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lightofdarkness

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Frank, an aside:

The 15/16 reflects more a summing of the individual qualities to give the consequence in their summing in 62 rather than a temporal element of one first, then the other. This is the 'wave' form of interpretation where hexagrams with multiple yang lines are superpositions of those hexagrams with one basic yang line meanings. This is covered in:

http://members.iimetro.com.au/~lofting/myweb/WaveInterpret.html

Hexagram 62 covers issues of unconditional loyalty (56 being conditional). It covers the recognition of possible 'collapse' of a collective, gone past its use-by date or is going through a recession/depression etc, and attempts to delay/deal-with such an event by appeals to the loyalty of the members of the collective.

The methodology is through keeping words close to the facts, no 'false' highs or lows (and so the 15 element with a focus on developing trust in another/others out of a context of being 'blocked', blocking, stopped, stopping etc - this block focus on mountain contains the seed for developing quality control - discernment).


Given 15 we add the use of foresight to see what is coming (and so a focus on the future) and to plan for dealing with that event enthusiastically (16 focuses on a base of devotion to 'something' with awareness in the top position)

62 utilises the overplaying of traditions that are the foundations of the collective in the past bring out a sense of loyalty, of enthusiasm in devotion to the collective for the future. We stick to the well-known traditions, no extremes, but 'enthuse' them, act them out, exaggerate their core meanings, to make them obvious and so bring out the dependencies on social structure etc (the trick here is balance where 16 wants enthusiasm and 15 wants to level things out and so your comment covering a sense of being enthusiastically 'down to earth') - thus 'staying low in the nest' reflects the using of existing protection ('traditions' etc) - being loyal to that tradition ('nest') ensures one is protected from the real or imagined.

Chris.
 

lightofdarkness

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Just to cover the 'bit' representation rather than the 'wave' representation of lines, we need to focus on the inclusive OR operator of logic. What this does is show the result of 'summing' two or more hexagrams by analogy with some other hexagram.

Using the focus on hexagrams 15 and 16, the 'sum' is 62. This is NOT an "AND" operation since AND-ing 15 and 16 gives:

001000
000100
------ AND
000000

The focus of AND is on sameness in BOTH.

We could use XOR (one or the other but not both) to give:

001000
000100
------ XOR
001100 - that works

We can use IOR (one or the other or both):

001000
000100
------
001100 - and so does that

We not there is no apparent difference here between XOR and IOR. However we know that for some relationship to be consistent so the relationship of two WHOLES must also be manifest in the relationship of their PARTS. In previous work I have identified getting the spectrum of a hexagram using the XOR operation. Lets use 27-ness as an example. The 27-ness of 15 is 101001. The 27-ness of 16 is 100101. The 27-ness of 62 is 101101. So we need to derive the 27-ness of 62 from the sum of the 27-ness of 15 and 16, so lets apply the operators:

101001 (27-ness of 15)
100101 (27-ness of 16)
------ (XOR)
001100 (wrong, we want the 27-ness of this)

101001
100101
------ (AND)
100001 (wrong)

101001
100101
------ (IOR)
101101 (RIGHT - this is the 27-ness of 62))


SO ... the correct methodology in 'summing' hexagrams is the use of the IOR operator where we sum all of the yang lines across the hexagrams ( and so the notion of one or the other or both)

The overall idea is to express in I Ching terms the summing of hexagrams in that the sum is in the form of another hexagram serving as a source of analogy (e.g. if we sum all of the hexagrams the result will be 01 - reflecting the 'total actualisation' of all hexagrams as the characteristics of 01.)

If we focus on the personality properties of hexagrams so there is scope for generic relational analysis (limited to a language of 64 categories - and so a possible need to move to dodecagram levels to elicit hexagrams with moving lines)

I will put the above in a different thread so it can be dicussed further there without continued distraction away from this thread.

Chris
 

frank

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Hi Chris,

Thank you for the aside. I have to read it over, but I have an idea that you actually in your own words are telling the same thing :-D! I did not see the depression in 62, but yes that can be something to... Stay in the nest as you are starting to get out of it... Transition out of a depression... Don?t go to fast as the change is big that the you scip steps in the proces... Han Boering, a Dutch I Ching author tells that 62 is also about mourning, and as we know thhe mourningprocess needs time, otherwise it will break you up later... It?s a time Zelda probably has to go trough all the way...

Thanks again Chris for your point of view.

