11.2 meanings

[rodaki]

dear Elizabeth

glad to hear things are looking up for you

I mostly agree with what Charly has already said but I took another look at the line taking in mind what you shared about yourself:


-Bearing with the uncultured in gentleness:
Charly's PROTECT THE OUT-OF-PRACTICE or else: be gentle with things that are not working. You talked about how easy your first book came about but still how everything comes to you the hard way . . it's good to use these two extremes to create some balance and to not be too critical of things still in the process of becoming -your book-writing career is one of them, your love life also, remember how things are not always black or white . .

Fording the river with resolution:
Make sound decisions to bring changes in your life, take one step (or one day) at a time and don't look back so much -think of yourself as walking on a rope: looking down can only make you dizzy. Short-term manageable goals are the best to pull you thru tough times

Not neglecting what is distant:
what a great, deep line that is!! What feels distant or foreign in your life (the prospect of your dreams coming true? a good partner? an income-earning job? a compromise between wants and pragmatism?) do not disregard it. Sometimes we might decide to walk alongside situations that feel foreign to what we truly want or watch our dreams from afar, not yet within our reach: none of this is decisive as to what our lives really are about or how they'll turn out to be; everything is just one more phase moving us along, so treat everything with an equal hand. No one truly knows where golden opportunities lie hidden and where we will end up feeling happiest . . and who we are is not about what we do but about how we do it

Not regarding one's companions:
Charly's FRIENDS DISAPPEAR, or else, what you feel is good for you might change completely, don't get stuck with pre-conceived ideas about what you hold dear or suits you best. In the process of changes that we all go through priorities get transformed and what was once alike us may not fit us no more or agree with what's best from now on.

Thus one may manage to walk in the middle:
not much to add here, the 'middle' is what brings dreams and reality closer, braiding them in a balanced and coherent path, a road where highs are so well interwoven to the ground we walk on that can bring an essence of heaven on earth.


If you read back in the archives for 11.2 you might find a thread where it is discussed as a line of transition, and in many ways it is just that, only the transition can be a lot bigger than what our poor human eyes -being fixated in the moment- can envision and the changes might provide us with wealth in places we ignorantly reject. This is not just imaginative talk, 11.2 has been a big reading for me and it has involved much of what I've described above, including me leaving aside for the mo my research interests (which have given me moments of pure bliss) for a work that fills more mundane needs. The essence of my dreams has not changed that much but I have allowed more leeway to life's circumstances and whole-heartedly enjoy the adventures it has brought down my path, even if they weren't my exact choices. I believe that everyone here has offered you marvelous advice, now it's time to take it up in your hands and use it . . and come back to let us now how it's working for you!


. . and as for the first guy's rejection, I'll just quote Charly:

if this man is for you he will appear by his own, if not, he was not for you

if in some way he's shown you the door then he has to come and invite you back himself to balance it out no? you know you deserve no less than that . .


all my best!!
:bows:

 

[elizabeth]

Hi Rodaki,

Thanks for your input. A few comments/questions...

-Bearing with the uncultured in gentleness:
Charly's PROTECT THE OUT-OF-PRACTICE or else: be gentle with things that are not working. You talked about how easy your first book came about but still how everything comes to you the hard way . . it's good to use these two extremes to create some balance and to not be too critical of things still in the process of becoming -your book-writing career is one of them, your love life also, remember how things are not always black or white . .

I guess then "How" you create balance when there is none is the real question> And I dont know that answer. (?)

Fording the river with resolution:
Make sound decisions to bring changes in your life, take one step (or one day) at a time and don't look back so much -think of yourself as walking on a rope: looking down can only make you dizzy. Short-term manageable goals are the best to pull you thru tough times

One day at a time I can comprehend. But there is SO much resistance on all sides. No progress. (I am surprised I did not get the Stagnation hexagram)

Not neglecting what is distant:
what a great, deep line that is!! What feels distant or foreign in your life (the prospect of your dreams coming true? a good partner? an income-earning job? a compromise between wants and pragmatism?) do not disregard it. Sometimes we might decide to walk alongside situations that feel foreign to what we truly want or watch our dreams from afar, not yet within our reach: none of this is decisive as to what our lives really are about or how they'll turn out to be; everything is just one more phase moving us along, so treat everything with an equal hand. No one truly knows where golden opportunities lie hidden and where we will end up feeling happiest . . and who we are is not about what we do but about how we do it

All of the above! What feels distant (impossible) is the man I desire and enjoy spending time with, him actually feeling the same way about me, missing me, and wanting to be with me. The man in question at present time combines everything most imporatnt to me: his culture and language, the place I hope to return to (to live and work), that set of family values etc. Its like the universe keeps saying "you cant have that, its too complicated." Why not? Why can't i have it? WHy *shouldnt* I have it?

Not regarding one's companions:
Charly's FRIENDS DISAPPEAR, or else, what you feel is good for you might change completely, don't get stuck with pre-conceived ideas about what you hold dear or suits you best. In the process of changes that we all go through priorities get transformed and what was once alike us may not fit us no more or agree with what's best from now on.

But if you desire one thing, and find it fulfilling, how can you possibly tell yourself that it's not good for you? (and I'm not speaking purely about a person or relationship) For example, it is important for me to maintain a circle of friends who speak one of my foreign languages. Now that I am in the US it is verydifficult to keep my second language going because I know very few people who speak it (plus everyone has busy lives). So I constantly seek out these people and put effort into building and maintaining new friendships with them> it takes time and energy. But the "signals" I get from the world (given its difficulty) is that maybe it shouldn't be a priority. However, I guarantee the universe that for me personally it is a priority, not just now, but it will always be, bc it is one of the most important aspects of my life. ...

