is the nosiness ineffective, or inappropriate?

[Sparhawk]

If I criticized Luis for going into my desk and reading my personal diary at work, would you call me a Nazi? If you did, you'd be very mistaken, I think.

Gee, all this attention...

You mean you have a personal diary you are hiding from me?? Watch out, buddy, I'll get to it...

 

[rickmatz]

But when I read for someone on the internet then I have never ever physically met them and therefore cannot form any opinion about them at all, so please tell me how I get my information about them or about another person they are asking about? I guess it just plain friggin magic don't you think.

The instant you read something I had posted, before you might have cast a hexagram to look into the depths of my soul, you made formed an opinion of me based on a few lines of my text reflected by your interior landscape.

No magic; just being human.

Now I'm going to be away from the computer for a few days, so please don't think me rude if I can't say any more until next week, if this thread is still going.

Have a good weekend.

Best Regards,

Rick

 

[fkegan]

Hi Dobro,
I got confused between your police comments and Topal's Cathar comments, Sorry. When a U.S. Supreme Court justice says torture interrogation cannot be cruel and unusual punishment, or any punishment, since it is just done for information (no harm in asking is a great old aphorism in the law) it is easy for me to get touchy. Joking about rope in a time of lynchings isn't good fun.

I never meant to call you a Nazi (and I didn't--I asked you to clarify your principles in terms of the Cathars), just that you seemed a bit excessive calling for police action to enforce what you felt was other folks invasion of even other folks privacy. When you don't think it is very important, what did you mean saying, Yeah they are coming to get you since you are posting on an international site and we can get away with it still


When Luis invades your private journal by his Wizardry and you try to call the non-existent police corps on him, I would never call you a Nazi--a sillybilly surely, never anything political. So, what kinds of juicy gossip do you keep in that work journal?

As a note, the Cathars were a medieval heresy that made a big deal of their sacrifice to improve Europe when they were hunted down and destroyed for being different. The inner circle of the Nazis claimed they were just doing the same thing in their time, never intended to win WWII just move things along in an orgy of blood. They Cathars aren't cited much any more in general terms.

I am enjoying going back over my ancient personal history, too. Gia-Fu reached back in his memory to catch up on his original Taoist training. Then he realized all sorts of other stuff in the process--its fun.
Frank

 

[ben_s]

Or did you mistake some of my Dobro quotes for my statements?

I might well have done that. This has been a very trying, confusing, topsy-turvy week both personally and professionally. Some of that confusion might have spilled over to my posts here. After I rest up this weekend, I'll reread the thread with a more relaxed attitude. Sorry if I blustered in and ruffled feathers.

 

[fkegan]

Or did you mistake some of my Dobro quotes for my statements?

I might well have done that. This has been a very trying, confusing, topsy-turvy week both personally and professionally. Some of that confusion might have spilled over to my posts here. After I rest up this weekend, I'll reread the thread with a more relaxed attitude. Sorry if I blustered in and ruffled feathers.

Hi Ben-s,
Those recent posts and responses were indeed extreme and bizarre, by me as well as others, useful to go over them and figure out what was going on. Other than the errant winds of goofiness blowing about.

Frank

 

[ben_s]

Those recent posts and responses were indeed extreme and bizarre, by me as well as others...

Well, Frank, it's nice to know it's not just me. I suppose from a Jungian point of view, maybe the reason my outer world encountered "extreme and bizarre" messages from outside was that my own opinions were jumbled up inside?

useful to go over them and figure out what was going on
Nah, I think inspirational threads are like busses. I missed out on this one, but there will be another one that shows up in 17 minutes or so...

 

[fkegan]

Those recent posts and responses were indeed extreme and bizarre, by me as well as others...

Well, Frank, it's nice to know it's not just me. I suppose from a Jungian point of view, maybe the reason my outer world encountered "extreme and bizarre" messages from outside was that my own opinions were jumbled up inside?

useful to go over them and figure out what was going on
Nah, I think inspirational threads are like busses. I missed out on this one, but there will be another one that shows up in 17 minutes or so...

Hi Ben,
At least you are consistent. Mess up one thread and just expect someone else will run a new one by for you without any obligation on your part to learn anything from the experience? OK--tat tvam asi. [In the personally descriptive not the Braman =Atman universal.]

