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41. Sun / Decrease

rosada

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41. Sun / Decrease

-----
-- -- above KEN KEEPING STILL, MOUNTAIN
-- --
-- --
----- below TUI THE JOYOUS, LAKE
-----

This hexagram represents a decrease of the lower trigram in favor of the upper, because the third line, originally strong, has moved up to the top, and the top line, originally weak, has replaced it. What is below is decreased to the benefit of what is above. This is out and out decrease. If the foundations of a building are decreased in strength and the upper walls are strengthened, the whole structure loses its stability. Likewise, a decrease in the prosperity of the people in favor of the government is out and out decrease. And the entire theme of the hexagram is directed to showing how this shift of wealth can take place without causing the sources of wealth in the nation and its lower classes to fail.

The hexagram Sun is based on the idea that the top line of the lower trigram is decreased in order to increase the top line of the upper trigram; hence it is the six in the third place and the nine at the top that are the constituting rulers of the hexagram. But, since the ruler is the one who is enriched through decrease of what is below and increase of what is above, the governing ruler of the hexagram is the six in the fifth place.

THE SEQUENCE
Through release of tension something is sure to be lost. Hense there follows the hexagram of DECREASE.

MISCELLANEOUS NOTES
The hexagrams of DECREASE and INCREASE are the beginning of flowering and of decline.

This hexagram consists of Tui below and Ken above. The depth of the lake is decreased in favor of the height of the mountain. The top line of the lower trigram is decreased in favor of the top line of the upper trigram. In both cases, what is below is decreased in favor of what is above, and this means out and out decrease.

When decrease has reached it's goal, flowering is sure to begin. Hence DECREASE is the beginning of flowering, as INCREASE, through fullness, ushers in decline.
 
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Sparhawk

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yicard41.jpg
 

rosada

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How perfect to introduce your new friend and his disappearing act at the time of Decrease!

Indeed, I think he symbolizes the meaning better than the image on the Chinese card, which seems more evocative of 23, "Those above can ensure their position only by giving generously to those below."
 
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rosada

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THE JUDGEMENT

Decrease combined with sincerity
Brings about supreme good fortune
Without blame.
One may be persevering in this.
It furthers one to undertake something.
How can this be carried out?
One may use two small bowls for the sacrifice.
 
M

meng

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Luis, that card made me think (dangerous I know). But then I saw the individual, giving it up to the greater controlling power. Makes sense. And throwing the tiger his two recent catches (two sacrifices), really an ingenious image.
 
M

meng

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Even down to the tiger's arched back resembling the mountain.
 

Sparhawk

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Spot on imagery, indeed! You'll notice the pitchfork and his bow an arrow. Perhaps he could put up a fight, but, like you said, it is smarter to choose your battles and move on, leaving behind some of your possessions, if that's what it takes to get away. Not sure what to make of the crane and the spots under the wing. I would've thought that cranes were not hunting game and perhaps it is just flying away from the upcoming fray. Intriguing...
 

Sparhawk

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Why TWO bowls and not one ? which is the significance of two ?


損 有孚。元吉。旡咎可貞。利有攸往。曷之用。二簋可用享
sun3 you3 fu2 yuan2 ji2 wu2 jiu4 ke3 zhen1 li4 you3 you1 wang3 he2 zhi1 yong4 er4 gui3 ke3 yong4 xiang3

It should be noted that gui3 means most likely a basket and not ceremonial vessels, as those used in Shang and Zhou sacrifices. I believe it speaks of modesty or modest means to offer a sacrifice. It is the sacrifice what's important and not the vessel to carry it out. It is perhaps also that the subject is advised to compensate for his/her modest means by offering a double amount of sacrificial food. Something along those lines, I think...
 
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maremaria

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Thanks Luis. Make sense that : “It is the sacrifice what's important and not the vessel to carry it out.” Maybe if one has not the appropriate vessel can still find the way to offer the amount of food want to.
I asked about two because once I had that hex ,seemed like two bowls where for two different recipient. The weird idea cross my mind was: an offer to earth and one to heaven.
 
M

meng

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Perhaps he could put up a fight, but, like you said, it is smarter to choose your battles and move on, leaving behind some of your possessions, if that's what it takes to get away. Not sure what to make of the crane and the spots under the wing. I would've thought that cranes were not hunting game and perhaps it is just flying away from the upcoming fray. Intriguing...

