Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 27

[Trojina]

I wonder if I might butt in here please. My recent experience with 27 makes me wonder if it means
"do what makes you feel good" I have been in a so-called 'relationship' which was making me feel insecure, unhappy, anxious, etc.,etc. I have just finished said relationship and now feel actually happy and free. I was expecting to feel very unhappy. I have read - can't remember where (I'm an oldie) that if a proposed action makes you feel good, do it, if it makes you feel bad, don't do it.

Certainly. What makes you feel good is generally what is nourishing to you, particularly in relationships. I agree with what you say, my only reservation is one could not always say that as sometimes harmful things make us feel good....like drugs/alcohol/junk food...But then again those things don't truly make one feel good do they, in the end they cause suffering. But yes I think this idea complements my thoughts about 27uc asking if it's necessary....and often if it makes us feel good then it's necessary...or worth pursuing.

For example I'm sure I got 27uc for a question re going out or not one night. In this case yes, I think 27uc was asking 'well will it feed you, make you feel good....?' and so on. Thinking of it all leisure activities are forms of nourishment so I guess we can think of them, with a 27uc answer, just like we would with choice of a meal.

27uc often seems to direct us to that particularly useful line of questioning. It's what we need to ask, 'what will nourish me here ?' that can help us reach a decision in the matter.

Me again - My son has been in a job where he comes home tired out and miserable, I've been advising him to leave if it makes him so unhappy. He has now been sacked (for the first time in his life) I suggest that he writes down every single thing he can do, then mark off the things he would not like to do until he comes to the one that he feels "mmm I could really enjoy doing that" then look for a job doing that.
Might that be a useful thing for Ashteroid to do? Isn't happiness the best nourishment.

Yes. I remember that thread about your son, you did get 27uc about it didn't you ? May I link to it ? (PM me if you prefer I don't.

 

[anemos]

Certainly. What makes you feel good is generally what is nourishing to you, particularly in relationships. I agree with what you say, my only reservation is one could not always say that as sometimes harmful things make us feel good....like drugs/alcohol/junk food...But then again those things don't truly make one feel good do they, in the end they cause suffering. But yes I think this idea complements my thoughts about 27uc asking if it's necessary....and often if it makes us feel good then it's necessary...or worth pursuing.

.

yes, hence the "temperate" for the continuum of use/ abuse / addiction

I have read - can't remember where (I'm an oldie) that if a proposed action makes you feel good, do it, if it makes you feel bad, don't do it.

but sometimes , what feels good might not be " correct" Unconscious drives or wishes etc. I guess we need check those too, our thinking process.

 

[sooo]

Related and on the general topic of 27uc, it tops the small list of hexagrams that could well apply all the time, whether it is nourishment through sleep, healthy thinking, healthy relationships, and of course a healthy diet of food. There's no greater concern to our well being than the right kind of nourishment.

The second on my list is h30, but what fuels one species may be pure poison to another, and to a lesser degree, what nourishes one human another may be allergic to, peanuts for example. So while fuel and nourishment have something in common, nourishment is specific to the individual and the time. It's never unimportant, never not applicable. It's a useable answer to every question. It tells us not only what to take into ourselves but also what not to take into ourselves, and the quantity as well as quality. It speaks as well to the importance of moderation. It's a rich and vital hexagram, one everyone can benefit from. It reaches to our core of happiness and well being.

 

[Liselle]

I wonder if I might butt in here please. My recent experience with 27 makes me wonder if it means
"do what makes you feel good" I have been in a so-called 'relationship' which was making me feel insecure, unhappy, anxious, etc.,etc. I have just finished said relationship and now feel actually happy and free. I was expecting to feel very unhappy. I have read - can't remember where (I'm an oldie) that if a proposed action makes you feel good, do it, if it makes you feel bad, don't do it.

I think that's sometimes true, but also often not. It probably depends on the situation, the person, their expectations, the context, and so forth. For example, dating a lovable doofus might be the perfect thing to do for a while, but probably not to spend the rest of your life with, no matter how nice to you he is or how much fun he is to be with.