Thus one may manage to walk in the middle:
not much to add here, the 'middle' is what brings dreams and reality closer, braiding them in a balanced and coherent path, a road where highs are so well interwoven to the ground we walk on that can bring an essence of heaven on earth.


If you read back in the archives for 11.2 you might find a thread where it is discussed as a line of transition, and in many ways it is just that, only the transition can be a lot bigger than what our poor human eyes -being fixated in the moment- can envision and the changes might provide us with wealth in places we ignorantly reject. This is not just imaginative talk, 11.2 has been a big reading for me and it has involved much of what I've described above, including me leaving aside for the mo my research interests (which have given me moments of pure bliss) for a work that fills more mundane needs. The essence of my dreams has not changed that much but I have allowed more leeway to life's circumstances and whole-heartedly enjoy the adventures it has brought down my path, even if they weren't my exact choices.

If I may interject here -- but then, you ENJOYED the shift in priority and focus. It was a *welcome* change to you. What if it had not been? What if it was prohibitive and repulsive to you? Then what?

I believe that everyone here has offered you marvelous advice, now it's time to take it up in your hands and use it . . and come back to let us now how it's working for you!

. . and as for the first guy's rejection, I'll just quote Charly:

if in some way he's shown you the door then he has to come and invite you back himself to balance it out no? you know you deserve no less than that . .
all my best!!
:bows:

God, I really hope and pray and wish he will.

I will try to take the advice, but things like balancing and/or giving up what I desire.. I am not good at those and not sure how to go about doing so.

 

[rodaki]

Hi Rodaki,

Thanks for your input. A few comments/questions...


I guess then "How" you create balance when there is none is the real question> And I dont know that answer. (?)

I believe that balance is first created in our hearts and minds and then in the world . . if you fail to see the good things that can balance out the negative ones then balance will never be achieved no matter what is given to you

One day at a time I can comprehend. But there is SO much resistance on all sides. No progress. (I am surprised I did not get the Stagnation hexagram)

hmm . . I guess that says something no? how far do you think you can go by before you totally exhaust yourself? . . what if you try a different approach, will that be so detrimental to who you are?

All of the above! What feels distant (impossible) is the man I desire and enjoy spending time with, him actually feeling the same way about me, missing me, and wanting to be with me. The man in question at present time combines everything most imporatnt to me: his culture and language, the place I hope to return to (to live and work), that set of family values etc. Its like the universe keeps saying "you cant have that, its too complicated." Why not? Why can't i have it? WHy *shouldnt* I have it?

ahem . . sorry to say so, but the above underlined sounds very much like a list of set prerequisites and preconditions . . sounds like you're out window-shopping for the right accessory to your life and demands -is this how love works? I dunno . . I'm not saying you shouldn't have some standards but the 'right package' might prove to be completely wrong for your happiness . . or maybe he is absolutely, perfectly right for you but he doesn't seem to think so . . uch:

But if you desire one thing, and find it fulfilling, how can you possibly tell yourself that it's not good for you? (and I'm not speaking purely about a person or relationship) For example, it is important for me to maintain a circle of friends who speak one of my foreign languages. Now that I am in the US it is verydifficult to keep my second language going because I know very few people who speak it (plus everyone has busy lives). So I constantly seek out these people and put effort into building and maintaining new friendships with them> it takes time and energy. But the "signals" I get from the world (given its difficulty) is that maybe it shouldn't be a priority. However, I guarantee the universe that for me personally it is a priority, not just now, but it will always be, bc it is one of the most important aspects of my life. ...

you don't say to yourself it's not good for you, you say to yourself that it is what you absolutely love to do but the time doesn't seem to be right for it . . you don't give up on your dream; you loosen the grip of your will to make things work exactly how you imagine they should work. When you've tried to achieve something every way you could and you kept bumping on the same set of problems then you need to back off a while and re-think . . how come this writing books project began so easy and turned so stiff? where can you find your own resistances to this? how can you (not 'how do you want to', but 'how can you') get out of the rut you're in?
As far as the part where we guarantee the universe about our priorities, you know, there's a saying we have in my country that says: 'When people set priorities, God laughs . .' :bag: we only direct a small toy-model of the universe, not the universe itself

If I may interject here -- but then, you ENJOYED the shift in priority and focus. It was a *welcome* change to you. What if it had not been? What if it was prohibitive and repulsive to you? Then what?

(or to put it in a gory-film-laughter) Muuuaahahahahaha!!!

no, no, no, it was nothing like welcome or easy . . it was the most difficult period in my life, filled with so much stress that I barely noticed how I quit 18 years of being a blissful smoker eek. I resisted the needed changes for two years, pushing myself as far as I could, until I forced myself to face the underlining reasons of my wishes and my priorities -those that lay beneath the perfectly reasonable surface of me being very good at what I was trying to do, as everyone who knew me admitted -and as even people who barely knew me but knew snippets of my work, stuck by. And go on I will, but from a place that will fulfill more than one aspect of my life's needs, because what I realized was that my true essence was not just a prospective dream job/title, or a partner, or the dreams I had come to recognize . . more than that, our essence is never static but a thing that keeps evolving and changing and we can always be surprised by ourselves and the silly things that bring true joy and that what matters most is to find ways to get by in the darkness, while not burning ourselves at both ends

God, I really hope and pray and wish he will.

please, don't. Better pray and hope and wish for yourself to be strong enough to handle the challenges presented to you and to not be afraid of necessary changes, and courageous enough to learn and discover new things about yourself and the world in persevering through the adversities. Think of the Chilean miners and the kind of stress they probably had to endure: what saved them was nothing more than their good senses and their strong spirit; these are the things that really count, the rest is mostly bags of stories we create for ourselves



(p.s.: on a different note, you might wanna read about the effects of current Pluto transits -I'm not an avid fan of every astrological tenet but I take what I can find useful, even if it could be just plain old placebo )

 

[elizabeth]

Hi Rodaki,
I just read your post and want to reply at greater length. I will have to reread it and digest, there is a lot of deep thought and revelation to be found there.