41 is the realm of submission to a higher or greater authority. It's not as though what is submitted is lost (i.e. running away) but that it serves a being or cause greater than itself (i.e. sacrificed). The individual is reduced to the benefit of the whole.

Dunno, but perhaps the crane represents his status? Not much status when you're running for your life! lol
 

fkegan

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I remember somewhere reading that this refers to a usually 5 bowl sacrifice which is being done with just two little baskets. But I can't find the reference...

Gia-Fu translated hex 41 as:
"DECREASE. HAVE FAITH. PRIMAL LUCK. NO BLAME. MAY HAVE ZEST. FRUITFUL TO TAKE ACTION. HOW TO DO IT? TWO BASKETS OF GRAIN FOR THE OFFERING.
Decease below and increase above, this is the way the Tao moves upward. Decrease and have faith, primal luck, no blame, may have zest, fruitful to take action, how to do it? You may use to baskets of grain for the offering. There is a time for these two baskets, there is a time to weaken the toughness and to strengthen the weakness. Decrease, increase, fullness and emptiness all go with the time."
Image:Marsh below Mountain. Decease. The Master restrains his anger and suffocates desire.
 

Sparhawk

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41 is the realm of submission to a higher or greater authority. It's not as though what is submitted is lost (i.e. running away) but that it serves a being or cause greater than itself (i.e. sacrificed). The individual is reduced to the benefit of the whole.


Agreed. If we go by the image in the card, though, the guy is all about saving his hide. Perhaps what he leaves behind is not lost in the sense that the "sacrifice" offered (thrown to the face of the tiger, actually... :D) would allow him to accomplish keeping his skin intact.
 

Sparhawk

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I remember somewhere reading that this refers to a usually 5 bowl sacrifice which is being done with just two little baskets. But I can't find the reference...

Five bowl sacrifice? That would be an interesting reference detail.
 
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meng

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Agreed. If we go by the image in the card, though, the guy is all about saving his hide. Perhaps what he leaves behind is not lost in the sense that the "sacrifice" offered (thrown to the face of the tiger, actually... :D) would allow him to accomplish keeping his skin intact.

Agreed! Blending with the environment and the people is the way to survive socialism. Claiming your individual rights is the quickest way to be eaten.
 

fkegan

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If the arched back of the Tiger is the trigram Mountain, then perhaps the Marshy Lake is the puddle forming under his spread open legs (further indicated by the prongs shown pointing down). With a tiger that close, his reflex should be to empty his body of things that might cause infection when he is injured by the Tiger.

Moving on, to hex 41 from the Yang line structure:
Hex 41: Sacrifice (Ritual). The focus upon the process (3 Yang line places) going from Prior (1st place) to Next (6th place) with only the structure ( 2nd place or where you stand, personally) as focus. The magic of sacrifice-- a voluntary loss turns into a powerful gift to the Divine bringing about the transition to the desired Next reality.

As the Monad of the 5th set of 10 hex 41 represents the human relationship to the Divine expressed in terms of rituals and deep feelings that brings about the sacred connection.

Frank
 

fkegan

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Five bowl sacrifice? That would be an interesting reference detail.

I checked it is not in Wilhelm, when I think about it, all that comes to mind is Gia-Fu making that comment from his reading his Chinese commentaries. The idea is more than
It is the sacrifice what's important and not the vessel to carry it out.
It is neither the quantity of rice nor the simple basket involved, but the sincere feelings in the heart, of course combined with the precise protocol of the ritual. If you are without much in the way of fancy vessels or lots of disposable assets, a simpler form of the ritual is still effective.

This is further shown in the 10th hexagram of this set--hex 50 Ting. The maximum sacred energy that powers the Revolution hex 49 in its traditional role of bringing about the overthrow of the corrupt old dynasty through the heartfelt spirit of the people aided by Heaven--becomes the final quiescent state of the process of sacrifice ritual in the highly developed ritual vessel the Ting.
 

rosada

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Decrease does not under all circumstances mean something bad. Increase and decrease come in their own time. what matters here is to understand the time and not try to cover up poverty with empty pretense. If a time of scanty resources brings out an inner truth, one must not feel ashamed of simplicity. For simplicity is then the very thing needed to provide inner strength for further undertakings. Indeed, there need be no concern if the outward beauty of the civilization, even the elaboration of religious forms, should have to suffer because of simplicity. One must draw on the strength of the inner attitude to compensate for what is lacking in externals; then the power of the content makes up for the simplicity of the form. There is no need of presenting false appearances to God. Even with slender means, the sentiment of the heart can be expressed.

