39. Chien / Obstruction

[rosada]

Ordinarily it is best to go around an obstacle and try to overcome it along the line of least resistance. But there is one instance in which a man must go out to meet the trouble, even though difficulty piles upon difficulty: this is when the path of duty leads directly to it - in other words, when he cannot act of his own volition but is duty bound to go and seek out danger in the service of a higher cause, Thus he may do it without compunction, because it is not through any fault of his that he is putting himself in this difficult position.

"The King's servant is beset by obstruction upon obstruction." But in the end there is no blame in this.

This line is in the relationship of correspondence to the ruler of the hexagram, the nine in the fifth place. The ruler stands in the very center of the danger (upper trigram K'an) His servant hastens to his aid, but since his path leads through the nuclear trigram K'an, he meets with one obstruction after an another. However, this situation is not due to his own position; the line is in the trigram Ken, Keeping Still, hence it is not inherently necessary for it to go into these dangers. It is only duty, arising from the relation to the ruler, that leads it into peril. Therefore it remains free of fault ever in the most dangerous situation.
-Wilhelm

 

[rosada]

39.2 "Just doing my job"?

 

[charly]

39.2 "Just doing my job"?

Rosada:

It's good that you came back. I also was out of town some days. I hope that your mom be well.

About 39.2 maybe for doing your job you must walk cautiously, like the king's minister.

The chinese text has some joke in this line, the word translated OBSTRUCTION is duplicated applied to the minister:

王wang2: king
臣chen2: minister / official / servant
蹇jian3: difficulty // lame / crippled
蹇jian3: difficulty // lame / crippled

匪fei3: no / not / non / / bandit /
躬gong1: body // oneself / personally
之zhi1: 's / him / her / it /
故gu4: reason / cause

Kings Minister JIAN-JIAN
Non-body's reason

The royal Minister walks like a crippled, not by a physical reason, not by a fault of his body, but as requierement of his own job. He moves cautiously.

Rick Kunst renders JIAN-JIAN as HOBBLING AND WOBBLING (tanks, Luis), looking, I believe, for some joke.

Maybe the Royal Minister is scared not because of any own fault, but because the value of his own skin. If you appreciate your skin, be careful.

Yours,

Charly

 

[rosada]

Love it! Thanks Charly!

(You too, of course Frank. Geez after reading your posting on internet manners I'm totally paranoid of hurting anyone if I don't acknowledge their feelings. Is there some place we can post an all purpose Apology and Forgiveness Statement?)

Rosada

 

[fkegan]

Love it! Thanks Charly!

(You too, of course Frank. Geez after reading your posting on internet manners I'm totally paranoid of hurting anyone if I don't acknowledge their feelings. Is there some place we can post an all purpose Apology and Forgiveness Statement?)

Rosada

Hi Rosada,
Don't worry. No need for paranoia. It wasn't my feelings that were hurt in that post, more an academic and generational problem of only the most technical of details.

Looking at hex 39 obstruction, with each line being a different situation to be dealt with... the first line is the very beginning, the place of the toes. When this line changes it forms hex 63, all complete and in perfect order so just change perspective and go back to your finished work.

Line two is the structure, the place of the legs, so the ministers funny walk is the image. When this line changes it yields hex 48 the well that delivers dependable resources to all over the long haul. When this oracle comes up, you have a mission like a well and any obstructions is to be dealt with like a well needing repair.

Not a very sophisticated interpretation, just the line places and how they change. The same in any translation or no words at all.

Frank

 

[rosada]

39.3
Nine in the third place means:
Going leads to obstruction;
Hence he comes back.

-- --
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When the preceding line shows the official compelled by duty to follow the way of danger, this line shows the man who must act as father of a family or as head of his kin. If he were to plunge recklessly into danger, it would be a useless act, because those entrusted to his care cannot get along by themselves. But if he withdraws and turns back to his own, they welcome him with joy.

"Going leads to Obstructions; hence he comes back."
Those within rejoice over it.

This strong line is the ruler of the trigram Ken and has two weak lines depending on it. Its strength might induce it to move outward, but there it encounters the trigram of danger (K'an). Hence it turns back, and the six in the second place, which has a relationship of holding together with it, rejoices.

