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dropping the second hex when there is one changing line?

anemos

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Not what I meant. I was suggesting something much simpler, more like doing a meditation. Such as: imagine yourself full or Qian's creative spirit. What is involved in moving from that to Kun's receptive state or no-mind? From full of yourself to full of the Other? For me that would be spending my Qian as though it were finite (or at least today's supply) and then go roll in the grass and giggle.
So in the change I would be somewhere between those two, moved to becoming less full of myself, looking forward to some giggling.


Ohhh, I see what you meant ! It very interesting !! Like it a lot.

thanks for sharing
 

modestlearner

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...so maybe 25.2.6>58 can be read as unexpected (25) joy (58) I use that example since it was certainly the sentence that was more relevant than either the 25.2 or the 25.6 in a reading of my own I recall.

So I got even more intrigued by this idea of a single changing line....and this example is particularly elegant interpretation of Unexpected Joy as put forth by Trojan.

Yi is capturing a "moment" of energy. This is my thought anyway.

If i get only one moving line I consider such a strong factor I don't much consider the relating hexagram. When many lines are movng one can almost perceive, at least i do, that they move in order to give you the relating hexagram and indeed interpreting the sentence the two hexagrams make together can give far more guidance than focusing intenly on each line

Can there be additional conclusions drawn about a situation based on the number of changing lines? (By the way, I am sure that this is addressed by the more informed, but I am a newbie!). Is Yi saying

  1. That there is one clear answer
  2. That this is the dominant answer for duration
  3. That the querent has clarity already, so is getting a clear reply
  4. That there is a very focused question that, therefore, gains a very direct reply
  5. That the other energies which exist are unimportant/non-existent
  6. That one changing line gets Yi the reply of the resulting hexagram which is more key to Yi


Understanding single line changing by observing MULTIPLE LINES and this what Trojan has written above:

  1. Multiple changes to denote an evolution of States of Being
  2. Multiple lines for the Yi to get to the resulting hexagram

I also have felt that in certain casts where there are multiple lines that the Yi is capturing is the evolution of states of being of the situation/person in question. Yet, in other casts, it feels more mechanical. That in order for Yi to give you the resulting Hexagram, the various


I am thinking that there are "subconscious" interpretations related to number of changing lines...What do you think?

Modest Learner
 

anemos

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  1. That there is one clear answer
  2. That this is the dominant answer for duration
  3. That the querent has clarity already, so is getting a clear reply
  4. That there is a very focused question that, therefore, gains a very direct reply
  5. That the other energies which exist are unimportant/non-existent
  6. That one changing line gets Yi the reply of the resulting hexagram which is more key to Yi

-------

  1. Multiple changes to denote an evolution of States of Being
  2. Multiple lines for the Yi to get to the resulting hexagram

-

I am thinking that there are "subconscious" interpretations related to number of changing lines...What do you think?

Modest Learner

Absolutely yes.... maybe.... absolutely no. In other words , it depends.

the way i see it, each situation is unique . an one line reading could depict a simple situation and a multiple line reading a more complex and vice versa. It depends.

its all about navigation, imo. Sometimes you get directions on the steps you could follow sometimes its how to prepare your self for the trip, sometimes you get hints about the difficulties you might find on your way. it depends.

What LiSe said earlier

I see every line, positive or negative, as advice. If you do this, then this will be the result. If you do that, then that will be the result

has been always very helpful for me, especially in one line readings. Getting one line seemingly "positive" or "negative" could lead to the wrong direction.

I tend to "play" with the both hexagrams without looking at the lines at to , to see the general meaning of the reading. sometimes my initial impression was valid, but there were times that they actually meant exactly the opposite.

I believe the more rules I set, the more labels I put , the less flexible i become.

In order to find one's place in the infinity
of being, one must be able both to separate and to unite.
Wilhelm Hex 3
 

Trojina

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So I got even more intrigued by this idea of a single changing line....and this example is particularly elegant interpretation of Unexpected Joy as put forth by Trojan.

Yi is capturing a "moment" of energy. This is my thought anyway.


