48. Ching / The Well

[ravenstar]

48.1
Six at the beginning means:
One does not drink the mud of the well.
No animal comes to an old well.

If a man wanders around in swampy lowlands, his life is submerged in mud. Such a man loses all significance for mankind. He who throws himself away is no longer sought out by others. In the end no one troubles about him any more.

"One cannot drink the mud of the well": it is too far down.
"No animals come to an old well": time forsakes it.

The line is weak and at the very bottom, hence the idea of mud in the well. It is hidden by the firm line in the second place, hence the idea that no animals come. It remains quite outside the movement. Time passes it by.

Some thoughts.....

The words stagnation and in the doldrums come to mind. Nothings happening! The more we think that the muckier the well gets. We spend so much time on things that aren't going anywhere....and our impatience, our fears as well as conflicting voices pull us back and forth.....our wheels are thick in mud!

But if we could accept there is a greater purpose involved in what is happening and reflect on what is not working at the moment, we could be open enough to receive new information.

 

[rosada]

I find it meaningful to note the last line of the previous hexagram as somehow introducing the conditions discribed by the first line of the current hexagram.
The previous hexagram left us with..

47.6
He is oppressed by creeping vines.
He moves uncertainly and says, "Movement brings remorse."
If one feels remorse over this and makes a start,
Good fortune comes.

So now it seems 48.1 is warning us what happens if one does NOT make a start, if one continues to wallow in uncertainty(47.6).. one loses all significance for mankind (48.1)...

48.1
One does not drink from the mud of the well.
No animals come to an old well.

I spent the day visiting my father. He is 90 and needing to sort his belongings to move to a senior residence. It is so sad. At one time he his opinion was sought out by the highest movers and shakers of the land. That life is over but if he could move a new life would open up for him. Instead he is stuck in all this old stuff uncertain what to keep and what to toss and feeling no one cares anymore.
A very sad line indeed.

 

[rosada]

Any thoughts on how 48.1 "One does not drink the mud of the well. No animals come to an old well." changes to 5 "Waiting. If you are sincere, You have light and success. Perseverance brings good fortune. It furthers one to cross the great water. Thus the superior man eats and drinks, is joyous and of good cheer"?
If you received 48.1>5 as a responce, in general terms how would you interpret it?

 

[frank_r]

Any thoughts on how 48.1 "One does not drink the mud of the well. No animals come to an old well." changes to 5 "Waiting. If you are sincere, You have light and success. Perseverance brings good fortune. It furthers one to cross the great water. Thus the superior man eats and drinks, is joyous and of good cheer."
If you received 48.1>5 as a responce, in general terms how would you interpret it?

Hello Rosada,

First line of 48 is changing, trigram wind changing into trigram heaven. Changing wood into metal, So the proces is going underground, creativity is going to the less visible parts. This already long ongoing proces gets a new impuls. The first line is not getting any help from the fourth, it's a yin line on a yang place so it doesn't feel comfertable there. There is not much help from the second line either. It feels totally isolated. That's why it has to wait, the well is old maybe because what happened in 47. It is still to short to have confidence. But with some perseverance the process will change to the good, it is important now to give the inner parts nourishment.

Frank

 

[rodaki]

dear all,

Formal knowledge is limited here, but maybe a hint from personal experience?
I received 5.1 on 22/10 (at the end of the 47 thread) on a question on inner/self-criticism question (which in my case was followed by 5.3 leading to 29, the Teachings/Dangers hex.)

"Mud" in hex.5 is a place around which one should not wait (5.3: attract bandits)
In 48.1 it appears to lead to waiting, but perhaps it is The Well which is Waiting,
from Tuck Chang's site (http://www.iching123.com/48_text.htm):
"If the old well is not dredged and cleaned in time it will be deserted"

Leaving draught (47), mud is an indication that water is near but not yet within immediate reach. Nigel Richmond writes on 48.1:
"it is time to sink a new well, to seek other sources of nourishment for our life"

Mud may not be drinkable but it carries potential (clay is a kind of mud, man was made from clay according to christian faith, people and birds have used mud to built lodgings, mud can be used to built the walls of the well)
Perhaps one needs to get dirty (not like in 'dirty talk' but like in getting in a 'sticky' situation) and work through mud.

Other sources (48.1):
LiSe
"Initial 6 : The well is muddy, no drinking. Ancient well, no birds.
Birds don't drink stale water, people don't listen to stale knowledge. Not the knowledge revealed decides about the value of wisdom, but the life it contains and passes on."