Hug,
Frank.
 

frank

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Hi Zelda,

Now I get it... Ofcourse there is acceptance needed in a way things are going but especialy when other, harmless people, are involved. They need as much protection as you do... You do not want them to read about you, right? So why read about them... Hex. 2 is definitly acceptance here.

I could dig deeper in to this by explaining other ?helpfull? hexagrams (there are many...), but that could distract you... And before I start to sound like Chris, I appologize in advance, but there could be some new insights in these, so here I go anyway... :-D

1. The ?idea? hexagram of 2 would be 57... Subbtle Penetration... The idea behind all the waiting and acceptance is to get deeper into the solution.

2. The ?Form? hexagram, the way things looks in a more structural way is hexagram 29... Waiting while you have the idea that you walk very small and slippery paths along a mountainway... And 29 is indeed the concrete manifestion of a depression... The lines are telling ?depression on depression, although they are NOT your fault?...

3. The ?heaven? hexagram, symbolising our thoughts is Hex. 2... so although in depression you stay open to whatever comes into your path...

4. The ?human? hexagram, symbolising our emotions is hex. 12. You have the feeling that things are standing still, and it will not move any further...

5. The ?earth? hexagram, symbolising our steps we want to take is again hex.2. You know already that acceptance is the way to handle things...

and there is so much more...

6. Within the procesmodel of the I Ching, something I found after inspiration reading words about the Enneagram, 2 is about ?Forming Interaction?... But interaction as a waiting member and not someone who takes the innitiative.

7. The ?Yuan? of 2 is in 11... You had a peacefull time before all this...

8. The ?Heng? of 2 is 2... You have to be led now.... (as you already know :-D)

9. The ?Li? of 2 is 12... There will still be some standstill in the near future. (but that is more in to the emotions then in other things, as we have seen above)

10. The ?Zhen? of 2 is 1... By accepting things you handle already...

I apologize again for taking Zelda?s space here, and her tread, for letting people know that I ?know? things as well, but I do also respect the questions people ask before throwing all the knowledge on someones lap... I know I?m not babbling... But I have respect as well...

?He who babbles does not know...
He who know does not babble?
LAO ZI...

There is the star of Tian Liang in my Chinese Horoscope with the Destinyhouse... People with that star within there Destiny house know more then they will ever tell...

And NOW am babbling, because I do not know anything...

Hang in there Zelda!

Hug,
Frank
 

lightofdarkness

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Frank -

(1) mourning is involved with ritual and so traditions - so ANY ritual/tradition is covered in 62 where one exploits the knowledge of those rituals to maintain/extend loyalty past the use-by/best-before date of a collective.

(2) I dont see any 'idea' element associating 57 with 02. From the self-referencing perspective, getting the IC to describe itself, the 57-ness of 02 is 57 in that the pool of potentials (02) will always reflect a particular actual. IOW all hexagrams XOR-ed with 02 will generate themselves as the analogy covering the X-ness of a hexagram. - thus 57 covers issues of cultivation, to bring to fruition - a general element of Wind (and so such hexagrams as 18 that covers issues of corruption (rotting, neglect) that are part of the cultivation element.) - IOW there is scope for the *cultivation* of an idea (the transforming from raw to refined as covered in the wind-based 50)

29 covers more issues of containment/control from a sociological position and so 02, as a pool of potentials, will 'reflect' 29-ness as 29.

Is there an element of 'form' there? sort of in that social constrainted focus on 'guiding' the individual (e.g. the socialisation of the young as expressed in the water-based hexagram of 04) - but this is expressed emotionally through issues with rejection. (In five phase this area (WATER) of consumption (internal distribution) is 'controlled' by filtration and so rules about what goes 'in' vs what we reject such that the 'form' is focused on what is allowed in etc.

Then you have:

"The ?human? hexagram, symbolising our emotions is hex. 12. You have the feeling that things are standing still, and it will not move any further..."

Hmmmm - IMHO your missing a LOT here - too biased to exploiting the limited 'traditional', Wilhelm, translation. What is feeling limited is the "book of changes" in that IT considers this hexagram a representation of a limitation - the focus in 12 is on neutralising and so sticking to one's faith/belief/relationship despite the attacks of others focused on changing that faith etc.

Our emotions are covered by ALL hexagrams of the IC, not just this one. This one emotionally represents anger operating in a context of fear where fear makes us seek protection in numbers and so devotion to another/other that we will then fight for to retain that 'stability' over 'change'. Issues then come when we insist on keeping the position after it obviously has become 'unstable'. (and so the encoding of both positive and negative in the one hexagram where CONTEXT will decide on the 'colour')

etc etc

Chris.
 