The firm top line of the lower trigram is decreased, that is, replaced by a yielding line; at the same time, the yielding top line of the upper trigram is increased, that is, replaced by a strong line, and this strong line makes its way upward. The upper element is enriched at the expense of the lower. Those below bring a sacrifice to the ruler. If this sacrifice is offered sincerely it is not wrong; rather, it results in success and all things desirable. Nor is thrift then a disgrace. All that matters is that things should happen at the right time.
-Wilhelm
 
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bradford

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One thing I found helpful in grokking 41 and its generous conceptual word play:

Think of the lake at the foot of the mountain as containing less water, but not
less of what was in the water. It's become a fish concentrate, like a fruit juice
concentrate. This can be thought of as "enriched" instead of impoverished, and
this is perfectly consistent with the Zhuyi's wordplay.

Another thing to think about is efficiency. If you can triple efficiency, it doesn't
matter if you're reduced to half the power - you still come out ahead. And if it's
the situation that has forced to to find such a solution, even if it took something
away from you, it has still been a net benefit or gain.
 

rosada

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THE IMAGE

At the foot of the mountain, the lake;
The image of DECREASE.
Thus the superior man controls his anger
and restrains his instincts.
 

fkegan

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THE IMAGE

At the foot of the mountain, the lake;
The image of DECREASE.
Thus the superior man controls his anger
and restrains his instincts.

The image shows the extreme difference in elevation or potential energy between the deep lake and the high mountain. The graphical symbolism shows a Yang line up at the top, having been raised from the 3rd line of hex 11 (another monad of this second half) and now hanging over two open Yin lines. In modern China this is the image of the hydro-electric dam where the elevation potential is converted to electric power. In more general terms, the lake is a ready source of water vapor and the mountain a convenient cold sink to tap that humidity and show it as snow cap.

In all perspectives this is the hexagram of losing a bit from the inner or lower reservoir which becomes nourishment to the visible and impressive mountain top. The fundamental process of connecting to the Divine and spiritual through material sacrifice. The junzi by controlling and restraining his animal reactions and emotional impulses thus accumulates psychic energy that can be used for Creative and sacred expressions.

Frank
 

getojack

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41: Sŭn
sun3.gif


CCDICT definitions: [1] [v] detract; damage; injure; destroy; harm [2] [v] lose; [n] loss [3] [v] diminish; reduce; decrease [4] weak; emaciated [5] [v] ridicule; jeer at [6] wicked and mean; cruel [7] long-term emaciation (Chinese medicine)

h41.gif


Dà Xiàng:
象曰‧山下有澤‧損‧君子以懲忿窒欲‧
xiàng yūe: shān xìa yŏu zé. sŭn. jūnzi yĭ chĕng fèn zhì yù

xiang4: The image
yue1: says,
shan1: A mountain...
xia4: below it,
you3: there is
ze2: a marsh....

Sŭn.

jun1zi: The nobleman,
yi3: accordingly,
cheng2: punishes
fen4: anger
zhi4: (and) obstructs
yu4: desire.
 

rosada

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The lake at the foot of the mountain evaporates. In this way it decreases to the benefit of the mountain, which is enriched by its moisture. The mountain stands as the symbol of a stubborn strength that can harden into anger. The lake is the symbol of unchecked gaiety that can develop into passionate drives at the expense of the life forces. Therefore decrease is necessary; anger must be decreased by keeping still, the instincts must be curbed by restriction. By this decrease of the lower powers of the psyche, the higher aspects of the soul are enriched.
-Wilhelm

-----
-- -- Mountain. Stubborn strength.
-- -- Hardening into anger.

-- --
----- Lake. Unchecked gaiety.
----- Passionate drives.
 
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rosada

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the lake evaporates; its waters decrease and benefit the mountain's vegetation, which thereby is furthered in its growth and enriched. Anger rises mountain high; the instincts drown the heart like the depths of the lake. Inasmuch as the two primary trigrams represent the youngest son and youngest daughter, passions are especially strong. The anger aroused must be restrained by keeping still (upper trigram Ken), and the instincts must be curbed by the confining quality of the lower trigram Tui, as the lake confines its waters within its banks.
-Wilhelm
 

rosada

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Nine at the beginning means:

Going quickly when one's tasks are finished
Is without blame.
But one must reflect on how much one may decrease
others.

