...life can be translucent

Menu

Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings, Hexagram 14

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,633
Reaction score
1,962
Just heard a little bit of the recording of Karcher Hilary just 'released' and one thing he said early on was something like he felt Yi "always spoke in pairs". I just noticed that particularly when looking at hex 11 and hex 12 unchanging so wondered if I'd see it with hex 13 and hex 14...where the relation between them as a pair isn't so clear to me.


Anyway in terms of my own experiences and understandings with 14 unchanging I think it's often been an answer of "yes you have", quite simple. Having. I have known it as simply that way...or sometimes it's been like a very clear "you have" when I have been more focused on what I don't have. I think I have read often on this forum how often hexagram 14 can show up when people actually feel they have nothing ! I know I have received it at such times.....with hindsight I see I did have alot....wealth not being just money. With hindsight I could also see there was much potential I wasn't immediately aware of at the time.

When I cast 14 unchanging now I often tend to take it as a signal to be aware of what I do have, to appreciate what I do have and also what I do have to give.


In readings for others again it seems to come up when they think they are very much lacking but in actuality have wealth of many kinds or the capacities to prosper far more than they can see just at that moment.
 

meng

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
36
14

Always feels as though Yi is patting my back gently, and saying "there, there". Because I typically receive it when I feel sorta worthless.

I think one significant way 13 pairs with 14 is that the wealth of 14 isn't in ones self alone, but is "heaven spread upon all the earth". (gosp of Thomas).

Another is the connotation we tend to give 13, that it relates to people only, since that's how it literally translates. But I feel it has more to do with relatedness. So, if looked at as, I am related with or in heaven, and mine is therefore spread out upon all the earth, then great indeed is my possession.

My greatest single experience with 13 was in answer to my question: Why do you bother with we humans?

The trigrams reversal of heaven and fire illustrates two moving in the same direction: upward. They are related.
 

chingching

visitor
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
53
Meng that reminds of the scene in madmen where dons friend draws the world tarot card for him in a reading and says how it means that we are all part earth , fire, water and wind and then she says something like " I think it means that the only thing that keeps you separate is the belief that you are alone"

And somehow that makes me think of the well and how it is sad when we don't draw water from it, or lose the ability to. We, ourselves and our relatedness to this world and all within it is a big asset. Just some food for thought, doesn't exactly help bridge 13 and 14. What 13 always reminds me is no man is an island.

I also breathe a sigh of relief when I see 14, reminds me that I am enough. I heard these lyrics in a song on the radio today " you have everything you need, look around you, it won't get any better." everything of value is already in front of you, for you to have. The other day I harvested sea weed at the beach to eat for dinner, I get figs, blackberries and fennel from a gully nearby, herbs from the garden etc. these are the community's greatest assets.

Added: oh and I haven't read the thread on 13 but thought I'd add that even if you were stranded at sea, all alone then died you would still be apart of the fellowship of mankind, being under the same sky and all, just more physical distance than usual, a hint of the wide open fields of line 6. And you still 'have' even when stranded alone, like in the life of pi.

Or like Mary Oliver's well known poem http://www.bemindful.org/poems.htm#Anchor-1177
 
Last edited:

meng

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
36
even if you were stranded at sea, all alone then died you would still be apart of the fellowship of mankind

Had to chuckle a little at this, CC, as one would certainly be apart from mankind in the middle of the sea alone. When my ashes are scattered at sea, I'll fellowship with the fishes. As Jackson Browne wrote, "in the end there is one dance we'll do alone."

tonight%20he%20sleeps%20with%20the%20fishes.jpg
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,633
Reaction score
1,962
My almost tactile sense of how 13 and 14 make a pair is somehow along the lines of 13 being general where 14 is particular. Hexagram 13 unchanging feels to me like a backdrop, the scenery from which I emerge and blend with or fit into or find a place in. Hex 14 unchanging feels more where I become aware of what I am and what I have in particular as an individual. That's just my feel of it at the moment...just an individual impressionistic sense of the pair....like I was groping them blindfold with gloves on.. hmmm

With hexagram 13 unchanging I might be experiencing being no one in particular, one of the species not in a negative sense but that's bought to awareness. With 14 is the sense of possession, of what I possess and Am.