Frank

 

[ben_s]

A heartfelt exit to the bus stop

Frank,

I pointed out that occasionally an online thread gets tangled...
and sometimes, when I'm extraordinarily run down in some of the most difficult life circumstances I've ever faced, I don't perfectly have all my words in order...
but in this case, it seems that maybe the tangle of this thread really isn't entirely my fault...
and sometimes, there are things tangled up, but they're not my calling nor obligation to fix...
which by the way, is a major life lesson for me to learn: how to NOT get pushed into apologizing for other people's issues, nor goaded into dropping everything just because someone proclaimed I SHOULD do what they decided is right for me, without asking me about my values or goals...
and sometimes, active message boards have additional topics... and that some confusion in any one topic, isn't necessarily a problem.

Are you seriously suggesting that there's some great life lesson to be learned here, that I'm arrogantly too proud to learn because I'll move on to another thread on this message forum?

If so, with all due respect, I'd have to disagree.


I think I'm already doing my fair share of learning...
and of having my values tested, by extremely difficult situations, situations involving extremely difficult, pathological people, and major disease situations, and major financial crises - issues that rip my life apart, stab me in the heart, and confront my deepest fears to the core, and have for most of the past decade now...

and with all due respect, I really don't see what life lesson, what important issue, is unhandled to my detriment, left undone to my shame, broken in a way that hurts other people, immoral in a way only I could fix... if only I was willing to see it, in this very thread.

You already indicated that other people, including yourself, had made this particular thread tangled.
While I'm sad to see that, I don't see untangling this thread - pondering my role in the tangle - seeking to find wisdom in what you've repeatedly proclaimed is the defects in my heart, spirit, and motivation - is more important than my other confrontation-free opportunities for personal growth - on and off this site.

If you'd like to offer your professional counseling services to me on a pro bono basis, I'd be happy to consider the offer. But no way am I going to stand for being told - not asked, told - what I think, feel, mean, intend, and decide - based on nothing more than a handful of misinterpretations of my comments in this thread. Misinterpretations repeated, after I repeatedly explained where I was actually coming from. Where I come from, that's a psychological boundary violation, and I don't accept it regardless of a person's educational or professional expertise.

I'm outta this thread. If you'd like to ASK me what I think and feel, in another thread or by private message, you're welcome to do so. If you'd like to TELL me what I think and feel, without the courtesy of asking, I'll do myself the courtesy of ignoring those comments.

If my great life lesson could ONLY have come from figuring out what to learn from this thread...
a lesson that ONLY YOU could possibly teach me...
only here, and only now...
then I'll go to my grave ignorant.

 

[mudpie]

Mess up one thread and just expect someone else will run a new one by for you without any obligation on your part to learn anything from the experience? OK--tat tvam asi.

I don't think anybody has the power to "mess up a thread", least of all Ben whose thoughts I enjoy...and he did offer the fact that encountering "extreme and bizarre" is likely a reflection, thats good enough.

I dont think he got off track, either, except to confuse Dobro's stance with Frank's supposed stance. which is when it got confusing. you, Frank, suddenly changed stance and told him his Yi question was "impertinent" and "all about him" not you. (and that he should he ask the Yi why he wants to ask quesions about others that only reflect his own thoughts). So that puts you in Dobro's camp, who orignally said that asking the Yi about others wont yield any response about another person . It was pretty confusing. So I guess your stance may be that one can ask the Yi anything about anyone, but if they ask about you, its impertinent and self-indulgent!!? THEN, Ben was humble enough to explore with the yi what he could learn about what you said: and he got the hex 8 line about consorting with the wrong person. NO wonder! it was an impossible discussion!

and on the topic, I am nosy with the Yi about people who are in my sphere of daily life....and the Yi is very helpful

 

[Trojina]

and on the topic, I am nosy with the Yi about people who are in my sphere of daily life....and the Yi is very helpful

As a matter of interest how do you know the Yi has been helpful ? Do you later get verification of what you think it has told you from the person you asked about ? Just wondering because if you asked about someones feelings or what they are doing etc how would you ever know the Yi had answered you meaningfully unless you checked out with them later how they were feeling or what they did do etc etc

 

[heylise]

As a matter of interest how do you know the Yi has been helpful ? Do you later get verification of what you think it has told you from the person you asked about ? Just wondering because if you asked about someones feelings or what they are doing etc how would you ever know the Yi had answered you meaningfully unless you checked out with them later how they were feeling or what they did do etc etc

Don't you know that even in plain life in full daylight without any Yi-magic people are not really interested in what is inside the other? They want to get affirmed in what they 'think' or maybe 'fear' he/she thinks. They don't want any affirmation from reality.