-Wilhelm

 

[Sparhawk]

九三 往蹇來反。
jiu3 san1 wang3 jian3 lai2 fan3

 

[frank_r]

39.3
Nine in the third place means:
Going leads to obstruction;
Hence he comes back.

-- --
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--x--
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39 is changing in 8. So there is a possibility to find people who are thinking and feeling on the same level.
The third line is a Man line in the interieur. So it has three influences. It is the top line of mountain (phase earth) this line is the personal perspective of how things work here on earth. At the same time it is also the central line of water. So this is the central part of the fear or power one is feeling.
And it is also the first line of trigram fire. So our mind is also in play.

This line is on top of the interieur. On the border with the exterieur. There is some chaos because of all the influences one is feeling in the interieur. And it is the question if one can keep direction.

This is a obstruction of a personal nature. Fear in the mind that one is not finding people to connect with.

Frank

 

[fkegan]

Or even more simply:
The third line place is personal passion. It is expressing and exhausting itself leaving the whole hexagram as 8, all open space except for the overall organizational plan in the fifth place. This highlights what is your ultimate commitment? Thus the line judgment--time to let go of your personal passion seeking to press on in your own terms, better to remember your family and return to them.

Or in the alternative, hex 39 water atop mountain, the snowy high peak. By this change, now the runoff is flowing along the topography down to the sea. The season of winter impasse is ending, your passion is melting the accumulated ice cap, changing to the time when the snow melt runs along the streams and rivers, normal life returns and it is time to prepare for the spring planting.

Frank (Kegan)

 

[maremaria]

How do you explain the fact that all the lines in 39 (except 2 and 5 ) begin with the same phrase “Going leads to obstructions” and the advice to come.
In lines 2 and 5 seems to give the opposite advise

Has to do with the position, to what they represented, something else ?

 

[fkegan]

The details of traditional commentary and the awesome wisdom of the KWS

How do you explain the fact that all the lines in 39 (except 2 and 5 ) begin with the same phrase “Going leads to obstructions” and the advice to come.
In lines 2 and 5 seems to give the opposite advise

Has to do with the position, to what they represented, something else ?

Maria,

Wilhelm notes that the 2nd and fifth lines correspond and are both correct (a yin line in an even number place to a yang line in an odd numbered place). They are therefore and OK and work together despite the difficult situation. All the other lines are less cool and need to not try to progress upward through the line places. Each of them is directed a slightly different way, all explained in Wilhelm Book III.

It is an example of the commentary accepting the overall hexagram as the prevailing conditions (in this case major obstruction to just moving straight ahead as planned) and then looking at each line place as a separate and independent operator caught in that overall situation.

In terms of the overall system of the King Wen Sequence, this hexagram is the maximum energy of physical attraction creating the social system of the family through deferred gratification. As a form of birth control in these ancient times, apparently men were taught that such sexual practices would increase their longevity and health (too many kids would be hard on them). So this hexagrams gives advice on the various ways to carry this out successfully.

Each of the line places would then represent ways of dealing with this intense energy. The 5th line/2nd line work together to have a child since all the conditions and relationships are just right. The other lines find other ways to release or sublimate that energy at this time. All the blocked lines under the Yang ruler or husband, 1,3,4 are instructed to turn elsewhere.

The final line, Yin in the 6th place, is already beyond the fifth place and in the place of transition to the subsequent conditions. This is the place for mature sublimation of this intense human energy into creative arts or major business achievement. A recent note in the newspaper cited new research finding that market players doing major deals are under a strong testosterone influence, it is a sexual desire that impels them to risk big to make major profits.

Frank

 

[rosada]

39.4
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Six in the fourth place means:
Going meets with obstructions,
Coming leads to union.

This too describes a situation that cannot be managed single handed. In such case the direct way is not the shortest. If a person were to forge ahead on his own strength and without the necessary preparations, he would not find the support he needs and would realize too late that he has been mistaken in his calculations, in as much as the conditions on which he hoped he could rely would prove to be inadequate. In this case it is better, therefore, to hold back for the time being and to gather together trustworthy companions who can be counted upon for help in overcoming the obstructions.

In the appropriate place one finds support.

The sixth in the fourth place is related to the six at the top, but should it wish to go there it would find a weak line at the pinnacle of danger. Return to its own place leads to union. The fourth place is that of the minister, who serves the strong ruler above, the nine in the fifth place, and who is supported from below by the strong assistant, the nine in the third place. In the appropriate place (the dark forth place is the proper one for a yielding line), it achieves union with these two strong lines.

