Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).
My view is that the Yi always answers for highest good in any situation, I do not think it aids one in plots to manipulate unless it were in accord with that good.
So, if I ask: "What does Trojan think and feel about me REALLY?" and I draw 14.6 that doesn't mean you like/approve of me, it means that by asking that question I'm on the right track?
Careful...you might inspire Luis to post a picture of someone in a teeshirt...
More to the point. What is an inappropriate question or Oracle answer? Generally, if the Yi dislikes your question it has its own range of ways to rebuke the you for it.
"* The Yi will reveal to you only the information about other people that is *already* resident in your own mind at some (usually unconscious or faintly perceived) level"
I believe the oracle only reveals to you what is present within you. It's not friggin' magic!
So, if I have never meet the other person I am asking about, then where does the information about that person come from?
Well, something here is friggin magic that is for sure, so you decide what or who it is.
So, if I have never meet the other person I am asking about, then where does the information about that person come from?
Well, something here is friggin magic that is for sure, so you decide what or who it is.
Inappropriate: anything that uses the oracle for the sort of manipulation/calculation the ego loves.
Appropriate: anything that uses the oracle to add to consciousness of one's real Self.
Yi cops comin' to bust *your* funky butt toute de suite, Crowley-head!
Hi Rickmatz,"* The Yi will reveal to you only the information about other people that is *already* resident in your own mind at some (usually unconscious or faintly perceived) level"
I believe the oracle only reveals to you what is present within you. It's not friggin' magic!
This BS about ego manipulation vs. real Self is just silly.
I believe the oracle only reveals to you what is present within you. It's not friggin' magic!
And you're rude.
As to: "So, if I have never meet the other person I am asking about, then where does the information about that person come from?
The second you meet someone for the first time, you make a thousand inferences and judgements. Anything you've interpreted from the I Ching is a reflection of that.
Hi Dobro,
At least you are systematically dogmatic. Have you no shame about invoking police forces about the private use of Oracle divination? You really think making prejudicial judgments about what is proper and what is evil ego isn't fundamentally and karmically rude to the MAX?
Oh well, life goes on. I have a better, Yi style alternative for you and Rickmatz. Those of us who find your perspectives peculiar can always to go our divination and ask the Yi for the rude or inappropriate or outside-our-own mind insight into other folks deepest darkest secrets they are denying or avoiding and let the Yi Spirit give us whatever answer its Trickster personality feels would be good, right, fun or just silly for us to get in reply.
I asked the oracle, "How does Frank really feel about readings for other people?" and got 28.1,3 > 58. 28 says the outside edge is fragile, in other words, our speculation is based on appearances rather than Frank's true nature of spiritual inner strength. 28.1 says it's necessary to be super-cautious with a heavy load so the floor or foundation does not break. 28.3 says the roof is about to cave in. In other words, the oracle says that our speculation about Frank gives us nothing to stand on and can't support any sheltering truth. In contrast, 58 refers to "joining with friends for discussion."
This reading conclusively shows that instead of using a reading to speculate about Frank's point of view, we should ask Frank directly in a two-way dialog.
So, Frank, did the trickster oracle say anything accurate about why we shouldn't do readings for other people?
Okay, call it Trickster. I think you're projecting your own personality onto the Yi though lol. I think you like to think you're in a Trickster role, when more probably you're just indulging your own ego's desire to needle people and get at them. You call my idea BS, but it's not - the ego's famous for trying to manipulate outcomes, and the real Self (did you take the trouble to ask me what I meant by that term before you trashed it?) is famous for not caring much about outcomes at all - it just watches and oversees and centers and IS. So much for your digressions and smokescreens.
To return to my original post though, you seemed to answer part of it when you said: "Generally, if the Yi dislikes your question it has its own range of ways to rebuke the you for it." That view's in line with one of the ideas I described in my first post, and it intrigues me, cuz if it's true it offers me more room to work in. So, instead of going into your irritating pot-stirring mode, how'd you like to make yourself useful and elaborate on 'its own range of ways to rebuke you for it"?