This thread proves it: Dobro asked a question and was told at length what some think he thinks. Dobro can protest but it will not change what the other thinks he sees. It was very different from what I think he thinks. And probably from what you think he thinks.

I think it was a good question btw. Curious what I will be accused of now...

I think in most cases asking about someone else is not very useful, simply because see above. You interpret in the answer 'what you think he thinks'. You get a very clear answer, because you expect to be affirmed, and that is very easy with Yi's language. It can be read in many ways, so most of the time it is "spot on".

The danger is that it makes your own thinking-what-he-thinks to a fact. But very often that one is already seen as fact, maybe it does not really make much difference after all...

I do think though that there are moments that Yi can show you something in the heart of another, in the same way that we also sometimes 'see' what is there. How? Dunno. When we are totally open to someone, we see. So I think if you ask Yi in that same open mind, you also see, through the Yi. Same door, maybe just a different key.
There is magic in the Yi, but there is also magic in us. Same magic.

LiSe

 

[rosada]

First, this has nothing to do with the I Ching but...Is everyone familiar with the idea that a word doesn't have to be spelled correctly for us to read it? That all the mind needs is the first and last letter? I just looked at rickmatz's name and read it as "razmataz."

Now then..
Boy, I thought one of the great benefits of world awareness of the I Ching would be it would facilitate calm discussion. Wrong...

Where do we get these ideas that the I Ching is guiding us to some sort of Higher Good? I agree, I think it is, but is it reasonable for us to assume this? I've been looking at The Idiot's Guide to The I Ching and so many of their examples refer to how the I Ching was used to determine battle strategy and murderous plots and I guess it must have given accurate info because the ancients used it for this purpose for hundreds of years. So has something changed? Was it appropriate to ask three thousand years ago, "What is my neighbor thinking of me - so I can know when best to poison him?" and today it's not?

I don't think so. I think the I Ching can accurately answer any question put to it but it is up to the questioner if they can understand the answer. Whether the question is morally appropriate doesn't seem to enter in, in my experience. I mean, I've asked the I Ching many questions and I've never had the book explode in my hands.

So what is going on here? Why are some reader's more adept and seeing more deeply into the hexagrams and others get completely misled? I think it has more to do with the ego involvement of the questioner than the morality of the question. Someone who wants to know how their boyfriend feels about them is less likely to be able to see The Truth in the response than an outsider reading the same hexagram. The difference is not that the question was a wrongful invasion of privacy, but rather that the querent simply wasn't able to let go of their own perspective to understand things from an I Ching wider viewpoint.

Perhaps ultimately one comes to realize that for them personally asking about another's private feelings is "cheating" or not helpful, but I don't think we can make the blanket statement that the I Ching is saying it is Wrong.

 

[Sparhawk]

This thread proves it: Dobro asked a question and was told at length what some think he thinks. Dobro can protest but it will not change what the other thinks he sees. It was very different from what I think he thinks. And probably from what you think he thinks.

Shhh... This is Morpheus speaking. The big secret is that Dobro doesn't think at all and need us to think for him. He's just an A.I. avatar sitting somewhere in an underground computer farm. "The Matrix" is here and Dobro is Mr. Smith...

​

 

[hilary]

LiSe, I think I agree with all you wrote, except I'm not sure about this bit:

Don't you know that even in plain life in full daylight without any Yi-magic people are not really interested in what is inside the other? They want to get affirmed in what they 'think' or maybe 'fear' he/she thinks. They don't want any affirmation from reality.

Um... sort of, perhaps. The impression I get is that all the 'how does he feel?' questions are asked out of a sense that 'I have to know how he feels before I know how I can feel.'

(Is this anything like that habit we get into as tiny children, of looking to parents to see what's a good reaction to something new, like big dogs, or a wasp walking across your face?)

These are people who can probably see with complete clarity how much more sensible and practical (and maybe ethical) it would be to ask about their own choices - and if they're advised to ask these questions instead, probably they will. But what they are really in search of is something that feels like a secure place where they can make those choices. Without that, all the rest feels like being asked to choose a place to stand or a path to walk in mid-ocean.

(I've seen hexagram 29 come up a few times in this kind of situation... it gives a different picture of 'secure' and 'choice'.)

Does this mean not being really interested in the what's inside the other person? Maybe, sort of, perhaps.

