Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 30

[iams girl]

You took 30 as clarify , iams girl ?

Hi anemos,

Pretty much. Wilhelm/Baynes (which I mostly use) says God "causes creatures to perceive one another in the sign of the Clinging" (pg. 268) which could easily mean "clarify."

W/B calls 30 "Li/The Clinging, Fire" though and my situation helped me see that what the fire "clings" to as things become clarified is truly a very important aspect of the hexagram. By that I mean my manager chose to cling to lowliness and "burn" me with the fire of his ego which was pretty rough on me that week. So, I guess what I was trying to say was that even if things looked bad, if he'd been a little more compassionate with a good employee (me), the situation could have gone a lot better. Which brings up the randomness of the outcome with a reading like 30uc, kind of depending on the development of the personalities or situation involved.

I think the following quote fits in with the higher potential of what being exposed in the light of 30uc somehow could be like, at least in my experience:

A true friend knows your weaknesses but shows you your strengths; feels your fears but fortifies your faith; sees your anxieties but frees your spirit; recognizes your disabilities but emphasizes your possibilities. ~William Arthur Ward

 

[iams girl]

looking more carefully in that, I see it as a really nice illustration of the various interdependent relationships.

Very interesting !!!

Crossed posted, but hopefully my 30 clarification on your last post still applies

 

[anemos]

Crossed posted, but hopefully my 30 clarification on your last post still applies

Yes it does!!! thank you.

what you describe makes clear that the seriousness of the mistake depends on the persons and dynamics involved and not only on its nature. It can also send you a message not to cling to his attitude.

thanks for sharing this reading

 

[anemos]

While I don't really disagree with the idea of "catching the bird" The opposite image, ie. the bird untrapping itself for what represents "nets" and free itself seems a not far-fetched idea.

What do you think ?

 

[sooo]

Not at all farfetched. It's like when waking from a dream that you strongly feel has important significance, but it has escaped before your conscious mind can capture or recall it.

I doubt it's still used, but a bird was a slang Brit term for an attractive young woman back in the 60's.

Norwegian Wood - Beatles

I once had a girl, or should I say, she once had me...
She showed me her room, isn't it good, Norwegian wood?

She asked me to stay and she told me to sit anywhere,
So I looked around and I noticed there wasn't a chair.

I sat on a rug, biding my time, drinking her wine
We talked until two and then she said, "It's time for bed"

She told me she worked in the morning and started to laugh.
I told her I didn't and crawled off to sleep in the bath

And when I awoke, I was alone, this bird had flown
So I lit a fire, isn't it good, Norwegian wood.

 

[anemos]

lol, seems women and birds go together .

We have a saying " the bird flew away" for lost opportunities. Bird and fire; classified in hex 30 song !! like it

As for the dreams, yes . sometimes I try to "delete" them but I 'm afraid they are already "written" in other places.

Was thinking "nets" as conditioned thoughts or behaviors - something which is a h29 aspect, and in 30 you release your self from those and can see more clear - free of their obscuring influences.

 

[sooo]

As in, and the light shall set you free.

Sometimes though we escape one net and fly right into another, thinking it is a safety net. I raised two boys (but actually were mamma's boys). One escaped meth and flew right into copious consumption of beer. The other escaped coke and alcohol and flew right into religious addiction. Makes the word freedom a net of its own. Even to be free of all nets is questionable. As the song says: ...and freedom, oh freedom, well that's just some people talking. Your prison is walking through this world all alone.

I think that too is the message of 30. We must cling to something to keep our fire burning. Even Kali, symbol of time and space - the space which had to exist before a creation could occur - must be fed. Therefore h2 came before h1, or in binary, 0 comes before 1.

 

[anemos]

Makes the word freedom a net of its own. Even to be free of all nets is questionable.

That is something I believe too. We are 'bound' is some respects.The interdependence of 30 , like the Kali Shiva relationship or the breast and the womb that, imo, have a lot to do with "addictions" of any kind.

I have noticed that some perceive interdependence as opposite to freedom. What I like at 30, if i understood it well, is that very point it makes , that freedom and interdependence are not always conflicting forces.

" life lives on life"

 

[sooo]

Ah, a fellow student of Campbell.

Indeed it does. The moon clings to earth, the earth clings to the sun, the sun owes it's existence to what once was one, one owes it's Big Bang to the space where there once were none.

One can not escape the net. The least we can do is to acknowledge that we owe our existence to it.

 

[anemos]

One can not escape the net. The least we can do is to acknowledge that we owe our existence to it.

Yes !
That "clarity" is freedom,imo

I'm reading about brain liaisons and other "happy" situations,and I can't help it and put aside the books and ponder on the wonder of our existence.

 

[sooo]

Yeah, for all we know the Big Bang was a kernel of corn popping while the gods watched a movie of creation upon Vishnu's awakening.

 

[anemos]

aha !!!

 

[anemos]

aha !!!

I thought I was kind of derailing the thread but I can see the relevance ( although I don't know much about Hinduism) .

 

[sooo]

Very relevant symbolism of 30, and probably even more so to hex1. Or possibly h14, fire over heaven. That is Shiva, Lord of the Dance.

The dancing Shiva is enclosed within a circular mandala of flames (prabhamandala) shown on a flat, two-dimensional plane, while the gestures of Shiva’s arms and legs describe a circle in space, in three dimensions. With your imagination, you need to supply the fourth dimension — time — which cannot be expressed in the static image: if you stare at the image and let the dancer begin to move, he will start to whirl in a circle, in the direction shone by his left leg which is lifted up and moving towards the right, as is his lower left arm. In addition to the whirling body of the god, you can also see his locks of matted hair whirling around, unbound; Shiva’s hair plays an important role in the god’s iconography and also in the stories told about him.

So what we see here is a cycle, a circle, a whirling dance in which opposed forces are in perfect balance. To read the story of the forces that are both unleashed here and held in check, we need to look at Shiva’s arms (four of them) and his legs. They tell the story of creation and destruction which has happened not just once but over and over again, and not just in the world outside, but in the world within, especially within the hearts of Shiva’s worshipers. Statues like this were of course not originally intended for museums, but instead were venerated in temples and carried in processions during holy days in honor of the god, inspiring dances performed by his followers.

In Shiva’s upper right hand, there is a small hourglass-shaped drum, called a damaru, which provides the music for the dance, and which also symbolizes the act of the creation of the world through sound. The role of sound is an essential force in Hindu cosmology: the Sanskrit language came into being, syllable by syllable, from the sound of Shiva’s drum beating.

 

[sooo]

You may notice that Shiva stands upon something or someone, which is called ignorance. This being is sometimes depicted as a pig, which is interesting too in that a pig is associated with hex 4.

 

[anemos]

You may notice that Shiva stands upon something or someone, which is called ignorance. This being is sometimes depicted as a pig, which is interesting too in that a pig is associated with hex 4.

ha ! I missed that. Interesting !!!!

It would be nice if you could open a thread on Hinduism. There so many interesting things one can find. I'm not suggesting something academic, just sharing impressions and how it resonates to all of us. I have personally benefit from their thoughts Maybe because in some respects resembles the Greek Mythology with all those gods with human traits ( good or bad).

Was thinking of those terrifying images , depicting those deities, like the one you posted earlier and while in the beginning repels you they attract you too. Its like when we were children closing our eyes with our hands before scary scenes on tv yet we were seeing through the gaps between our finger. I have no explanation why that feeling but it was so clear that I had to laugh

 

[yeniyen]

This is my first time here:

I am in a 30 unchanging situation myself. I asked the i Ching "What am I to learn from my relationship with x" and got this. Back story: Unhealthy relationship. Left me pregnant at 3 months pregnant for another woman. Ongoing child support case. He wants nothing with his on.

The way I see 30 is how Knot had mentioned. It's definitely "Karmic" - not in a good way. There is definitely fire, feeding fire. I can say that I still hold the anger towards X, but in that case, by holding onto my anger I am feeding the fire and allowing it to grow.

I see 30 as being in a cycle of fire and needing to learn to break free.

 

[kafuka]

I got 30 unchanging more than a year ago when I asked if I should act on my gay side. I was at early stage of questioning my sexuality at that point, wasn't sure what my feelings mean and where I stand.
I didn't understand the reading back then but looking back I think I can relate to what Trojina posted in the very first post of this thread. It's like the question was outside the reality of my life because I definitely wasn't ready back then but I asked anyway. I somewhat see it as Yi telling me "you're not there yet, you have to wait until 31 Attraction time arrives".

 

[hilary]

Just been digesting this thread to see what I can glean to help a client. I think that the examples Knot started with, the mutually destructive cycling self-sustaining relationship, has plenty in common with the cosmic interdependence and dance of Shiva. Common ideas: interdependent and self-sustaining.

The supportive work-community Iams_girl found reminds me of 30 describing my mother's church after Dad died. I can't remember if that one was unchanging, but there was the same sense of being 'upheld' in the woven fabric of the community. Interesting that in both cases something bad had to happen for the support to become fully manifest.

 

[sooo]

Just been digesting this thread to see what I can glean to help a client. I think that the examples Knot started with, the mutually destructive cycling self-sustaining relationship, has plenty in common with the cosmic interdependence and dance of Shiva. Common ideas: interdependent and self-sustaining.

The supportive work-community Iams_girl found reminds me of 30 describing my mother's church after Dad died. I can't remember if that one was unchanging, but there was the same sense of being 'upheld' in the woven fabric of the community. Interesting that in both cases something bad had to happen for the support to become fully manifest.

I'm glad you caught the Shiva relevancy in your net. Rereading those references, I had to wonder where I was going with all that. Rethinking it, I can recapture it, and it further reminded me that the CERN Hadron particle collider complex highlights the image of Shiva at its entrance. It is believed that the Higgs boson particle, dubbed the "God Particle" by some, is not dependent upon anything and is itself within all created things, and the creator, sustainer and destroyer, hence the chosen icon of Shiva.

“Modern physics has shown that the rhythm of creation and destruction is not only manifest in the turn of the seasons and in the birth and death of all living creatures, but is also the very essence of inorganic matter and for the modern physicists, then, Shiva’s dance is the dance of subatomic matter. Hundreds of years ago, Indian artists created different forms of visual images of dancing Shiva in a beautiful series of bronzes.

In our time, physicists have used the most advanced technology to portray the patterns of the cosmic dance. The metaphor of the cosmic dance thus unifies ancient mythology, religious art and modern physics.”

[video=youtube;YVVhvgexpcM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=YVVhvgexpcM#t=0[/video]

There is yet new data which suggests Higgs Boson like particles emanating as the Boson particle deteriorates after collision, so we may have to go smaller yet to find the original particle upon which all creation has always been dependent upon, and dependency is at the very core of h30.

 

[butterfly spider]

Hexagram 29 all changing lines to 30 - to do with a situation involving danger and ancestral healing certainly. The changed hexagram 30 (which is unchanging) denotes forward movement in some way - a clarity of thought brought about by realisation of danger.
A good thread - thank you

 

[Trojina]

Here's an excellent example of 30uc in action from this thread http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?20889-Having-fish-or-no-fish I had been trying to track down a certain thread but could find it nowhere. Lisa found it for me....it was 12 years old ! This is how she found it

I just used my little substitution add-on thingamabob to replace all the Louise's with Trojina .

I read almost all of that thread and never once did my unobservant self suspect anything. And yes, your memory is prodigious, and a little bit fearsome, to be honest .

(It was Yi! I asked about finding it, and got 30-unchanging encouragement. Then some trial-and-error - the key Google was "steve marshall OR biroco 44.2" - top result was a thread in which, amazingly, Val had written out the title of the lost thread. Google site search using the title listed a link to issue 41 of Hilary's old newsletter, which contained the link that worked at archive.org. (The thread does exist in the Clarity archives, but only the first three posts for some reason - none of Steve Marshall's comments.))

(The 30uc, by the way?!...not just encouragement, but "Clarity" - something to do with Hilary's business, other than the forum. Helped me recognize that the newsletter might matter. Isn't that splendid?)

Pretty amazing I thought. That's clarity, clear sight, clear thinking in action....and of course using the connection with the name of Hilary's business and the newsletter.

 

[Yasmin]

30UC is a puzzle to me as well. Here is my current experience of it.

I am thinking of buying a property in a different region, renting it out for awhile, and eventually moving there. I identified a specific area where I would LOVE to live. Every time I walk around that area, which is very green and rolls down gently towards the sea, my heart grows wings and I feel elated. I feel infinite freedom and possibility, liberated. This is how "fired up" I feel about it if that isn't 30ish, I don't know what is! I have been establishing relationships with local estate agents, signaling my interest and budget, researching recent transations etc... And I simply have to wait for something to come on the market. There are many properties, but not necessarily many which fit my budget, so holding out for my dream home is a bit of a gamble. I am prepared to wait at least 6 months, up to 1 year.

Meanwhile, I have been visiting other properties, it would be foolish not explore currently available options. I saw something which is a good property, within my budget, a good investment,and if I don't make a move, it will be gone very fast. It's a good buy, at a pinch I could live in it, but it's not my dream home.

Questionsasked:
- what if I buy this property? 53.3.4>12 I took this as not very encouraging. May not fulfill its promise. At best a stop gap, in a context of stagnation. Probably best to wait.
- What if i hold out for my dream home? 30UC
I chose to understand it as "cling to what makes your heart sing, persevere, cultivate your relationships with agents, manage your cash, success". But it could just as easily be an all consuming pipe dream...

Based on this experience so far, I associate 30Uc with a "heart on fire", in a good way in this instance. Time will tell what becomes of it.

 

[Trojina]

Somewhere or another, on some other thread, Rosada said she saw 30 as 'it depends'. If I've misremembered I hope she will correct me.

Brilliant ! Light bulb moment for me. 30 describes how the fire is dependent on the fuel, so perhaps 30uc can say 'it all depends on caring for the cow, looking after the project, feeding the dream' and so on. It all depends on something ? It isn't a given. Fire won't happen without fuel.

I asked not so long ago if I would continue with an interest I'd been pursuing, can't recall exact question but behind it I was asking if it were worth it I think. 30uc. All depends on what interest I feed what interest I'll carry on with. The cast wasn't saying either;

a. no, this is a waste of time and energy

or

b. wow yes pour more energy in.

I think it was perhaps saying something like 'it all depends'.

30 is light doubled and light is consciousness. Wherever one's consciousness, awareness, attention goes it ignites the subject matter, whatever it is. One could say it ignites, brightens clarifies both subject and matter, even 'matter' in it's solid form....such as a house.

When I used to do boot sales and so on I'd notice if something wasn't selling and move it. I'd noticed when I moved something it would often soon sell. I thought this was to do with me just bringing attention to it. I tried a similar thing when working in a shop recently. If I put things out and they didn't sell after a certain time I'd rearrange the goods and sure enough they would often then sell. However I noticed a weird thing. Sometimes there would be something I was just particularly thinking about moving. I'd have the thought that it hadn't sold and wonder why and then a customer would approach with the thing and buy it. It got to be too specific to just be coincidence. Then I figured maybe when you think about a thing you just loan it a bit of your mind energy, the way the sun loans us it's energy....and this energy makes things more alive, allows synergy, like a spark from a fire.

So in terms of your example every time you think about this

I am thinking of buying a property in a different region, renting it out for awhile, and eventually moving there. I identified a specific area where I would LOVE to live. Every time I walk around that area, which is very green and rolls down gently towards the sea, my heart grows wings and I feel elated. I feel infinite freedom and possibility, liberated.

...a piece of your mind, your consciousness, which is like a spark of fire or a shaft of light, (in fact is that since we are made of stars) infuses that thing with living energy, brings out into reality, makes it real.


So yeah keep on thinking about that place, and see yourself in that place and that place will connect with you. It's all symbiotic see

 

[Trojina]

oh and more specifically think about the house you want, think about it's requirements and so on.

Not in a heavy determined way I read about in those 'visualisation' type manuals...it doesn't work like that. It has to be quite light, playful, daydreaming....what you'd like...what you'd really like..

 

[Liselle]

30 describes how the fire is dependent on the fuel, so perhaps 30uc can say 'it all depends on caring for the cow, looking after the project, feeding the dream' and so on. It all depends on something ? It isn't a given. Fire won't happen without fuel.

Thank you for saying that, Trojina, and for your example, Yasmin. Sometimes I get 30 and I wonder what "being clear" has to do with it - maybe as you say some of those have meant keep the fire burning, don't forget about it, keep it close to you, tend the coals, keep light shining on it...

And in 30's sense of "clinging"...when things are clinging to each other, they depend on each other. In some contexts we think of clinging / being clingy as a negative, but it probably doesn't have to be, always.

 

[Olga Super Star]

A few months ago, after a few not so brilliant casts on potential working companions, I asked: Who are my companions then? 30 unchanging

Of all I've read so far, I could translate is as it depends (on what you will do), and also put some glasses on and go look for them

 

[Trojina]

This is not an actual real life experience but an understanding I 'caught' in that semi conscious state just before waking. It's surprising how often things come to me about Yi at those times. They might be pure brain flotsam or they might sometimes be showing me something. This one felt more like the latter but who knows. Flotsam or not I felt like posting it here.

Someone had mentioned Christmas crackers on a thread about 30 and I half woke with the thought that 30 can be quite like a Christmas cracker. They are pulled from both ends, you pull both ends apart and there's a flash of light and a bang. I thought 30 is pulling things apart like this to discern clearly one thing from another. Not pulling apart in a disintegrating way but pulling apart into two pieces, separating things out. Seeing clearly involves being able to discern one thing from another. When it's dark things in one's room are hard to distinguish, light enables you to see the difference between the table and the chair. I especially like that a Christmas cracker could look a bit like hexagram 30 and I like that there's a flash of light as the two halves separate.

Clearly distinguished through separating into two. A new way for me to think about 30.

 

[rosada]

Noting that Wing calls 30. SYNERGY which means two separate things or events together creating something bigger than the sum of the parts. With synergy the two things are not necessarily related or consciously working together. For example you might be buying a lottery ticket and at that moment you see numbers on a clock. You play those numbers and you win! The two events - the numbers on the clock and the winning numbers for the lottery - didn't cause each other but somehow they seemed connected to you and you won. Perhaps with 30. Synergy the message is that it is up to the observer to to make the connection?

 

[Trojina]

Noting that Wing calls 30. SYNERGY which means two separate things or events together creating something bigger than the sum of the parts. With synergy the two things are not necessarily related or consciously working together. For example you might be buying a lottery ticket and at that moment you see numbers on a clock. You play those numbers and you win! The two events - the numbers on the clock and the winning numbers for the lottery - didn't cause each other but somehow they seemed connected to you and you won. Perhaps with 30. Synergy the message is that it is up to the observer to to make the connection?

Yes I quoted Wing in my first post, although I mostly disagree with her. When you say 30 is 2 separate things or events together creating something bigger than the sum of it's parts to me that sounds more like 50. The sun makes the grass grow which feeds the cows but that doesn't mean the cow is greater than the sun.

I think there is perhaps a paradox in 30 which makes it harder for me to grasp. Bradford names it 'Arising' and among the keywords he lists are : 'individuate, radiate, diverge, separate, contrast, stand out'. I guess in order for one thing to depend upon another it first must be distinguished from it, separated out.

I currently see 30uc as grasping something, 'getting it', distinguishing it. As an answer 'you got it !' perhaps, which in some instances might amount to your lottery ticket example although that would happen on a more subconscious level. I think the 'getting it' in 30 is very aware, very clear and conscious. The 'aha' moment, the flash of illumination.

Lottery ticket win feels more 25 but who knows, it could describe that moment of illumination when the right number is picked.