...life can be translucent

Menu

Your Experiences with Unchanging Castings-Hexagram 44

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
21,386
Reaction score
1,060
I think experiences for 44uc are likely to vary widely. Whatever it is that comes up here you can't marry it, you can't make it an regular on going part of your life, that fits well inside your life. You cannot incorporate it. It's too powerful for you, can run away with you....and of course in short bursts it can thrill and inspire you also.

The most memorable example of 44uc I can think of was from Knot who I think got 44uc for jump starting a car. Hopefully she will show up with the true story. Anyway the gist of it is of course one cannot/would not always start a car this way...it's a brief coupling to get something moving not to hold on to or go on with


So it is something beyond you, too powerful to hold and the flip side of that can be something that attempts to over rule you or undermine your will or even 'undo' you. The woman is a metaphor for something seductive that might inspire you or might enslave you....

Many times I think I personally have seen 44 uc as sudden demands that turn one's life upside down. For example a relative calls who wants to spend the whole of next week staying at your house., I have had 44uc for that kind of thing. So one might find one's own usual routines, one's own space is suddenly disrupted and invaded....One might experience it as either disruptive or exciting depending on the nature of the relationship.. .But whichever way you look at it you cannot carry on as normal and it isn't a condition that can be a usual part of your life. So for example if a relative and friends etc want to stay for a few days it's one thing....er if they then decide they'd like to stay for a few weeks it's another ! Control is something you don't have here. So I have had 44uc re the sudden plans of others that intrude in some way. Sometimes it can feel more like a demand which of course you don't need to say 'yes' too. I think it says in wiki here that it can come up for all those less manageable things that just 'crop up'.

I personally think, depending on what the question is about of course, that one needs to consider carefully what this 'coupling' will bring you and if you can easily opt out of the train of possible obligations it might engender. Hmm for example, I cast 44uc twice regarding someone I once worked for who is trying to extend the connection way beyond what I thought my role in that time/ scenario was/ is. Obligations are something I see as the entrapping aspect of 44.

Wing, who has a section for all hexagrams in unchanging form in her Workbook says of 44 uc

'SUN, penetrating work, in the lower trigram of human affairs, is interacting with the great force of CH'IEN, creative strength, above. In it's static form, this TEMPTATION, may represent a dynamic interaction that finds example in the prolific coming together of positives and negatives. From such encounters, great things are born and order is established. This may represent a renaissance within, a sudden enlightenment, or an encounter of true significance in the outside world. if attitudes are correct and virtuous and no guile or cunning is involved to create imbalance, then this TEMPTATION may well mark the birth of a new era.'


If this is something way too powerful for you to grasp or marry what do you do with it ? It depends on the nature of it I suppose but one possibility is you become an agent for it not owner of it. This might tie in with artistic inspiration for example, or any kind role where you are the agent or messenger for something far bigger.

Taking the Image from Hilary's book

'Below heaven is the wind :Coupling.
The prince sends out mandates and commands to the four
corners of the earth.'

The wind travels everywhere under heaven and penetrates every corner of the world. The prince receives the mandate, orders from heaven, and it penetrates to his core and travels through him. He cannot control or contain such power, but he can broadcast it to change his whole realm.


I think there will many ways to experience 44uc ? Can you recall any times you received it as an answer and what you made of it at the time ?
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
21,386
Reaction score
1,060
BTW it's not that easy for me to see 43/44 as a pair...not in the obvious way that 41/42 are a pair for example. Maybe in 43 it's about you choosing/deciding/declaring for yourself and in 44 your identity, your choice, your decision on the matter, is subsumed by this 'other' factor.
 
S

sooo

Guest
44's a bitch. Maybe if 43 doesn't get her say, that undercurrent develops into a strong will and determination. I know that's how I generally feel when I get 44. It may be excessive, but with the support of the prince, that intermediary between heaven and earth, his commands go forth to the four quarters of heaven like the wind, and that can sometimes have a creative outcome. But without that support, that lean pig must be restrained. No harm in asking, though demanding is not such a good idea.
 

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
I got 44uc once in a way that sounds a lot like your introduction, Trojina.

Our boss at work (the head person in our office) asked us all to try to come up with ways to improve something. I had an idea, asked Yi about it ("Yi, what about that idea I had for ___?"), and got 44uc. I think it was a "one-word-answer" piece of advice to me.

I ended up concluding that I shouldn't make the suggestion, for several reasons: for one, it would mean increased work for other staff members, but it was work I couldn't (and never would) share in. So, I'd be suggesting that everyone else do extra work? That would go over well :rolleyes:.