J

jesed

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Hi Zelda

Your question was:
"Have I done enough within my appeal to get the information I want?"

In the way I see it, the answer is somethinh?g like: hex 2: "it is not in your hands; is beyond your action"; hex 62: do not have high expectatives on your own action.

Not necessarly that you won't get the information; just that you have little or non power at all to act.

Best wishes
 

frank

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Hi Chris,

Jippie, glad I can say for once... YOU don?t get the signal, Chris :-D!

And ofcourse 12 is a lot more then I wrote here...

Huggie,
Frank
 

zeldiac

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Frank, Roaslie, Jesed, Chris - you're amazing people. So much information and opinion expressed from you all. I remain very much the amateur when I read all you write on this subject. But as always, I thank you for your insight. I'm 'hanging in there' - best wishes to all.

Zelda
 

zeldiac

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A brief update on this long running stalking issue.

Today I heard from my advisors. The written information I requested has once more been refused. I find this frustrating. Especially as the stalking continues unabated whilst the information is withheld.

The best I can hope for - according to my advisors - is to try one more appeal... I am told that it could have an 80% success chance. But how this calculation has been reached beats me! When I get my head around all of this, I will formulate an appropriate enquiry of the Yi.

Best wishes to you all - I hope you are all having peaceful lives
Z
 

zeldiac

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Hello again everyone who looks at this posting.

Great news! The written information I needed so much has finally come through. I'm delighted and relieved. This means that using proper legal channels my stalker can now be stopped. Action is being taken from today.

This has been a long (and unexpected) road for me to have travelled. It has also been a long friends area thread! Thank you for having supported and helped me through this journey.

Having re-read some of the thread postings again, I note the accuracy of your interpretations. Typically the most recent postings gave me the will to continue 'hanging in there'. They also made me realise that a major problem for me to handle throughout was that my destiny was being formatted by others. Against my will. The stalker had affected everything I did every day. The officials to whom I continued appealing for help affected whether the stalker would be stopped. Now I have this great feeling of liberation.

Kind wishes
Zelda
 

frank

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Hi Zelda,

Great news! I hope things are going into the right direction now. I?m glad I could be of some help in the suport.

Hug,
Frank
 
J

jesed

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Dear Zelda

1.- Congratulations. I hope your life improve more and more from here


2.- With self-examination, I had re-read my opinions about this issue of getting the paper information:

a) "The paper would arrive, after several obstacles" (Feb 18, 2006) THE PAPER DID ARRIVE AFTER SEVERAL OBSTACLES)

b) "According with traditional teachings, the paper would arrive, no later than March 17, 2006" (Feb 18, 2006) THE PAPER DID ARRIVE, BUT LATER THAN MARCH 17

c) "The paper would arrive, mos probably in day tiger or snake" (Feb 18, 2006) MAY I ASK YOU THE DAY WHEN YOU GOT THE PAPER?

d) "ICPLUS can't do something traditional I Ching can": "to predict the fall of particular lotto balls at a certain date/time" in Chris' words (Feb 20, 2006) EACH ONE CAN DERIVATE IT'S OWNS CONCLUSIONS FROM THIS PRACTICAL EXPERIMENT

e) Reminding "It seems that the letter will arrive, after several obstacles" (March 01, 2006) THE LATTER DID ARRIVE AFTER SEVERAL OBSTACLES

f) "Not necessarly that you won't get the information; just that you have little or non power at all to act" (March 9, 2006) SEEMS THAT YOUR CONCLUSION IS EXACTLY THIS.

This outcome, reinforce my idea about I Ching: a) seems it is useful to "predict" future outcomes; b) in questions more like "predictions," mathematical method seems more accurate

And of course, this outcome didn't "raise BIG issues that would threaten your faith" (Chris' words)

Best wishes
 
W

white_dog

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Zelda, good news. Thanks for reporting back. Was curious how it was developing.

Patience and preparedness make a great team. I wouldn't lose either.

Bruce
 

zeldiac

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Thanks for your responses to my update. I can't stop smiling because I'm happy!

Jesed to clarify dates as you asked. I received phone confirmation on 26th April that the letter had been typed on that date. It was posted to me on that date. It reached me the following day 27th April. Hope that helps regarding the 'tiger / snake' scenario.

Best wishes
Zelda
 

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