Who will be President of the United States?

[mulberry]

I've felt a sense of peril about this election for months now. Brexit was an ominous sign (UK and US politics have a long history of twinning idealogical shifts and movements-- Thatcher/Reagan, Blair/Clinton and Blair/Bush...etc.) Trump is crazy like a fox and has beat every adversary put before him. Clinton's always been a weak candidate, particularly against a populist. But if she doesn't win... oh, it's bad. I've lost sleep. The RNC earlier this summer had me pacing the living room in angst...

My own readings, since this inauspicious 9/11 memorial (could her collapse have come at a more symbolic moment? Dreadful, and it feels fated...)

Will Clinton be president?
64.1.3 -> 14
Whenever I see 64, it's a signal a decision hasn't been made yet. It also holds the promise of some kind of journey being initiated and completed, of leading chaos into order. Line 1 shows clearly that she pushed too hard; whatever this illness is, she gambled and lost in trying to push through it quickly. She's been a hard candidate for me to warm up to, and yet she really got my sympathy for this. She's trying so very hard...I couldn't watch that clip more than once, it felt too sad and upsetting. The fox getting its tail in the water for sure. Humiliating. Line 3, she's lacking the strength to get across the water, and needs to call on helpers, advisors. She needs a new strategy and a different approach.

14 as the background/result gives me some hope that she'll pull through this and win decisively. Any other takes?

I also asked for a picture of Trump's chances to win, and unfortunately got 27.6 -> 24. The sage gets across the water, and reaches a turning point. It makes me quite queasy.

 

[mulberry]

Re: assassination...I asked for a picture of Trump's risk and Yi replied 2.1.4 -> 51. Yikes! Perhaps the oracle is just reflecting back my own perception, as this is an acutely close read of what I was already feeling intuitively. I agree his risk is more establishment (military). He's shown no willingness to be obedient to the power structures already in place. But they wouldn't try anything until he was actually elected; no use before that. Line 1 of 2 shows how he's alienated wide swaths of the establishment...the strong ice will come by and by. And in line 4, he's all tied up and powerless. Out of options. Leading to a shock.

I haven't done a reading on Clinton and this topic. Not sure I'm ready for that yet. I think she has a far greater risk than Trump of an attack from a lone assassin or fringe group, and in greater risk overall. The amount of vitriol and pure hatred she's aroused is harrowing.

 

[mirian]

Will Clinton be president?
64.1.3 -> 14

Things don't look too good when we put this reading together with another one posted on this thread.
"Is Clinton going to walk into the White House as a President?"
Hex 50.3 > 18

As for Trump, just a thought about Hex 2 line 4, "a tied-up sack", so whatever comes out of it is anyone's guess isn't it.

 

[steve]

I have yet to see a clear reading that depicts one winner

 

[canislulu]

In response to Trojina's comment.

Well I don't see how anyone sane can like what he's planned which is why it's so shocking that so many American people support him. Unbelievable...

Yes, it is shocking and unbelievable. Many Americans are trying to understand it. What Chris Hedges says makes sense to me. For example, in this next video link I share he states, "Donald Trump is responding to a phenomenon... he is not the phenomenon." I post it here in case people find it informative. I wish everyone would watch this and take it seriously.

[video=youtube;9dGpHCOshIQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dGpHCOshIQ[/video]

Perhaps we don't see a clear winner yet because everything is in a state of change and uncertain.

 

[steve]

Total state of flux, in Australia i remember hearing the saying one day is a long day in politics, let alone an election for the USA. Its good point as the Yi is constantly about change and how to deal with it. Earlier here in the thread was a reading TimK did and Trump would have won had the election been held then and mine was similar, then you ask the same question next week and its Clinton, all I know there is going to be a showdown

Steve

 

[mirian]

Steve, I asked today if Clinton is going to win and guess what hexagram I got. Exactly.
Hex 25 un. Either the Yi is saying "this is none of your business" (fair enough) or "expect the unexpected".

 

[steve]

yes i would take it as expect the unexpected considering my reading and I think TimK had a reading where something may happen also. Cant remember if anybody else did. Personally I think she will have to resign one maybe because of health or the DNC know they are going to lose and will need another candidate, So crazy they could have smashed it with Bernie Sanders, her campaign has been so weak didnt hold a press conference, she is hiding from the tough questions, its a joke the dnc really are delusional if they think she will win, its a total disaster the only think she has left are the die hard fans thats it. Why did it have to be clinton? , why not sanders?, because its tied to wall street and corporate interests that want things to stay as they are, they have gambled or been to confident that she would win. I could see this coming really, and there were a few others on you tube that did also. i knew she was unfavourable

Steve

 

[soshin]

Appreciate all of your insights.

I asked the following question:

What is the dao of the US after the 2016 presidential election?