Also, while our boss did ask the entire staff for suggestions, he probably didn't really mean me. My role in the office was tangential to the problem he was trying to solve. Just because I was in the room when this discussion took place didn't mean I should "marry" it (or something like that - not sure I'm connecting this to the text properly).

The Image could apply here, too, because implementing my suggestion would mean involving other office locations ("the four corners of the earth," not literally of course). It would be very little additional work for the other offices, but our own office would have to contact the others on a regular basis to get small bits of information - it would be work for us.

In and of itself, my idea may have had some impact on the area our boss was trying to improve. But I think the reading was telling me it wouldn't have helped enough to override these other considerations.

In other readings, I think Yi has given me 44uc on several occasions to tell me that I was getting much too "intense" about this or that. (And presumably that I should stop "coupling with" the topic.)

I also have rather poor notes indicating that 44uc may have once been referring to a literal business-type meeting, and another where my notes say, "Does this refer to the spot where the two things meet each other, or join up?" having to do with physical objects.
 
Last edited:

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
I ended up concluding that I shouldn't make the suggestion, for several reasons: for one, it would mean increased work for other staff members, but it was work I couldn't (and never would) share in. So, I'd be suggesting that everyone else do extra work? That would go over well :rolleyes:.

My source for this part was a computer program I downloaded years ago, called "The I Ching Empower Tool" by Roger Norton Consulting. I'm not sure how good their commentary is in general, and I use the program mostly for casting, but in this case it seemed very relevant:

"A playful Zephyr dances
and delights beneath
indulgent Heaven:
A Prince who shouts orders
but will not
walk among his people
may as well try to command
the four winds.


A strong, addictive temptation,
much more dangerous
than it seems."

Part of Wilhelm-Baynes' Image commentary touches on the same idea, but makes it sound like a good thing, or at least neutral:

"The ruler is far from his people, but
he sets them in motion by means of his commands and decrees."

So there's a discrepancy, and I can't be completely sure which is more correct, but it's years later and I'm still relieved I didn't act like a brazen hussy and actually make that suggestion.
 
Last edited:

knotxx

Senior member
Joined
Sep 3, 2006
Messages
1,256
Reaction score
50
that's really interesting! yeah 44uc is a funny one. I think of it as the GALVANIZING hexagram (maybe literally, because of my jumpstart experience), but you have to give some thought as to what you're being GALVANIZED to do. Anxiety/fear is highly galvanizing, for example. So is something like cocaine or speed.

My jumpstart story is really just what trojan said. Back when I was first using the yi, like many beginners, I would get too emotionally fraught about the hexagrams -- 47 OMG I'M GOING TO PRISON? 42 OMG I'M WINNING THE LOTTERY? kind of thing.

So to train myself out of that I used to just ask about everyday things, like "how will my lunch hour go"--so that I could see how the lines could apply in very small, undramatic situations. Once I got 44uc for how my lunch would go--SCARY!--and when I walked down to the parking lot of my building, a woman asked me to jump-start her car with mine, and I did.

That jumpstart fit SO well with the image of 44, for me -- as trojan said, an intrusion of great force that by its very nature can't last for long. And whatever you do, don't GRAB it.

The other times I've written down that I got 44uc seem to be warning me about emotional drama. For example, when I ask some oft-asked question (about money problems for example) that tends to send me into a freak-out anxiety spiral, I'll get 44uc. DANGER DANGER!

In fact just a couple of weeks ago I asked "what do I need to know about my fears about the future" and got 44uc.

This thread is reminding me, though, that there can be great power in engaging briefly and carefully with (say) my worries about money -- that maybe those worries are galvanizing me toward some objective, if I could just figure out what it is.
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
21,386
Reaction score
1,060
Ricciao reminded me in the 19uc thread that looking at the complementary hexagram can be useful in considering the unchanging hexagram....(also the shadow but I'm less sure of that)

The complementary or opposite hexagram to 44 is 24. I see it as 24 takes us back to centre and 44 can blast us far far away from centre (echoes of the prince broadcasting ? maybe not) If something is going to catapult you from your core it's the 44 experience ...but that could be ;

galvanising
exciting
overwhelming
uncontrollable
tempting
invasive
another agenda coming in and it ain't yours
pushiness towards you
and maybe you to it
intensity from the force of it, an intensity that cannot last but might ignite something else
a nuisance



and lots of other words too I imagine ????

I include 'nuisance' as I feel 44 can include things that totally derail your day, derail your agenda by their immediate demand for attention....stuff like pipes bursting and so on. Well I have never had 44 for burst pipes so that is a purely illustrative example.
 