But on a more superficial level, I just searched for Pluto transits, current, and Pluto went direct on Sept. 14, so I dont see that it is doing anything right now globally(not sure about my personal chart). What were you referring to?

Also about the resistance issue... I am not doubting the Yi (or maybe I am), but when it says Patience, is it REALLY saying "you need to forget this as a possibility because it will never happen" How polite is the Yi??

I may not have explained clearly but it isn't that I have a checklist, per se. I am not looking for someone with purple eyes who is 6'3" and plays the violin or whatever. There are some basic (broad, but basic) things that I find I click with, that resonate with me. I am recognizing those rather than just trying to find "someone anyone" to fill a void. I know, in other words, what will or wont work for me longer term -- and more than that, I tend to not be attracted to those things/people that do not work longer term (this goes for job situations too, in fact. Trial and error has proven that to me).

As one concrete example, I left my home country for six years. I began a new life for myself -- apartment, job, friends etc -- in the other country and stayed there for that time period. I am not willing to cut that out and move on 100% and never go back. (In fact I'm considering if I can find work there again after the economic crisis ends but thats another issue). The men in my current (home) country tend to not undersatnd or support this. They haven't travelled, haven't lived abroad, dont speak that language -- tehrefore all the friends i have from that culture locally, are a bit foreign to them> but these are MY friends. It is like I am a part of two worlds --bc i AM a part of two worlds now. And to me, logically speaking, if I find a local guy with no travel/international experience, half of my life and my pursuits and my profession will never make sense to him. Versus, if I were able and blessed enough to build a relationship w/someone from that culture, we both share so much more in common. Does this make sense? Does it *sound* like I'm being too rigid??

The man in question (who the Yi is telling me to be patient about) is *from that other* country, but he is here and local. So I do not have to try to explain (to him) a difference in mentalities and cultures that is not understandable to someone who has not travelled and lived in that country that I lived in. This may sound superficial. But it resonates with the core of who i am -- and I can't imagine spending my life witih someone who didn't comprehend that part of me, because it is now a huge part of who i am. I will continue to travel there each year, if i dont move back altogether. I just dont know that a long term partner would really...understand that, esp if he did not have the passion (and language skills) that i have in that area.


I'm not *doing anything* now with regards to this man> I have let ten long painful days of silence go by. I want very much to send him a note and ask how he is and say something kind, hint that I am thinking of him. but the Yi said patience so I am trying to remain silent and disappeared. It just doesnt feel *right* to do this now. I feel that I am letting him slip through my fingers. I am worried if that happens I will never see him again. I am worried, too, that there is a message or vibe i was supposed to communicate, and have not...and I want to be sure before I move on and try to forget all about him, that I did what I could to show my interest, and not come off aloof or only interested in sports or whatever.

I guess what I am saying is i'm not dogmatic. I"ve been alone for 36 years. I'm not rushing into something with someone who doesn't fit. (I'm not rushing into anything at all in fact). But LIfe and God and the Universe just put this man in my path. Is it REALLY the case that this happened just so it could say "but he's not the one"? That makes zero sense to me, bc my inside tells me the opposite. My inside tells me the timing is sensitive and maybe off but it can happen with him... I can't explain it otherwise... I truly dont think this is just a case of me hoping too much. Because if that's true, then the universe is random, and this man's appearance in my life is meaningless, bc he is just a blip on the radar. And I have had plenty of those before...

 

[rodaki]

hello again


no need to explain the how's and why's of your life to me or anyone else for that matter (unless this helps you vent a little bit and feel a tad better about what's happening in your life at the mo ) and noone is trying to tell you what you should be doing here Elizabeth, but what I think we are trying to tell you (definitely what I am trying to say) is that maybe there is another way to solve your problems, to lessen the current frictions with the world and help yourself get by thru the worst . . and that maybe, by being constantly in fight mode you blind yourself to this other way . .

as far as bringing up my own experiences is concerned, I admit that I feel for you because your story bears quite a few resemblances with mine and I did manage to cause some damage in my life by being too stubborn and set in my ideas of what was/is/will be right for me. Still, that was what came thru in my life, I can't presume to know your answers. What I can do is to share some of mine in hope others might get some relief or help from it . . So no need to argue with it, just keep what feels right for you or might help you answer your own troubles and needs and throw out all the rest


(as to the Pluto comment, Pluto is currently in Capricorn which is supposed to be a big deal for Cancers . . of course, as they say, Pluto is always transiting a sign and a corresponding place of our lives so this could be of no importance whatsoever, or it could mean that looking into its influence can help us handle difficult changes better)

again wishing you all the best!

 

[elizabeth]

Oh I know, and I guess venting (or defending myself -- not to you, per se, but to myself in fact, or to the universe or to circumstance) ... well I dont konw if it helps but thats what came out .

I do not want to be stubborn and shoot myself in the foot because of it. I want to be able to step back and see the bigger picture that you and others on the thread are helping me (thank god!) see.

I have to look into Pluto. I'm Aquarius (star sign) but not Cancer... So not sure what that means (if anything). I do know that the Jupiter and Venus retrograde (and t hen we have another big Mercury retro in December) are not *Helping* things go smoothly.

I have a job interview (actually 4 interviews/people at one firm) tomorrow. So things are happening. Oddly none of *that* did I put effort into -- it was a friend who phoned needing to hire someone and they are asking me to interview.

Now why can't relationships be the same? I know: I'm a broken record...!