And there are many things that make us feel bad, but it's necessary to do them anyway. Ask a certain percentage of 10-year-olds about school, for example.

It might be better to ask, is this good or bad FOR me - another way to phrase the "nourishment" idea.

(Of course, some things are just plain bad all around - they neither feel good nor are good for us. Your recent relationship sounds like one of those.)

I didn't know Ashteroid was your son. (Probably everyone else knew that, lol.)

 

[Trojina]

What makes you think Ashteroid is her son. She hasn't said that....she was just referring to a post by Ash in this thread as far as I can see. You know, she spoke about her son and then spoke about Ashteroid but they are not the same person.

 

[Trojina]

Here is Meigga's thread on 27uc and her son, who was a chef (not Ashteroid)

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?18215-Hex-27-unchanging

 

[Trojina]

( Lisa I think you and I are doomed to a series of miscommunications )

 

[Liselle]

What makes you think Ashteroid is her son. She hasn't said that....she was just referring to a post by Ash in this thread as far as I can see. You know, she spoke about her son and then spoke about Ashteroid but they are not the same person.

...Oh. I see that now. Ashteroid's post was from last December and a fair distance back in the thread, probably that's why I didn't connect it to Meigga's comment. But it makes more sense now, thanks!

 

[anemos]

Reading a study about mental illness and emotions and the Chinese perspective and I use this site to better understand some words. Looking for something else, I came across to the following and thought to post it here for its relevance to H27 . The author says is a Chinese agape.

祸从口出; 病从口入.
Huòcóngkǒuchū; bìngcóngkǒurù.
Trouble stems from what comes out of your mouth; illness starts from what goes into your mouth.
(Trouble comes from what you say; illness comes from what you eat.)

 

[Liselle]

And there's also your 27uc parking nightmare.

Ah well I think I swallowed that particular boiled sweet....I think Yi was leapfrogging the parking and asking if it was necessary to go at all !

Now I've been wondering what has gotten you to that conclusion...? I mean, it may be, but why would Yi have said that, when you were glad you went despite all the trials and tribulations? I could see the I Ching giving you an out if it knew you would have an utterly miserable experience, which you were undertaking only out of a sense of obligation, and because it knew your presence was not really necessary given the large audience. (It would have ways of saying, "Your attendance really is important here" if the crowd was going to be sparse.)

You ended up feeling exhilarated and triumphant for having gone. Why would the Yi have made a lukewarm attempt to talk you out of it, and changed your subject in the process?

I don't see reverse psychology here, either, since the notion of "is it necessary to go at all" didn't occur to you at the time, according to what you wrote. (Reverse psychology where you ask about parking while feeling reluctant to go at all, and Yi says, "Eh, you don't have to," and it sort of steels your resolve to do it anyway, in order to not feel guilty for being selfish or something.)

deadhorse: <<<<< dragged him here myself, so you don't have to)

 

[Trojina]

It was offering a choice. I might have felt a sense of triumph...but over what ? In the big scheme of things I don't think it mattered if I went or not. I think I see answers a lot looser than you do. I don't them as saying just one particular thing. It's more like being given a poem, you can take it to any level...and in the end it can come down to a feeling. I don't share your view of Yi in that I don't think answers are there for my maximum convenience, it's my life all the choices are still mine....and they are to learn from. I quite like 27 uc as 'is it necessary...will it nourish ?'

I don't see reverse psychology here, either, since the notion of "is it necessary to go at all" didn't occur to you at the time, according to what you wrote.

No it didn't occur to me at the time which was odd given what I'd written in the first post you'd think I'd see it. But it doesn't really matter does it since it comes down to my choice. Also if the question was about parking the 27uc could also have simply been 'what are your requirements....choose your parking according to those and why do you need to ask me about this ?'.

Half the questions we ask we don't even need to. Those questions on that occasion were in hindsight unnecessary but nevertheless all useful learning.

But no I don't want to have it to pin it all down to a single statement. I mean Yi is fundamentally a poem in many ways. If I want facts I look for ways to get facts.