It is unselfish and good when a man, after completing his own urgent tasks, uses his strength in the service of others, and without bragging or making much of it, helps quickly where help is needed. But the man in a superior position who is thus aided must weigh carefully how much he can accept without doing the helpful servant or friend real harm. Only where such delicacy of feeling exists can one give oneself unconditionally and without blame.
 

fkegan

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hex 41.1>> hex 4 Sacrifice >>Pupal (Pupil)

The timing of Sacrifice expressing and exhausting its roots leading to the timing situation where the only focus is upon structure and the Next--the situation of the cocoon. The fundamental sacrifice that cuts the living root in order to further develop the process overall. The caterpillar sacrifices its life as it knows it to give birth to the butterfly.

Gia-Fu's Taoist translation:
HE FORGETS HIS OWN AFFAIRS AND HURRIES ON. NO BLAME. DELIBERATE ON DECREASING. To decrease what is excessive is to unite with above. Better to decrease the bad than to increase the good.

Frank
 
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maremaria

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The caterpillar sacrifices its life as it knows it to give birth to the butterfly.

What do you mean by that ? Does it really the caterpillar sacrifices its life ?
I see it as a metamorphosis and I have connect it mostly with hex 3 where the seed becomes a plant a tree or something else .

Maria
 

fkegan

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What do you mean by that ? Does it really the caterpillar sacrifices its life ?
I see it as a metamorphosis and I have connect it mostly with hex 3 where the seed becomes a plant a tree or something else .

Maria

Hi Maria,
The first line of hex 41 changes to become hexagram 4. Sacrifice becomes Pupal or cocoon. The hexagram of graphic line patterns showing hex 11 losing a yang line in lower trigram to gain a yang line at the top of upper hexagram signifies a loss made as a sacrifice bound to the high heavens, if that timing (hex 41) is changed by having its roots (line 1) moved from yang to yin, this process of connecting to the Divine becomes internal like the transformation of caterpillar to butterfly. All metaphor as Luis might say.

Does the caterpillar lose its life as it knows it? Yes, what else is metamorphosis? Compare a caterpilar with a butterfly, their activity, etc. Hex 3 is about thunder and rain. Hex 4 (related to hex 3 as an inverted line structure pair) is about training a pig in a pit or transforming an unruly son into a gentleman or a greedy-eating caterpilar into a butterfly of beauty and elegance who may not eat at all.

The lines come first, then the changing hexagrams emerge and finally we may put imagery and metaphor to help explain the process. The caterpilar is a prior stage to the butterfly as a seed is the prior stage to a plant, but hex 41 is about loss becoming sacred feeling by its voluntary and altruistic ritual or sacrifice.

Each line must describe how the overall process changes as that line place is a special focus of attention and by changing, in this case yang for yin, changes the overall hexagram. First comes the structure then comes the metaphor and imagery. The lake under the mountaing becomes the spring bubbling at the base of the mountain---the prior conditions become less clearly focus which highlights the structure and the Next conditions (which is the essence of the cocoon).

I am sure the caterpilar experiences the process as a lot of work, but the metaphor is for us humans, not individual caterpilars and it is built upon the lines of hexagrams not the actual natural history of insects.

Frank
 

rosada

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"Going quickly when one's tasks are finished": this is right because the mind of the one above accords with one's own.

The lowest line stands for people of the lower classes. Though strong itself, it stands in a relationship of correspondence to the weak six in the fourth place, which represents an official. The one above needs help from the one below, and it is readily offered by the latter. Instead of the word for "finished" the word for "through" or "with" appears in the old texts; thus the sentence would read: "Going quickly with services" - i.e., to help the one above - "is without blame." This means self-decrease on the part of the one below for the benefit of the one above. The second half of the line, which reads literally, "One must weigh how much one may decrease him," refers to the one above, who claims the services of the one below. It is his duty to weigh in his mind how much he may require without injuring the one below. Only when this is the attitude of the one above does it fit with the self sacrifice of the one below. If the one above should make inconsiderate demands, the joy in giving felt by the one below would be decreased.
-Wilhelm
 

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