 

[charly]

My book is about the training system in a certain art form (I dont want to say what it is, because when it is published people can then find my identity here). For this art form people study many years and it is a very selective few who can become professionals. What I wrote about was how the system of training was founded and developed, and then how it is faring today, since other external influences are affecting the technique and the demands on the artists, and people themsleves have evolved now too. It began actually as an article I really wanted to write to address criticism of hte art form lately, that it has been "dying" or is not what it once was. I disagree with that point of view so I wanted to prove it. I spoke to many elders in the art form and interviewed them. When i was done i had too much for an article but too little for a book. Everything fell into place from there: a friend suggested I do more research (done). The first publisher recommended to me (by chance) accepted the manuscript and gave me a contract. Nothing in my life has EVER happened so easily. I truly belive the book wrote itself. I was just the conduit. Nothing more, nothing less.

My work now is doing written translations from languages into English, finishing the deatils of the book (copyedits, page proofs etc) and also researching a second book that is still in its infancy. What i WANT To do for my life is write more of these books. BUt it costs a lot of money to do it bc no one pays me to write it, the contract doesnt cover expenses and doesnt reimburse you for the time you work. So i will neer earn a living doing this. So it is important for me to find a job doing something else that isnt full time and allows me a flexible schedule. This is VERY HARD to find because most business people who want help, they want it on their terms: you have to sit in our office and you cannot be gone more than 1 hour at lunchtime and if you leave early we think you're not serious about the job etc etc. Its VERY hard to find flexibility, and that is crucial to me.

THANKS, ALL THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.
Maybe you can tell us something more without risk for your privacy.

In truth< I have never been visible.

Can try now.

... I have very high standards. But only because I have to be. Otherwise nothing happesn in my life. Other people work 1/4 of what I work and they get 10 times the rewards. I work 10 times as hard and get 1/4 of the rewards ...

A respectable way of being, but now you need revenues. Things will continue happening in your life with or without high standards.

Bad or good, right now it is NECESSARY (!) However, i'm just not good at it. I've never been *good* at being profitable, bc i'm not good at being powerful and negotiating...

Maybe these are the forgotten skills that you must not neglect. Fighting for your own profit.

... I feel the world is being cruel so I have to be even more cruel to myself... then if I am strict with myself maybe finally I will achieve my dreams...

Being cruel with yourself would not decrease world cluelty. Being strict in fulfilling your goals is another thing.

THat is VERY HARD TO DO!!

Hard for you, but POSSIBLE!

OK I see your point of view. Today I had a phone interview for a position. It is contract (remote work) which is ideal. But they want it to be full time later (in the office). I dont want to be in the office. I need to be able to work from home so that I have time for the book (not 2 hours of commute, not nonsense meetings, etc). So I will try with them, if they give me contract work, to later stay *on contract*. It means i wont have benefits (medical/pension) but i will have freedom and that is more important to me. (I cannot have all of it).

Think why would be profitable for him to have you working remote. Try to negotiate. Maybe you can persuade him, if not, try part time. If not, take the job meanwhile you get something better.

(You have to have a person to have love... so...there's no person here yet...)

Persons there are. Lovers are scarce. Two ways for getting them: by luck or working hard, like in hunting.

YES! I dont need a boss. That is VERY TRUE. I need a partner and one who supports me. At work and in my personal life. I *dream* of partners.

Make a list of possible partners, write also what profit can you offer an what can you get. And be alert.

Wow. I Have to .. I am writing that on my wall as a reminder. You're right. Suffering doenst shorten the time. But it is hard to not FEEL suffering. I dont know how to stop feeling that way. ??

Only stop. If you have nothing else to do, put yourself to write for your next book.

I started my own web site two weeks ago for freelance translation work. And I sent out resumes... and no freelance work, but i got the phonecall about the job for today which was not from any of the effort I put out. It was from a friend who just started work at the company and they needed a copywriter...

Ways of return are strange. Maybe if you did nothing, nothing would have received.

I dont know anyone looking for the same type of jobs as me...but i do need a partner...

Go to the place where people are applying and talk with them. Or put a post asking for skilled assitants and talk with them. Don't do false promises, possibly you will need an assitant, talk with them.

No , I really appreciate the advice! I Need any and all help I can get now. Truly. I have never felt as poorly in my life before as I do now...

You are not a poor woman. You have a passion. Only bad times that will turn in any moment.

But...what am I out of practice *doing*? What dont i have practice in?

I have an idea, but do you really want that I tell you it?

Which river? What is the river? Job? relationship? Sorrow?

A river is something that can wet you if you are galloping over it. Say enjoy it but beware.

Dont abandon who or what? And dont lose who or what?

Yourself.

(Elizabeth comment: get honor in business and your good reputation will remain?)

You have already a reputation, if not nobody would give you a contract for writing books. Meanwhile the friends don't disappear, get the more profit that you could. Even, maybe they will not disappear at all.

I suppose it is good but those final lines (You listed 11.3 but i think you meant 11.2? ) i do not understand> I dont understand what the Yi is saying to me there...

aOf course, 11.2, nobody's perfect. You will understand.

Oh wait, just reading this part now. OK...so you think it means I am competing to get /find a mate?

The Changes is full of bandits galloping looking for wifes. horses and rivers have many associations with enterprises with serious consequences, specially with marriage and pregnancy.

I don't know if this says you something.

Is hoarfrost when the rivers are frozen? Does this mean...race to marriage? That cannot be advice bc i dont have anyone in my life now??

Think it well. If you don't take part in any competition, how could you get a prize?

Hm, not sure how it applies...

Nobody's sure.

All the best,


Charly.

P.D.:
I have no access to broadband during weekend.
Ch.