You ended up feeling exhilarated and triumphant for having gone. Why would the Yi have made a lukewarm attempt to talk you out of it, and changed your subject in the process?

well I made a choice ? Was the expedition going to nourish me. That was what 27uc asked me. I decided it was and it did....so what's wrong with that, 27 uc as an answer.

Was Yi meant to jump up and down shouting 'yes go !'. Why would it....it was my choice. I don't understand it when you ask why Yi answered a certain way....I mean it really isn't there to take your power of choice away. Most of our choices are quite insignificant, there is no right or wrong good or bad.

Anyway I don't think it's there only to make life more convenient and pleasant...we had this discussion in 37uc and the keys.. Remember it's not just a facility it is a wise Oracle, it often gives more than we ask or often leaves us squarely with the choice itself because we have to learn through living.

In the end afterall how can I say why Yi gave the answer it did. If I knew that then I myself would be Yi

 

[Liselle]

I want to know why Yi answers as it does because it's germane to understanding what it's saying. I mean, it's saying something, presumably something worth our attention, and I don't want to start a habit of fluffing it off as if it makes no difference, or by saying, "Ah well, it's on a 'higher plane,'" when I don't understand something. Can't we start with the idea that it's actually trying to communicate to us?

I can see 27uc as indicating a nourishing experience, and how that's a bit different from asking you if it's necessary to go at all.

But you weren't even debating going or not going, as far as I can tell from what you wrote. You had already made that decision, hadn't you? Weren't you just focussed on the logistical details of going? So why drag the conversation back to a river you'd already crossed (so to speak)? I could see Yi doing that if it was trying to encourage you to change your mind, possibly to save you from an unredeemed miserable experience. I mean, Yi does have the capacity to be gentle with us, in appropriate circumstances, and to show us how we can be gentle with ourselves, right?

But that wasn't the case here. You were glad you went. You said it felt like "a little bit of magic." You didn't so much as catch a cold from being drenched. So why even go down the road of questioning the nourishment value of going?

Encouraging you to make your own decision is one thing, but isn't it usually best to make an informed decision? You were basically asking for relevant information from the only source who had it. There is no "parking office" for you to call, is there? (I don't know, is there a parking information website? Does the car-park itself have a website? I've never heard of such things, but I've never had reason to look.)

I mean, no matter what Yi would have said, it's still your decision, right? It can't forcibly restrain you, or forcibly make you go. (Although if it gives a reading which says, "Don't leave the house," we probably ought to heed it.)

So why not just give you the information? It's entirely up to you what to then do with it.

Another way of looking at this is not so much even "why" Yi answers a certain way, as wondering if readings like this are actually addressing the actual question, and we're just missing something.

 

[Trojina]

I want to know why Yi answers as it does because it's germane to understanding what it's saying. I mean, it's saying something, presumably something worth our attention, and I don't want to start a habit of fluffing it off as if it makes no difference, or by saying, "Ah well, it's on a 'higher plane,'" when I don't understand something. Can't we start with the idea that it's actually trying to communicate to us?

But I cannot give you my understanding of my answer. I can share it that's all. I can't give you explanations of my sense of answers to the degree you want . We keep getting back to this but surely it belongs to some other thread ? We spent ages on 37uc thread talking about this. I'm not fluffing it I just can't explain more than I already have. You speak as if Yi is some information machine, I don't see it that way at all. We do readings in different ways and that's okay, we'll have different insights. But I can't make my own insights for my own readings reach your criteria of meanings.....

So why not just give you the information? It's entirely up to you what to then do with it.

Another way of looking at this is not so much even "why" Yi answers a certain way, as wondering if readings like this are actually addressing the actual question, and we're just missing something.

Because Yi addresses attitude as much as anything. Sometimes it might say 'do this'' or 'do that' but often attitude is more important. I don't just want information. If I wanted information I could find it the usual way, by speaking to someone or something.

In the end it's my reading and how I perceive it. I can't give you that perception. I'm not aiming for you to agree with me on my experience. We won't be able to always see how others come to the understanding they do...

