do you belive in DESTINY?

[bamboo]

Hmmm. I want to see your book manifest into the wider world LiSe...I'm quite sure that's part of your destiny!

agreed. from here, it looks like it is a done deal, just waiting for the publisher to make an entrance.

 

[gene]

Hello everyone

I understand people's wish to ascribe to me certain wants and such. I'll let it be at that, except to say, "there are no wants or wishes on my part." I just post what I can post.

Trojan. I understand your saying I am Americacentric etc. Please try to understand, this conspiracy is global in nature, not just American, and it is centered more in the international banking cartel than in any government, in fact, all governments are ultimately controlled by them. I was born in the United States and understand the meaning of the U.S. constitution as a means of freeing people from the freedom of tyranny that existed in Europe at that time. Since then many countries have become much freer, for example Great Britain has the magna carta. However, there is a force in all countries that hates freedom. I understand people's revulsion to believing that. It does not seem to be your experience. Yet an overview of the world's affairs is sufficient evidence to show otherwise.

That being said, I hope to get onto more mundane matters now, if possible. I appreciate all of the input negative or otherwise. We are all here to learn about ourselves and grow, and that includes me.

Oh, by the way, the building of a body of light was the goal of all martial artists in Japan and China, and they used the concept of Chi to reach that stage. The taoist version of the I Ching is also based on this. The story of Jesus esoterically is the story of the building of a body of light. That was the esoteric meaning of Jesus' saying, "touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my Father." He had not yet finished the process. I touch upon that subject in my book in Amazon kindle but don't go into it in depth. I understand your not wanting to believe in it. That is your choice. I support whatever choice people make.

Gene

 

[cesca]

Hmmm. I want to see your book manifest into the wider world LiSe...I'm quite sure that's part of your destiny!

Me too. And I'm all too familiar with doing some creative work and then lacking something (skill, connections, patience, whatever) to manifest it in the wider world. I'm gradually learning to collaborate with others who have those skills, connections, patience, whatever.

I think destiny is naturally linked to enjoyment which in turn, has a thread to the soul. It is of one's true essence which is why the activity is so enjoyable - it's a vocation not one's job.

Totally agree. When you're living out your true nature, there's a quality of joy to it, even if it's tough going.

 

[sooo]

When you're living out your true nature, there's a quality of joy to it, even if it's tough going.

Yes. I think they go together, tough going and living true nature. With no resistance, we literally wither away. Even when there is no resistance, we have to sometimes create it, if only to be strong and supple enough to continue on.

 

[Tohpol]

Yes. I think they go together, tough going and living true nature. With no resistance, we literally wither away. Even when there is no resistance, we have to sometimes create it, if only to be strong and supple enough to continue on.

That reminds me of the West coast of Scotland and the creativity of my father. He was very sporty, active and body-centered - never thought of himself as "creative". In the last ten years or so he's been making walking sticks the traditional Scottish way with sheep and goat horn. The horns are very tough and you have to heat them slowly in order to make them pliable and workable. Then you sand them and polish them etc. He carves the horn into certain animals. His workshop is a little wooden "bothy" next to the house in the middle of a forest and it has a really special atmosphere - one of contemplation and peace yet imbued with hard work from the past and present. The smells in this little workshop are a mixture of dry wood, honey and moss and glue. He spends his time fixing things, (bridges) making sticks, tending an extensive garden and walking the hills. He also keeps bees and stores their honey in the summer. My Mother on the other hand is equally at home though she is much tuned into the "spirit" of the place. They make a nice Yin and Yang couple in fact.

So, the environment where they live is very tough and inforgiving yet immensely beautiful. You have roe deer roaming about as well as otters and ospreys which can be seen on the Loch nearby. There is even a thriving community of red squirrels which can be found in the deciduous trees not far from my parents. But most special of all there is a small group of wild cats which inhabit the rock escarpments and gorges in the hills around the glen, some of which are the oldest in the world. There are also many old celtic burial mounds, standing stones and castles dotted about. It's a land that is breeming with raw power.

So, this constant interplay between the beauty of Nature and it's inevitable life-cycle of predator-prey is really strong here as I suppose in any place where nature is stronger than urban life. My parents fit in this environment like a glove.

Photo of region - just down the road from where my folks live.

I guess what's coming to mind here is the importance of place and where we put down our roots which for me can have a strong resonance to the mind / body matrix. Perhaps where the places we are drawn to and eventually live and become part of can help ground our purpose and vision and thus add to the likelihood of manifesting our destiny.

 

[rodaki]

what a beautiful thing to read in opening my computer Topal . . thank you
I think a great description of beliving in destiny
which reminded me of another name for destiny, which is 'weird' and it is also related to 'turning' and 'bending' and 'becoming' and . .

The common factor in all those descriptions is that sense of weirdness: that there's something strange that is outside of our control - something which we can describe only in hints, suggestions or feelings. There's a specific feeling that we'd call weird, too: it's often described in terms such as "it sent shivers up my spine". Weird...

But like the word 'weird' itself, we can use that feeling to tell us when we're in the presence of the wyrd - when there's a momentary sense of 'everything, everywhere, everyone, everywhen' all coinciding together. It's a choice-point, when quite literally anything could happen: that's the feeling, of course, but that also is the reality - if we choose to make it so. It seems weird, perhaps, but we do already know what wyrd is: one of the most powerful ways to come to understand the nature of the wyrd - and the choices it offers us at such times - is simply to notice how and when we (and others) use the word 'weird' - and remember that 'weird' is a noun, not an adjective. The more we learn to notice that, the more chance we have of seeing the choices hidden within these weird moments.

Often the only real choice with wyrd is simply to notice it - notice that there's something happening that's wider than our habitual understanding of the world. That in itself is empowering: we grow, in knowledge, in empathy with others, and - we'd hope! - in wisdom. Yet at times there's far more at stake than that: in a brief moment of weirdness, our entire life can change - though sometimes it's very difficult to tell whether it was really for better or for worse...

That's the other key characteristic of 'real live weirdness': there's always a choice, but there's also always a twist - a sense that nothing is quite what it seems. It's what makes 'control' an impossible myth; it's what makes Murphy's Law the real law that it is. But it's also what creates new options, new possibilities, where before - with our 'normal' way of seeing the world - there seemed to be none.

So is 'weird' a noun - or simply an adjective? Your choice - but remember there's always that weird twist...!

http://www.tomgraves.org/weirdisa


(a rather long quote but I couldn't leave out anything!)

 

[sooo]

Topal, if you have any images of your father's horn walking stick, I'd love to see one.

It gives a new twist, or perhaps a very old one, to 43.4, both from LiSe's "Speaking Staff" and being assisted by an animal that is far better equipped to climb around rough terrain than a human would naturally be. The staff carries strength, instinct and balance of a wild sheep or goat.

 

[gene]

If anyone hasn't seen the "Matrix" movie trilogy, I strongly suggest it. It gets more and more into purpose and destiny as the movie goes on. This movie series is deep, very very deep, and I suggest that the creators of the movie are likely part of a "secret society" of some sort. I have been watching it over and over lately, and each time I pick up a piece of esoteria that I had not caught before. I strongly recommend this movie series.

Oh, by the way Ile, I missed your posts somehow. Thanks for pointing some things out. I agree with you that if people don't like my posts they can just disregard them, and a lot of people do. I can tell. I hope people won't disregard my posts however, as I intend to put a lot of knowledge and information here in the future both on the I Ching and other esoteric subjects that I believe will be of use to people. Not trying to force anything down anyone's throats, just give people a chance to see from a higher perspective.

I have been remiss on doing my series on the relationships in the I Ching. I hope to have something posted at least by tomorrow if not later on today. People who have been on this site for a while know that I tend to get into something then lose sight of it later and not follow up. I do not intend to allow that to happen this time.

Best to all.

Gene

 

[Sparhawk]

R.T POWERFUL & ACCURATE: Video: Human Farming: The MATRIX as Farm http://t.co/9VgVNwO @prvcyovruld:

 

[Tohpol]

Topal, if you have any images of your father's horn walking stick, I'd love to see one.

It gives a new twist, or perhaps a very old one, to 43.4, both from LiSe's "Speaking Staff" and being assisted by an animal that is far better equipped to climb around rough terrain than a human would naturally be. The staff carries strength, instinct and balance of a wild sheep or goat.

Yes, I know that my Dad has taken a few snaps of his last batch though these were mainly just the twisty sheeps' horn variety. But I'll drop him a line and get him to send along a few.

I like very much the idea of the animal as a kind of totemic-intuitive GPS system....Fascianting! I'd never thought of it like that before. It makes perfect sense. I know there's quite a big difference between the European / aristocratic use of "walking canes" and the "staff" you mention which is of the Celtic / shamanic path.

I'm a great believer in that objects of any kind can hold memories, dreams and knowledge, rather like a hard drive. In order to access the data you have to change your level of awareness and of course, work on yourself to be open and balanced enough for such information to respond and for it to be interpreted accurately without the monkey-mind getting in the way. This ancestral knowledge seems to work very much like this - you can access that data bank that has accumulated at a different frequency to the material and which the spiritual-genetic body has a natural resonance to. i.e. You can speak to and use the wisdom stored in Nature from your own "clan".

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

Yes... destiny or fate defiantly is there. I'm not sure how mutable it is... it's still a mystery to me. I think it may be somewhat how it is explained in The Matrix trilogy. That fate was decided before you even came into the world - and it probably was even decided by you yourself. This goes against what some say that the "gods" decide fate as they see fit as you go through your life - think the Hindus say that.

I know fate works it's power in my life because i've looked at my fate through various means and it explains things in my life i've always wanted to verbalize but found impossible - just this conspiracy like feeling that IT MUST BE THIS WAY.

I have been told that one can change fate... perhaps but as of yet I have not been able to do ****.
I simply ride the wave like a helpless seaweed - hitting nearly every possible contingency on the way.

It probably is possible to determine your own fate - but that is probably reserved for only they very very wise and unusual.

I think fate is there as almost fetters for ignorance. Due to those limits you will have some progress on some level - the universe prefers novelty.

I really wish I could change my fate...

The Yijing told me I could - but I have yet to notice any major changes.

 

[unsubscribed_cm]

Oh, by the way, the building of a body of light was the goal of all martial artists in Japan and China, and they used the concept of Chi to reach that stage. The taoist version of the I Ching is also based on this. The story of Jesus esoterically is the story of the building of a body of light. That was the esoteric meaning of Jesus' saying, "touch me not for I have not yet ascended to my Father." He had not yet finished the process. I touch upon that subject in my book in Amazon kindle but don't go into it in depth. I understand your not wanting to believe in it. That is your choice. I support whatever choice people make.

Gene

Wow... Gene... I very much want to hear more about this... please tell me more.

 

[gene]

Cyclotron

I will do what I can about information. You can be certain I haven't done it myself, and do not know the full technique. Far too undisciplined to do it anyway. But I recommend as a start books on Chi Kung, or Qi Gong. Mantak Chia has several books out on Ch'i energy, and so does Yang Jwing Ming. Investigative mythologist William Henry discusses this in as far as he understands the ancient mysteries, including Biblical and Eastern as well. HIs website is:

http://www.williamhenry.net/index.html

He is friends with Dan Brown and they both wrote a book about the same time about secret symbolism in the capitol of the United States. I have met him, been to his workshops and they are quite fascinating, but for the most part the biggest part of this secret is still secret. Nevertheless, one can learn a lot. I would also recommend getting into a very traditional Tai Chi system or martial arts system. Most systems in today's world are watered down versions. Even those who are not will not openly teach you the secret, and even today's masters do not know it for the most part. In the long ago past though they did.

By the way, check out the work going on at CERN laboratories in (I forgot, I think) Sweden, or Switzerland. I think Sweden. These scientists are looking for what they call the "God Particle" by smashing atoms in an accelerator. There has been concern among scientists that these actions may cause a tiny black whole and suck the earth into it, but they are going on with it anyway. Also, there has been speculation, and this has been reported in respected publications, that there have been travelers from the future who have purposely interfered in the process. At the very least there has been strange things happen repeatedly that have slowed down operations. Now this may seem like it does not relate, but in a distant way, it does. Right now I can't say much more than that.

Gene

 

[seethis]

I don't believe in destiny or God or karma or anything else of this nature but I know that their are many belief systems out there. In a way not believing is also a belief system and in this sense I believe in the principle of doubt. I think that doubt is very useful and much more helpful in developing myself into a better person than destiny or God or karma - or anything of that nature. However, to much doubt is also not good because certain things I can know but refuse to know because of unresolved childhood trauma, unconcious issues of transference onto beliefs like destiny, God or karma - like metaphorical parent systems out there but tend to doubt them deeply and rather return to myself and my doubts which seem to help me to feel more real!

 

[heylise]

Been thinking what you meant by doubt, and I think I can 'feel' how that is. I don't believe in any 'system', church, whatever, and not in any god with a defined name. And yet I am very religious - which feels a lot like suspending things, not tying them to anything or tying anything to them. No form, no name, no place like out-there or in-here. Nothing "is" as it is, defined, it just 'might be', undefined. That way it has the entire space of universe, bigger or smaller than I can possibly know.

That way it stays divine. As soon as I give it a name or place or size, it is not divine anymore.

 

[gene]

A couple good quotes in a couple favorite movies or shows of mine.

The first is from "The Last Samurai" in which Tom Cruise as Captain Algren is asked by Samurai Katsumuri, "You believe that a man can change his own destiny?" To which Captain Algren responds, "I believe a man does what he can until his destiny is revealed."

The next one is from the Master of the Shaolin Temple in David Carradine's Kung Fu series, where young Caine asks, "But what if I make the wrong choice?" And the Shaolin Master replies, "Whatever choice you make, that is your destiny."

Gene

 

[heylise]

"Whatever choice you make, that is your destiny."
Gene

That summarizes my own view on destiny. Destiny as the result of your choices. And choices as the result of who and what you really are. Not what you decide, that is just a tiny part of your choices. The big mass of your choices is the total of what you are and add to yourself.

 

[superman]

Most ppl will use destiny as an excuse to become lazy. Sitting on your butt waiting for things to happen b/c you believe in 'destiny' won't cut it. Life rewards what is often hard to do, and becoming a passive believer in 'destiny' isn't one of them.

 

[seethis]

I meant doubt in the Cartesian way, cognito ergo sum, doubt as intrinsice and existential reassurance of being human (a thinking animal), I doubt therefore I think. While destiny is a bit of a woolly concept, doubt is not since it involves a healthy dose of in the world scepticism. However, I do admit that I am puzzled by the fact that I exist at all and tend to conclude that eternity, the idea of an underlying timeless process which I like to allocate the term unconsious to. I have no idea of whether this is true or not but how can it not be true that the world and me in it is more than experience, something beyond experience. Sometimes one seems to get a glimps of this, moments or snippets which feel "devine" but I rather like to reject this term and prefer terms from the world of aesthetics, like poetry, or beauty... What ever it is, it is deeply reassuring and possibly best left undefined. You said it heylise, if you you give it a name it is not anymore what it was before you named it. Well, they say that images often help where words fail, like a nightsky or a singing bird - but they too, they are only images, though less deterministic than words - music is another good one!

 

[dilson]

It is worth pondering

I have not read all the answers given to the question yet. The ones I have read are very interesting and worth pondering.
I believe that we have our freedom to choose which way we want to go, that is, we are granted the capacity to decide (free will) what to do. Our choice or action will determine a given result. Sometimes the outcome of our action is a bit different from what we have expected it to be because other people also have their freedom to act and react the way they want to and/or we are not allowed to have a different result yet.
It is given to everyone according to his/her deeds. Using a saying to illustrate my point: ' We harvest what we plant."
Yi jing points in its advice the need to act with ethics and respect for other human beings as a basis to succeed in life.
Thanks for posting this question ,it is very deep.

 

[Sparhawk]

Something to ponder...

The world has as many possibilities as imagination can imagine. There have been as many actual worlds as there have been imaginations capable of being substantiated. From here we arrive at once at the sole idea of Truth which can be called cosmically valid: it is synonymous with the idea of co-respondence between subject and object. In its lowest expression this idea is congruent with Truth in the sense of a multiplication table. But just as higher mathematics are distinguished from the lower by the fact that, as they ascend, they comprehend ever more mutable quantities within connexions valid and capable of being maintained, even so correspondence may mean, that Creative Spirit transforms the world in correspondence to itself. Understood thus, and thus only, the concept of a First Author, in connexion with what demonstrably happened in the sequel, has meaning and content. To this content belong not only natural evolution, but also re-Creation from out of Spirit. This and nought else is the meaning of the world conquests achieved by religions and philosophies. As they taught man to take a different view of things external, things actually became different. Without any kind of metaphysical prejudice, it may be accepted as proven Spirit co-operates in the formation of the world. And in our human world sense-bestowing Spirit, which experiences for itself, and imposes its own connexions on the universe, even means the ultimate resort.

Count Hermann Keyserling, South American Meditations, 1932​

He wrote that much earlier than 1932 but that year was the first edition of the English translation.

 

[meerkats64]

destiny & free will?

yes i believe in destiny eg you could try all your life to succeed with opposite sex & marry give it your all & if its not meant to be then thats destiny or fate but different destinies await us depending on choices we make or those imposed on us by others. But in sport only 1 team can hold Liam Mc Carthy cup, Champions League trophy,Sam Maguire Cup or premiership title so someone has to win someone to lose and draws cannot last forever that is example of fate. Parallel universes or multiverses imply that we are at present moment in time as you are reading this only living 1 out of many probabilities eg in 1 parallel universe you married another you single or 1 you are working another you are struggling to survive. some might say destiny is when you are powerless to change your fate while another your free will means you have options never forget wheel of fortune in tarot eg events in my past 7-8-2004, 11-11-2005, july 2006, june 2011 if they had worked out differently=not to my liking i would not be communicating on online clarity right now and someone would take my place! some believe free will is an illusion that things are already decided=destined=played out already=your fate is sealed but i disagree with that.