Bradford Karcher
"The drought is not helping the old well’s reputation. The things that one finds in a
well when it is this far down are better left unthought of. Between many decades
and centuries of slowly silting up and many passing cultures drawing the aquifer
down, time is taking its toll on this old well. It still will endure deeper cycles than
rain and shine. Of course it will stay in its place, and not go to where it looks best.
Time might not care what happens to the well, but it cannot be blamed for abuse.
When the birds and frogs go elsewhere for water, it might be time to begin again.
Lots of questions might be asked here about what might have gone wrong, but the
answers all point one way: there is no better time than a drought to make repairs
on a well, to muck it out and dig it deeper. Time doesn’t care but in time we must."

http://www.hall-of-man.com/i-ching/default.asp
"Bottom line. The bottom line thus does not suffer from any lack of an impressive outer appearance; it obviously is located in the center of an existing city. But the well here depicted is impaired in its functionality. The mud of the well means that the wooden framework - the lining inside the well - has broken down so that dirt from the walls are being mixed with the water. Naturally, what comes out of the well cannot "arrest" anyone.

The implied allusion to birds has been explained in this way: a fully functional well provides a moist area where trees grow and where birds flock. It was thus an excellent place to put traps in order to catch birds (for food). If the well is jammed, nothing is caught."

Did also a search here in Clarity but couldn't find much. People are up to their necks with working and cleaning and can't gather round the well? (Yi said 50.6 to 32, inner workings?)

:bows:
Dora (aka rodaki)

 

[ravenstar]

Any thoughts on how 48.1 "One does not drink the mud of the well. No animals come to an old well." changes to 5 "Waiting. If you are sincere, You have light and success. Perseverance brings good fortune. It furthers one to cross the great water. Thus the superior man eats and drinks, is joyous and of good cheer."
If you received 48.1>5 as a responce, in general terms how would you interpret it?

Last night I went to visit a friend I hadn't seen in months. I was looking forward to hearing all the exciting news of her recent vacation. Instead, for some reason, she seemed stuck in the past, telling life stories I'd already heard, wounded stories that seemed focused on negative events of her life. Nothing had changed from the last time I saw her and I realized she seemed to think that her life would never change because she believed her problems were insolvable.

I had contemplated leaving early.....she was really draining me.....but I stayed hoping something new and different would eventually spring up. It was quite a challenge to stay grounded and not get hung up on her old experiences. I'm glad I did stay. Things did change, albeit slowly. I learned a common friend of ours was in the hospital. He had apparently collapsed in the kitchen of his home. Unable to reach a phone or cry out for help, he laid there waiting, hoping someone would notice his sudden disappearance. It took two days before a concerned friend, who lived in the same complex, asked his whereabouts. Thankfully, he was found by the superintendent and taken to a nearby hospital.

I started to cry when told of David, an old gentle man, handicapped (mentally challenged)and with so many hardships. If I had left early, I may never have known. I'm planning on visiting David today, who will never see his home again......he's being sent to a nursing home.

ravenstar

 

[rosada]

Interesting!
Thinking how 48.1 does not automatically lead to death, but to Waiting... Suggests that in 48.1 situations one does not have to give up, that even if you can't do anything more than stay alive and watchful such an attitude will lead to change.

"People are either busy being born or busy dying."
-Bob Dylan

 

[Trojina]

I have always taken the point in 48.1 as not to wait around. Theres no point, nothing be had or gained simply by waiting. Something either needs to be done, ie the well be cleaned or whatever it is you do to wells, or move on to a new well. I generally find it turns up in worn out situations I'm still hanging around in waiting for something to change. This line tells me its not going to happen just by waiting, at least thats how I've always taken it

 

[rosada]

Nine in the second place means:
At the wellhole one shoots fishes.
The jug is broken and leaks.

The water itself is clear, but it is not being used. Thus the well is a place where only fish will stay, and whoever comes to it, comes only to catch fish. But the jug is broken, so that the fish cannot be kept in it.

This discribes the situation of a person who possesses good qualities but neglects them. No one bothers about him. As a result he deteriorates in mind. He associates with inferior men and can no longer accomplish anything worthwhile.

"At the wellhole one shoots fishes": he has no one to do it with him.

This line in itself is strong and central, but it is not in the relationship of correspondence to the ruler of the hexagram. The trigram Sun means fishes. The upper nuclear trigram Li means jug; the lower, Tui, means to break in pieces, hence the broken jug.