 

[elizabeth]

OK so a summary of main points:

1) Fighting for my own profit. The job interviews are tomorrow. I'm going to try to get not only the cash (the salary rate is plenty for me) but the conditions I want -- I need remote (work from home) possibilities, not sitting in office, not commuting. PLease God help with this! My argument is I produce more, faster, from home -- less time spent commuting, easier to focus. I hope they agree or will listen.

2) Being cruel with yourself doesnt decrease world cruelty. Being strict in fulfilling your goals is another thing. And this is hard but possible, check.

3) Persons there are. Lovers are scarce. Two ways for getting them: by luck or working hard, like in hunting.

I have been working hard and get nothing. Luck has never come my way, so I have only the choice to work hard.

On this note today I got a final note, a final "No" from the man who stole my heart. He wrote about the symphony that he will NOT be able to go because although he will be in town, his neighbors are having their 30th birthday party...and he can't miss it.

Triple ouch: he is here, he is around, and that party came up AFTER he initially invited me out, but he's going to that party (and i'm not invited of course).

4) Try to stop feeling suffering.

5) I'm not poor, I'm passionate and with very BAD luck.

6) Dont abandon myself.

Finally: "I have an idea, but do you really want that I tell you it?"

YES

Quote: Which river? What is the river? Job? relationship? Sorrow?
>>A river is something that can wet you if you are galloping over it. Say enjoy it but beware.

Hm, i still am not sure what it is. Unless its a potential relationship. It is the possibility of love, but not actual love.

>>The Changes is full of bandits galloping looking for wifes. horses and rivers have many associations with enterprises with serious consequences, specially with marriage and pregnancy. I don't know if this says you something.

No, I am not sure what this means at all. Marriage/pregnancy come quickly but can be the wrong thing maybe (??) Ie if you rush into them?? But that "If you don't take part in any competition, you cant win the prize." ie you have to PARTICIPATE (this is depressing bc participation is painful. It breaks my heart).

 

[rodaki]

I have to look into Pluto. I'm Aquarius (star sign) but not Cancer...

uhm, thought you said you have rising Cancer(?), that's why I mentioned it . .
I have moon in Aqua and many good friends that are Aquarius . . we're very idealistic people but that can turn into a boomerang sometimes, so it's good to keep an open mind about what is 'right' for us, it makes peace with reality easier

 

[gene]

Elizabeth

If you are 36 and have Saturn in the twelvth house, chances are Saturn is getting fairly close to conjuncting your natal moon. That can be tough as it is very dampening on the emotions. It is hard to keep oneself up and cheerful during this time. I recently went through a very similar phenomenon. Saturn was squaring my natal moon and my whole world was falling apart. It is hard for even very spiritual people to remain emotionally balanced during a time like this. Then right after that, Saturn was opposing my natal Sun. Astrology doesn't force us to do or feel anything, but it is a reflection of things we might be going through at a given time. Hang in there, and remember, this too shall pass.

Gene

 

[elizabeth]

Rodaki, yes. I do not like reality at all, it's painful and disappointing. Living in my head and in the future is much easier. ! So that's usually where I choose to be.

If you are 36 and have Saturn in the twelvth house, chances are Saturn is getting fairly close to conjuncting your natal moon. That can be tough as it is very dampening on the emotions. It is hard to keep oneself up and cheerful during this time. I recently went through a very similar phenomenon. Saturn was squaring my natal moon and my whole world was falling apart. It is hard for even very spiritual people to remain emotionally balanced during a time like this. Then right after that, Saturn was opposing my natal Sun. Astrology doesn't force us to do or feel anything, but it is a reflection of things we might be going through at a given time. Hang in there, and remember, this too shall pass. -Gene

Yes. Borderline suicidal is putting it mildly. I honestly for the past ..well probably since August, for sure (July was plain Stress, so I didnt have time to feel anything) I have felt everything *everything* was against me. Usually there's at least one area of life you can look at and go, "Well at least THAT is working now." Nope.

 

[ginnie]

For what it's worth, I just experienced an 11.2 > 36 situation; in fact am still experiencing it.

One feels wounded, buried, bruised, imprisoned, and hurt -- due to external conditions or other people.

Getting 11.2, however, indicates that deep within yourself, you already possess the resources to get out of the darkness. You may have forgotten temporarily, but you already have the answer.

By quieting the mind, you'll be able to access it.

Writers have a hard time quieting the mind. The mind can become overfull with words and verbal expressions of all kinds, thus blocking the solutions all around us. Good luck with this, Elizabeth.

 

[elizabeth]

Thanks Ginnie. Yes - what you said is exactly how I feel too.
I'm being distracted now from a rush contract job (that is going to require little sleep and only work until next week, weekend included). But when it ends, I will no doubt return to coping with all this.

[I have often thought, and i do believe, that many of the people in the world are simply distracted from themselves and the deeper issues/threads in their lives by constant (over)work and the structure of society. In order to buy property you have to take out a loan: in order to get a loan you have to have a job. You can't lose your job, or you lose your home. You have no free time bc corporations dont allow that. So you're on this treadmill cycle that doesnt allow for insight (so much). Broadly speaking. I'm not a fan of idle time -- have always filled any free time I have with production of some sort. But I think you cannot know yourself if you have no time and silence for reflection either. Just a passing thought.]

 

[ginnie]

We do everything too fast

many of the people in the world are simply distracted from themselves and the deeper issues/threads in their lives by constant (over)work and the structure of society.

Yes, distraction.

But always needing to rush is the worst stress, I think.

Time pressure.

Not taking breaks during the workday.

Anybody working at home can stop for a few minutes to take a break to breathe deeply and re-center. It is only during those moments of no-thought that inspiration and insight come through to us ...

 

[charly]

... Finally: "I have an idea, but do you really want that I tell you it?"

YES

Quote: Which river? What is the river? Job? relationship? Sorrow?
>>A river is something that can wet you if you are galloping over it. Say enjoy it but beware.