You wonder why I don't ask about your notion of real Self? That would be a grossly impertinent question to raise?
Hm? You call one of my most useful ideas BS, but you have scruples and qualms about checking my terminology before launching an attack? That is so screwed up. You're not only rude, but you lack basic strategies for successful communication.
What you see as my irritating pot-stirring mode, is more likely just my natal timing (horoscope) where I automatically tend to expose folks more vulnerable spots--it isn't anything conscious or even personal to me, just my planets making themselves clear.
I believe this so far as it goes, except in one particular. If you know it's the effect of your horoscope at work, then it's not completely unconscious, and to the extent that you're conscious of it, you're responsible for it.
I can't imagine any of us being fascinated by the Yi for more than a year let alone decade after decade--if we didn't feel the magic and see it proved in specific oracles and situations.
{bold added}Well, I'm studying the Yijing for about 25 years now and I have never seen any 'magic' in it (what's the meaning of that word anyway?). It would worry me if it would contain or use 'magic'. I see magic as something extraordinary, something which seemingly is in contrast with what we perceive as 'normal'.
But the Yi is about the ordinary. It tells you what the essence is of the situation, helping you to see what matters and what doesn't. It tells you about what is at hand, not about what is far away. What it gives you can easily be seen but often we blindfold ourselves for different reasons. If we were able to follow the Dao we would regard everything as obvious, as natural. We would not see things as 'magic', such categorisation would not be necessary. The answers of the Yi would be obvious, not remarkable. Yet the Yi can teach us to follow the Dao. In that way the Yi exists to make itself superfluous.
Harmen.
"ego manipulation vs. real Self" is one of your most useful ideas? OK, I just disagree totally with your premises then. Real Self is a traditional philosophical term and generally considered a private matter. You have a personal definition in contrast to yucky "ego" that is your thing. I did research on Ego in terms of Freud, I don't find any use of the terms anything but fiction. Different strokes for different folks.Hm? You call one of my most useful ideas BS, but you have scruples and qualms about checking my terminology before launching an attack? That is so screwed up. You're not only rude, but you lack basic strategies for successful communication.
Frank, I've tried a couple of things in this thread to try to find out more about you, find out more about how you deal with things, and here's what I've found:
* It's really hard to keep you on-topic. You offered very little in answer to my original question in this thread, and when I challenged you on it, you offered even less...
This means that for my purposes, you're not very much fun, and you're not very useful to me, in the sense of a person it's useful to bounce ideas off. You're mostly a lot of words.
Here's something else that might be useful for you to know, though. Although I think you get things wrong sometimes, I don't think you're stupid. And although we disagree about lots, I don't dislike you.
And the postscript: if you base your psychological understanding on the work of Freud, then you won't begin to understand people like me who base a lot of their understanding on the work of Carl Jung. When I talked about the Self, it referred to something very much like the Self described in Jungian literature.
So, Frank, did the trickster oracle say anything accurate about why we shouldn't do readings for other people?
I am still waiting for an answer to my inquiry of just how much do you agree with Nazi philosophy. The folks I met in Europe studying the Cathars were either survivors of the Nazi occupation and resisted as they could-- who found the subject important for them to understand, or younger folks who truly believed their philosophy was a good idea and even accepted the arbitrary use of mass murder as OK when done for the good of society--So where is your Cathar interest? Are you just funning about police powers to enforce your notions of what is proper Yi use, or do you have dreams of...
In an attempt to add a bit of levity to a rather ponderously serious discussion...
(which, perhaps, should have stayed in a most sombre mood, undisturbed by my pursuit of humor through irony)...
I thought it might, perhaps, be humorously ironic to ask the Yi about the person who vigorously says it's inappropriate to ask the Yi about other people.
Those of us who find your perspectives peculiar can always to go our divination and ask the Yi for the rude or inappropriate or outside-our-own mind insight into other folks deepest darkest secrets they are denying or avoiding and let the Yi Spirit give us whatever answer its Trickster personality feels would be good, right, fun or just silly for us to get in reply.
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).