As I see Yi so differently to you then we aren't going to agree on how it's answering. For example I couldn't see why it would be so bad for you to speak in the 44uc experience where you thought 44 meant 'don't speak. I mean what is the worst that could happen ? They could just say 'no thanks Lisa' so why were you so relieved not to have spoken ? That's what I thought....but I didn't get you to explain because I feel your own reported experience is worth reading just in itself. I don't want you to answer that question BTW, I am satisfied that that was your subjective experience of 44uc and I accept I may not wholly get it. And what's more it's actually more interesting to me that I don't wholly get it as it gives my mind room to move and see 44uc the way you did then.

Anyway I'm not explaining how I saw my 27uc anymore.

 

[Liselle]

In the end it's my reading and how I perceive it. I can't give you that perception. I'm not aiming for you to agree with me on my experience. We won't be able to always see how others come to the understanding they do...

I see your point, and agree with it (it's obviously ridiculous to say, "No, I won't allow you to have your own perception of your own reading" ), but then you say things like this:

I don't just want information. If I wanted information I could find it the usual way, by speaking to someone or something.

in a discussion about an example in which you actually were asking for factual information, from - as I said - the only source who had it. You couldn't speak to someone or something about it, other than the I Ching. It wasn't possible.

I see that as trying to make an informed decision, with the information coming from Yi. You see it - as you've made a point to tell me more than once - as trying to make the I Ching be Dobby the elf. There's probably some truth and validity on both sides.

And actually, I think explaining our readings is part of what we're here for. It's frustrating if we're not supposed to ask people for explanations when we don't understand what they've said, or if we have legitimate concerns about their interpretations. That's different from insisting they're wrong (which...may be how I've come across in this discussion ).

Although, it's not impossible for people to be wrong, sometimes, about even their own readings, is it? I can't say that you're wrong about THIS reading, and even if I tried to, I do not have the correct answer at hand, lol. But maybe you are wrong, and maybe I'm wrong about my hex 44 reading. I decided not to speak up because the text I quoted seemed to fit my sense of the situation so well. But, we don't know what we don't know - I don't know what would have happened if I would have made my suggestion. Maybe they would have said "We're not going to do that, but thank you for trying" (as you speculated), or maybe they really would have been annoyed (for the reasons I wrote in my post). However, the fact that other I Ching authors - Wilhelm, and Hilary - say something different is probably actually worth attending to more than I did.

I'm not so sure about my hex 44 example anymore. Which doesn't make me wrong; it just makes me no longer 1000% sure. Maybe there could have been a middle ground or compromise with my suggestion - do my idea sometimes, but not exhaustively. Maybe I could have come up with a way of presenting it that would have come across well, vs. not. Don't know.

 

[anemos]

Although, it's not impossible for people to be wrong, sometimes, about even their own readings, is it?

There is always a potential to read a reading wrong, imo. Even the "gut" feeling is not always infallible. I recall one reading about a very generous offer someone made but for some reasons was resisting to accept it. My first reaction was "yeah, Yi says too don't accept it" yet I noticed I felt in my body a kind of aversion accepting the opposite version and was that feeling made me look again at the reading.

I usually ask my self "if this is what I think yi says, what could be the opposite idea". Its not always useful approach, and adds more confusion most of the times because actually to return to a "no-answer" stage , yet seen both sides , examine the situation from various angles could be of some help, imo

 

[Trojina]

in a discussion about an example in which you actually were asking for factual information, from - as I said - the only source who had it. You couldn't speak to someone or something about it, other than the I Ching. It wasn't possible.

No I was not asking for information. As you can see below I was asking for advice This was my question. Advice can come on any level. I wasn't going to Yi for parking information I was asking for advice to me on my overall attitude/approach etc etc

So though I wouldn't usually ask this I asked Yi for parking advice that night and got 27 uc. That was no help at all as I didn't know what it meant.

A few months down the line I can see, as I have already said, ....well I won't repeat it again but I see it from a different angle. I was not asking for information.

And actually, I think explaining our readings is part of what we're here for. It's frustrating if we're not supposed to ask people for explanations when we don't understand what they've said, or if we have legitimate concerns about their interpretations. That's different from insisting they're wrong (which...may be how I've come across in this discussion ).