 

[rosada]

This line is so to speak the antithesis of the ruler of the hexagram. It is the place referred to in the second half of the Judgement (concerning the broken jug).
The phrase, "At the wellhole one shoots fishes," here translated in accordance with the old commentaries, was later also interpreted to mean: "The water of the wellspring bubbles only for fishes." The Chinese character 'she', shooting, also means figuritively the shooting forth of a ray. In any case, the meaning is that the water is not used by human beings for drinking.
-Wilhelm

 

[rosada]

If we ever want a different image other than a Well, I could see this line as a bunch of high school drop outs lounging in some crash pad shooting out the t.v. with b.b. guns.

 

[rosada]

I've decided recently to not post the next line until at least one other person posts a comment on the current line. Thus I've been holding off moving forward here at 48.2 . It occurs to me that this is sort of significant given that today is election day here in the U.S. I have been watching where we are in this I Ching study and thinking it would be kind of neat if we were exactly at 48.5 - the line about clear cold spring water indicating a leader of men. But no, that is not the message today. Rather we are at 48.2, which I see as I Ching giving a strong lecture on what happens to people if they neglect their opportunities and a stern warning to get out and exercise one's right to vote!

 

[rosada]

Back tracking for a moment, I just wanted to respond to Trojan's observation that 48.1 has often indicated to her that one should NOT Wait indefinitely. I think this is a very interesting example of how the I Ching - rather than being able to tell us what to do - gives a "snapshot" of the current situation, which allows us to view the situation from a more detached, less emotionally involved, position and then MAKE OUR OWN JUDGEMENT, and this explains why we can make mistakes following the I Ching's advice. It is not telling us what to do, it simply tells us the way things are. Hopefully this then resonates with our own inner knowingness - hopefully the bucket reaches down far enough! - and we get the Aha Moment. Problems start when the reading doesn't give us an instant gut level confirmation and we start trying to "figure it out." Once you start thinking about a reading you come to see more and more possible ways of interpreting the answer and you become lost all over again. I do anyway.

 

[Sparhawk]

I've decided recently to not post the next line until at least one other person posts a comment on the current line. Thus I've been holding off moving forward here at 48.2 .

Here. Don't ever say I don't do anything for you. I just drew it.

Click image to avoid blurring.

​

 

[Trojina]

Back tracking for a moment, I just wanted to respond to Trojan's observation that 48.1 has often indicated to her that one should NOT Wait indefinitely. I think this is a very interesting example of how the I Ching - rather than being able to tell us what to do - gives a "snapshot" of the current situation, which allows us to view the situation from a more detached, less emotionally involved, position and then MAKE OUR OWN JUDGEMENT, and this explains why we can make mistakes following the I Ching's advice. It is not telling us what to do, it simply tells us the way things are. Hopefully this then resonates with our own inner knowingness - hopefully the bucket reaches down far enough! - and we get the Aha Moment. Problems start when the reading doesn't give us an instant gut level confirmation and we start trying to "figure it out." Once you start thinking about a reading you come to see more and more possible ways of interpreting the answer and you become lost all over again. I do anyway.

Yes but I guess I do see the idea of 48.1 meaning one should wait for things to get better as a misunderstanding of it. Of course if that has been your experience who am I to argue, but i got the impression you'd mentally figured out 48.1 was about waiting rather than refer to your experience with the line ? If the well is muddy and useless what good will waiting do ? It doesn't miracoulously renew itself, that the point. One either redigs or whatever one does to wells or finds another well. I can't imagine it advises just sitting by the old muddy well and waiting. OTOH yes indeed the Yi does often seem to tell us how things are (rather than advise, thoug i think it does also advise of course) so in that sense the line may be saying 'you are sitting waiting by an old well'...but er still why would you want to do that

 

[rosada]

Wonderful, Luis! I am looking forward to reading the whole book.
Uh, now could you post something about 48.2? (If people missed them, I posted the lines to 48.2 on the previous page.)

 

[rosada]

Yes, Trojan, my experience with 48.1 has only been trying to mentally figure it out, rather than getting my interpretation from a real life question/answer. Right now I'm Waiting for the maid to come do the dishes stacked in the sink. She hasn't come in for about 48 years, but I have patience...