I asked this way mainly because it is not a yes/no question, and the Dao of the US will be greatly influenced by who will win the election, so there should be an indirect answer to who will win it hidden in it.

44, 2, 3, 6 to 45

I´d like to leave it to you to interpret it until I found the time to do so myself. I already stumbled over the "the woman is powerful, do not take her" line. But you should go deeper:

This "woman" has more power than any system where you might try to contain her. She might bring desires that undermine a well-balanced life, or an irruption of feeling into a realm of abstractions, or chance and irrationality to threaten a logical, ordered mind.

Sounds more like Mr. Trump to me.

 

[mirian]

What is the dao of the US after the 2016 presidential election?
I asked this way mainly because it is not a yes/no question, and the Dao of the US will be greatly influenced by who will win the election, so there should be an indirect answer to who will win it hidden in it.
44, 2, 3, 6 to 4.

Karma springs to mind. The hexagram that speaks of dangerous liaisons cannot offer prospects of a good dao. Anyway, I am not sure that the answer to who will win is "hidden in it". I tend to see the changing lines as several levels of challenges, several choices that Americans will face in the post-election years. All these challenges and choices being around the dark elements that have surfaced during the campaign. It is now clear that Trump's rethoric resonates with a large amount of the population, and whether or not he is elected this is not going to go away.

 

[diamanda]

What is the dao of the US after the 2016 presidential election?
44.2.3.6 > 45

Lots of good stuff for the insiders (the rich?) but not for guests (the poor? or immigrants?) (44.2).
Someone with stripped buttocks but still walking - financial crisis? abolition of death penalty? (44.3)
Locking horns - more wars? (44.6)
45 - the United States will just go on as United States.

Maybe, just maybe, no matter who is elected for president, the US will just go on as usual.
The hint is there of course for "not marrying the woman"... but as Mirian points out this particular question might well have nothing to do with who wins the elections.

 

[mirian]

Just another thought to add. Wilhelm does translate hex 44 as "Coming to meet" doesn't he? So it looks like Americans are getting straight into meeting powerful and dark forces that might have been underestimated.

 

[mulberry]

Soshin, thank you for this question and casting. I have been struggling with how to phrase a similar question, without knowing it, and your post was a breakthrough for me. Thank you Mirian and Diamanda for weighing in...I agree with your interpretations. As I posted earlier, I can't shake the feeling we're in some kind of great peril here in the US. The feeling is rational—Trump's dredged up repugnant elements and allowed racism to reach a level of social acceptability it hasn't had in decades—plus, the idea of him having nuclear weapons and the ability to start wars is horrifying—but my feeling also has the deep, intuitive, uncanny quality I've encountered a few other times in my life, that usually isn't linked to so-called rationality. A gut feeling, so to speak. And that feeling persists even when I picture Hillary winning. I feel we're in grave trouble. As Mirian pointed out, "It is now clear that Trump's rethoric resonates with a large amount of the population, and whether or not he is elected this is not going to go away." That rhetoric is seductive and dangerous...it can' t be naively played around with without consequences (44). "Powerful and dark forces" that have been underestimated, as you put it, Mirian.

I did my own casting with the question, "What is America's fate in this election?" and I'm sorry to say I received 58.3.6 -> 1

Coming joyousness, misfortune. Seductive joyousness. There's that "seductiveness" again, echoing 44... And Hex 1 appears. I think some kind of great power is amassing, ready for transformation and release. But 58.3.6 shows it's being born from permissiveness towards destructive, dangerous forces.

The 58.3.6 reading also seems to me to be showing the role of the media in all this... they think they can play around with Trump's entertainment value (ratings! clickbait!), and indulge fascistic rhetoric, without consequences. But there are already terrible consequences, and there will be more...

 

[steve]

Line 44. 6 I think there will be some crease's to iron out, I think missing line 5 is interesting i have found this line very favorable, but in the reading i feel skipped almost

58.6 is illusion similar to the way 44 can be

Like the magician you can see what see and hear what you hear but only the performer knows. Or should i say the actors, in this dark play.

The problem is some of the techniques are coming to light , and the crowd is talking


Steve

 

[diamanda]

I did my own casting with the question, "What is America's fate in this election?" and I'm sorry to say I received 58.3.6 -> 1
Coming joyousness, misfortune. Seductive joyousness. There's that "seductiveness" again, echoing 44... And Hex 1 appears. I think some kind of great power is amassing, ready for transformation and release. But 58.3.6 shows it's being born from permissiveness towards destructive, dangerous forces.
The 58.3.6 reading also seems to me to be showing the role of the media in all this... they think they can play around with Trump's entertainment value (ratings! clickbait!), and indulge fascistic rhetoric, without consequences. But there are already terrible consequences, and there will be more...

Mulberry I agree with your interpretation and comments.
It's really sad that the US has to choose between two candidates who are both dodgy.