But I'm sure that people in general have a great desire to understand those they care for. Of course we get attached to the answers in all kinds of self-involved ways, but it doesn't mean we don't genuinely want to understand, at the same time as our ego wants reassuring. My experience is the same as Listener's, that Yi can help with this a lot.

How can I tell? A mix of things: conversations that are suddenly illuminated by a reading so that I understand the other person completely and can provide what's needed; things Yi advises me not to do, that I can see with hindsight would have been a perfect disaster. That kind of thing - not so different from how I can tell with any other reading.

 

[mudpie]

As a matter of interest how do you know the Yi has been helpful ? Do you later get verification of what you think it has told you from the person you asked about ? Just wondering because if you asked about someones feelings or what they are doing etc how would you ever know the Yi had answered you meaningfully unless you checked out with them later how they were feeling or what they did do etc etc

first maybe clarify what I mean by "nosy".....i dont ask e.g. if evelyn hates chloe or how the Browns' marriage is doing. altho i am certain someone could and get accurate results

i work in several workplaces and there is a lot of politics that go on and some times there is a thin line between what I perceive and what I imagine. I am very perceptive but I can also be prone to imagining the worst, at times.

more than once i have had an uneasy perception aboout another person's stance and I use the Yi to verify if my perceptions are accurate. sometimes there is a "no blame" -" all is well " kind of yi response and other times it is like a 44.6,
warning me , in other words, that " you are in for a battle"

and forewarned is forearmed, and the yi has been VERY helpful, as i said.

 

[heylise]

Hilary, you're right! I was way too bold in my statement. "Some" people, not all people. Probably not even that many.

And I must admit, I did ask once "does he love me". I did not expect an answer to my question, I just had to ask. Upset, lonely, desperately wanting to know. But I remember that it had more to do with my own despair than with really wanting to know reality. Big need of being reassured.

Yes, "to know how I can feel" also makes sense. And the last part as well. Not knowing what to ask so you start with the most burning question, and only later comes the deeper one. When there is contact, someone hears, and slowly you start to hear your own heart again as well.

LiSe

 

[mudpie]

I do think though that there are moments that Yi can show you something in the heart of another, in the same way that we also sometimes 'see' what is there. How? Dunno. When we are totally open to someone, we see. So I think if you ask Yi in that same open mind, you also see, through the Yi. Same door, maybe just a different key.
There is magic in the Yi, but there is also magic in us. Same magic.

LiSe

this is the whole crux of WHY it is possible, nothing else, no ego-like invasion. there are truly no private worlds, when there is a space to KNOW, one can know.

 

[mudpie]

Shhh... This is Morpheus speaking. The big secret is that Dobro doesn't think at all and need us to think for him. He's just an A.I. avatar sitting somewhere in an underground computer farm. "The Matrix" is here and Dobro is Mr. Smith...

lol

 

[Trojina]

first maybe clarify what I mean by "nosy".....i dont ask e.g. if evelyn hates chloe or how the Browns' marriage is doing. altho i am certain someone could and get accurate results

i work in several workplaces and there is a lot of politics that go on and some times there is a thin line between what I perceive and what I imagine. I am very perceptive but I can also be prone to imagining the worst, at times.

more than once i have had an uneasy perception aboout another person's stance and I use the Yi to verify if my perceptions are accurate. sometimes there is a "no blame" -" all is well " kind of yi response and other times it is like a 44.6,
warning me , in other words, that " you are in for a battle"

and forewarned is forearmed, and the yi has been VERY helpful, as i said.

I see thanks. See i don't see that as nosy at all as you are asking things directly relevant to your life - I certainly would ask those kinds of questions too. I have found when I'm not sure my trust is rightly placed or not the Yi is pretty helpful.

 

[maremaria]

I asked yi “ if I ask you about the feelings/thoughts of another person what would you tell me ?” and got 62.3.6 > 35

Stay low/grounded and there will be a progress , is a brief interpretation of mine.
The danger , as LiSe said , is to seek for an answer that I have already in my mind.

Before Yi –era, a partner of mine had some problems of his own. He didn’t share a lot of things with me. and my conclusion was that he didn’t love me enough to share them with me. (this specific times there were also problems between us ) so that incident , then, was a fact ( to me) that hi didn’t perceived me as a real partner

After a year or more, I was in a very difficult time but didn’t share my worries/ thoughts with him but this was because I loved him (he was also in a very stressful period).