 

[Sparhawk]

六四 往蹇來連。
liu4 si4 wang3 jian3 lai2 lian2

 

[fkegan]

hex 39 4th line moving...

The fourth place is the heart or soul and this open Yin space changes as it develops a clear focus and steps out of the overall background. Each line has a natural sequence to follow, from its lower numbered line place toward higher number. This is the overall hexagram or timing of the Obstruction or Valley Forge, when just letting things take their natural course is not available and each line place is now obliged to deal with that overall situation in its own unique way for its position and its status (yin or yang).

This is the Yin line in the 4th place, the heart and soul which starts out open, but here is developing a clear focus. When it changes, the hex 39 obstruction becomes hex 31--the monad of this entire set of 10. By restraint, the sexual energy not just released (hex 40) becomes the means of sublimating desire into the appreciation of the original romantic attraction that started this whole family founding relationship.

Instead of moving along in the automatic way, this line comes to appreciate the relationships it is already in the midsts of (yang lines above and below) and joins them as it changes to form from the inner (nuclear) trigram Li the resulting nuclear trigram ch'ien. The fire of passion develops a clear feeling in the heart which unites with the overall organization or plan that expresses heaven, sunshine, process building the romantic marital bond that keeps the family on track.

Frank

 

[charly]

六四 往蹇來連。
liu4 si4 wang3 jian3 lai2 lian2

W/B translated 39.4 as «Going meets with obstructions, Coming leads to union.»

往wang3: to go in a direction / GOING [MEETS WITH (?)]
蹇jian3: (surname) // lame / crippled / wouded at the foot // difficulty / OBSTRUCTIONS
來lai2: to come / COMING [LEADS TO (?)]
連lian2: (surname) / join / to link / UNION

But if the subject is the Lame, the Crippled?

Going Crippled, coming allied.
(The Crippled goes and comes with allies)

往wang3 to go has three components, person, crossroads and lantern / oil lamp → guide
蹇jian3: under a roof or cover, a foot surrounded by straw → maybe the image of a clog and to walk with difficult.

Charly

 

[frank_r]

39.4
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Six in the fourth place means:
Going meets with obstructions,
Coming leads to union.

.

Here is the top Man line, a yin line that is part of Fire and Water (twice).
As being the yin part of fire it is the fual, the matter what gives Fire it's visible and radiant character. But it is also the yin part of Water, what gives water it's invisible character. So this yin line is the yin part of the yang and the yin of the yin.
As being yin on the fourth place it feels itself at home. And has a strong relation with the yang Ruler on the fifth place.

Here is someone that is in the beginning visible only through other people, who he is regarding as his friends because they are also part of the same situation. But because he is follwing his own path and heart he keeps undisturbed. And because of this, other people who also look for peace in there own heart will follow him.

Frank (Roosen)

 

[rosada]

Beautiful, Frank. I really love it when I can get an understanding of the lines based just on the trigram images, the line position and yin and yang! No need to figure out King Wen or even Wilhelm!

Does anyone have any theories as to what Obstruction is? I mean, does this hexagram give us any clue as to what creates Obstruction in our lives? My own take on it is that when we enter a new situation, that is, when a new soul enters the already established world, that creates 37. The Family. Our entry brings a new perspective to the group. (A baby changes a partnership into a family). This new perspective will naturally be different from everyone elses' viewpoint and thus 38.Opposition. (Parents see the child as a baby, baby sees himself as an adult) The Opposition to our viewpoint is what creates Obstruction. Then 39. Obstruction gives advice on how to deal with the Obstruction so we can bring our new insight into manifestation. So I'm seeing Obstruction as caused by new ideas opposing old ideas.

I posted this quote on another thread this morning but I think it belongs here..

"Any idea tends to realize itself unless opposed by other ideas. You will know when opposing ideas are gone - results happen."

 

[charly]

... Does anyone have any theories as to what Obstruction is?...
... The Opposition to our viewpoint is what creates Obstruction...
... So I'm seeing Obstruction as caused by new ideas opposing old ideas....

Rosada:

I like it. Babies must overcome obstructions, they walk with difficult and have their own ideas.
It reminds me that Waley says that JIAN could mean WOUNDED AT THE FOOT. In the old character for JIAN the foot appears enveloped like a baby in the womb.

It also reminds a CLOG, a wooden shoe filled with straw, a peasant shoe: walking with difficult too.

A baby wounded at the foot or a peasant baby has a hard path to walk but sometimes they can overcome the obstructions.

Anciently babies wounded at the feet used to be exposed but some of them become cultural heroes sometimes fortunate, like Ciro or Moses, sometimes not, like Oedipus.

Maybe JIAN (obstruction or crippled, lame) means somebody not born noble, born without prerrogatives, son or daughter of his own acts.

Yours,

Charly

 

[rosada]

Thanks Charley, you made my day!

 

[rosada]

39.5
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O Nine in the fifth place means:
In the midst of the greatest obstructions,
Friends come.

Here we have a man who is called to help in an emergency. He should not seek to evade the obstructions, no matter how dangerously they pile up before him. But because he is really called to the task, the power of the spirit is strong enough to attract helpers whom he can effectively organize, so that through the well-directed co-operation of all participants the obstruction is overcome.

"In the midst of the greatest obstructions, friends come." For they are ruled by the central position.

The fifth line is the ruler of the hexagram. As the middle line of the upper trigram K'an, it is in the center of danger - that is, in the midst of the greatest obstructions. However, it is related to the six in the second place, to the six in the fourth place, and also to the six at the top, and these come as friends to help it, because it rules them by virtue of its central position.

 

[Sparhawk]

九五 大蹇朋來。
jiu3 wu3 da4 jian3 peng2 lai2

 

[fkegan]

Hi Rosada,

Hex 39.5 The fifth line place of the overall organization or mental control expresses and exhausts itself changing to form the hexagram 15. Modesty.

The Yang line in the 3rd place of personal passion remains, with all other line places becoming open Yin, channeling, isolating, purifying and drawing it out.

In terms of the set of 10 beginning with hex 31, personal relationship attraction, hex 39 is the intensification of sexual energy by mental control (for birth control and magical benefits which is being influenced by its spouse ( line 2) and family (lines 4 and 6) and accepting the normal course of events...

Frank

 

[frank_r]

Rosada thanks .:bows:

Frank

 

[rosada]

I'm seeing 39.5 manifesting in my own world at this time as we hear the news reports of the Pope traveling the United States at this time and bringing up many difficult issues.

Looking at the words of Wilhelm about 39.5 and see how they describe Pope Benedict
"Here we see a man who is called to help in an emergency"
Particularly re the sex scandal.

"He should not seek to evade the obstructions, no matter how dangerously they pile up before him."
He should not avoid those who wish to question him or the church.

"But because he is really called to the task, the power of his spirit is strong enough to attract helpers whom he can effectively organize, so that through the well-directed co-operation of all participants the obstruction is overcome."
Pope Benedict really does seem called to the task. He seems to understand exactly what needs to be done and is doing it as in meeting with the abuse victims in person and announcing that the Catholic Church does not need more priests, just good ones. The old belief -obstacle- that the church could not change and would not survive has just been kicked to the curb.

I think we'll be seeing a lot of the beliefs - stuck patterns - we thought would never change evolve fast enough for us to seem them change before our eyes in the months ahead as Pluto re-tools beliefs in Sagittarius this summer and manifests the new understanding when it turns direct into Capricorn this fall.

 

[fkegan]

hex 39.5 the crown of celibacy

Hi Rosada,

The Pope's visit does highlight hex 39.5 in current events. The ruling line of the hexagram of restraining sexual energy (9th of the set of hex 31). Following this line as it changes is also instructive... The ruler, Yang line in the 5th place of overall organization and mental organization expresses and exhausts itself. The entire hexagram of supporting lines changes its overall meaning (and lynch pin organization, the 5th place, now an open Yin place) to yield the hexagram 15--Modesty.

That would suggest the ultimate outcome should be the elimination of the celibacy vow, moving beyond saying only those with functioning male genitalia can be priests and thus allowing priests to marry, women to be priests, nuns to have their own families, and priests to celebrate whatever sexual orientation God gives them-- with their spouses or at least consenting adults.

The 9th of the Monad of sexual attraction becomes the fifth of the Monad of Peace or the social situation where the Divine (Energy of Sunshine) is fully integrated into the Planet to promote growth and development. The fifth place in the decad is the middle of the narrative of process or the clouds up in the weather system of the Water Cycle, or in this set the Yang passion deep within the Earth making it fertile, though at the moment unseen. Then in 16 this energy will emerge in spring thunder which the Chinese saw as coming out of the earth to grab the clouds and make them rain.

I think we'll be seeing a lot of the beliefs - stuck patterns - we thought would never change evolve fast enough for us to seem them change before our eyes in the months ahead as Pluto re-tools beliefs in Sagittarius this summer and manifests the new understanding when it turns direct into Capricorn this fall.

Pluto will Rx into the Zodiac degree whose Sabian Symbol is the Pope from mid-June to late July. At least by my ephemeris and counting the signs from 1-30 (not 0 to 29).
Pluto will emerge, direct in Capricorn 1 about Boxing Day (26 December 2008) and spend about 15 years stomping to attain the Ultimate Commitment to Firm Control.

Frank

 

[rosada]

39.6
--0--
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Six at the top means:
Going leads to obstructions,
Coming leads to great good fortune.
It furthers one to see the great man.

This refers to a man who has already left the world and its tumult behind him. When the time of obstructions arrives, it might seem that the simplest thing for him to do would be to turn his back upon the world and take refuge in the beyond. But this road is barred to him. He must not seek his own salvation and abandon the world to its adversity. Duty calls him back once more into the turmoil of life. Precisely because of his experience and inner freedom, he is able to create something both great and complete that brings good fortune. And it is favorable to see the great man in alliance with whom one can achieve the work of rescue.

 

[fkegan]

Hex 39.6 >>Hex. 53

Hex 39.6 The final open Yin space is developing focus changing this hexagram of maximum sexual intensity into hexagram 53 Diamond Cutting. Here creative sublimation of the personal passion of line 3 is achieved and the Yang focus in line place 5--overall organization and mental control is united with this newly developing focus upon what will come next, the subsequent conditions into which this timing will dissolve.

Intensity is brought to a higher level, transcending the basic source from which it arose. Thus Gia-Fu's Taoist line judgment: ADVANCE HITS STONEWALL. COME BACK. GREAT MERIT. LUCK. FRUITFUL TO SEE GREAT MAN. To soften your toughness by turning inward leads to nobility.

Frank

 

[getojack]

39, six at the top

上六 往蹇來碩。吉。利見大人。
shang4 liu4 wang3 jian3 lai2 shuo4 ji2 li4 jian4 da4 ren2

 

[charly]

上六 往蹇來碩。吉。利見大人。
shang4 liu4 wang3 jian3 lai2 shuo4 ji2 li4 jian4 da4 ren2

Jack:

往wang3: to go in a direction
蹇jian3: (surname) / difficulty // lame / crippled // slow /
來lai2: to come /
碩shuo4: large / big /

吉ji2: lucky /

利li4: advantage / benefit / profit / sharp /
見jian4: to see / to meet /
大da4: big / great /
人ren2: man / person / people /

蹇jian3 I have two alternatives:

Going crippled coming great.
Going slow coming tall.

碩shuo4 has two components, STONE and HEAD, I was told that the stone is not meaningful, only phonetic (are you sure that 碩 is «shuo»?)and that the meaning is big / great, but I believe that could be HARD + HEAD = PIGHEADED.

Maybe going dininished, coming HEAD / CHIEF, is the fullfillment for the promise of line 1, to become reputable?

Did you say something about coming twice?

Yours,

Charly

 

[rosada]

I'm seeing 39.6 as representing birth, or actually re-birth. Would "hard headed" describe the head pushing up through the birth canal?

This line and the resultant hexagram seem to describe a seed at that final moment of pushing up through the earth (39.6) and then beginning the process of Gradual Development above ground (53).

The line itself reads like a description of a soul realizing it would love to stay in heaven and not have to come back to earth just yet, but it's too late, he's already in a body, he's duty bound to be born. "It furthers one to see the great man," reassures that once born the soul will connect with assistance.

Here's a sequence to consider...
39.5 The Pope calling on his friend Jesus to comeback and establish His kingdom.
39.6 Jesus didn't really want to have to come back into all of this just yet but a promise is a promise. Besides, once in body he can call on God for help in doing what he needs to do, which is...
40. Pardoning mistakes and forgiving misdeeds.