Last edited:

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
22
there is an acquaintance of mine for whom I've receive some 44s as relating and unchanging too. the last one was this morning , after getting a 33 yesterday.
A little background story: She has an obsession with a guy and actually they have not a relationship but she wishes to have one. Her behavior, imo, is not the normal " madly in love". Sometimes she recognized that but back again to those crisis that when occur and its too often they do, she totally lose touch with simple realities. I have been open to her , express my worries, and told her that I don't judge her but I cannot participate in that madness. She comes to her senses, ask for help but .. of we go again.

I asked : what is going on with her, just to get a clear pic . Answer 44un
there are two ways I read this reading Either its about me and says go away or a description of the scattered and obsessive behavior or her overly " creative" mind that makes a long story if she happens to see this guy with another woman ( he is a public figure and meets with men and woman- naturally)

this Tuesday , having a personal health issue took the day off to stay in bed. She wake me up and wanted to analyze what might mean the three dots (...) at the end of the sms that guy send to her - :brickwall: in a very demanding way , ignoring the fact i was in pain, was sleeping etc. Some other friends and myself too try to help her, she even agreed when we see that she goes nuts to reminder her , so at that particular phone call, said her there is nothing to worry and stop thinking about it. Speaking to a wall the chances to be heard were greater . She got angry and hopefully she won't call again.

Obviously, I have ignored the past readings with those 44 and asked again for what is the best attitude I should keep towards her just in case she appears again. Got 33 and this morning trying to clarify more that 33 got 44un. :rolleyes: ; "GET out of there !!! " i hear Yi's voice .

I though that we could somehow help her - being kind of the prince but she seems she enjoys that so the only solution I see is the Exit door. Kind of sad about it but she mess up with my time and peace so i believe Yi says, the obvious , ahem, to stay away.
 

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
Anemos, as I was reading your story, I was thinking, oh dear, this woman has a crush on some sort of celebrity :freak: --- but the guy texts her??? So...they actually know each other and he's encouraging her???
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
22
he has responded 10 times the past 2,1/2 years and I know by heart each of them.... ;)
they have never met and doesn't feels like he pursue her and he is in a very new relationship. Her determination is unbelievable and we all wish her to succeeded its its the best for her, but we can't help but worry for the obsession. one photo is published 5 phonecalls to 4 friends to analyze Everything . Its her life, and she can live it the way she wishes, but being a part of this is not good for me. this is how I see those 44s .
 

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
How did she ever even get his phone number, etc. etc. etc. (That's a rhetorical question, lol.)

Seems to me that the hex 44s, particularly for questions like, "What is going on with her?" probably just mean "she's obsessed - she's in the middle of a compulsion." A simple description of her (her behavior is also disruptive to you, so in that way it's describing you too, but my guess is that it's mostly describing her.)

The hex 33s that you get do seem like advice to you - withdraw from this, refuse to be a sounding board. Maybe if she gets angry at you for it, and therefore stops calling (a "withdrawl" on her part, too), it might help matters? Any engagement in this issue by you and her other friends might just fuel her obsession.

Odds are that she'll have to get over it eventually, and then she'll realize you were right all along. (I hope.)
 

Tohpol

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Jan 25, 2007
Messages
3,562
Reaction score
31
Perfect 44 situation. Not much love here...

It's actually quite dangerous to be around someone who is so obsessed. I suppose the only way out is for her to reach such a point of suffering that she chooses not to do it anymore. But it doesn't look like she's near that point yet as she's still getting something out of it. Very sad.
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
22
How did she ever even get his phone number, etc. etc. etc. (That's a rhetorical question, lol.)

I can't tell you because she might hear our advise and use that creativity on writing a book. how she manage to get his phone its an interesting story ! She is very talented on that and I have - very serious- said that to her among other activities to distract herself from those thoughts.

Perfect 44 situation. Not much love here...

It's actually quite dangerous to be around someone who is so obsessed. I suppose the only way out is for her to reach such a point of suffering that she chooses not to do it anymore. But it doesn't look like she's near that point yet as she's still getting something out of it. Very sad.

yes, it must be her choice. She needs to find the "prince" of 44 inside her.I just can't help her. very sad indeed.

Being in a 44 situation is not that easy. There is that feeling that I can't fins a proper word to describe it - something very intensive. I have felt it when certain image were in my mind and couldn't paint them and in this 44 situation and i can see it here, in this thread, from the experience we have all share. it feels like you can't breath easily. That OMG, knot said.

That OMG might sound funny, but thinking more seriously, you need help from heaven .
 

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
how she manage to get his phone its an interesting story !

Do you have his phone number? Has she ever shown it to you? This might be ridiculous, but what if you texted him, and asked him to please stop responding to her, because she has an out-of-control crush on him and his responses are encouraging her?