Karcher says of this pair in 'Total I Ching' , "Harmonising people means making the connections. The Great Being gathers the crowds."

Hmmm 13 'We Are', 14 'I Am' ?




In the I Ching Workbook by R L Wing 13 is called 'Community' and 14 is called 'Sovereignty' , I quite like that as a title for 14. Otherwise I like the words 'Big Having' for 14

What chingching said "I also breathe a sigh of relief when I see 14, reminds me that I am enough" well that is knowing sovereignty, knowing that as much as you are part of everything else also you are enough. This does not need to give rise to self inflation....it's just 'how it is' ( oh and hex 15 is the next hexagram....)


The I Ching Workbook is the only Yi book I know that gives a particular significance to each of the hexagrams in their unchanging form so I thought I might quote from it for each hexagram. I don't necessarily think these have any validity but they seem worth noting as ideas about hexagrams in what Wing calls their 'static form' .

She (I think Wing is female ?) says of 14 uc

"In it's static form, the hexagram SOVEREIGNTY demands a firm adherence to your principles regarding the object of your enquiry. There should be no dogma or pretension in your words, ideas and convictions. Absolute clarity of mind combined with strength of character will give you the integrity necessary to accomplish your aim and continue past this time. If SOVEREIGNTY becomes institutionalized, it loses direction"
 
Last edited:

meng

visitor
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
1,257
Reaction score
36
If

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you, but make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting, or, being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don’t give way to hating, and yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise;

If you can dream, and not make dreams your master;
If you can think, and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster and treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken, and stoop and build ‘em up with wornout tools;

If you can make one heap of all your winnings and risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings and never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew to serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you except the Will which says to them: “Hold on”;

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue, or walk with kings, nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you; If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute with sixty seconds’ worth of distance run
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it, and, which is more, you’ll be a Man my son.

Rudyard Kipling
 

chingching

visitor
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
53
Perfect for the image of 14. Especially if you had consulted for some advice. Not just you are sovereign, but please choose to be that way too. To have sovereignty over your own actions and character. And being that way rewards itself, no certificate or mercedes benz for it, which alludes to line 6.

I can't help but recall an ad we had here once ( and have an eerie feeling I've written about it in clarity before) where there is a high fence with a small hole in it and a person walking by. You could hear a crowd of voices coming from the other side of the fence but you couldn't see them and they were chanting " 13, 13 , 13 , 13 , 13". And then the passer by looks through the small hole to see what's going on, and a finger jutes out and pokes him in the eye, then the mob starts chanting " 14, 14, 14, 14, 14. " tehehehe.
 
Last edited:

hilary

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
16,574
Reaction score
2,007
I've seen an example of 14 unchanging somewhere - maybe in a ffarington-Hook book? - as an an auspice for buying a car - excellent purchase.

No personal experiences with it in the last several years.
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,633
Reaction score
1,962
I wrote in wiki about getting 14.3 for buying a car which proved to be the best car I ever had, wondered if you were thinking of that or maybe Ffarington Hook also had a 14 car experience....

...just checked she did indeed buy an excellent secondhand car as I did and she got 14uc.