I can explain a little but speaking only for myself I don't want to spend ages and ages on explaining my own readings as the threads are for a variety of people's experiences IMO. I often understand answers in the way I'd read a poem. If you try to narrow a poem down to what the precise meaning is you kill it off stone cold dead. As for frustration well I think one has to live with not knowing sometimes. Actually I recall when I posted a poem in the poetry thread you asked me to explain it....and I did a bit but I don't think I needed to or should have ....because it was a poem not a factual piece of information from which I wanted you get precise factual information. Though of course I do appreciate your interest and input here and elsewhere.


I read your experiences with interest but have a totally different perception of Yi to you. Hence how can I make my perceptions of my own readings meet your criteria, satisfy your ideas for how Yi 'ought to' answer ? I can't. Yes my current understanding of 27uc in that instance may be wrong....who knows. Time often makes a difference to readings I don't understand at first. I was just reporting my own experience and understanding. I can't make it fit yours.

 

[Liselle]

I usually ask my self "if this is what I think yi says, what could be the opposite idea". Its not always useful approach, and adds more confusion most of the times because actually to return to a "no-answer" stage , yet seen both sides , examine the situation from various angles could be of some help, imo

Yes, so we don't jump to conclusions too fast. If I'm understanding what you're saying here, I've seen Bradford make a similar point - that we should try to think of at least two possible meanings for each line, one in a "positive" sense, and one in a "negative" sense. I'm not quoting him accurately, I'm sure, but his point as I understand it is that we should avoid pre-conceived notions that certain lines are always positive, good, happy lines and certain lines are always negative, bad, gloomy lines. He was saying that each line can be either.

 

[Liselle]

No I was not asking for information. As you can see below I was asking for advice This was my question. Advice can come on any level. I wasn't going to Yi for parking information I was asking for advice to me on my overall attitude/approach etc etc

If 27uc here was saying something like, "You'll find what you need" vis a vis parking, would you consider that to be advice? I think we considered that meaning earlier in the thread, but it sounds like you've rejected the possibility since then.

I was thinking about the 60uc part during this conversation, which we'd never talked about in the thread (naturally enough; it's a 27uc thread). That one was your reading about parking in the road. I think it's possible what that meant was something like "Parking in the road will be limited or restricted" in some (serious and significant) way. And I still think 3.5.6>27 about the car park might have been saying that you'd have some chaos or growing pains at the beginning, against a backdrop of "But it is here where you'll find the parking you need." That is exactly what happened. And then the lines could be describing your adventures in the car park in more detail.

So if the second two readings were addressing the parking issue, then it seems unlikely to me that your first reading about parking would be the non-sequitur, "You'll be really nourished by the performance!" or "Is it necessary for you to go at all?" (A non-sequitur in light of the second two readings, and a non-sequitur as an answer to your first question given that going was a decision you'd already made and were not debating with yourself, according to what you wrote here.)

I'm going to be horribly blunt and say that I think you are so appalled that you asked the I Ching mundane questions about parking, that you are loathe to acknowledge that it might have actually answered them!

I often understand answers in the way I'd read a poem. If you try to narrow a poem down to what the precise meaning is you kill it off stone cold dead.

Fine, but poems are widely expected to have non-pin-downable meanings, to mean different things to different people, and so forth. Readings are specific questions, followed by responses to them. (Of course, some questions are more poetic than others...)

Actually I recall when I posted a poem in the poetry thread you asked me to explain it....and I did a bit but I don't think I needed to or should have

I do remember that, and how you had to tell me you didn't want to discuss it very much. You also made the good point that too much discussion or explanation might have privacy implications for some people, or be more emotionally intense than they wanted to engage in. (If I remember correctly without checking.)

I think those things could be true for discussing readings as well, although I think it's often possible to explain readings without naming names or exposing identifiable details. It's what I try to do, being as internet-phobic as I am. :bag:

 

[anemos]

i agree with that idea, in general. Its how I usually think and i need two points as reference. To me they create a field where I play with ideas.

sometimes my initial understanding could be wrong, other times I return to the same point no matter what route I'll follow. There is not a specif recipe, and yes a terrifying lines could be pretty "positive" or a positive line with many promises will never manifest. very roughly, imo, there is a situation and there are conditions for a positive outcome or a negative. IMO, some lines just highlight the positive aspect/outcome some others the negative if a line say " watch out , there is a pit before you" it doesn't mean you will fall into it

I don't agree with the ideas such "yi only responds such and such ways" We don't know how it responds, me thinks. We can't tell if its about our inner state or outer circumstances or present or future or even past.

there are times I reach to a deadlock ; grhhhh . those times I say " well, if there was no Yi and couldn't get any help what would i do ??? " easy

I mean , there are people out there that don't use Yi and manage one way or another to lead a life. Using Yi , to me, doesn't mean one will avoid mistakes. We are humans and our thinking is not flawless. That's the reality and this is the main reason I like Yi and don't like a lot all that trendy spiritual books. Some of them feed us with such ideas that , imho, one can lose touch with reality.

there is 30.1 that express that idea , imo. We are going to do some mistakes , no big deal and if we mess up (4.4) learn you lesson and move one

 

[moss elk]

Once i was busy running errands all day until early evening.
I accomplished many small tasks.
I sat for a moment and wondered what else i could do with myself that day,
(More errands? Visit a friend? Housework?)
I did a quick reading and got 27 unchanging.

I realized then that i hadn't eaten anything this day and had a slight headache from low blood sugar.
So i relaxed and had a meal.

 

[Trojina]

So if the second two readings were addressing the parking issue, then it seems unlikely to me that your first reading about parking would be the non-sequitur, "You'll be really nourished by the performance!" or "Is it necessary for you to go at all?" (A non-sequitur in light of the second two readings, and a non-sequitur as an answer to your first question given that going was a decision you'd already made and were not debating with yourself, according to what you wrote here.)

But you aren't really in a position to say if it's unlikely or not since you did not have the experience , did not have the memory of it ...and also have no real idea of how I came to see 27uc how I did.

I was actually doing something else, not thinking about those readings in an analytical way and the 27uc shone out to me in a way I cannot define to you . It was the first question of the series I asked I think and was all I needed to know. In effect you are saying my shining out moment must be secondary to your own way of understanding of my experience unless I can explain it to you in terms of your way of understanding Yi. And you are saying my understanding of the answer through my own feeling, my own light bulb moment is 'unlikley'. Well no it's my reading....To be honest if I wanted a lot input on it I would have posted it in Change Circle.

I'm going to be horribly blunt and say that I think you are so appalled that you asked the I Ching mundane questions about parking, that you are loathe to acknowledge that it might have actually answered them!

May I be equally blunt and says that's rubbish. Why on earth would I be appalled at asking any question I want. I don't mind what questions I ask.. You didn't understand the question I asked or assumed it was something it wasn't. You assumed I asked with your mind but I didn't.

we are going around in circles ....let's stop

Fine, but poems are widely expected to have non-pin-downable meanings, to mean different things to different people, and so forth. Readings are specific questions, followed by responses to them. (Of course, some questions are more poetic than others...)

Yi is like a poem. You can't really imagine there are these absolute pin downable meanings to answers surely. If you want 100% pin downable answers Yi is hardly the best way through is it !

I'm glad you have gone on to chatting about general theories of uc hexagrams etc etc on another uc thread anyway, as I have had enough of me and parking

 

[Liselle]

Back in the beginning of June, I posted in this thread about a 27uc reading I'd gotten:

http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?17469-Your-Experiences-with-Unchanging-Castings-Hexagram-27&p=191179#post191179

27uc had been the first reading in a ridiculously long series of readings about a problem I thought urgently needed solving. The situation has now been resolved, and I think 27uc may have been referring to a wastebasket - an "open mouth."

The problem was that I had lost an Xacto knife blade in my kitchen. I had washed it, dried it with a couple of tissues, and - I thought - put it away in its usual spot in a drawer. I use my Xacto knife quite often, and I have consistent habits for handling it. The next day when I went to get it out to use it again, the blade was not there. I looked for it on the countertop, on the floor, etc. with no success. I was very worried, because obviously it's dangerous for it to be loose somewhere. I have cats - I had horrible visions of them batting it around the floor and/or trying to put it in their mouths.