Yes. I think Yis answers are generally as simple and direct as they can be though t does not appear that way to us always...and often we over complicate simple messages. At least thats what hindsight has taught me. Looking for deep psychological messages when one is presented with a pretty stark description of what happening or a straight prediction is often the egos way to self pamper...not that I have anything against the ego

Can there be additional conclusions drawn about a situation based on the number of changing lines? (By the way, I am sure that this is addressed by the more informed, but I am a newbie!). Is Yi saying

  1. That there is one clear answer
  2. That this is the dominant answer for duration
  3. That the querent has clarity already, so is getting a clear reply
  4. That there is a very focused question that, therefore, gains a very direct reply
  5. That the other energies which exist are unimportant/non-existent
  6. That one changing line gets Yi the reply of the resulting hexagram which is more key to Yi

I'm afraid i don't understand all of what you are saying. Do you mean the list above to apply to the one line answer ? The only point i could agree with if you are talking about the one line answer is the first 2 points and then with reservations. If its one line changing then yes for me I'd say its quite clear and dominant for interpretation but that isn't to say one has to totally ignore other factors since its not always easy to understand the significance of the one line. I guess its down to the individual and the nature of the question. Sometimes the 1 line just tells you what you need to know...and there just seems to need to be dwelling in depth upon the relating hexagram. For example i had a lump under my tongue, I was told it was just a blocked saliva gland nothing to worry about but it was quite big and the dentist thought it could potentially be there for years and if it annoyed me too much it could be removed. So I asked Yi about it like along the lines of how much trouble it was going to be (note no 'if' involved in the question I was wanting a plain prediction) and got 30.4 and that just answered me. How literal can it get, it flares up sudden and then dies down sudden....In such a case i really did not need to think about the relating hexagram very much. If i had had 2 moving lines I would have had to take the relating hexagram into account much more. The lump of course vanished as quickly as it had arisen, thanks Yi :)

However if I'd received 30.4 about my relationship rather than a lump under my tongue I probably would have given it a bit more thought and glanced at relating hex etc etc I rarely look at the fan yao I don't even think of it unless I am absolutely stumped.



Understanding single line changing by observing MULTIPLE LINES and this what Trojan has written above:


:confused: I don't understand that sentence so i don't think I would have written it above.


  1. Multiple changes to denote an evolution of States of Being
  2. Multiple lines for the Yi to get to the resulting hexagram

I also have felt that in certain casts where there are multiple lines that the Yi is capturing is the evolution of states of being of the situation/person in question. Yet, in other casts, it feels more mechanical. That in order for Yi to give you the resulting Hexagram, the various
I am thinking that there are "subconscious" interpretations related to number of changing lines...What do you think?

Modest Learner

Oh yes I guess you're right. I think multiple moving lines as you say can denote an actual evolution/flux of a situation or I suspect can be there as if only to get you to the relating hexagram. With 4 or 5 moving lines for example I'd certainly be looking at the sentence the two hexes make together before spending time looking at each line.


But its such an individual thing noone can really tell you how to deal with one line moving or many...and on some occasions you won't even stick to your own 'rules' because sometimes intuition plays a strong hand in how you view the significance of the lines in each answer.

One thing I do note is that on shared readings people can often get a one line very direct clear answer to a straight forward question but spend hours freaking out about the relating hexagram when theres no need as far as I can see. But each to his own, it really is down to how it works for you not what other people do. How you prefer to treat the lines evolves in your own practise over time and also changes over time so as you consult more and then look back on your answers some time after you can see how the lines were operating :D



BTW in quoting you I seem to have written my answers in bold...this has no significance other than I couldn't figure how to switch off the bold for my words without also switching it off for yours and i felt i couldn't just take your bold away...though now theres so much bold there its not very clear who is saying what
 
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rodaki

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ModestLearner I almost fell off my chair in seeing your list of questions!! :p :D

I don't mean to discount the different answers you're gonna get here or to discourage you in any way from asking them but I'd like to add a short thought you can revisit when you want to, and that is that there can not be a strict system in understanding your answers . . this doesn't work like that exactly, it's not a software you can program and expect it to run smoothly. The systems and 'tricks' and methods we occasionally have recourse to, most always will say more about their users than anything else -and often it's this that we're unknowingly after anyways (!)