(I do understand he doesn't mean it to encourage her, and to him it's probably harmless meaningless drivel, but still.)
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
21,386
Reaction score
1,060
this Tuesday , having a personal health issue took the day off to stay in bed. She wake me up and wanted to analyze what might mean the three dots (...) at the end of the sms that guy send to her - in a very demanding way , ignoring the fact i was in pain, was sleeping etc


Obviously, I have ignored the past readings with those 44 and asked again for what is the best attitude I should keep towards her just in case she appears again. Got 33 and this morning trying to clarify more that 33 got 44un. ; "GET out of there !!! " i hear Yi's voice .

Mmmm yes, sounds familiar I got 44uc twice for someone who isn't hearing me say 'go away' in all the polite ways that signal 'go away'.

Do you have his phone number? Has she ever shown it to you? This might be ridiculous, but what if you texted him, and asked him to please stop responding to her, because she has an out-of-control crush on him and his responses are encouraging her ?

I think that would be way out of Maria's 'remit' wouldn't it ? I mean I think that would mean her getting more drawn in whereas the advise seems to be for her to do 33 to avoid the 44. Also that would seem a high handed action....I mean that would be pretty 44ish. I can't see it would be Maria's place to do that.

It looks like a classic 44 scenario....this friends agenda is attempting to over ride Maria's own agenda...which was to rest.

There must be 44 casts where the interruption is enlivening but I have to say I have seen it mostly with this kind of thing.
 

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
I think that would be way out of Maria's 'remit' wouldn't it ? I mean I think that would mean her getting more drawn in whereas the advise seems to be for her to do 33 to avoid the 44. Also that would seem a high handed action....I mean that would be pretty 44ish. I can't see it would be Maria's place to do that.

Yes...it probably is ridiculous. I guess in the back of my mind I was thinking to fight hex 44 with a bit of your own 44, maybe...but you're right. And what's more, what if he then texted Maria's friend and said, "Guess what, I just got a text telling me to stop texting you!" Okay - bad idea. Sorry.
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
22
Do you have his phone number? Has she ever shown it to you? This might be ridiculous, but what if you texted him, and asked him to please stop responding to her, because she has an out-of-control crush on him and his responses are encouraging her?

(I do understand he doesn't mean it to encourage her, and to him it's probably harmless meaningless drivel, but still.)

No, I don't wish to interfere between them. She is an adult. if she is having fun its not my business. Obviously she is happy with this situation. I have be very open with her and what i share here is what i have told her - and more....
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
22
Mmmm yes, sounds familiar I got 44uc twice for someone who isn't hearing me say 'go away' in all the polite ways that signal 'go away'.

Yes, because I didn't take seriously enough the advise of the older reading. I mean you know what oit says but for some reasons I didn't cut communication . The Aha moment was the other day. My dog pick up that i wasn't feeling well and was sleeping and once in a while was jumping in my bed and quietly kept me company. She was mute ! and then her phone call and the anger because I wasn't in a position to discuss the 3 dots thingy.

The dog could Understood and a human with advanced brain no !!!

That was when I thought " what the hell I'm doing ??? " :duh: and started thinking again the 44s .
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
22
No, I don't wish to interfere between them. She is an adult. if she is having fun its not my business. Obviously she is happy with this situation. I have be very open with her and what i share here is what i have told her - and more....

woops, cross posting.

no worries :)
 

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
The dog could Understood and a human with advanced brain no !!!

Dogs are too sensible to get mixed up in 2 1/2 year long obsessive celebrity crushes. :bows:
 
S

sooo

Guest
Slightly trite, but since on the subject of animals...

Of course this hexagram is not gender specific other than symbolically. I think the only reason 44 is linked with the woman is the generic link between emotions and woman, and man (prince) with thinking, and we each have both parts within.

But something just happened that made a little light turn on in my head. A woman friend stopped by to help me feed the livestock. The horses are easy once you figure out their pecking order, but the calves are something else. We feed them large baby bottles of formula three times a day. There's a cow and a bull, and they grow really fast, so they get more pushy all the time. The woman came into the front door as I went out to feed them through the back door, so we missed each other. I called her and we had a good laugh about it. When I mentioned how the cow lazily laid there awhile while the bull fed, and when the cow came for hers, the bull was finished with his, and started bucking her and I to get to her bottle, my friend said "that's why they call it bullying." So obvious, yet it had never occurred to me so literally before. "Of course!" I exclaimed, as hex 44 came to my mind. This bitch was a bull! It was up to me, the prince in this case, to determine that the cow would get hers while the bull got locked into the small pen.