 

[Trojina]

Yes, Trojan, my experience with 48.1 has only been trying to mentally figure it out, rather than getting my interpretation from a real life question/answer. Right now I'm Waiting for the maid to come do the dishes stacked in the sink. She hasn't come in for about 48 years, but I have patience...

its an old sink where maids don't come...you need a ...dishwasher

 

[my_key]

Well here goes on 48.2.
The lights are on but nobody is at home.(the maids left them on when they left )
There are Inner qualities or personal attributes available to be used but are not being used in the right manner or not being recognised as being available to use.

 

[ravenstar]

Back tracking for a moment, I just wanted to respond to Trojan's observation that 48.1 has often indicated to her that one should NOT Wait indefinitely. I think this is a very interesting example of how the I Ching - rather than being able to tell us what to do - gives a "snapshot" of the current situation, which allows us to view the situation from a more detached, less emotionally involved, position and then MAKE OUR OWN JUDGEMENT, and this explains why we can make mistakes following the I Ching's advice. It is not telling us what to do, it simply tells us the way things are. Hopefully this then resonates with our own inner knowingness - hopefully the bucket reaches down far enough! - and we get the Aha Moment. Problems start when the reading doesn't give us an instant gut level confirmation and we start trying to "figure it out." Once you start thinking about a reading you come to see more and more possible ways of interpreting the answer and you become lost all over again. I do anyway.

I think 48.2 is about being lost. We begin to notice that what we're thinking about and doing is not getting us where we want to be. This can make us angry, frustrated and depressed, leaving us feeling emotionally drained and physically exhausted.

When baffled or upset, we need to slow down, take a deep breath and have the courage to believe we have the inner wisdom to solve our problem. Also, there are people out there who are willing to help us....we only need to reach out for their support.

I did see my friend in the hospital. He has literally hit rock botom and will need to start a step by step program to slowly regain his health which he now realizes was neglected for far too long. David also realized that alot of his anxiety and insecurity came from a deep fear that he was alone. He now knows this isn't so! So many visitors (seen and unseen) and friends have come to encourgae, uplift and support him.

Symbols Fish have been seen throughout many different cultures and traditions and seem relates to spiritual paths, nourishment, and mobility and life.

 

[frank_r]

Nine in the second place means:
At the wellhole one shoots fishes.
The jug is broken and leaks.

The water itself is clear, but it is not being used. Thus the well is a place where only fish will stay, and whoever comes to it, comes only to catch fish. But the jug is broken, so that the fish cannot be kept in it.

This discribes the situation of a person who possesses good qualities but neglects them. No one bothers about him. As a result he deteriorates in mind. He associates with inferior men and can no longer accomplish anything worthwhile.

"At the wellhole one shoots fishes": he has no one to do it with him.

This line in itself is strong and central, but it is not in the relationship of correspondence to the ruler of the hexagram. The trigram Sun means fishes. The upper nuclear trigram Li means jug; the lower, Tui, means to break in pieces, hence the broken jug.

Line two, it's the central line of the lower trigram, this line is yang the same as the fifth, the place of the ruler of this hexagram. So there is no resonance with the ruler on five. This central line of trigram wind- the trigram of longlasting invisible processes is changing in trigram moutain. Now we can change our personal human perspectives.
The nucleur trigram of lake is changing in water. Hopefully there is enough water(history) that can save the fish. And that can bring a new fertile time.
48 is also the hexagram of our character, with this second line we are working on our interieur part of our being.

Frank

 

[rosada]

48.3
The well is being cleaned, but no one drinks from it.
This is my heart's sorrow.
For one might draw from it.
If the king were clear-minded,
Good fortune might be enjoyed in common.

An able man is available. He is like a purified well whose water is drinkable. But no use is made of him. This is the sorrow of those who know him. One wishes the prince might learn about it: this would be great good fortune for all concerned.

 

[my_key]

48.3 - You have the abilities to succeed, but if you don't believe in yourself and really show what you can do, how do you expect others to believe in you and how do you expect to fulfill your dreams?

Mike

 

[ravenstar]

48.3
An able man is available. He is like a purified well whose water is drinkable. But no use is made of him. This is the sorrow of those who know him. One wishes the prince might learn about it: this would be great good fortune for all concerned.

In trying to understand 48.3 I'd like to think aloud with all of you and with you help be put on the right trace....

First, I see this 'man' as someone who is impressionable, passive and receptive.....someone who perhaps has the ability to abosrb facts, particularly the past. His memory is extrodinary. He is extremely sensitive, helps others willingly who are amazed by his intuitive faculties.....he can see things that most others cannot see. He can get to the point of things very quickly. Sometimes he may even have been accused of being illogical.