In other words, applying rules and instructions is like trying to foresee exactly what the weather will be in a given time -there are ways to calculate it but they always give an approximate answer and this always will differ from being there and experiencing the weather that particular time . . many ways to answer the questions, nothing quite like discovering the answer in its unfolding . .

or at least that's what I have figured out so far :)
 

heylise

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I wasn't talking about the relating hexagram as you can clearly read in the quote of mine you used but the fan yao line in particular. I said it represented an almost reverse or mirror image of the changing line in the primary becasue I thought I had read that from Brad. I thought that was how it was useful...to cast some light on the changing line as a kind of reverse of it...he can correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think we would take the fan yao as context or future .... If you are saying the line 38.6 is the context or future then you have lost me completely.

I'm not sure theres an 'if ' in every answer . Could be I suppose or it can be a statement of 'how it is'. It could be 'this is an empty basket, this offering is insincere' rather than 'don't offer an empty basket'. I thought Yi was oft used for plain predictions like 'will it rain' these are early examples you yourself often quote. I tend to see advice less in answers than pictures of how it is

However I suppose 'don't offer an empty basket' could be said to amount to the same thing as ' insincere offerings produce nothing'
When one line changes, the fanyao is the corresponding line in the relating hexagram. For me that hexagram is the context (not future, I mentioned that only as what many people call it). The fanyao is a kind of detail of that context, maybe a bit like the context of the changing line.

I can see it as mirror, but to me that does not mean reverse. Rather complementary. But in a question the relating has a position, unlike two hexagrams you put side by side in a neutral way. One is where the action lies, the one you cast. The other is where the image is, the context. At least for me. Not for everyone.

So in my answer I saw 54.6 as what I had to "do", and 38.6 as how it "was". A situation of drawing my bow. So what I had to do was contained in the line about the empty basket. That was what I had to do better. And of course putting that bow down was a good thing as well, but not enough. The real answer was still that basket.

Sorry for answering after so many posts in between.
 

anemos

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LiSe,

Could you post here your 54.6 square if its available ?
Its an interesting take the one you mention here. I looked up for the square at your site but could found it.
 
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heylise

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When Clarity was renewed I couldn't find out anymore how to post pictures. So I will give it in words.
54.6 - 38.6
37.1 - 53.1
In my notes for the squares (or mirrors as I call them now, squares is not a sympathetic word) I have "get real, realistic"
54.6 what you do has to be real
38.6 reality is both simpler and richer than you think. Don't rely on fantasy but look at reality.
37.1 define things in a clear way, set limits. When life, goals, ideas have no borders, they can never become real.
53.1 You cannot stay away from reality because you find it dangerous or risky.
 
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modestlearner

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To all, especially to Trojan, Rodaki, and LiSe,

First thank you for your sincerity of replies. I found them very informative and helpful.

I had a good laugh because even I was writing my post with all my questions, I realized my years at academia, though passed, had arisen again with a vengeance! I remember a particularly tortured essay on "Maggie: Girl of the Streets" and overenthusiastic papers on numerous topics....I laughed at myself, and I posted it ("What the hell?" I said). I realized that I was exploring the boundaries of Yi (how big is this box anyway??)...

But truly, in that moment, you all met me there. Thank you very much.

I did want to discover whether more could be learnt about the Yi and how energy works. I think Yi is very instructive about energetics which is why I had asked about whether additional conclusions could be drawn from Yi's one line replies. So, if my question is very focused, do i get a very focused reply? If I am very clear in my thoughts, do I get a simple reply? Just exploring.... If I am in transition, do I get multiple changing lines? If I am confused, do I receive multiple lines.... ETC

So, here I guess I was exploring the issue of how much does our own states of mind influence the Yi's replies?

It is much like Tarot, I can ask the question for myself, and I get a range of cards. Someone could ask the same question on my behalf, and get a whole other set of cards. Energy?

I didn't mean to torture us all, lol, on standardizing the Yi. I got excited about what I learned from all of you... and got, well, carried away. I realize the beauty of the Yi is that it is like a dance with your inner self...

Modest Learner





Yes, Trojan, that list was to address single line Yi replies...I was interested in whether other conclusions could be drawn.
 

Trojina

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So, if my question is very focused, do i get a very focused reply? If I am very clear in my thoughts, do I get a simple reply? Just exploring.... If I am in transition, do I get multiple changing lines? If I am confused, do I receive multiple lines.... ETC
So, here I guess I was exploring the issue of how much does our own states of mind influence the Yi's replies?