Hm, i still am not sure what it is. Unless its a potential relationship. It is the possibility of love, but not actual love.

>>The Changes is full of bandits galloping looking for wifes. horses and rivers have many associations with enterprises with serious consequences, specially with marriage and pregnancy. I don't know if this says you something.

No, I am not sure what this means at all. Marriage/pregnancy come quickly but can be the wrong thing maybe (??) Ie if you rush into them?? But that "If you don't take part in any competition, you cant win the prize." ie you have to PARTICIPATE (this is depressing bc participation is painful. It breaks my heart).

Sh_t ! I don't dare...

See it, I believe that maybe it's more about sex and marriage than about work. Even more, you would look for working the less possible and follow your passions: first, to write books about your art, second any other passion that you might have.

Of course that you, like any else, need money, then learn to look for your profit.

I will lfollow readig to know what happened with your work contact.

all the best,


Charly

 

[elizabeth]

Sh_t ! I don't dare...
See it, I believe that maybe it's more about sex and marriage than about work. Even more, you would look for working the less possible and follow your passions: first, to write books about your art, second any other passion that you might have.

Of course that you, like any else, need money, then learn to look for your profit.
I will follow readig to know what happened with your work contact.
all the best,
Charly

Okaaaay. Stop stop stop. I know that you're sincere in this interpretation due to your hesitation in explaining it to me. But with great respect --and gratitude for your previous help-- I will tell you why this seems to make no sense! I cannot possibly have sex...when there is no one to have sex *with.* And I also cannot get married if there is no one to get married *to*. So, where does that leave me?

That was my first interpretation of your post.

If, however, you're saying that the YI is saying to focus on people/love/relationships and what I'm passionate about (my book writing) and *not* focus on the job stuff -- well that is fine by me because that's pretty much the way I've been arranging my life. I dont have a dime to my name. And the book writing is the only sheer, pure, distraction from being alone. Any other kind of work I can do with one eye closed, in all truth, and thus the rest of my brain is left to spin and spin about the lack of love/marriage/sex in my life.

You asked about a work update: complicated, but I simultaneously signed a contract Tuesday for a short project and interviewed at the same compnay for a combo position of that job (writing) plus an overseeing studio manager type position. The pay is good for the contract work, i can work from home (which is the most important thing) and means I will be fine for November. They said the project would last for 2 months...but the work, for now, initially, is already done unless they have revisions and more requests... And that concerns me. I work fast, but maybe too fast. My output is high quality at lightning speed, unfortunately... i need to work slower to get paid more.

I already decided I do not want the "in house" position for a number of reasons already noted. However, at the end of the contract, i dont know if they're willling to just extend the contract further for more writing. That's really all i want and need [*if* the flow of work (and thus income) is steady.]

The "in house" position would be more hours, require 40 hour spent commuting per month, and due to the transfers and time involved, i would not be able to do work during the commute. No salary is more valuable than my time for finishing my books, at this point. However, if i have no other prospects in January I may have to take this. I sure hope not. My fellow contracter, the designer, told me she interviewed for a similar in-house position, and the word is no one works fewer than 60 hrs per week and nothing is remote. When she interviewed one of her would-be reports was in *tears*...and that, plus the 60 hrs, was enough for her not to want an in-house position there.

I wouldnt want that either.

I leave Nov. 17 to travel to the other half of the world for 2 weeks. It's research for book #2 which everyone tells me I won't be able to write. I had some odd/difficult bumps with a key interview subject last week as well. Apparently she gave the information I need to a reporter who doesnt have the credentials that i do; this was several years ago. Since then he has slandered me professionally (for no reason other than he's malicious & jealous). And i need the same info for my book. Anyway thats another bag of worms, but it's manageable, moreso than the relationship or employment issues. We will see.

 

[elizabeth]

For those who inquired about my employment issues, or advised about it, I have some recent developments and readings related to them here: http://www.onlineclarity.co.uk/friends/showthread.php?t=11486

 

[ginnie]

Good luck, Elizabeth.

 

[elizabeth]

Thanks Ginnie.

 

[elizabeth]

Just another note here. I presumed the situation with Archery Man is hopeless at this point. But someone offline was helping me and they suggest that there were things I could have done (and did not do) to save this.
I asked the Yi just now what can i do to turn things around (ie and develop a relationship) with him.
The Yi said 51.4 and 24.
When I get the 51 shock and line 4, bogged down in the mud, to me it says dont try to move backwards, dont try bc you WILL get bogged down. ("Movement within the mind depends for its success partly on circumstances. If there is neither a resistance that might be vigorously combated, nor yet a yielding that permits of victory – if, instead, everything is tough and inert like mire – movement is crippled.")
But 24 is hopeful. So what's the message?
I Presume it's something like "forget and just keep moving on with other things." If i'm wrong, pls let me know.

 

[literunner]

Hi Elizabeth,
A comment on 51.4--you're in a quagmire of muddy emotions at the moment about this, but somewhere in all this you can figure out what's going on and then make a move, a renewal move, whatever that may be. Gather your wits and think clearly.

Also about the unchanged hx 62 you received, from Sarah Dening's book:
"...This isn't the time to push yourself into the limelight (he's going to the friend's party instead). If you are unpretentious (contact him at some other point and ask him how the party was and if he wants to grab a coffee and catch up, for example) your relationships will flourish. The situation is a test of your patience and stability."
Quoting from Sarah's book there, mixed with things off the top of my head.
Hope it is helpful :bows:

 

[elizabeth]

Hi Elizabeth,
A comment on 51.4--you're in a quagmire of muddy emotions at the moment about this, but somewhere in all this you can figure out what's going on and then make a move, a renewal move, whatever that may be. Gather your wits and think clearly.

Also about the unchanged hx 62 you received, from Sarah Dening's book:
"...This isn't the time to push yourself into the limelight (he's going to the friend's party instead). If you are unpretentious (contact him at some other point and ask him how the party was and if he wants to grab a coffee and catch up, for example) your relationships will flourish. The situation is a test of your patience and stability."
Quoting from Sarah's book there, mixed with things off the top of my head.
Hope it is helpful :bows:

Wow. Literunner thank you. In all truth, I asked the question with zero hope. And I was (and am) prepared to let this situation die its own death, if it had or has not already done so. I was not expecting anything that might suggest it was salvageable so this is a unique take on things.

(Have not heard of S. Dening but will look into that too btw).

Hmm. I want to know how to react if he for example emails me this Friday night, once he's back in town, and asks if I plan to do archery on Saturday morning. I do not plan to do archery this weekend... but i would want to have coffee with him.

However, as you pointed out, waiting is better. I thought to wait until after MY 2.5 week trip end of this month. Then say "I'm back in town" and suggest coffee (with or without archery...could be easier to do it with, at that point, ie "havent been here and miss archery" or something like that).

I'm thinking I need to let party/symphony weekend pass. As you noted. And try for coffee either next weekend or in December.

 

[elizabeth]

Follow-up questions that I hope add more context:

What am I not seeing about him? Hex 10 Lines 4,5,6 > hex 19 Approach.
L4: This text refers to a dangerous enterprise. The inner power to carry it through is there, but this inner power is combined with hesitating caution in one’s external attitude. This line contrasts with the receding line, which is weak within but outwardly presses forward. Here one is sure of ultimate success, which consists in achieving one’s purpose, that is, in overcoming danger by going forward.
L5:one has to be resolute in conduct. But at the same time one must remain conscious if it is to be persevered in. Only awareness of the danger makes success possible.
L6: The work is ended. If we want to know whether good fortune will follow, we must look back upon our conduct and its consequences. If the effects are good, then good fortune is certain. No one knows himself. It is only by the consequences of his actions, by the fruit of his labors, that a man can judge what he is to expect.

Alas, I am not a fan of the times when the Yi answers a different question. I can see two possibilities here> The first is this is from his POV: he overcame danger by going forward (although in what way it is not clear, bc he has not been forward at ALL with me); he has to be aware and determined; and he looks back on his behavior and the results and that's how he is judging me.

Or the same applies to me: I overcame danger by sticking my neck out, going to archery, sending emails unprompted; I was aware and determined (and still am) and I should look back on the results (none) in order to know what to expect in the future (nothing).

What do I need to do more of? 54.3 > 34

Uh oh... that line: Desperate to improve one's position, one can take the first opportunity that offers itself. But it is likely to be only a small advance, one still implying subservience. In other words, it is out of my hands?


What is the best course of action with M now? 47Confined,lines2.4>8Seeking Union
[Sure am confined!!]

line 2:subject straitened amidst his wine and viands. There come to him anon the red kneecovers of the ruler. It will be well for him to maintain his sincerity as in sacrificing. Active operation on his part will lead to evil, but he will be free from blame.
(dont take action...?)

Also: This pictures a state of inner oppression. Externally, all is well, one has meat and drink. But one is exhausted by the commonplaces of life, and there seems to be no way of escape. Then help comes from a high place. A prince – in ancient China princes wore scarlet knee bands – is in search of able helpers. But there are still obstructions to be overcome. Therefore it is important to meet these obstructions in the invisible realm by offerings and prayer. To set forth without being prepared would be disastrous, though not morally wrong. Here a disagreeable situation must be overcome by patience of spirit.

Okaaaaay no offense but the last time the Yi said "patience" what really meant was "no hope and no change." Those are two different things. Patience implies waiting for a reward...

I get the Yi is saying I"d better pray long and hard if i want this to work. OK. That's already underway. But then what?

line 4: subject proceeding very slowly to help the subject of the first line, who is straitened by the carriage adorned with metal in front of him. There will be occasion for regret, but the end will be good.

L4 also: A well-to-do man sees the need of the lower classes and would like very much to be of help. But instead of proceeding with speed and energy where there is need, he begins in hesitant and measured way. Then he encounters obstructions. Powerful and wealthy acquaintances draw him into their circle; he has to do as they do and cannot withdraw from them. Hence he finds himself in great embarrassment. but the trouble is transitory. The original strength of his nature offsets the mistake he has made, and the goal is reached.

Hm. Ok. I want to help, but hesitation and measured-ness will not achieve my goal. Therefore (what's the opposite of hesitation: acting impulsively). It says my nature will offset my mistakes and goal will be reached but..will it? With THIS MAN? that's what the question is...

Both lines show the person who takes action leading to evil or regret, but he is then "free from blame" and "the end will be good." What is this saying??

 

[literunner]

Hi Elizabeth,
I've gotten this grouping before and there are a few threads on here too about it. It could mean you are fed up with how things are, line 2, and line 4 is about not being sure how to respond due to doubts and getting side-tracked with how you're feeling. Keep to your original intention and be determined to achieve your aim of uniting (hx 8) in the right way. Your yearnings for a simpler way to communicate despite the obstacles can be achieved successfully. (Taken from Sarah Dening and Hilary's new book).
LR

 

[elizabeth]

Hm, that's rather hopeful (!) I hope it's not misleading... If my "union" can be achieved, then I'm happy to stay the course. I just am concerned that I will be beating a dead horse instead... What were all the previous hexagrams about "patience" and now this? Why did the Yi change the message?