I had a look again at the original post of this whole thread:

Will Trump be our next President: 41.1-4
Will Cruz be our next President: 61.2.6-3
Will Hilary be our next President: 10.1.4.5-4
Will Bernie be our next President: 41.1.3-18
.

Trump and Hilary both had 4 as resulting hexagram - "not known yet" (back in April), but the 'duel' was already hinted at. Cruz, resulting 3 = turned out that no, and Bernie resulting 18 = turned out that no. Very interesting that I also got resulting 18 in my reading about if Owen Smith was going to win the Labour leadership (he lost).

 

[diamanda]

I don't think the Yi answered your question... Hilary and Trump both resulting in 4 tells me that it will be the two of them battling it out, Hilary getting there just narrowly through tough competition from Sanders, Trump slagging in the polls. I think it just said that it will be down to the two of them, going by the reading.

Ah, I see now that tidalwave already beat me to this observation, and a long time ago!

 

[mirian]

I did my own casting with the question, "What is America's fate in this election?" 58.3.6 > 1

It does fit completely as my experience with 58.6 is exactly that: you are now depending on fate! This line is saying that things have just been left unchallenged, a lack of decision and/or discernment, all resulting in no control over what happens next, fate has taken over.

Diamanda, I totally agree that both mainstream options are dodgy. How things have come to this point? Well, both hexagrams 44 and 58 give us a glimpse into the process.

 

[diamanda]

I've read the whole thread and I (like many others) can't see either Hilary or Trump looking very victorious.
Which is very odd, given the fact that the media are all about them two only.
Then again, I've witnessed the media falling flat on their faces on other elections/referendums...
US politics are so confusing. And it seems that there are dozens of other candidates (see here).

Hilary & Trump - will the next president be one of them? 24.1.5 > 8
Return from a short distance, and with a kind heart. And 'union'.
I don't know how the US system works - is a coalition a possibility or not?
I'll take the whole answer as a 'no', not one of them. Neither has a kind heart.

And just for argument's sake, as I didn't see any casts about him:
Will Darrell Castle be the new president? 8 unchanging
Errr....? union again? can it be even remotely possible?
Except if it means he will simply do well 'locally' at Tennessee and remain 'locally'.

 

[mulberry]

It does fit completely as my experience with 58.6 is exactly that: you are now depending on fate! This line is saying that things have just been left unchallenged, a lack of decision and/or discernment, all resulting in no control over what happens next, fate has taken over.

That's a really good insight. I hope we manage to pull through with the less bad option.

Diamanda-- I agree, neither Hillary nor Trump seems to be getting auspicious castings. Your question was interesting, though the chance of a third party winning is basically impossible due to the electoral college (US political system that assigns vote counts based on the vote tallies, but is distinct from the popular vote. Sometimes they don't align, and you get what happened in 2000: Gore won the popular vote (the greatest number of votes overall) but Bush "won" the election (or rather, the Supreme Court case around voting problems in Florida...sorry for the digression). Castle (who, I should mention, I've never heard of!) isn't on the ballot in all states, so is highly unlikely to get far. And he's based in Tennessee, which will go to Trump no matter what...his presence there doesn't influence how the state will turn out, like, say, Johnson in Colorado or Stein in Florida will,

The strongest third party candidate is Johnson...followed by Stein. But neither has the numbers or recognition to win.

Thinking about your reading though, and the "kind heart," I thought of Hillary's running mate, Tim Kaine. The media narrative about him is anchored around him being kind, compassionate, a defender of poor people... But for him to assume the presidency, Hillary would have to step down (highly unlikely) or die/be incapacitated (something I hate dwelling on, as it spooks me...)

 

[diamanda]

Castle (who, I should mention, I've never heard of!) isn't on the ballot in all states, so is highly unlikely to get far. And he's based in Tennessee, which will go to Trump no matter what
(...)
Thinking about your reading though, and the "kind heart," I thought of Hillary's running mate, Tim Kaine. The media narrative about him is anchored around him being kind, compassionate, a defender of poor people... But for him to assume the presidency, Hillary would have to step down (highly unlikely) or die/be incapacitated (something I hate dwelling on, as it spooks me...)

Mulberry thanks so much for clarifying these crucial points.
Rethinking the 8 in this light, it might mean that it won't be one of the two, but one "close" to them.
So perhaps Tim Kaine is a possibility.
One of us here will have to muster the courage to ask this question at some point!

 

[leighl]

Hi all,

I am very new at this but just wanted to add what I cast after watching the debate tonight because I find it incredibly interesting...

Will HC be the next president of the US? 25UC.

Without entanglement.
Creating success from the source, constancy bears fruit.
One who is not upright commits blunders,
And it is fruitless to have a direction to go.'