It is much like Tarot, I can ask the question for myself, and I get a range of cards. Someone could ask the same question on my behalf, and get a whole other set of cards. Energy?

I didn't mean to torture us all, lol, on standardizing the Yi. I got excited about what I learned from all of you... and got, well, carried away. I realize the beauty of the Yi is that it is like a dance with your inner self...

Modest Learner




.

Not sure if you are still exploring here or recapping on the journey ;) but I don't find a correlation between a focused question and a one line answer or a confused quetion and a many lined answer. Afterall its not intrinsically better or clearer to get one line rather than 4 lines moving. Its not more desirable to get one line rather than 5 lines moving. The answer is the answer in all its glory :D One might ask avery precise question and get 5 moving lines because the situation is full of flux etc etc.
 
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modestlearner, no matter how determined or sincere I have been in concentration and intention to focus on my specific question, I've never been able to control whether the Yi is going to speak to the question or speak to me about the question, including "why are you asking that?". I try to be open to what it says about either.

Finding the exact answer means first applying it to the right question. Otherwise we can go on applying the right answer to the wrong context, and that can lead to a great deal of trouble. Getting (your question) in sync with the answer is more the matter, which means being open to receive it. I believe that if our head is on straight, we'll understand what Yi says, the same as you'd trust a good friend to hear you and give a reply. To consider Yi's reply as short, or long with many lines, is like listening to a friend. It's a pleasurable activity to hear what Yi may have to say about various things on my mind, but Yi seems to prefer the direct path to the origin of your question. Sometimes as plain as the nose on your face, sometimes more challenging to wrap ones head around, if only because it is their nature to do so. I think the Yi relates with every individual, as well as relating with the collective, and everything in-between.
 

peterg

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yes sometimes seems that the one hex contradicts the other but this may occur between the lines too. like if you get 60.1.2 Duh ? !!!!

For the time being lie low.
But when the call comes from the King (authority ), respond promptly or suffer the fate of the late man of hex. 8.
Or, dont tarry too long in the shadows , and miss the boat.
 

modestlearner

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Trojan and sooo: I loved your answer! No i am not making any value judgments between one changing line or multiple lines replies from Yi....I am simply trying to uncover the relationship between the querant and the Yi.

What happened is that after I had received replies about the resulting hexagram of a single changing line, I wondered if there was more to that. Further, without realizing it, I wanted to know how does the mind of the querent affect the Yi's reply.... what is the relationship there? Does a single line reply say something about the querent's thoughts or questions...etc....This was more based on the idea that multiple changing lines at times seem to be a function of the states of being of the querent or subject(s) involved and other times a mechanical function of the Yi getting you to the resulting hexagram.

So, I think that I have the answers about the single changing line dropping. Not sure whether the answer on the multiple lines of varying states of beings. Definitely have not heard about whether there is anything to the querent's state of mind. Is the Yi a snapshot of the current energy of the situation only or does the querent's own personal views, limitations, mindset, positivity, fears etc. affect the Yi's reply?

If one were to set up an experiment that the querent casts a question and another party casts the same question for the querent, would the response from Yi be the same? Again, I have no lengthy experience, and I am just a learner.

Though the answers to these questions seem obvious, I am sure that there are some interesting experiences/perspectives on this.

This has moved on from the original question of single line and dropping the resulting hexagram...

Thank you,
Modest Learner
 
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Trojina

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Trojan: I loved your answer! No i am not making any value judgments on Yi....I am simply trying to uncover the relationship between the querant and the Yi.

You are very right that a judgment with one line is better than one with multiple lines. You took my question and worked it backwards which was very insightful, i.e., what is the reason behind modest learner's investigation--there seems to be a value judgment on single line replies.

:confused: but i didn't say that ....where do you see me saying that ? I said the opposite, that a one line answer is not better or worse than multiple lines its just the answer. The only thing I said earlier in the thread is that with one line moving for me it takes a high priority in the meaning but that doesn't always make it a 'clearer' answer.