Just looked at some other threads and the overall "exploring divination" run-down of hexagram 47.
Color code: green = generally about 47
blue = line 2 of 47
orange = line 4 of 47

From Exploring Divination about 47 generally: pictures a state of inner oppression. Externally, all is well, one has meat and drink. But one is exhausted by the commonplaces of life, and there seems to be no way of escape. Then help comes from a high place. A prince - in ancient China princes wore scarlet knee bands - is in search of able helpers. But there are still obstructions to be overcome, Therefore it is important to meet these obstructions in the invisible relm by offerings and prayer. To set forth without being prepared would be disastrous, though not morally wrong. Here a disagreeable situation must be overcome by patience of spirit

Where, pray tell is that prince-helper from a high place????!!!!!
I have to meet the obstructions by prayer, but I am praying daily to no result.

Rosada further pointed out, of line 2, that it is a matter not of natural but of supernatural relationships, and therefore the religious act of sacrifice is mentioned. Since it accords with the time, going to the prince who is kindred in spirit is in itself not a mistake, but it cannot be done, because the six in the third place obstructs the way and makes it dangerous.

Further from MyKey on another thread: 47.2 You are ground down, all tied up. Part of this may be the way you are walking your path; take a look at how you are looking at things. Life isn't always a bowl of cherries but then what makes you think it should it be?
47.4 - Take a good look at the choices you have made to bring you to this point. Try to understand and look at how to make the best of where you are.Then take a good look at the choices you have to make for the future and why you want to make them.

Hm. Too vague and broad here... Yes I'm tied up, bc i dont know how to break through> I tried being patient (zero results) and I tried what I thought was extending the proverbial hand of communication and making my self vulnerable (zero results). but the yi gives me hex 8 so what's a girl to think?

Other notes: "line 2: must sacrifice something and if not there will be more misfortune." The only thing i have to lose is my pride, my self-respect and my heart.
"line 4: thru humiliation you can achieve the end of oppression."
And finally, I noted that Hex 8 *does request* you ask again of the Oracle. I haven't yet done that.


My_key later added: "Changing the way you think and behave will be good for you. However, if you don't then you'll get more of the same - you may be experiencing external positives or negatives but whatever it is you are feeling out of sorts inside. Don't fret.That's how you are at the moment and you are already doing the best you can. [...] if you keep doing the same things you get the same results."

Yes, and I feel I have already tried 2 tactics. I'm out of ideas at this point.

47.4 - Depression " instead of proceeding with speed and energy where
their is need, he begins in a hesitant and measured way. "

Frank wrote: "47 is the hexagram that brings you back to your own basis. The hexagram of loneliless, nobody can help you here in 47, you are on your own.The hexagram that is known in literature as one of the 4 most difficult hexagrams(together with 3, 29 and 39).In 47 you have to change your course radically. And the third line the most personal of the Man lines is changing. So deep inside you can find this change, a change of history. In this hexagram the Great Man brings you good fortune, you need perseverence. In 47 you go that deep that you have to meet the Great Man. And what is deeper than to change your own history, your old paterns?"

No doubt about me being alone, on my own, and helpless here. Hence all the readings.

line 4 also, according to rosada/wilhelm: A well-to-do man sees the need of the lower classes and would like very much to be of help. But instead of proceeding with speed and energy where there is need, he begins in a hesitant and measured way. Then he encounters obstructions. Powerful and wealthy acquaintances draw him into their circle; he has to do as they do and cannot withdraw from them. Hence he finds himself in great embarrassment. But the trouble is transitory. The original strength of his nature offsets the mistake he has made, and the goal is reached. -Wilhelm

So presuming I"m the well-to-do here, acting with hesitation and measure won't make progress.
(I can't find a parallel for the rich people here who are distracting me bc i dont know any rich or poor/good or bad who are distracting me now). But with *inner strength* the goal is reached.

Of hex 8, interestingly, it is written, "hexagram 8 represents inferiors docilely following the lead of the Superior Man. A strong man is needed to hold the people tgether. Water on the earth is the image of holding together."

So if i want to hold a rel'ship with this man together, *I* have to be the strong one, which presumably means i have to be the active one. (what's wrong with this picture? If he was interested...he'd be the strong man no?)

Confused...

 

[elizabeth]

I wanted to comment on this thread, 4 years after the fact. Many of these posters have no doubt moved on. I myself have not been on the forum in years now, as I haven't had time. But first, i wanted to again deeply thank everyone who engaged in discussion with me, who tossed around ideas, who sent support, friendship and love. Looking back 2009 thru the end of 2010 was one of the worst periods in my life. I'm lucky to have friends on this forum who cared enough to discuss it all with me.

I wanted to update about what happened with ArcheryMan, bc to this date it/he is a mystery to me.
About the time of the last post above, his best friend's wife called me to tell me lies about him. I knew she was telling lies (they were transparent and poorly crafted) in an attempt to dissuade me from liking or loving him or dating him. He after that stopped phoning me. I knew she had done the same to him, but in this case, I presume, her lies succeeded. Christmas/New Year's came,I had a serious surgery that had me in bed for 3 weeks. He brought me flowers and food -- I thought perhaps he was interested, but later he said "thats just what friends do." He went on a ski trip that I couldn't join in, since i could not walk at the time. On the trip, he slept with a girl, and she got pregnant. They got married just after the boy was born, and have now a 3 or 4 year old son and are still together.
So that ended really poorly for me. I still feel he was the one that got away and i will always wonder if she had not told the lies to us both, what he might have done, if he had any feelings for me at all...

I just wanted to update in case it relates to the hexagrams.

 

[elizabeth]

I actually just got this identical pair of hexagrams -- 11.2 to 36-- regarding a current relationship. My question was "what if i stay with him long term"? The issue is that this time, I don't feel in the darkness (36) --it is more a question of, is he as "right" as he feels? In this context, I can't see what 11.2 means...

My vote is that 11.2 is *the* most difficult line in all of the hexagrams!