This man has a way of winning the confidence and trust of others....they willingly confide in him. He'd make a great psychologist....I bet his ability to see into symbols exceed those of 'ordinary' folk.

The problem with this he may ignore his own progress and lose himself in whatever happens to take his attention. Is this a way of avoiding to assert himself in the world? Does he tell others what they want to hear? Is he a person who runs from one worthy cause to another without actually creating anything from or for himself? Is his impressionable nature an easy target for others to abuse or use? Is he dishonest with himself in trying to please others?

Then another thought......we know it is vital to our health, our immune system to help others. But to do so we must filll ourselves first.....which some of us aren't even sure how to do.....or it could be felt, believed or seen by others as an act of selfishness.

So it must take alot of courage to realize that we need to learn how to filll ourselves first...then our energy will flow freely to others.

ravenstar

 

[rosada]

I'm thinking it's interesting that this line coincides with all the articles in the news here just now about Obama putting together his cabinet. Plenty of able people out there but they wont be asked to serve unless "the prince might learn about it."

 

[frank_r]

First, I see this 'man' as someone who is impressionable, passive and receptive.....someone who perhaps has the ability to abosrb facts, particularly the past. His memory is extrodinary. He is extremely sensitive, helps others willingly who are amazed by his intuitive faculties.....he can see things that most others cannot see. He can get to the point of things very quickly. Sometimes he may even have been accused of being illogical.

This man has a way of winning the confidence and trust of others....they willingly confide in him. He'd make a great psychologist....I bet his ability to see into symbols exceed those of 'ordinary' folk.

The problem with this he may ignore his own progress and lose himself in whatever happens to take his attention. Is this a way of avoiding to assert himself in the world? Does he tell others what they want to hear? Is he a person who runs from one worthy cause to another without actually creating anything from or for himself? Is his impressionable nature an easy target for others to abuse or use? Is he dishonest with himself in trying to please others?



Then another thought......we know it is vital to our health, our immune system to help others. But to do so we must filll ourselves first.....which some of us aren't even sure how to do.....or it could be felt, believed or seen by others as an act of selfishness.

So it must take alot of courage to realize that we need to learn how to filll ourselves first...then our energy will flow freely to others.

ravenstar

I already see this person in front of me, when you can communicate with yourself and have bonds with your inner self the bonding with other people will come eventually without no problem. But in many cases it is important to know how to protect yourself, first to communicate with yourself and then give something away.

Here is the third line the most ambitious line of the six, with this line 48 changes into hexagram 29, the hexagram of fear and strenght(as you face the fear and go beyond it), also the hexagram of double water. So eventually the water will float again.

This third line is also the first line that stands on the correct spot, it's yang where it should be yang. And it has a resonance with the top line. The top line is working together with the ruler on 5. So after some time this line is also getting help from the outside world. After they recognised that inner communication is essential for real recovery.

Frank

 

[meng]

I think Ravenstar's right on regarding the personification of the water that's in the well, and I wonder if she's picked up some of those character traits from the relating hex 29? If so, good catch.

 

[my_key]

I already see this person in front of me, when you can communicate with yourself and have bonds with your inner self the bonding with other people will come eventually without no problem. But in many cases it is important to know how to protect yourself, first to communicate with yourself and then give something away.

Hi Frank
You have made an good post again here.
I was interested in what you might think about the giveaway in respect to 48.3?
Is the giveaway something like giving up the barriers that have prevented you from making the real connection to self, or do you see something different here?
Also do you see the help from the outside world as being prompts to help you make the giveaway, or help after you have made the giveaway?

Mike

 

[meng]

I think sorrow is not the well's nor the water's, but belongs to those who pass by. If only the sovereign (autonomous mind) were made aware, then all could drink until filled.

Goes back to the pole which lowers the pot must be long enough to reach the water. In this case, the water is accessible, the brain just needs to recognize it.

 

[frank_r]

I was interested in what you might think about the giveaway in respect to 48.3?
Is the giveaway something like giving up the barriers that have prevented you from making the real connection to self, or do you see something different here?

Hello Mike,

Personally I think that there are always barriers, the barriers also make you, but you have to be real connected with your own barriers. With this connection with your deeper self there will be at the same time the connection with the rest of the world because you are the world in this part of your deeper self.

Also do you see the help from the outside world as being prompts to help you make the giveaway, or help after you have made the giveaway?

Mike

The connection with the help is important not the help itself. That's also part of water, it is the connection with history. The heaven line in the middle that is always looking where the flow of life is.

Frank