If there is anyone who would like to comment on how they believe the querent's own mindset about the issue they are querying affects the response of the Yi, and by this I mean, does fear of the querent influence the Yi's response? does positivity?, I would be interested in that a lot. To be more exact, if one were to set up an experiment that the querent casts a question and another party casts the same question for the querent, would the response be the same? Again, I am approaching this as if I have no experience and I am just a learner. The answer seems obvious, but I am sure that there are some interesting experiences/perspectives on this.

This has moved on from the original question of single line and dropping the resulting hexagram...

Thank you,
Modest Learner

Generally Yi will include your frame of mind in the answer. How can it not . But then the extent of that does depend on the nature of the question. A mundane question with little emotion invested may get a mundane plain answer. BUt then even a mundane question may reflect state of mind...ie I ask 'can i fix my car radiator by using this sealant' feeling that I can't I may get 47 reflecting my despondency about the possibility of fixing it myself...OR it could be literal, water drains from lake so no you can't fix it.

Heh this was an actual recent casting. I didn't know which way to take it. Was it addressing my attitude or the the state of the radiator ? So I tried to buck myself up and try the sealant, it didn't work, so I think now 47 was telling me about the state of radiator...currently in the garage being replaced :D

I feel the kinds of questions you ask are for you to discover in your journey with the Yi. I don't think one can disect 'how it works' or its relationship with our minds very easily

There is no ideal state of mind to consult Yi. I used to think one had to be calm and peaceful to get a clear answer but have found that not to be the case at all. We don't have to freeze our energy into a particular mould to consult. Its the Book of Change and we change our mood and minds constantly to so the answers are in the midst of the flux of all that

Sometimes I am suprised I get very clear answers with a fuggy feeling mind and other times I'm suprised I get a misty answer when my state of mind and question has been lucid
 
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sooo

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I've never found a corresponding relationship between the number of lines I receive and my state of mind or complexity of my question or situation. I am often surprised by an answer, including by the number of lines or lack of same. For me, the element of surprise is one of the more interesting and enjoyable features of dreams and the Yijing oracle. Since many of my readings are open questions, such as 'talk to me about this or that', my mind generally remains fluid and willing, like a raft on a river.

Ever do that when you were a kid? Where I grew up, there were creeks and such, and I built a raft to float me down a nice clear, stony creek. It was so small, I could easily jump off and walk along the creek bottom, but in my mind I was venturing out on the greatest venture ever!

That's my favorite state of mind, still, and my favorite way of approaching the Yijing. Of course, waters get deeper, and faster, and it's good to know ones limits, and then exceed them at least a bit.
 

heylise

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My experience with multiple moving lines is usually that there is a lot to do. The few times I got 6 lines moving was about things which were beyond my ability to solve - not impossible but too big for me.
No lines: this is it, it is good to see it, know it, but no need to get active.
Several lines - depends. Sometimes all lines are important, sometimes they just seem to get that relating hex for me. Like Trojan's story "25-49". Very short way to say a big lot.
 

Trojina

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My experience with multiple moving lines is usually that there is a lot to do. The few times I got 6 lines moving was about things which were beyond my ability to solve - not impossible but too big for me.
No lines: this is it, it is good to see it, know it, but no need to get active.
Several lines - depends. Sometimes all lines are important, sometimes they just seem to get that relating hex for me. Like Trojan's story "25-49". Very short way to say a big lot.

you mean 25>58 right ?

a detail polices work is never done

clear up one detail and along comes another :rolleyes:

I'm never without a dustpan and brush these days
 

modestlearner

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Trojan, APOLOGIES. I had edited my entire post and had corrected that sentence to say that there is no difference in value between single or multiple lines. I had also dropped a few sentences, etc., but apparently, my edited and corrected version did not post. (I didnt even use underscore so...)

LISE AND SOO, I am enjoying learning from all of you about your experiences, so I am going to listen rather than comment for now...don't want to stop the flows of others...

Modest Learner
 
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Trojina

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Trojan,
I had edited my entire post and had caught that error. I had also dropped a few sentences, etc., but apparently, my edited and corrected version did not post. (I didnt even use underscore so...)

Apologies.
Modest Learner

No problem :cool:
 

ginnie

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I think it interesting that you say 54.6 made you sad but then, with relief, 38.6 made you happy. But that statement gives the impression the answers are only there to make you happy rather than give you the truth.

LiSe found the truth of it. Especially since she herself knows she found the truth of it.

Often words get in the way of understanding. As when people who are very bright take to arguing points of difference. I took the 54 to mean they couldn't stop arguing, once they got started. They just got caught up in a meaningless argument. Not the end of the world.
 

ginnie

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will x return to y? in which Yi responded: 35.3>56.

Yes, all are in accord. But this could change in a flash.

"x" could change his mind suddenly.

"y" could change his mind suddenly.

Someone has to stand steady for this agreement to last.

If you are not "x" and holding steady, and if you are not "y" and holding steady, then this accord could change overnight. Especially if either of them have very changeable moods or the tendency to change their minds frequently.

That is one possible meaning of the hex 56 as the relating hexagram.

Another possible meaning is that it indicates your role as the 'seeker', one who is engaged in divination to find an answer about x and y.

I tend to see both of these and all other interpretations of that 56 as equally valid interpretations, and I personally always take into consideration the relating hexagram, as it can add something, even if it does not speak to me instantly.

If you keep I Ching notebooks and look back over your own readings, you will begin to get a better feel for the relating hexagram.

Maybe you could tell us what happened with x and y? :)
 

modestlearner

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My experience with multiple moving lines is usually that there is a lot to do. The few times I got 6 lines moving was about things which were beyond my ability to solve - not impossible but too big for me.
No lines: this is it, it is good to see it, know it, but no need to get active.
Several lines - depends. Sometimes all lines are important, sometimes they just seem to get that relating hex for me. Like Trojan's story "25-49". Very short way to say a big lot.

I like this summation A LOT. It makes a lot of sense to me. What I like about it is that it suggests that 1) things are actually doable 2) it gives the querent that feeling of emotional detachment from the Yi's reply necessary to see clearly.

HeyliSe, can you comment on this idea of a feeling that i get at times of a more mechanical purpose of the multiple changing lines was only the Yi getting the query to the resulting hexagram?

And how do you feel about the state of mind of the querent and its influence?

Modest Learner
 
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modestlearner

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Yes, all are in accord. But this could change in a flash.

"x" could change his mind suddenly.

"y" could change his mind suddenly.

Someone has to stand steady for this agreement to last.

That is one possible meaning of the hex 56 as the relating hexagram.

I like this!


Maybe you could tell us what happened with x and y? :)

ACTUAL QUERY about the 35.3>36

You also asked about the actual outcome of this...it is...wait for it... is in "PROGRESS (35)" lol.

This is a case of an Indian couple who are being kept separated because they are of different castes. It is the boy's family that has objections. His family has, it seems, forbidden him to have contact with her, though there connection ultimately is very strong. She has heard through the grapevine that he is rejecting all arranged marriage proposals that come for him, and he is seen in his community as rebelling against the family. As a side note, both of them are quite strong individuals and have both stood outside the culture in a number of ways which is why they are quite strong in their attraction to the other.

The query was how was x feeling about the situation or the girl y. This was chosen because marriage is a highly charged EMOTIONAL issue. And emotions tend to play a large role, though tradition ordinarily wins out.

I wondered if 56 was appropriate as "outsider?"

What do you think?


Another possible meaning is that it indicates your role as the 'seeker', one who is engaged in divination to find an answer about x and y.

If you keep I Ching notebooks and look back over your own readings, you will begin to get a better feel for the relating hexagram.

Ginnie, I am actually going to pose this as a new question for the board because I am very interested in doing this, but would love to hear how others keep their journals. I am finding that my way of doing it a bit cumbersome.

Modest Learner
 

modestlearner

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an example of a reading i got recently with one changing line.

I was worried about a family member that couldn't find them on phone. I asked Yi " what is going on with them ?" and got 2.6>23. It didn't make any sense !!! After some time, late in the day, they appeared and gave me the answer I couldn't figure out. The were at their summer house cleaning the place from the weeds .

:mischief: This supports your idea not to throw a single part of the story out!

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modestlearner

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i have just tried this eclectic energies digital casting? is it approved of?
i have been using i ching online and i ching on love by ifate
also interpretations on www.answercult
if anyone feels i err doing this then please let me know thx

I have tried the ifate ones...i have the same feeling about it that i feel about eclecticenergies...which is I feel that the power of understanding of interpreting the Yi for myself has been taken from my hands. I must admit, there are times when I have liked that.

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heylise

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HeyliSe, can you comment on this idea of a feeling that i get at times of a more mechanical purpose of the multiple changing lines was only the Yi getting the query to the resulting hexagram?

And how do you feel about the state of mind of the querent and its influence?
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I think there is a direction you can follow in order to find your understanding of the answer. Which direction is not clear… like in reality, you go to that mountain over there, but where to cross the plain? Where can you get past the river of confusion, how to avoid the brambles, is there anywhere a road. Part of figuring out the answer is deciding to turn left or right, to go now or postpone it to a moment of more mental clarity – like eg sleeping over it often helps – and so on. Part of being a good pathfinder is being a good searcher and guesser. Not just the one who happens to know the road. Very often the process of finding that path is the biggest gift of your answer. You learn something which you don't learn easily in practical and busy daily life.

Sometimes you go to the first opening which seems to let you through, from there to the next, and so on. Other times you suddenly see where it goes in one easy sweep right to the mountain. There is no fixed rule for it. Your own inclination makes one way happen a bit more often than the other. Some seem to have wings, others are more like centipedes, step step step step step step step.

So yes, I think the querent and his/her mind have a big influence. Both on the answer itself and on the way to deal with it.

The influence on the answer itself is something I learned very slowly through the years. I could not imagine that it was possible to throw something which was the precise answer to that specific question. Maybe in a very vague way, like clearsightedness, lots of people who claim they 'see', but only very few and not very clear results. So yes, it is possible, but on a regular base???
But it happened too often, too clear, too spot-on. Not just connecting question and answer but very clearly connecting state of mind, level of understanding, the real question behind the words with the answer.
 

ginnie

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Their Lives Are On Hold

The query was how was x feeling about the situation or the girl y....I wondered if 56 was appropriate as "outsider?"

Part of the text says:
The superior person is prudent and precise in punishment
And does not lengthen the period of imprisonment.

My guess is, from what you said, that the two are intensely attracted to each other and are in fact imprisoned by their love. They are willing to risk everything to become a married couple. But in the meantime, their lives are on hold because the husband's family does not approve. That is how they are imprisoned in an in-between state, and Mr. X is hoping that his period of imprisonment will not go on much longer.

With hex 56, there is always the possibility we shall do something careless or step out-of-line -- and find we have lost all security. A person in the in-between 56 state must be very cautious and never forget his true position.

Another meaning of 56 could be that you personally are only temporarily interested in the question of x and y. You are making this inquiry more to learn how to use the I Ching.

Have you taken Hilary's course? I believe she would cover a lot of your questions ...
 

modestlearner

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Ginnie,

Thank you for that reading of the hexagrams. You have described them perfectly as expressed to me. This is a fairly common experience in this part of the world...and I have had my own experience of it.

I have searched for the text you quoted in the hexagrams, but have not found it.

I have not taken Hilary's course in full yet. I have studied it along with casts that I have done and researched the hexagram search. I find this is a better teacher for me as I get a larger perspective, though I do enjoy Hilary's course. Reading others' post has proved most valuable in gaining understanding. I hope it is not too wearying for the more advanced students; I have realized that when I am an advanced student or even a teacher, I get refreshed by the beginners and get to look anew on things that I thought were solved. Hopefully, there is something like that happening here for some. I do attempt to give back what I receive. Finally, because of where I am located, I don't have access to many of the books, etc., that are available. So the people here participating on this board and the Internet are my teachers.

Thanks for your time.

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modestlearner

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HeyLiSe,

Like the imagery and prose for the discovering of the Yi and the journey of the Yi's reply. Should be included in an introduction to a book on Yi.

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modestlearner

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I have been waiting for a reply from Yi that had multiple changing lines that may be mechanical, i.e., the Yi replying with many changing lines to get from one hex to a certain other hex. Earlier LiSe that she took multiple changing lines as indicating "a lot to do" which I liked very much. How would you read this:

Does x love y:

61. 2.4.5.6>51

Brief background: Same couple who are currently cited due to parents of the male who want him to marry someone from the same culture. He is "x." "Y" is the girl he would have/would like to marry.

Is this a good example of the Yi replying to get from one hexagram (61) to the next (51)?

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