Will DT be the next president of the US? 51UC

Shock, creating success.
Shock comes, fear and terror.
Laughing words, shrieking and yelling.
Shock spreads fear for a hundred miles.
Someone does not lose the sacred ladle and libation.'

 

[steve]

That reading i would think trump,

 

[diamanda]

Wow, the divination plot thickens!

Will HC be the next president of the US? 25UC.
Will DT be the next president of the US? 51UC

It's not the first time on this thread that we see a 25 for Hilary and a 51 for Trump:

Steve, I asked today if Clinton is going to win and guess what hexagram I got. Exactly. Hex 25 un.

Re: assassination...I asked for a picture of Trump's risk and Yi replied 2.1.4 -> 51 *

I'm convinced now that it won't be Hilary. Too many negative casts about her.
25 speaks of something unexpected due to a fault or error of the person.
The 'unexpected' will be a result of her own actions.

I'm not very certain it will be Trump either though.
51 is a shock which comes from outer sources, i.e. in his case it won't be him causing it.
By nature, 51 is impossible to pinpoint. A shock is a shock, and divination can't reveal it.
Which is why I don't think he'll be the winner either.

At the moment they are the only two contenders.
If either of them got the presidency, it would be neither unexpected, nor shocking.
Hence I don't believe any of them will be the next president.

* 2.4 - a body bag? Of course I hope not, I wouldn't wish that on anyone - but just a thought, which I hope proves completely unfounded.

 

[mirian]

[

QUOTE=mirian;230927]just a thought about Hex 2 line 4, "a tied-up sack", so whatever comes out of it is anyone's guess isn't it.[/QUOTE/]

Just to add that 2.4 can also represent the unknown and/or unexpected.

 

[steve]

I watched an interesting video if i find it will post but it was basically saying that Trump has a clear path to winning. It wasnt based on the US polls it was based on a UK betting site. The main stream media is telling people what want it wants them to hear, its not as close as people may believe. Betting sites are built so they win. Thats why i am wondering if she may step down, as the DNC would know the truth.

So would she, just wonder when the reality will set in.

Steve

 

[mulberry]

Although I worry I'm beginning to test Yi's patience with repeated questioning (is a reprimanding hex 4 on the way for me?), I went ahead and asked, post-debate, about each candidate's chances.

You know that spine tingling feeling that happens when the I Ching is...well, uncanny?

Will Hillary be president? 55.3. -> 51

Will Trump be president? 51.1.5 -> 45

I'm still processing these castings, especially in light of how much they align with what others on this thread are receiving (even 45, which was also the resulting hexagram of soshin's cast about the Dao of the US following the election). The line from 45, 'The king enters his temple,' is alarming in the context of Trump. And both lines 1 and 5 from 51 are auspicious-- a shock leading to good fortune (but for whom?).

55.3 from the cast for Hillary speaks to illness and eclipse. Broken arm = something is not working, she's impeded in some way... No blame = it's not her fault? Or she can't help it?

In my own life, I've discovered 51 appears consistently right before a sudden shock. When some difficult things were happening at my organization, and I queried Yi regularly about coming developments, 51 was a tipoff that another earthquake (or aftershock) was shortly to arrive-- usually in less than a week.

 

[mirian]

Is Clinton going to walk into the White House as a President?
Hex 50.3 > 18

So you asked if Clinton will be president and got 55.3 > 51 and that makes an interesting analogy with the reading above, cast a couple of weeks ago.

Hex 50 line 3 being translated as a cauldron with some sort of malfunction (handles altered? removed?).
Then Hex 55 line 3 uses the imagery of a "broken arm".

Either way, something or someone that is not fully operational.

 

[steve]

I was thinking maybe something shocking or undeniable maybe in wikileaks where she clinton may have to resign, it will be to overwhelming maybe, its possible because a new candidate may save the Democrats thats possibly why we are not geting clear readings, something like that. Then new candidate would win and trump would lose. Other than that its a trump victory, the democrats would know how much trouble they are in by now. The ones at the top.

Steve

 

[soshin]

I was thinking maybe something shocking or undeniable maybe in wikileaks where she clinton may have to resign, it will be to overwhelming maybe, its possible because a new candidate may save the Democrats thats possibly why we are not geting clear readings, something like that. Then new candidate would win and trump would lose. Other than that its a trump victory, the democrats would know how much trouble they are in by now. The ones at the top.

Steve

I am not sure that it would be so easy to nominate a new candidate. Early voting already started. If Mrs. Clinton would become incapitated I am pretty sure Mr. Trump would win.

 

[soshin]

I asked the Yi again. This time with the question:

Please characterize Hillary Clinton.

34 no changing lines.

And: Please characterize Donald Trump.

21, 1,3,4. to 52.

While the main problem of Mrs. Clinton seems to be to learn how to use her power wisely, Mr Trump seems to be, well, a person with a more complex task .

Would love to learn from your insights. :bows: