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Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 31

Trojina

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Thought I'd post 31 and 32 before the Roar of Xmas drowns everything out.

I haven't even ever thought of 31 and 32 as a pair before, I don't know why. I seem to find thinking in terms of the pair helps when I get an unchanging answer....but right now I can't even see how they link.

Lise said of the pair

Coping with influences

31 - to get affected and how to handle it
32 - how to stay on one's course

The only time I can see where I recorded 31 uc as an answer it was exactly that. I was experiencing pain through relating and I asked how to handle it. Tangible pain...that's being affected. It occurred to me mostly the overall idea in the I Ching, seems to be around avoiding being affected. Or maybe commentaries emphasise that. In any case the lines of 31 describe the more painful aspects of being affected. In 31.3 you lose independence, in 31.6 it's all talk etc etc

Anyway...never mind the lines, if you receive 31uc as an answer what thoughts tend to come to you ? I immediately think in terms of push/pull, of being buffeted by water or winds, being swayed by desires yet the trigrams are lake over mountain. I guess how we deal with desire is pretty central to any philosophy the Yi might bring us and so of course 31 and 32 are right at the centre of the book....

I have to look to the Image for any advice re 31 uc..from Hilary's book

'Above the mountain is a lake: Influence
A noble one accepts people with emptiness'

So as an answer to feeling pain in relating 31 uc seems to be saying to make a space for the lake (feeling) by being solid, boundaried, like the mountain below the lake that holds the lake.


Wing says of 31uc as an answer

"In an unchanging form, ATTRACTION indicates it may be necessary to be receptive and open to all that comes into your life at this time. KEN, tranquillity and stillness, is in the lower trigram attracting TUI, joy and pleasure. A tranquil openness allows you to influence and be influenced, bringing the joy of shared experience into your life. This spontaneous mutual influence, perhaps a love affair, must be experienced before there is change."


Well I don't know about that because to be receptive and open to anything it seems from the advice in the Image that one must also have a firm solidity within. That implies to me that some part of you must be like the mountain, impervious and still in order for the lake to exist at all. as Hilary writes on the Image
"The lake can form because the mountain makes space for it, yet still remains inwardly solid. With solid rock in the inside, there can be clear water above; without it, there would only be mud throughout "

Yes I can relate the idea of 31 and mud in my question on feelings.
 

anemos

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I do think is about emotions and how they put us in motion. The image i have is of a unmovable huge rock reflected on a lake and her ripples make him dance.

for me 31u is when I "stop" the mind /rational and just feel, the visceral thinking, to sense where it leads me, what exists in my guts - pure emotions
 

Trojina

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For me, 31 can make me think of these kind of push button puppets

[video=youtube;x2_qgThO55Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=x2_qgThO55Q#t=63[/video]

if I felt pain in the 31 experience I referred to it is the pain of that giraffe
 

Trojina

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...and still on puppets


[video=youtube;oRMoEv44mBo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=oRMoEv44mBo#t=16[/video]

31 can do this to you. I've 'heard' this song internally a few times...
 

anemos

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For me, 31 can make me think of these kind of push button puppets


if I felt pain in the 31 experience I referred to it is the pain of that giraffe


I saw that when i wake up in the middle of the night from severe neck pain.... Poor giraffe.. Ouch !!!! :eek:uch: The timing was bad, lol but I like both videos and the puppet idea. Besides the idea , also the way puppets are made they look like the lines of 31 ( and some of 52 too)
 

rosada

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Looking at Influence, I see the lower trigram, Ken, as a fence, a boundary that lets nothing get in and the upper trigram Tui, as having a small opening at the top that lets a little bit in. So combined it is a feeling of someone saying, "I will open myself up to you a little, superficially, on the outside, Tui, but on the inside I am keeping my core self to myself, Ken."
If we consider the sequence of the hexagrams to be significant then having 31. Influence follow 30. Fire, seems to be showing that when two strong self-sufficient equals meet (30) neither can overpower the other , no one can force their opinion on the other, so for there to be any connection one of the pair must demonstrate a conscious willingness to be open to the other person's influence (31).
 
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anemos

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yes, the capacity to relate, like the mountain contains the lake. I have found in some occasions that 31 isn't always about close/ real relationships but more general and sometimes about people who "know everything" so there there is limited "capacity" to accept ( btw, 31 is opposite to 41 - interesting pair )
 

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About the pairing of 31 and 32: falling in love, and being married. Being inspired to become a musician, and spending hours a day practising, every day, for the rest of your life. Easy enough to moralise about 32, but it wouldn't happen - or wouldn't mean anything - without the 31.

31 unchanging - the first one I can remember is many years back, before I'd experienced bereavement at all, when a friend suffered a miscarriage. Her husband was about to arrive at the door to give me a lift; I asked for help, and had 31 unchanging. I concentrated on the Image, said next to nothing and 'made space' for him. I think this had to do with being available, too, rather than caught up in ideas of how I ought to be responding.

Looking through the journal, I also had 31 unchanging for 'What good are affirmations?' I think that might translate as 'You're moved. (Then what?)'

OTOH, there was 31 uc as a response to 'How to work now?' Background: looking for a way that did not rely on imposing discipline on my reluctant self. So this one said, 'Be moved!'
 

rosada

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I was expecting a supply of groceries to be delivered to my house but when it didn't come and I was going into town anyway I asked the I Ching about stopping at the store in town and loading up - which I really didn't want to do if a week's supply of vegetables was already on the way. I received 31. Influence unchanging. Since we've been seeing unchanging hexagrams as signifying nothing was about to change I believed this was telling me that I need not be influenced to buy anything more. As it worked out we did go into a grocery store as my husband wanted to pick up some other things but the lines were so long se left without making a purchase. I think that fits with the Image for 31 which reads, "The superior man encourages people to approach him by his readiness to receive them." The grocery store lines were long - they were not ready to receive us. (My vegetable order was delivered to my house when we got back so there was no need for me to shop for more anyway - the refridge was full and not ready to receive more!)
 

vikk

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Hi all!
My experience with 31 was the one when the oracle told me to lay off and stop pushing for answers.
I was casting question after question for a while. Then I required on another aspect of my problem and got 31 which seemed to be out of place with the previous readings. Having read James Dekorne interpretation on it i realised that IChing is just telling me to leave it alone and stop pushing for more answers on the matter. I guess the oracle does get tired of us and sends us our own way once in a while to stop exhausting it.
Thank you!
Love, Vikk
 

Trojina

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Hi all!
My experience with 31 was the one when the oracle told me to lay off and stop pushing for answers.
I was casting question after question for a while. Then I required on another aspect of my problem and got 31 which seemed to be out of place with the previous readings. Having read James Dekorne interpretation on it i realised that IChing is just telling me to leave it alone and stop pushing for more answers on the matter. I guess the oracle does get tired of us and sends us our own way once in a while to stop exhausting it.
Thank you!
Love, Vikk

:confused: No 31 doesn't say that....Hexagram 4 might, other answers might, but not 31uc specifically.
So I don't know how Dekorne came to that conclusion.
 

nahema

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When I've received 31 unchanging, it has fallen into the context of attraction/repulsion regardless the situation. Both seem to be present in similar degrees on a continuum; the stronger the attraction, the stronger the anguish, and back and forth.
 

heylise

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Some thoughts on 31:
Xian (its name) is an image of a weapon and a mouth, meaning "to bite", to hurt with the mouth. For wooing, one of its translations, you have to make a strong impression with your mouth: advertising yourself. Being a good kisser seems to help as well.
I don't think it is always about wooing a person for love. There are many situations, day in day out, in which you need self-advertising. So open your mouth and let them know. Don't be too shy.
 

veavea

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I am confused by this hexagram, I've decided. I've looked back through my reading and found it twice in UC form, and they came successively - which is to say they were months apart, and there were many other readings inbetween, but I had 31uc in November 2015 and the next time I got 31 it was again UC but in Jan 2016. Both times I didn't record the question (I was a lot less fastidious then) but the November occasion was the day I was fired from my job, and the January occasion was while my cat was dying, she was put down 2 days later. Although there were other things going on - a new man looked to be entering my life (that situation has never quite resolved) and there were some other positive opportunities.

I suppose maybe this does feel like the bendy giraffe, unsure which way you will be bent next - what I can remember of both occasions is that I felt uncertainty as to what was coming next, and it felt like massive transition - sort of a Death card moment, linking to the Tarot.

So I suppose that does indicate something new coming in - and an end to the old.

James DeKorne says this of 31:

"In the contracting of a marriage between heaven and earth (uniting the polarities within the divided psyche), the ego must learn, usually through great suffering, that its correct role is a magnetic one in relation to that of the Self. The Work cannot progress until this lesson has been learned and accepted completely. As long as the ego insists on taking dynamic initiative “as usual" in the illusory world of appearances, the results can only be the kind of objective world we inhabit -- one of chaos and strife. The lesson of this hexagram then, is the realization that the only correct source of power lies with the Self, and that the ego must yield to that source as a bride to her bridegroom. "

So that makes sense - in both these instances, which were deeply traumatic at the time, I had to let it be and not fight against the new influence that was incoming, that was about a more authentic relationship with myself.
 

veavea

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I'm conscious that my last contribution to this thread wasn't terribly helpful, but I have two new experiences to add: one question back in September was: shall I carry on listening to memories dreams reflections (jung's autobiography on audiobook) and see what inspiration arises? I had previously been ambivalent about the book but ultimately it proved very useful. I listened to the whole book and the influence was positive.

The second instance occurred when I found a lost dog (Fred the beagle) and having brought it home and called the number on its collar (no answer) was worrying about what to do with said dog. I asked yi: 31uc. I felt faintly reassured by this, and sure enough after a little while I was inspired to look outside and saw whom I assumed to be the dog's owners in the street outside. The dog was duly returned and all was well!

The overall sense with these was that a mutual influence was in process.
 
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gene

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Thought I'd post 31 and 32 before the Roar of Xmas drowns everything out.

I haven't even ever thought of 31 and 32 as a pair before, I don't know why. I seem to find thinking in terms of the pair helps when I get an unchanging answer....but right now I can't even see how they link.

Lise said of the pair



The only time I can see where I recorded 31 uc as an answer it was exactly that. I was experiencing pain through relating and I asked how to handle it. Tangible pain...that's being affected. It occurred to me mostly the overall idea in the I Ching, seems to be around avoiding being affected. Or maybe commentaries emphasise that. In any case the lines of 31 describe the more painful aspects of being affected. In 31.3 you lose independence, in 31.6 it's all talk etc etc

Anyway...never mind the lines, if you receive 31uc as an answer what thoughts tend to come to you ? I immediately think in terms of push/pull, of being buffeted by water or winds, being swayed by desires yet the trigrams are lake over mountain. I guess how we deal with desire is pretty central to any philosophy the Yi might bring us and so of course 31 and 32 are right at the centre of the book....

I have to look to the Image for any advice re 31 uc..from Hilary's book



So as an answer to feeling pain in relating 31 uc seems to be saying to make a space for the lake (feeling) by being solid, boundaried, like the mountain below the lake that holds the lake.


Wing says of 31uc as an answer




Well I don't know about that because to be receptive and open to anything it seems from the advice in the Image that one must also have a firm solidity within. That implies to me that some part of you must be like the mountain, impervious and still in order for the lake to exist at all. as Hilary writes on the Image

Yes I can relate the idea of 31 and mud in my question on feelings.

As far as actually getting hexagram 31 as an unchanging hexagram, for me I don't think it has ever happened, and I have done 10's of thousands of readings. But I will have to say there is some really deep thoughts associated with this hexagram. More than I can say here but...

First off, in looking at the two primary trigrams, and there have been some good posts and information in this thread on them, let me say that one of the meanings of the upper trigram is 'joyousness' and the lower is 'keeping still." Joy that is based on momentary considerations is not true joy, it comes and goes on the basis of how we feel in the moment, and that kind of joy does not lead to hexagram 32 which is a 'consistency' hexagram. That kind of joy is dependent on something good happening in the moment. True joy is based on an inner stillness that is consistent (hexagram 32) regardless of the outer situations. And it is that kind of joy that is permanent. (Once again hexagram 32)

The upper trigram also means 'the youngest daughter' and the lower
the youngest son.' It goes without saying that the younger ones have a little less maturity. And as such are a little quick to fall in love so to speak without really understanding all of the consequences or the social rules that go along with creating a permanent or at least a long term situation. So the hexagram guides us in avoiding some pitfalls. As such, the hexagram tells us not to be too quick to run after that which initially catches our fantasy, and both sexes do it although in different ways, men more on the physical level and women more on the emotional and relationship level. (As such, the upper trigram has to do with emotions, the lower, being an 'earth' trigram, relates more to the physical.) As such, we both in our own way need to learn how to be more self contained within, and welcome the higher level joys rather than those based on immediate reaction. It is unwise to move too quickly in any aspect of life, not just relationships, and it is that very reticence, (lower trigram) at the first, that leads to a more stable (lower trigram) relationship of joyousness, (upper) that is long lasting, (hexagram 32)

We can come to understand more in looking at the nuclear trigrams, which create hexagram forty four. It goes to show us that there is always a little bit of temptation involved in relationships, especially the temptation to move too fast, and not be self contained. In our haste we risk destroying the very thing that we are so determined to achieve, which leads to an 'unstable' foundation.

Enough for now.
 

Trojina

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These particular threads are especially for people's experiences...hence the titles. There are inummerable threads where people hold forth on the meaning of a hexagram without connecting it in any way to their own readings. Fair enough but in these particular series of threads we thought we would share how these casts have actually played out for us in many different ways in our own lives.

Of course we will contemplate ours and other's experiences and hence cannot avoid theorising to some extent but I do want to avoid being told 'what it means' on a purely theoretical level here.

I have never seen you once share one of your own personal readings. If you do find an example of a 30uc reading be sure to share it here but I'm not keen for a 'lecture' here personally, not in the purely abstract sense of what 'we' must do anyway.
 

gene

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This is ridiculous. Okay, I will stop posting here as well. I have never heard such nonsense in my life. Just because I haven't got the hexagram doesn't mean I can't apply it to me. You don't need my crap I don't need yours. There is a lot people here could learn from me, but it doesn't seem to be appreciated so I will stop.
 

Trojina

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Well I didn't mean to sound that ungrateful, you must contribute what you feel is useful, after all as you say it may be helpful to someone. I was just hoping you'd have a personal experience with 30uc which would flesh out your ideas
 

gene

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Okay, Trojina

Thanks for sharing that. While I have not had 31 unchanging, that I remember anyway, I have had it with changing lines and those lines have been very in line with the meaning of the hexagram as a whole, but as far as what it meant at those particular times, is very, very personal, and you are right, I rarely speak of personal things online, even on FaceBook. That's just the way I am. If I feel the need to I will. My intention was to help people as a whole here understand the hexagram. It wasn't meant as any kind of criticism of anybody or any type of lecture. I do not wittingly do that here.

Anyway, thanks for responding. If I recognize a need to change something I am doing here, I will. I often come across as arrogant and I recognize that. I have had years of study though, and have forgotten more than most people ever learn. I realize however, that knowledge just for the sake of knowledge is useless, it has to be something that helps our lives. If I come across as arrogant it is not intended. I am not really that way. I will work on it.

But thanks for responding.

Gene
 

gene

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Trojina

I may have had you mixed up with somebody else who used to post on this forum that had a similar name. I haven't seen that person post for a long time. I thought it was you, As I think about it though, it is not. I really apologize. If I hadn't thought you were someone else I wouldn't have reacted as strongly.
 

Trojina

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If you are thinking Trojan yes that is me. My name changed to Trojina a few years ago, a long time ago.
 

gene

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Okay, Trojina

I am sorry for any confusion. Regardless, I should have thought a little before I said anything. Wishing you the best.
 

Trojina

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No problem I should have thought more too but all's well that ends well hopefully :hug:
 
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I was sitting drinking my tea - in one of those moments when there is so much to do, inaction is the best course (hex 52 ish, stilling and mindfulness). I saw this posting and suddenly remembered some 31s of mine that felt terribly relevant. I had 2 children at the time, and was trying to work part-time and was rushing around trying to sell a house, my car had been stolen and everything seemed to be going pear-shaped. I consistently got 31UC - my notebook was filled with 31s - and yet, looking back now, at the photographs of myself and my two children, I looked so happy - joyful. None of the worries from the time could be seen. I almost want to return to being the younger me in the photo -

Now, it could mean that the joy I felt at the time was indeed an inner, consistent happiness, showing clearly in the photographs. The crisis of external issues was just not evident - and why oh why was I not content with all the beautiful things. The car, the job, the house these were really of no consequence.

This makes me feel very 31 ish. Thank you Trojina and Gene for the little debate above, it was extremely useful and very 31 like.
 

Olga Super Star

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Looking through the journal, I also had 31 unchanging for 'What good are affirmations?' I think that might translate as 'You're moved. (Then what?)''

They have an influence on you and reality?
 

Trojina

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Hilary won't necessarily see your question but as you are in CC you can tag her by putting the @ symbol before her name and she will then scamper across like a well trained Labrador.


Looking through the journal, I also had 31 unchanging for 'What good are affirmations?' I think that might translate as 'You're moved. (Then what?)'


I think she is asking 'well where does this get you ?' not that affirmations actually have an influence on anything. Well I don't think she's saying there can be no impact but well it just affects you and then what ? May as well tag her so she can say herself @hilary;
 

hilary

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Mostly I find 31 is about being moved rather than doing the moving. But it does also imply there is a strong bond, a connection - something can 'tug on your heartstrings' only because the strings are well-tied. So maybe with affirmations you create a bond of desire... maybe you also get to have an influence. There's still a 'Now what?' though, even then. If your desire influences reality, in what way? Where are you going with this?
 

Valmar33

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I had decided to ask about the nature of The Ten Thousand Things in relation to Yin, Earth, and Yang, Heaven.

Quite suitably, the I Ching gave me an unchanging 31.

Eldest Youngest Daughter, Lake, flows joyously downwards towards Eldest Youngest Son, Mountain, who flows calmly and firmly upwards. The calm Mountain is receptive to the Lake, which flows with joyful, boundless potential.

Here, it feels as if the two trigrams represent the culmination of progression from their respective sibling and parent trigrams ~ from their young beginnings through their gradual maturation towards wisdom.

Here Earth has influenced Mountain into becoming the wise, introspective Sage who calmly accepts all, while Heaven has influenced Lake into becoming the joyous, bountiful Lady who has bloomed into fullness.

Their marriage leads to a blissful harmony, which yields, most fruitfully, the origin of The Ten Thousand Things.

The entry about the preceding Hexagram, 30, Clarity, also adds very nicely to this:

"There are heaven and earth, and so there are the ten thousand things.
There are the ten thousand things, and so there are man and woman.
There are man and woman, and so there are husband and wife.
There are husband and wife, and so there are father and son.
There are father and son, and so there are ruler and servant.
There are ruler and servant, and so there are above and below.
There are above and below, and so there is a place to hone the correctness of the rituals."

Even the nuclear Hexagram, 44, Coupling, merely adds to this powerful image ~ while in 44, the woman is too powerful to be taken, here, the woman, still powerful, albeit tempered and wise, finds her place in joyous, peaceful compromise.

Curiously, there's a parallel here somewhere to be made between this Hexagram and Hexagram 11, Flowing, Greatness.

There, Heaven and Earth come together in marriage, while here, Mountain and Lake, come together, mirroring that process.
 
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