Clarity,
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Any thoughts as to why these gentleman drop the resulting hexagram? Have you tested this approach out? Have you noticed that the resulting hexagram is less consequential in one changing line answers from the Yi?
I am wondering if their thought is: since there is only one changing line which is almost an unchanging hexagram, the current energy sits more with the original hex...
The example I gave, 35.3>56 seems to support a theory like this (and there are a few of theses). I asked when aiding another:
will x return to y? in which Yi responded: 35.3>56.
I found this puzzling. 35 is progress, line 3 "all are in accord. remorse disappears" both of which would suggest a "yes" response to "x will return to y?" If I followed ewald, this would be the end of it. But 56 to me suggests a contradiction to the original hexagram, to which I would still not be able to feel comfortable with saying "yes" to the question to Yi. I have found a few such examples.
Any thoughts?
modestlearner
Any comments or guidance on this? Does this mean that the resulting hexagram is not considered important in understanding the Yi's answer?
Thank you, modest learner
Without saying I support the idea of ignoring the Zhi Gua, there is sense in which it makes sense. The meaning of the Zhi Gua is usually already imbedded in the text of the changing line, as a direction which the change is taking from the original or Ben Gua.
i have just tried this eclectic energies digital casting? is it approved of?
i have been using i ching online and i ching on love by ifate
also interpretations on www.answercult
if anyone feels i err doing this then please let me know thx
This morning I got a reading in which the related hexagram - and even the relating line - was important. There had been a little squabble with a very good friend, but she had to leave before we straightened it out again. Which is usually no problem at all.
But this morning I felt sad and also angry about it. So I asked Yi what to do. I got 54.6, and that made me really sad. Then I looked at the relating hexagram 38, and that was, for me, at least an advice not to "look askance". Accept differences.
But then I read 38.6, the relating line of the relating hex. I know, most people think it is not important, but my question was still not really answered. Maybe the answer was complete enough, but I was not yet. "At first he draws his bow, later he relaxes his bow." Aaaah!
Day feels bright again.
No, I ALWAYS look to the relating hex, and with only one moving line especially to the fanyao, to shed some light on the line I actually got. I was sad, my question was how to solve that – not the relation with my friend, that will get solved the minute I meet her again – but my own feelings. 58.6 made me more sad… so I went to the fayao, it seemed to me that the answer was not meant to make me sadder than I was. I assumed I missed something in the answer.With respect I tend see to this as you weren't happy with 54.6 as an answer so you had to look for something you liked a little better ie 38.6. You then took the auspice of 38.6 as your answer not 54.6. I'd argue if 38.6 were your answer you would have cast 38.6.
For clarification of 54.6. No substitute for it. And I had no insecurity about the relation, there was just this one little misunderstanding, and even that was not the problem. I asked what do do about it: about what it did to my feelings for the rest of the morning.Moreover i can't understand why you would take the mirror image, of the line you did cast, the fan yao ie almost the opposite of your answer, as the answer over the actual line you did cast
I don't think the fan yao was meant to be used as the actual answer but just to shed some light as the mirror image on the original line cast ? I think what you've done here is disregard your answer because it didn't suit you and take 38.6 as its more palatable to you...but its not your answer.
54.6 means theres some insincerity around the liason, that perhaps it really holds nothing much of substance...not that you must accept differences because it will all come right when you see suspicions were false (38.6)
I see the relating hex and the fanyao as images of the situation itself, no solution there, just "where am I, what is this really".… I know the fan yao does often cast light on the original line as a kind of reverse image, ie it is what the line you got isn't ,but here you say you specifically took the part about taking the bow and then relaxing as the key to your answer. So how does 54.6 play a part in that image ? Have you ended up taking 38.6 as your answer instead of 54.6 ? I'm interested in how you now see the significance of 54.6 in the answer ? have you disregarded it ?
I see the relating hex and the fanyao as images of the situation itself, no solution there, just "where am I, what is this really".
So what it really is, is me drawing my bow without any need for it. Yi tells me how to deal with that situation: 54.6. Now the line I got makes much more sense. There is no basket without substance – unless I make myself believe there is. It is up to me to make sure the basket is full. So I put down my bow and saw what had happened as what it really was: tiny. No empty baskets, on the contrary. Just one tomato in it was rotten, so throw it out and go on.
could you elaborate a bit the underlined Bradford ? do you mean the connection we see clearly between Line 57.5 and 18 is everywhere ?
Without saying I support the idea of ignoring the Zhi Gua, there is sense in which it makes sense. The meaning of the Zhi Gua is usually already imbedded in the text of the changing line, as a direction which the change is taking from the original or Ben Gua.
HUH?? I heard many meanings for the relating hex, but this one is new. Context, future, but reverse??Well I don't think the fan yao is an image of the situation itself, a reverse image maybe, so it shows 38.6 is what 54.6 is not. Theres no laying aside of bows in 54.6 IMO since it is almost the opposite of 38.6.
I see every line, positive or negative, as advice. If you do this, then this will be the result. If you do that, then that will be the result. If you offer empty baskets, then there will be no harvest. So don't offer an empty one, fill it!You got 54.6 but say there are no empty offerings here at all
:bows:On the 'second hexagram'.. <snip> As many have said, I too consider it as the contextual field of the reading: this is about that. ... But the actual conscious thought process and resolution seeking really begins at the "second hexagram", and it also returns to it at the end, but sometimes with a different layer of meaning: broader, deeper, more penetrating - which takes care of whatever problem or question is brought before the oracle, at least for the time.
This explains why I (or anyone) can suddenly freely move about after a reading, whereas before I felt bound and unresolved - something changed within me in principle, which liberated me. And I may walk away still not knowing what or how my mood or outlook seems so different, and the problem or attachment looks so much smaller.
That's a good question. It doesn't always help to explain the text like it does in the one you cite, nor do I think it was always a big part of the authors' thought processes in writing the texts (or the parts of them that survive). But I do regard it as a legitimate exercise to look for an implied zhi gua meaning in every changing line because I think it's fundamental to how the Zhouyi works. Besides, it stretcheth the mind in most salubrious ways.
As to the fan yao, I make an effort to use this one mainly to explain the line text, and not the situation I'm in.
This explains why I (or anyone) can suddenly freely move about after a reading, whereas before I felt bound and unresolved - something changed within me in principle, which liberated me. And I may walk away still not knowing what or how my mood or outlook seems so different, and the problem or attachment looks so much smaller.
HUH?? I heard many meanings for the relating hex, but this one is new. Context, future, but reverse??
I see every line, positive or negative, as advice. If you do this, then this will be the result. If you do that, then that will be the result. If you offer empty baskets, then there will be no harvest. So don't offer an empty one, fill it!
:bows:
There's another aspect to training the mind to find relevance in the Zhi Gua especially where it doesn't make sense with the text. If you look at the change as an interpolation between the Ben and Zhi Gua in the direction of the Zhi Gua (like 1.3 is an interpolation between 1 and 2), then you can start to see all changes as a movement between Ben and Zhi, even complex changes involving multiple changing lines. Although relying on your own imagination is a lot fuzzier than reading a text, and the process involves actually understanding the core menings of the two hexagrams that you are moving between, this still may help to resolve conflicts in interpretation when there are more than one changing lines. To be able to imagine yourself between any two gua would be like having your own Yilin.
Ignoring the second hex, to me, is like trying to play in a sew-saw without another person in the other side of the pole
if I'm not asking too much to provide an example of how one work on that ? I'm standing between hex 1 and 2 with line 1.3 on hand. do i take into account hex 10 too?
Clarity,
Office 17622,
PO Box 6945,
London.
W1A 6US
United Kingdom
Phone/ Voicemail:
+44 (0)20 3287 3053 (UK)
+1 (561) 459-4758 (US).