Hmm well 14 is good for second hand cars then ! :D
 

chingching

visitor
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
53
I've had it a few times for purchases, most recently for an artwork I couldn't afford and was worried I bought out of some bourgeois need to prove my sophistication, open-mindedness and a need to seem cool. It hasn't arrived yet but receiving 14uc made me feel confident it was a worthwhile purchase. But I do think its value is in how much I'll love it, I don't believe it has a higher re-sale value and on top of that I know its not one of the artist's better or more widely known pieces. (he is not very well know but has a dedicated cult following.) But he has OCD and the creative manifestation of that is his photo realistic pencil drawings which are slightly surreal, but oh so hipster and 'hot right now'. So that outsider art aspect is of great value to me... and it takes him 6 months to finish a drawing so I now own 6 months of his time. lol.
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,633
Reaction score
1,962
Quoting directly that example from Ffarington Hook on 14uc

The purchase of a second- hand car was contemplated. After selecting a particular model, the I ching was consulted as to the possible wisdom of such a choice.

Answer 14uc

Interpretation

This is one of the easiest cases I have ever had to deal with as regards interpretation. I only wish they could all be as simple and clear, as the answer is locked in an excellent hexagram.

Outcome

The car was immediately bought and was a great success, running for years with the minimum of trouble. Eventually the owner decided to move overseas, and on finding the cost of transporting the car would be prohibitive, had decided reluctantly to sell it. Because of it's excelllent history and condition, and despite the high mileage which had accrued, it was sold on the same day as advertised for an exceedingly good price considering it's size.


and quoting from me in wiki


For example I asked about buying a very cheap car I needed, got 14.3, bought the car and found it the most reliable car I've ever had. It rarely needed repair, never let me down and when things did start going wrong after some years and it wasn't worth repairing I still managed to sell it back to the garage I bought it from for a good price and put the money towards another car. Effectively the car itself hadn't really cost me anything very much at all.


okay I got line 3 moving not 14uc (and I think the line 3 was re my fears at the initial outlay) but both examples have the same flavour

I think the more one appreciates what one has in 14 the more one gets. I think I waxed lyrical about that car probably the same way in the past people would describe how they once had an exceptionally fine horse , worth it's weight in gold....


Worth it's weight in Gold suggests it exceeds even what is expected through ongoing appreciation of the item/person/animal/gift (hmm not that we can possess people exactly or even animals.).but anyway appreciation enhances wealth of any kind many times over.


chingching

But I do think its value is in how much I'll love it, I don't believe it has a higher re-sale value and on top of that I know its not one of the artist's better or more widely known pieces


hmmm yes the more you love it the more valuable it is but I also reckon you might find eventually effectively it cost you nothing, that it won't decrease in value anyway.
 
Last edited:

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,633
Reaction score
1,962
The connection between 13 and 14 does seem clearer to me , there's no possessing (14) without sharing (13) and vice versa I supppose....there's only riches in what passes along....cars, paintings, people, horses, houses.....
 

chingching

visitor
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
1,369
Reaction score
53
Just slightly off topic, brain Arnold calls 14 self-determination in his yijing app. I Never thought of it that way before.

But that absolutely fits for a cast I did recently which yielded 14 uc on how I can create a more expansive social life in light of mostly working all the time. social activities don't flow for me like they used to, I would always unknowingly end up at a party or invited to an event. Recently I've found I have to search out something that interests me and decide to go to it, often alone and it takes great determination for me to do it because I get a bit shy going places alone. Recieving it unchanging means to me I'm just going to have to keep doing this, make the effort on my own. Hopefully it will be auspicious in the end. Some events I have gone to have been a little draining, but this week there is an interesting exhibition opening.
 

hilary

Administrator
Staff member
Joined
Apr 8, 1970
Messages
16,574
Reaction score
2,007
Nuclear hexagram 43...

I think 14 says, 'You've got what it takes' - and maybe unchanging it adds an 'and so...?'
 

rosada

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
8,654
Reaction score
1,692
13/14
Fellowship with Men / Possession in Great Measure

We may not have it all together.
But together we have it all.
 

knotxx

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,280
Reaction score
105
Just remembered this reading and thought I'd put it here. Out of the blue, my husband was offered a job as the head of a nonprofit. Essentially it was his dream job, and the kind of job that was unlikely to come around again. But the nonprofit was in chaos and in financial trouble as well. I asked the yi what it thought about his taking this job and got 14uc.