If this situation was a hexagram then I probably could give two different interpretations and maybe I could keep the one I wanted to hear.

I try to avoid such questions about others because I’m not sure if I m able to really understand (unbiased) Yi’s answers but when I do I always have that story in my mind.

 

[Trojina]

Don't you know that even in plain life in full daylight without any Yi-magic people are not really interested in what is inside the other? They want to get affirmed in what they 'think' or maybe 'fear' he/she thinks. They don't want any affirmation from reality.



LiSe

yes Lise i know that, that is what prompted me to ask Listener the question of how she verified things. The way she explained it I think she uses it in a different way to someone who asks things like what does x feel for his wife etc.

Looking at the shared reading area - seems theres alot of people who consult the Yi precisely to avoid the truth of what another is feeling. Hilarys points are right in theory about needing to know how someone feels before you know how you do, but in practise if we look at the shared readings area I don't see anyone much who wants truth about how x feels.

 

[meng]

Lot of interesting points of view within this thread. Lots that I agree with. If I were to hitch my wagon to just one, I'd hitch it to Rosada's.

One way I have dealt with this was to write down two questions:
1. me?
2. them?

This way I could make needed corrections in me, before looking at them.

 

[Sparhawk]

Um... sort of, perhaps. The impression I get is that all the 'how does he feel?' questions are asked out of a sense that 'I have to know how he feels before I know how I can feel.'

That's sound like the Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics where the Yi is the third thermodynamic system...

 

[hilary]

Mm. I don't think that 'I need to know how he feels before I'll know how I can feel' is a good position to be in. If an emotional state could be a mistake - which is a bit like saying a thunderstorm can be a mistake - it would be one. It's an impossible emotional limbo, and I think the only way through is that hexagram 29 movement: there's no solid place to stand, nothing to hold on to, so you have to hold onto your own heart. 'Going on brings honour' - you have to use movement and commitment where you wish you could use knowledge and security.

I think.

There's probably a great range of motivations behind lots of questions that sound quite similar. Somewhere at one end of the grey area is, 'I daren't ask him in case he actually tells me, so I'll ask Yi and get lots of interpretations, and hopefully one will be reassuring.' Listener's way seems to be at the other end of it: 'I know I already have lots of interpretations; I'd like a reality check, please. (One with real reality involved.)' And the need for a solid place to stand - which may or may not even exist - is somewhere in the middle.

I like Meng's question sequence.

 

[fkegan]

Being upset or emotionally frazzled or having to ask about a relationship you are so enmeshed into that you can't be without an absolute answer generally interferes with clarity in Yi oracle interpretation. Also, from my experience, it doesn't matter all that much how the Oracle seems to answer, you still need to cast a bunch more. To the good, if you are in a place to be upset, hung up and doing irrational things, throwing pennies has to be better for your long-term health than drinking, smoking or otherwise running wild.

The point I tried to make awhile back was simply that when we post we express ourselves and everyone reading a thread gets to make their own judgments upon their impressions of what they read. In general, when things get tangled or we find ourselves digging a messy hole filled with dirt and debris, it is often better to stop digging than keep at it with even more intensity--hoping to reach salvation or at least through the Center of the Earth to China.

Dobro's original question is cute in that it poses only two options both of which clearly indicate ways to look down upon a set of oracle questions. The answers respond to a far greater range of options, which is the Way of posting skewed questions--they tend to get skewered back.

The Yi Oracle has its own ways to deal with strange questions. I truly believe anyone else is just being silly trying to make rules about other folks Yi use---and they get strange responses when they make their silly views known.

Personally, I am more intrigued by the view that the Yi is merely a mirror and any oracle must be a reflection of the person or at least their mind casting the oracle or asking the question or anything else conveniently objective and limited somehow.
This view intrigues me for its magical thinking and other problems. Clearly a view unaware that the most intense occult work is done with a partially illuminated mirror or that to objectively present the depths of our own minds (unconscious or archetype-filled) is absolutely scary.

Luis,
The zeroth law of thermo? That's a stretch--the physics comes from problems with thermometers and need to use the concept of temperature to justify all the work with calorimeters. Applied to Yi questions, it doesn't seem to get much farther than equilibrium is most stable when universal.

However,
I do notice when there is a thread about some delightful detail of Yi technicality or a shared reading upon some interesting hexagram with moving lines---and after a bit of general discussion on all this great detail, the original poster comes back with: Yeah, but does he really like me or am I deluding myself? It is a bit of a whiplash experience.

Frank

 

[Sparhawk]

Luis,
The zeroth law of thermo? That's a stretch--the physics comes from problems with thermometers and need to use the concept of temperature to justify all the work with calorimeters. Applied to Yi questions, it doesn't seem to get much farther than equilibrium is most stable when universal.

Oh boy, if you are going to interpret everything I post literally, you'll end up in a straight-jacket...

Is it me or you just plainly dislike metaphors?

 

[Trojina]

...

Where do we get these ideas that the I Ching is guiding us to some sort of Higher Good? I agree, I think it is, but is it reasonable for us to assume this? I've been looking at The Idiot's Guide to The I Ching and so many of their examples refer to how the I Ching was used to determine battle strategy and murderous plots and I guess it must have given accurate info because the ancients used it for this purpose for hundreds of years. So has something changed? Was it appropriate to ask three thousand years ago, "What is my neighbor thinking of me - so I can know when best to poison him?" and today it's not?

Battle strategy is one thing if one supposes some battles are fought for the higher good but do you think 'how can i know when best to poison him' when it was a simply murderous plot ever answered directly by the Yi do you think ? Hitler dabbled a fair amount in things like astrology, I wonder if he had put a question to the Yi like "which is the most expedient way to murder several million people ?" the Yi would have answered that directly ? I don't think so. An extreme example I know but while I don't think there any morals or ethics inherent in the Yi nevertheless i do always feel it moves us to the good .

Well who knows it may be it just answers everything but if i thought it did it would be worthless to me. I would never consult it again since i am not interested in just knowing things i want to be guided also in a way that i trust and i couldn't trust an oracle who has less discriminative intelligence than any average human being - that would be a blabbermouth oracle, uncaring of its effects and i do actually feel the Yi cares. The Yi caring is more important than any notion of morals. If you think the Yi answers anything that is tantamount to it being a mindless automaton isn't it , an uncaring fortune teller. 'Telling the future' regardless of its accuracy is worthless without caring . That is what I think people miss out on by getting side tracked by the word morals.

I don't think so. I think the I Ching can accurately answer any question put to it but it is up to the questioner if they can understand the answer. Whether the question is morally appropriate doesn't seem to enter in, in my experience. I mean, I've asked the I Ching many questions and I've never had the book explode in my hands.

This is because books don't explode I think people get hung up on the word 'morals' (especially Americans, just like they get hung up on the word 'judgement') and I don't think morals are any static thing in the Yi at all - infact why do people keep using this word its quite misleading, but i do think there are questions the Yi chooses not to answer or gives you an answer that deflects the whole thing back to your question. Infact I think half the skill, if there can be said to be one in divination, is being able to see clearly when this is happening for oneself at least . I've seen here time and time over. People interpret an answer as answering their question where I think its commenting on their question. Still thats just what I think

So what is going on here? Why are some reader's more adept and seeing more deeply into the hexagrams and others get completely misled? I think it has more to do with the ego involvement of the questioner than the morality of the question. Someone who wants to know how their boyfriend feels about them is less likely to be able to see The Truth in the response than an outsider reading the same hexagram. The difference is not that the question was a wrongful invasion of privacy, but rather that the querent simply wasn't able to let go of their own perspective to understand things from an I Ching wider viewpoint.

Perhaps ultimately one comes to realize that for them personally asking about another's private feelings is "cheating" or not helpful, but I don't think we can make the blanket statement that the I Ching is saying it is Wrong.

Yes there never was an invasion of privacy because sometimes the question was not answered anyway. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, but the Yi chooses what and how to answer. It being 'wrong' to ask certain questions doesn't even come into it IMO, the Yi doesn't answer some questions directly thats what i have found.

 

[Sparhawk]

I'm starting to wonder why Hitler keeps creeping back from the dead and inserts himself into all these threads... Perhaps we should call the Ghost Whisperer. If anything, I'll get to see Jennifer Love Hewitt close by...

 

[Trojina]

I'm starting to wonder why Hitler keeps creeping back from the dead and inserts himself into all these threads... Perhaps we should call the Ghost Whisperer. If anything, I'll get to see Jennifer Love Hewitt close by...

he has put in a few appearances lately. Topal was last seen channeling him I think but i now reckon hes in that annoying cat....bring back the dragon

 

[Sparhawk]

For you own sake, don't mess with that cat...