44.6 Encountering with horns - embarrassing (humiliating to the bull) - but no harm was done. (from Bradford)
 

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
@Sooo - I like your ranch stories :D. Wouldn't want to live there, but I enjoy hearing about it.
 

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
I don't even make a dandy kitty wrangler! (Just ask the kitties.)
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
22
Dogs are too sensible to get mixed up in 2 1/2 year long obsessive celebrity crushes. :bows:

:rofl:

It really stroked me the comparison between my dog's sensitive manners and my ex-friends ( hopefully) rudeness. Loki ( my dog) brought my "prince" :)
 

Trojina

Supporter
Clarity Supporter
Joined
May 29, 2006
Messages
21,386
Reaction score
1,060
44 can be invasion....in fact it's always invasion of some kind IMO it's just some invasions are more productive and enjoyable than others so we call them 'inspirations' or something instead.

I couldn't help noticing that there are 5 uc experiences threads at the top of the 'Exploring Divination' forum ...,and there is 1 thread on uc hexagrams generally.....so it seems apt in some way to me that at the time we come to 'your experiences with 44uc ' thread there is what might look like an invasion of the uc threads. I mean anyone who popped in at this particular moment in time would think we were totally obsessed with the topic. Also of course these 5 threads do form a picture of 44uc...or something like it.

By the time I post this it may have changed of course and no one will know what I'm talking about....but at this particular moment the uc threads have invaded Exploring Divination

:eek:


When we to get to 45uc thread presumably we can expect to see the uc threads to gather together in clusters.

Yes I like the idea they have a mind of their own and are forming themselves to the pattern of the hexagram we are 'on to'....like a flock of starlings or something
 

chingching

visitor
Joined
Nov 24, 2010
Messages
1,357
Reaction score
26
i have recieved 44uc Three times all of which were in relation to a man I had an intense short mainly just sex romance with, i just looked at my journal and they sat one at the beginning one at the end and one when we started to organise meeting again. I guess if i had just understood the reading at the beginning i wouldnt have had to cast any further, yi was clearly saying this affair was just 44uc.

I can testify that much of what has been said by everyone above came into play, even what wing said about the upshot however the events for me still contain the downfall. In the beginning it was amazing, before we were together romantically we had two months of long conversations across our studios spaces at an artists collective at night when no one else was around. When we finally got together it was full of romance and great sex. After 3 months of that the darkness started to creep in, he tried to turn me to eating meat, and he was successful and this started a 9 month decline in my health, because i just do better as a vego, and i have only just got back on track with my eating ( not all due to him of course, but the second reding of 44uc coincided with the decline) his issues became very apparent, but not awful, i mean i expected at this point the demons would start to show their faces, and my bad memories came back in a very intense way and i was deep in my own shadowlands, not a fun time, but a revealing one.

The third came when we got in contact again and he mentioned he was afarid he would probably hurt me again, which wasnt really the truth, it was more that a mutual chemical reaction between us led to the deep and we triggered each other like vinegar and bicarb, and i ended up saying best if we dont meet up.

We both really wanted to remian friends but that might not be able to happen for a while. I still cherish the time i had with him though and it gave me a solid sense of sexual confidence which i did not have before. But yeah if I had given more weight to the reading I would have taken things a little slower ( but I'm only human, the attraction was very strong) and would have maybe gotten some conselling for the stuff that came up for me because I took it out on him at the end, which is 44 the bitch ( but not without truth and insight to what i had to say to him) , he also layed some stuff out on me and he started going to his aa meetings to get support for himself.

I wish i had done something similar because i think a greater transformation could have taken place, and in a shorter time, but at this time, now that I am fully back in my groove, I appriciated all that it did change within me. He was a core shaker, if not for only a short time.

He went onto to do awesome things, in fact he sky rocketed after he left, fulfilling his long held dreams and getting over some major fears.

I still hope to be friends at a later time. But definitely not one to marry!
 
Last edited:

Liselle

visitor
Clarity Supporter
Joined
Sep 20, 1970
Messages
7,003
Reaction score
636
I mean anyone who popped in at this particular moment in time would think we were totally obsessed with the topic.

We are! We shall defeat the dastardly things. *shakes fist* :rofl:

(Or not. 44 seems much more like Do Not Mess With Me :demon: )
 

anemos

visitor
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
2,316
Reaction score
22
I guess if i had just understood the reading at the beginning i wouldnt have had to cast any further, yi was clearly saying this affair was just 44uc.

you are not the only one . must be part of the 44 fabric .
A very 44 experience with the positive and negative aspects. thanks for sharing
 

Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom

Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).

Top