It's now 14+ years later. My husband was able to quickly turn the organization around in terms of finances and staffing. The board has been so grateful they have given him consistent raises over the years. But most important it's been a profoundly satisfying job to him -- he works 80 hours a week and loves almost every minute.
 

leonine

visitor
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
60
Reaction score
2
I got this about two years ago:
I developed an idea for a mapping app that had to do with real time events. Much more to that, but it was a great starting idea that could have gone in various directions, with built in ideas for advertising, user personalization etc. I came up with the idea and discussed it with one friend who had experience in ad sales and had friends involved with App developments. I also discussed it with a sort of family member who had tech experience and an in with someone who worked with google grants. I'm a creative, but am certainly not a tech person at all.

Great idea, but, while initially very interested, the two people above turned out to be utterly uninvested in the idea, but lacked the decorum to even let me know directly. This led to much work on my end that went absolutely no where. Very frustrating. As they were my only 'ins' with the world that could make the idea a reality, or at least take it to the next step before saying "nope, doesn't work", it has gone nowhere, and won't until I make the correct contacts.

So, for me, 14 unchanging meant, great treasure (in this case, great idea), but it isn't going anywhere/can't manifest (now anyways).
 

Tim K

visitor
Joined
Nov 29, 2013
Messages
1,327
Reaction score
37
Leonine, what was the question you asked Yi?
 

leonine

visitor
Joined
Dec 3, 2010
Messages
60
Reaction score
2
Hi Ashteroid, it was so long ago that I can't even remember, but I THINK it was a general question, something along the lines of " tell me about this App idea".
 
V

Vissino

Guest
My experience with hex 14 uc.

I had asked: Will our relatioship be destroyed?
hex 14

Finally we broke up. For me hex 14 is yes in whatever you asked. Something like "you got it"!
 

canislulu

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
815
Reaction score
22
I asked "What about putting energy behind Jill Stein's presidential candidate?"
I received Hexagram 14 unchanging. I have not decided what I am going to do yet. I have a lot on my plate already.
 

veavea

visitor
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
224
Reaction score
64
I just received 14uc as a response to the question: is a food allergy causing my tongue problems? I take it as a resounding yes! However I am not sure why 14uc was the most suitable answer - I was half-expecting 27 or a hex linked to grain or crops since I suspect grains/gluten are the culprits. Perhaps 14uc signals I'm eating too much grain, or maybe it's just a very substantial affirmation!
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,633
Reaction score
1,962
I just received 14uc as a response to the question: is a food allergy causing my tongue problems? I take it as a resounding yes! However I am not sure why 14uc was the most suitable answer - I was half-expecting 27 or a hex linked to grain or crops since I suspect grains/gluten are the culprits. Perhaps 14uc signals I'm eating too much grain, or maybe it's just a very substantial affirmation!

Generally in these threads I want to accept a person's own view of what their unchanging reading meant to them in hindsight but here well I don't think you know yet if a food allergy is in fact causing your tongue problems. It will take some investigation using physical means to ascertain that. I guess that would involve a process of elimination, cutting things out to see if the tongue problem subsides and so on.

Also I'm not sure why you think 14 here is a resounding yes ? You'll always get more than a yes or no from a Yi answer as you know. Here Yi appears to be saying you possess something in great abundance. My first thought would be that that would be your health. I guess if this answer says you possess good health and a good tongue then the fact there is a problem might be that the fundamentally healthy tongue is over protecting itself, ie allergy but then again it might not.

Edit ; I read my initial post here which said

Anyway in terms of my own experiences and understandings with 14 unchanging I think it's often been an answer of "yes you have", quite simple.

I didn't mean that in the sense of 'yes you have an allergy/illness' or any kind of pathology/misfortune but rather one has the means, the wherewithal needed, such as good health. Of course it's possible a correct diagnosis might be a kind of 'great having' but overall I'd suggest you keep an open mind with this 14 and carry it about with you for a bit longer before coming to any conclusions.