Yesterday, when I moved a couple things in the kitchen which don't get moved very often, the knife blade fell to the floor.

My best guess now is that I hadn't taken the blade out of the tissues I had dried it in, and it fell out of the crumpled tissues while I was carrying them to the wastebasket.

So I think 27uc probably meant the wastebasket? The blade wasn't inside the wastebasket, nor was it directly underneath or behind it. It was near the wastebasket - certainly on the path between the countertop and the wastebasket - but I found it while moving a couple of things that aren't the wastebasket.

I had actually asked about this possibility in the fifth reading: "How likely it got thrown in the trash?" The answer was 58.3 > 43, which I don't understand. I see from my notes that I actually went through the trash without finding it (obviously, since it wasn't IN the trash). Anyway. I did over two dozen readings that night about this . If I went through them carefully I might see that Yi was trying to tell me things...if I ever summon the energy to pick apart that many readings (not likely uch.

 

[sooo]

I generally precede Yi's answers with a "consider this", rather than always expecting an absolute clear-cut answer.

Considering Lisa's Xacto knife example, a tissue or napkin is usually a receptacle, a sort of open jaws (it ate the blade right out of the knife handle), at least in this case it was. If Lisa considered the last receptacle the knife was placed into, the tissue may have come to mind. I don't think there's another hexagram which would offer a more descriptive answer than 27, though it's understandable that it was still a riddle to complete. If the blade or knife had gone into the garbage can, then I'd consider that as a likely meaning.

Another possibly longer shot may have also been that by moving normally closed spaces on the counter top, she'd have opened them up, which is what wound up happening.

58.3-43 could be like saying "you're cold, looking in the wrong place - listen to what I'm saying."

Using the Yijing does require a creative imagination since it usually speaks in abstract symbolic terms. How else could one small book lead into every known corner of our world?

 

[Liselle]

I generally precede Yi's answers with a "consider this", rather than always expecting an absolute clear-cut answer.

Good suggestion. Sometimes I do insert other little words like "If...then..." or whatever into the text to see if it helps it to make more sense. "Consider this" is a good one.

Considering Lisa's Xacto knife example, a tissue or napkin is usually a receptacle, a sort of open jaws (it ate the blade right out of the knife handle), at least in this case it was. If Lisa considered the last receptacle the knife was placed into, the tissue may have come to mind. I don't think there's another hexagram which would offer a more descriptive answer than 27, though it's understandable that it was still a riddle to complete. If the blade or knife had gone into the garbage can, then I'd consider that as a likely meaning.

Oh, okay. I can see how the tissue itself (in addition to the wastebasket) could be a receptacle - I hadn't thought of that. It might be sort of a distant hint - a hint because both the tissue and the wastebasket had something to do with the problem, "distant" because it wasn't actually in the tissue anymore.

58.3-43 could be like saying "you're cold, looking in the wrong place - listen to what I'm saying."

I think I see the idea you're advancing here...first Yi gave me 27uc to get me to think about receptacles (wastebasket, tissue), and then when I specifically asked if I'd thrown it away in the trash, 58.3>43 meant, "Close, but not quite." I can see how that fits - that is what actually happened.

(Have started a separate thread on 58.3 so as not to derail this one.)

Another possibly longer shot may have also been that by moving normally closed spaces on the counter top, she'd have opened them up, which is what wound up happening.

I could have explained this better, sorry. I did go through everything on the countertop, because it was a logical place to look (along with the floor, and the entire drawer which contains the little box I keep the knife in). The knife blade didn't fall from the tissue onto the countertop. I found it when I moved a wicker rack which stands on the floor near the countertop. The rack is conceivably en route from the countertop to the wastebasket - if I was moving my arm a certain way while carrying the tissue loosely (as you typically carry tissue), I could see how the blade could have fallen out onto the rack. The rack is mostly decorative; it's not something I actually use routinely, so it's not surprising that I never noticed it there.

