can't, you know, tune in
But it's all right
That is I think it's not too bad"

Always, no sometimes, think it's me
But you know I know when it's a dream
I think I know I mean a yes
But it's all wrong
That is I think I disagree"

The 47 of 38. The Labyrinth of Solitude. Strawberry Fields Forever.
All he has to do is come down from his damn tree...
 
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When I'm 64?
I think of 50.3 - when the ding handles break, rendering the ding is useless and immobile... How are we gonna eat the pheasant? (who will feed me?)

I don't much like the sound of "When I'm Not Yet Across." I'd prefer to think of old age as something more than waiting to die :rolleyes:

I see what you mean about 50.3

I favor hexagram 4 (for When I'm 64) -- (it's also less age-ist) because the question about whether love can last even when you're so "old" as 64 becomes naive or "youthful folly"

Hexagram 4: Youth
Statement: A youth must be steadfast. I do not seek the naive youth. The naive youth seeks me. At the first divination, I explain, but after three times, it is irritating. Annoyed, I explain no further. Nevertheless, a gainful omen.

The youth is naive, asking, "will you still love me when I'm 64?" The youth sees 64 as so old.
 
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"No one I think is in my tree
I mean it must be high or low
That is you can't, you know, tune in
But it's all right
That is I think it's not too bad"

Always, no sometimes, think it's me
But you know I know when it's a dream
I think I know I mean a yes
But it's all wrong
That is I think I disagree"

The 47 of 38. The Labyrinth of Solitude. Strawberry Fields Forever.
All he has to do is come down from his damn tree...


I've never had a clue what the lyrics to Strawberry Fields meant. It seems like you really get it!
So you mean a combination of 47 and 38?
 
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Hexagram 64 : Hello, Goodbye

Hello Goodbye indicates the circular nature of the Oracle, whereby "goodbye", the last hexagram (64) gives way to 1 (the first, Hello), in a cycle, just as hello gives rise to Goodbye
 
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For Hexagram 63... I would say maybe 'In my Life'?

I mean, they have a song called 'The End' but thinking about it just a little tiny bit more deeply than the titles...

53 is probably 'The Long and Winding Road,' though

53: The Long and Winding Road makes sense - -because it finally "leads to your door" (but it would be nice if a mountain were involved).

63: Yes, Already Across , right?
"And these memories lose their meaning
When I think of love as something new"
 
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Hexagram 31 : P.S. I love You (or: I wanna Hold your Hand)

As I write this letter
Send my love to you
Remember that I'll always
Be in love with you
Treasure these few words till we're together
Keep all my love forever
P.S. I love you
You, you, you
I'll be coming home again to you, love
And till the day I do, love
P.S. I love you
You, you, you


Hexagram 44: Lovely Rita
(attraction to a bold woman, an encounter)


Lovely Rita meter maid
Lovely Rita meter maid

Lovely Rita meter maid
Nothing can come between us
When it gets dark I tow your heart away
Standing by a parking meter
When I caught a glimpse of Rita
Filling in a ticket in her little white book
In a cap she looked much older
And the bag across her shoulder
Made her look a little like a military man

Lovely Rita meter maid
May I inquire discreetly (Lovely Rita)
When are you free to take some tea with me? (Lovely Rita, maid, ah)
Rita!

Took her out and tried to win her
Had a laugh and over dinner
Told her I would really like to see her again
Got the bill and Rita paid it
Took her home I nearly made it
Sitting on the sofa with a sister or two

Oh, lovely Rita meter maid
Where would I be without you
Give us a wink and make me think of you (Lovely Rita meter maid)
Lovely Rita meter maid, Rita meter maid (Lovely Rita meter maid)
Oh Lovely Rita meter meter maid (Lovely Rita meter maid)
Ah da, ah da (Lovely Rita meter maid)

[Leave it.]
 
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Hexagram 52 : the Fool on the Hill
"Alone on a hill
The man with the foolish grin is keeping perfectly still"

We Can Work it Out : Hexagram 11
(I think, or maybe 58?)

Penny Lane : Hexagram 10
(walking on a lane)

Roll Over Beethoven : Hexagram 51
(lots of shocks, like thunder)
You know, my temperature's risin'
And the jukebox blows a fuse
My heart's beatin' rhythm
And my soul keeps a-singin' the blues
Roll over Beethoven and tell Tchaikovsky the news

Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds : Hexagram 34
(actually, the words are very surrealistic, but somehow the image is vigorous)
 
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steve

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I think the Fool on the Hill could relate to 12 or possibly 20
 

Sixth Relative

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From all their albums, no one is better to cross the great sea than the Yellow Submarine. I'm kidding, critics rightly crushed it
:D
 
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I see what you mean -- though it would be nice to have "mountain" involved, since the Fool is on the Hill. I thought of 52 because it's double mountain and represents stillness (the fool is silent).

I think the Fool on the Hill could relate to 12 or possibly 20
 
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I was thinking about Yellow Submarine. We need a hexagram that has to do with being under water, don't we? (This gets addictive! The Beatles I Ching).


From all their albums, no one is better to cross the great sea than the Yellow Submarine. I'm kidding, critics rightly crushed it
:D
 
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deflatormouse

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I've never had a clue what the lyrics to Strawberry Fields meant. It seems like you really get it!
So you mean a combination of 47 and 38?

Yeah, 47 with 38 relating? Or the other way around...
Oh, that might be my favorite Beatles lyric. It's about the loneliness of being a "thinking different" person or going against the grain.
"No one i think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low" = nobody understands me, nobody is on my wavelength so i guess that means i'm either brilliant or defective, genius or crazy. If you read the song that way the words aren't really that surreal or anything.
If Strawberry Fields is his own little world or bubble... 47 is that imprisonment of one's own making. The "Forever" part - the "to hell with all you guys, I'll never turn Greek! Spartan for life!!" That title and refrain- "Strawberry Fields Forever!" is the stubborn and rip-roaring celebration of, and the misguided pledge of loyalty to an estranged and utterly defeated nation (identity and ideology)- population one. Which doubles as the tragic sentencing of himself to life imprisonment. Such a sad title- it describes that experience of knowing you're defeated and alone, yet deluding yourself with pride and clinging to what isn't real, and so not sustainable. All he has to do is climb down, agree not to disagree. "but i don't know, maybe they're the ones who are all wrong. And besides, that's looking kinda far and it's not too bad up here on my own, maybe, sometimes..."

I wasn't just thinking of the words, either... I think 47 > 38 captures the musical "strangeness" and the overall feeling of inescapable, delirious isolation. Musically it's disjojnted, charachterized by harmonic asymmetry and unpredictability, with the chord changes often falling just shy of where the ear expects them to (this last thing being a musical fingerprint or signature of Lennon's).. And the two sections of tape stitched together, one sped up and the other slowed down... Fire and water wanting to connect, but pulling apart at the seams. Very 38...

Edit: for those not aware, the two halves of the song were recorded in two different keys, so in order to crate a continuous piece of music from the two different takes, producer George Martin sped one up to sharpen (increase) the pitch, slowed the other down to match, and stitched the two tapes together to create the Frankenstein's monster of a recording that we all know. This is the splitting image (pun entirely and unapologetically intended) of 38, isn't it? And while it *kind of* works, if you ever thought the recording has a kind of uneasy or 'seasick' quality, that's the reason... You're not hearing any of it at the pitch or speed at which it was performed and recorded, and there's a point where it suddenly shifts from a sped up tape to a slowed down one. It's definitely a little wobbly. The first half of the song needs to be slower and flatter. The second half needs to be faster and sharper. But they're bound together, creating 38
 
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deflatormouse

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Norwegian Wood - 54 (it's about an extramarital affair).
For 44 I would have gone with something more explicitly about copulation without ronance- Sexy Sadie or Why Don't we Do It in the Road...Probably Sadie because she's seductive but ultimately makes a fool of everyone.
 
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steve

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Yes 52 would work for fool on the hill

Steve
 

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