I checked LiSe on 14 http://www.yijing.nl/i_ching/index.html thinking there was wheat in the characters, doesn't seem to be but there is possibly meat....but that is uncertain.

In general self diagnosing via Yi is not something I'd recommend without external verification.


Also I hope you go and have your tongue checked out by a dentist/dr because it seems unusual to me to have a tongue problem so I don't think it's wise just to settle for it being an allergy right now ?


You do have me wondering what on earth is going on with your tongue. I never had a tongue problem except once I had a very hard round lump under it which was alarming. I saw the dentist who said it was likely a blocked saliva gland or little stone or something he wasn't much worried about as he thought it would go by itself. Yi gave me 16.5 about it. It shrunk and eventually disappeared just as he said and just as Yi said. But I would have seen someone about this regardless of Yi's answer to be sure it was harmless. Whenever people post medical questions I generally urge them to get the problem looked at and not just rely on the I Ching.
 
Last edited:

veavea

visitor
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
224
Reaction score
64
Thanks trojina, I don't have a scary lump but after I eat certain foods my tongue gets sore and sometimes ulcerated. It is definitely food related and seems to be exacerbated by some grains so I took it as being obvious there was a food issue, but was curious as to what yi would conclude. But apparently tongue irritation may also be caused by peri menopause or vitamin deficiency (I doubt the latter). I will get it checked out - I don't have much faith in doctors but should get a proper diagnosis if possible. It's just that I expect a doctor to say 'hmm it's probably x', meaning they don't really know either...!
 

veavea

visitor
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
224
Reaction score
64
I'm just going through my journal and find I had 14uc just a couple of weeks before the 'tongue' question - regarding a relationship. Question: "if I try opening up communications with X again, will it be useful or will I just end up getting frustrated?" A bit if a double-ended question, to which I received 14uc.

I did open up comms which went quite well for a short while but now he's gone silent (again) and I indeed became frustrated... !!! :brickwall:

Now just consulting Wing, it says that 14 in static form requires absolute sovereignty and adherence to firm principles regarding the object of inquiry. Could it be that I wasn't firm enough? And as for the troublesome tongue, could it be again that I'm not clear enough on what my standards are, in terms of what goes into my mouth?!
 

veavea

visitor
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
224
Reaction score
64
Oops, I'm talking to myself now (three in a row) but I just wanted to add this: reading Huang, his chapter on 14 is all about the Harvest: decision is "Great Harvest. Sublimely prosperous and smooth."

He says: "In Chinese, 'da' means great and 'you' means possession... however in ancient times 'you' also meant harvest". I guess that should have been obvious but I was looking at different translations. I also just consulted the Illustrated Book of Changes here and there was also much mention of harvest!


So perhaps grains are implicated here after all - or maybe just eating too much full stop... !!
 

veavea

visitor
Joined
May 22, 2016
Messages
224
Reaction score
64
Hello, updating this again - my mouth problems subsequently revealed themselves to be caused by - wait for it - YEAST... candida infection in my mouth (exacerbated by grains and sugars). A slightly queasy interpretation of 14uc Great Harvest but nonetheless accurate... unfortunately unlike social media there's no *queasy emoticon* but if you can imagine one please insert accordingly :D
 

Trojina

Moderator
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
22,633
Reaction score
1,962
A post of Chelsa's copied over from this thread
https://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?25754-Hex-14-uc-and-Love

Thought I’d share a moment of clarity with the iching. In my search for creating deep and lasting live in my life I asked the iching, how I could go about attracting love. It’s answer 14 uc which I took to mean I already possess it. No need to search outside myself. What’s more not only do I possess it already but in sharing the radiance within I will experience love outside of myself. Just wanted to share and give back to this beautiful community. The iching and I are building a relationship and today it finally felt like we were speaking the same language. Helping me to really understand the deepest meaning of 14 uc and the power that already lies within. Xo Chelsa *****
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top