 

[sooo]

Interesting "case". Appreciate your feedback, Lisa. I like the riddle aspect of these type of readings.

 

[trustcanon]

A thought over parking and its associated cause.

We may contemplate on what we are so we can tell what we have done, as we have shaped ourselves into us today. King Wen judged this 27th hexagram to be a tongue inside the jaw such that tongue, however it may move around, might stop very well, to advise, "Watch your tongue being in the jaw!" We should also, he encouraged, discipline ourselves as to how to tell the truth.

Confucius interpreted this such that we may shape what we will be and so may we make our future by learning language, practicing speech, offering presentation, going into persuasion or negotiation, thereby literally accomplish 'the fruit of the mouth, i.e. tongue,' 'nurturing,' 'nourishment.'

The 27th hexagram is judged as 'the Subject to the Head' in its literal characters, Mountain upper and Earthquake-Thunder lower. Just as earthquake moves to make thunder from underground but to stop at the foot of the mountain, when we chew food with teeth and move it around with tongue inside the jaw, we stop to talk or not to bite. When we try to choose either to park on the street or to go into the parking lot, we may cast asking for better result, but we tend to be occupied with a more important cause as we are trying to contribute to the support invited. We might say we asked Yi about parking issue but most likely without losing the constant consciousness of major motive associated with the supports needs. We may not realize which way to go while being already on the way to the lot to find a parking spot. Cars in a row roaring up and down might have made sound like a thunder or an earthquake inside the building structure accepting vehicles, letting them stayed for a while and then exited as if a jaw or a mouth ate, rolled food around, and swallowed away. The heavier weight might as well, though, have been scaled on how to listen to the supporting suggestion, to accept the cause, to express willingness to participate in, to wrap up the aftermath, and to move on to a next step relation built-up. As we are to learn the great lesson from the 27th hexagram such that we may appreciate the importance of the communication in practical world of interactions as is in the form of words of mouth. Confucius advises of the time of the essence for communication, as in the case of the earth, its atmosphere, and the heaven that grow all beings, or of the sage who trains the intelligent to come to bless all the people. Yi might have advised so, when the 27th hexagram is obtained, as to convey what may have not been mentioned but should have expressed, which requires industry knowledge, current trend and future inputs in addition to past traits, including appropriate expression.

 

[emiliana2010]

My experience with 27 unchanging:

before heading toward a job interview I asked the Yi: "How will the interview go?"
27 unchanging did not made me jump for joy.
The outcome? I didn't get the job.

Here is the thread posted about this topic :
http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/frie...-Hex-27-unchanging-for-job-interview-tomorrow

Love to all.

 

[veavea]

I've had 27uc for the questions 'am I wasting money buying pointless things' and 'there's no point me worrying about it is there?' referring to an unspecified problem that I obviously understood at the time. Both good examples of questions where the question of what I'm nourishing myself on - i.e. pointless worrying - was key. More recently I've had it in relation to a talk I've to give and which I've been fretting over. I asked whether it's better for me to do less rather than more (in other words keep it simple). 27uc. I take from this that I need to consider what I'm putting into it, so it's not a matter of whether it's more or less, but quality rather than quantity...? Which seems rather different to the other 27uc, but I guess that just relates to the context...! By the way, I love trojina's parking story. My first thought was to park outside a restaurant

 

[toblindfoldher]

"Was she serious?"
27 unch: "Take her word for it."

 

[butterfly spider]

I had a real desire to call my MOther - not the most nourishing of souls.

However, I just felt that there should be a nourishment on some level, a feeling that we should make contact, talk, albeit her taking on her old stance of the put down woman, the victim, the poor begotten mother nobody wants.

I talked to her, as a nearly 60 year old, and felt that even though she, as an 84 year old, put me down, made me feel as if she was the poor old victim here, the conversation had a meaning, a nourishment that went beyond the rubbish and garbage expounding from her mouth.

Even though I am, to her, the worst daughter on the planet and her grandchildren are the most evil souls around, I was pleased, on some level, that I spoke to her.

Maybe that is not such a nourishing thing, but when I asked about phoning, this is what I got